James Ward-Prowse

[Matthew Le God]

3 minutes ago, MarkSFC said:

You've answered you're own question. You need to accept that you are wrong sometimes and not go down dead ends.

Their trophies hauls make them a bigger club historically. No debate. Fact. And you apparently love fact. 

That doesn't answer the question at all! The question was...

 How does them winning the European cup for example 39 years ago in 1982 have any bearing on football in the 2021/22 season?

Edited 3 July, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[MarkSFC]

8 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

That doesn't answer the question at all! The question was...

 How does them winning the European cup for example 39 years ago in 1982 have any bearing on football in the 2021/22 season?

 You are again confusing or mixing up team with club. As I defined Club wise they are bigger. Team wise they are also better based on last season. For the 10 odd years before we had the better team. 

 

You need to read everything people write and not just the bits that suit your viewpoint. 

 

Edited 3 July, 2021 by MarkSFC

[Saint Garrett]

Of course they’re a bigger club than us, and have more history. 
I’m also pretty sure they’re a better side than us right now, have more ambition, and can pay way more money.

Not really sure why you’re trying to not understand that MLG

Whether that’s enough to make him leave, only time will tell. I’m sure Saints will make it very difficult for him to leave, and I’m not even sure they want him. 

[Matthew Le God]

3 minutes ago, MarkSFC said:

 You are again confusing or mixing up team with club. As I defined Club wise they are bigger. Team wise they also are based on last season. For the 10 odd years before we had the better team. 

 

You need to read everything people write and not just the bits that suit your viewpoint. 

 

I haven't confused it. I asked you a question, you still haven't answered.

[Matthew Le God]

1 minute ago, Saint Garrett said:

Of course they’re a bigger club than us, and have more history. 
I’m also pretty sure they’re a better side than us right now, have more ambition, and can pay way more money.

Not really sure why you’re trying to not understand that MLG

You appear to think I've said something I haven't said!

[MarkSFC]

Just now, Matthew Le God said:

I haven't confused it. I asked you a question, you still haven't answered.

You have asked a question for which there is not an answer because comparing an historical event with what might happen in a future time period is ridiculous. 

Ask a better question and you might be able to demand an answer. 

[Matthew Le God]

3 minutes ago, MarkSFC said:

You have asked a question for which there is not an answer because comparing an historical event with what might happen in a future time period is ridiculous. 

Ask a better question and you might be able to demand an answer. 

You said... 'Their trophies hauls make them a bigger club historically. No debate. Fact. And you apparently love fact.'

So I asked my question to make a point that 'bigger club' definitions based on historical events 39 years ago are meaningless in regards to what happens in the new 2021/22 season. So it is an entirely relevant questions, used to highlight the flaw in your statement.

Edited 3 July, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

All this talk about  "JWP would be stupid to go there" - he absolutely will want to go if he gets more wedge. Wouldn't any of us go to a new job if offered a significant payrise? Wouldn't it be stupid to say "He works at Tesco, there's no way he will be interested in going to Sainsburys"? If he is getting more wedge, he's going to go.

More money + being sold the story of the ambitions Villa have (whereas Saints appear to have little ambition) + potential chance to play with higher profile players and get a place in the england squad - all solid reasons to go to villa

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

You said... 'Their trophies hauls make them a bigger club historically. No debate. Fact. And you apparently love fact.'

So I asked my question to make a point that 'bigger club' definitions based on historical events 39 years ago are meaningless in regards to what happens in the new 2021/22 season. So it is an entirely relevant questions, used to highlight the flaw in your statement.

Bore off mate

[Matthew Le God]

Just now, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

Bore off mate

I'm not your 'mate' and if you don't want to see my posts then put me on mute and stop complaining. 

[MarkSFC]

4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

You said... 'Their trophies hauls make them a bigger club historically. No debate. Fact. And you apparently love fact.'

So I asked my question to make a point that 'bigger club' definitions based on historical events 39 years ago are meaningless in regards to what happens in the new 2021/22 season. So it is an entirely relevant questions, used to highlight the flaw in your statement.

But that's the points of why your question is stupid/flawed. History has zero bearing on performance now or in the future. But that was not the prerequisite of why Villa are seen as the bigger club and it is also why I made the point that the historical performance and therefore reputation will define how big clubs are seen in general. The performance of the team last season or in the moment defines current playing status and will have an impact on the "bigness" (I realise nor a great word) of the club in future. 

[Matthew Le God]

19 minutes ago, MarkSFC said:

But that's the points of why your question is stupid/flawed. History has zero bearing on performance now or in the future. But that was not the prerequisite of why Villa are seen as the bigger club and it is also why I made the point that the historical performance and therefore reputation will define how big clubs are seen in general. The performance of the team last season or in the moment defines current playing status and will have an impact on the "bigness" (I realise nor a great word) of the club in future. 

You have seemingly missed the point of the question. It was a question to highlight the irrelevance of a 'bigness' debate to modern football for the 2021/22 season. 

Edited 3 July, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[FarehamSaintJames]

This escalated quickly 👀

[Lord Duckhunter]

I’ll be giving it large down the boozer tonight. Telling my cronies how we’re as big as Liverpool, Utd, Chelsea. When they laugh at me I’ll just give it the old , “how do historical records have any bearing on the 2021/22 season”. That’ll shut them up, 

Edited 3 July, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

 How about Duckie's references to JWP being a "son in law" ? God knows why this is an insult but in Duckie's weird world it is definitely disparaging. 

It was Roy Keane who called Arsenal a team of Son in laws. Blokes you’d like your daughter to marry, but wouldn’t want next to you in the trenches. Remind you of anyone? 

Edited 3 July, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[Antrimsaint]

9 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I’ll be giving it large down the boozer tonight. Telling my cronies how we’re as big as Liverpool, Utd, Chelsea. When they laugh at me I’ll just give it the old , “how do historical records have any bearing on the 2021/22 season”. That’ll shut them up, 

Strange , strange woman. 

[Chapel End]

27 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I’ll be giving it large down the boozer tonight. Telling my cronies how we’re as big as Liverpool, Utd, Chelsea. When they laugh at me I’ll just give it the old , “how do historical records have any bearing on the 2021/22 season”. That’ll shut them up, 

I suspect they will do anything to get you to shut up

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

29 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It was Roy Keane who called Arsenal a team of Son in laws. Blokes you’d like your daughter to marry, but wouldn’t want next to you in the trenches. Remind you of anyone? 

it was souness but i do get your point

[Matthew Le God]

42 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It was Roy Keane who called Arsenal a team of Son in laws. Blokes you’d like your daughter to marry, but wouldn’t want next to you in the trenches. Remind you of anyone? 

Lucky for Arsenal that a football game isn't a WWI battle and the same skills aren't required! 😉

It is puzzling why you think Ward-Prowse isn't aggressive, have you not seen him play in the last 3 seasons? He is aggressive, hard tackling and winds up opponents.

Edited 3 July, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[Disco Stu]

Agree with MLG. Recent success obviously trumps historic success. Clubs such as Villa, Everton and Leeds are clearly more successful and bigger clubs but I doubt players are dreaming of playing for them anymore. All of them regressed in a big way and two of them were in the second division very recently. Leicester City would beat all these clubs to signings despite being less successful and less 'big'.

Players will be more concerned with recent success, salary and their future prospects.

Remember all these players were born and grew up watching football probably from the late 90's onwards. Players that join us don't care we won a cup in '76. They will however care that we've been established in the Premier league for a decade, promote the development of youth, and are very open to letting them leave for better things. This is, I suspect, why we beat Leeds to Perraud.

That is not to say Villa aren't a more attractive club at the moment but to highlight that none of their players care what they won in the 80's.

Edited 3 July, 2021 by Disco Stu

[TWar]

I think players wanting to go to a bigger club is overstated somewhat. Players might want to play in bigger tournaments (going to a UCL/Europa side) or want to avoid dropping down (not joining likely relegation candidates) but between that it's all much of muchness, a mid table side is a mid table side. Beyond that its just about wages. Villa aren't in Europe and they probably won't be any time soon as they have one amazing player, a couple of decent players, and then a squad of mediocre players who would likely have gotten relegated a couple of years back if goal line tech hadn't had a one in 10,000 likelihood glitch. 

Bookies have us at 9/2 to go down and Villa at 11/2, it's much of muchness on that front as well. To be honest, they aren't a quality side side like Everton or Leicester. They have spent a bit because they still have a very cheap wage bill from the championship, but that also comes with a pretty poor squad. Grealish carries them and is far far too good for them, he goes in the summer and I think their relegation chances go a lot higher than ours regardless of whether they reinvest it.

Edited 3 July, 2021 by TWar

[Piran]

Could this be one of the most boring threads ever on TSW? 'Interest in JWP' - haven't got a clue personally....

[SKD]

3 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

You have seemingly missed the point of the question. It was a question to highlight the irrelevance of a 'bigness' debate to modern football for the 2021/22 season. 

But it’s not irrelevant, is it. Historical success increases fan base (at the time) which in turn increases Dan demand / stadium size and then commercial revenue. 
 

For example, if the Arabs pull out of city and in 20 years time there down the bottom of the table, this success would have increased club size and fan base. 
 

Villa are much bigger than us in just about every single capacity. 

[Tamesaint]

5 hours ago, SKD said:

But it’s not irrelevant, is it. Historical success increases fan base (at the time) which in turn increases Dan demand / stadium size and then commercial revenue. 
 

For example, if the Arabs pull out of city and in 20 years time there down the bottom of the table, this success would have increased club size and fan base. 
 

Villa are much bigger than us in just about every single capacity. 

Villa are "much bigger than us ." Bollox. Aren't  you the guy who a couple of months ago  reckoned that Pompey were better than us? Weirdo. 

Lets not forget that if VAR had worked properly, when they played Sheff Utd 12 months ago, Villa would have been relegated last season. 

[SKD]

12 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

Villa are "much bigger than us ." Bollox. Aren't  you the guy who a couple of months ago  reckoned that Pompey were better than us? Weirdo. 

Lets not forget that if VAR had worked properly, when they played Sheff Utd 12 months ago, Villa would have been relegated last season. 

Not quite what was said, I was talking about ownership, but nice try. 
 

Villa in the championship would still be bigger than us. I wish it wasn’t the case, but it is. 

[Harry_SFC]

I have it on pretty good authority that JWP is keen on going to Villa and his agent has been in contact with them regarding a move. I've never been ITK before but this has come from a source that is close to his family.

Whether they will stump up the cash for him is another matter I guess. 

Edited 4 July, 2021 by Harry_SFC

[SuperSAINT]

14 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

I have it on pretty good authority that JWP is keen on going to Villa and his agent has been in contact with them regarding a move. I've never been ITK before but this has come from a source that is close to his family.

Whether they will stump up the cash for him is another matter I guess. 

#ITK_Watch

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Happily I think JWP is professional enough that we could make him stay and he would still perform. He has a long contract and I'm not convinced Villa will pay the £50m+ we'd need to sell.

[Harry_SFC]

2 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Happily I think JWP is professional enough that we could make him stay and he would still perform. He has a long contract and I'm not convinced Villa will pay the £50m+ we'd need to sell.

I think it very much depends on what happens with Grealish. I don't think JWP would hand in a transfer request, however it seems like he does see them as a step up. No doubt that's in terms of their ambition as well as the wages they are prepared to offer. 

It's sad but shows where we are as a club under the current owner. 

[Antrimsaint]

On 03/07/2021 at 13:05, Lord Duckhunter said:

I’ll be giving it large down the boozer tonight. Telling my cronies how we’re as big as Liverpool, Utd, Chelsea. When they laugh at me I’ll just give it the old , “how do historical records have any bearing on the 2021/22 season”. That’ll shut them up, 

I don’t think you went down the “boozer” at all. You don’t have cronies. You have gawping Zoo visitors who laugh at the Monkey who throws shit at the window.

[HarvSFC]

It would be worrying if our captain was angling for a move to Villa.

[Turkish]

12 minutes ago, HarvSFC said:

It would be worrying if our captain was angling for a move to Villa.

I’m not worried and nor should you be. Players leave. 

[Dusic]

Will find out soon enough as if there is interest from both sides then a firm bid will surely follow.

Not unexpected though, he has been consistently good for 2 years and we have a long history of selling at the first signs of sizeable cash.

For that reason, if the cash is right we will sell again as we cannog compete financially on fees or wages with Villa and JWP of course knows this.

I mean, its a nice thing to stay at one club all your career but surely he must have an interest in trying to better himself, and an eye on the WC squad too. 

[Cartman]

Villa 😂

At least the other no-marks were the first to have dugouts 😂

[Saint Fan CaM]

1 hour ago, HarvSFC said:

It would be worrying if our captain was angling for a move to Villa.

If that’s truly the mark of JWP’s ambition then we’re better off without him and taking the money to re-invest. He’s stepped up his game sure, but he’s not indispensable.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

9 hours ago, HarvSFC said:

It would be worrying if our captain was angling for a move to Villa.

If I was him I'd be interested in the move just for a change of scene as much as anything. Not everyone wants to spend their whole life working in the same place for the same company. Add to that the fact that Villa probably are a step up at the moment

[MarkSFC]

7 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

If that’s truly the mark of JWP’s ambition then we’re better off without him and taking the money to re-invest. He’s stepped up his game sure, but he’s not indispensable.

Totally this. I like him. I think he's brilliant with a dead ball, obviously, but take that out and he's an average PL midfielder. By average I do not mean poor, I mean that he's not any better than most.

If we can get 50m+ I'd take it and move on. 

[VectisSaint]

36 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

If I was him I'd be interested in the move just for a change of scene as much as anything. Not everyone wants to spend their whole life working in the same place for the same company. Add to that the fact that Villa probably are a step up at the moment

Their whole life - get real, he is 26. 😳

[SKD]

9 hours ago, Antrimsaint said:

I don’t think you went down the “boozer” at all. You don’t have cronies. You have gawping Zoo visitors who laugh at the Monkey who throws shit at the window.

More unneeded insults from the ‘be kind’ brigade. 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

15 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

Their whole life - get real, he is 26. 😳

He's been at Southampton for a decade. Some people would be fine with that, and that's totally fine, but a wealthy young man in his mid-20s can be forgiven for wanting to try something different in a different place.

I'd probably be angling for a move to Italy rather than Birmingham but it's a reasonable position

[Charlie Wayman]

We need a new era at SFC, a break away from the English old-boy cohorts typified by the Ings, Bertrand, Ward Prowse love-in that must unsettle foreign players. Let him go and we may have a better team and culture for it.

[VectisSaint]

27 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

He's been at Southampton for a decade. Some people would be fine with that, and that's totally fine, but a wealthy young man in his mid-20s can be forgiven for wanting to try something different in a different place.

I'd probably be angling for a move to Italy rather than Birmingham but it's a reasonable position

He's been at Southampton a lot more than a decade. Sure, try something different, agree with you, but Birmingham, FFS. He must be getting some really bad advice if he is interested in switching to Villa (if, I don't believe it still, just local rag talk as far as I can see). 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

4 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

He's been at Southampton a lot more than a decade. Sure, try something different, agree with you, but Birmingham, FFS. He must be getting some really bad advice if he is interested in switching to Villa (if, I don't believe it still, just local rag talk as far as I can see). 

I think it's plausible that he said "yeah ok, I'm interested, let's see what they have to say". But that's a long way from forcing through a move or being upset if it doesn't happen. Ultimately he shouldn't have signed that contract if he had ambitions to leave at this point.

[ErwinK1961]

5 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I think it's plausible that he said "yeah ok, I'm interested, let's see what they have to say". But that's a long way from forcing through a move or being upset if it doesn't happen. Ultimately he shouldn't have signed that contract if he had ambitions to leave at this point.

Would suggest this is probably the situation. 

[TWar]

With Ings gone and Vestergaard almost certain to follow it would be suicide to lose JWP. We will hold on for dear life now.

[ErwinK1961]

3 minutes ago, TWar said:

With Ings gone and Vestergaard almost certain to follow it would be suicide to lose JWP. We will hold on for dear life now.

I dunno, the more I think about it the more I'd be tempted to cash in if someone offers us £50m for JWP (if Ben White can command that fee, then so can JWP). 

The squad needs surgery, it's far too stale and has been for a number of years. With the way Ralph wants to play (and rightly or wrongly, he isn't going anywhere), we need an injection of energy, pace, athleticism. 

£20m for Ings, £15m for Vestergaard, £50m for JWP - £85m to re-invest. This year more than ever, with the pandemic after effects on finances, seemingly a lot more players with 1 year left on deals, the TV deal collapsing in France, there's the potential to get some bargains or good value signings. That money could get us a GK, CB, CM, CAM, STx2 (plus maybe some loan cover). Could be a summer 2014 all over again.

Of course, it means recruitment has to be spot on and could leave us up the creek if we get it wrong. But we're heading up the creek anyway, so may as well try something to change the tide. 

[Wurzel]

Big savings on wages. Ings, Vestergard, JWP, Hoedt, Lamina, Gunn ...... Gareth Bale is coming home isn't he 😂

[TWar]

19 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

I dunno, the more I think about it the more I'd be tempted to cash in if someone offers us £50m for JWP (if Ben White can command that fee, then so can JWP). 

The squad needs surgery, it's far too stale and has been for a number of years. With the way Ralph wants to play (and rightly or wrongly, he isn't going anywhere), we need an injection of energy, pace, athleticism. 

£20m for Ings, £15m for Vestergaard, £50m for JWP - £85m to re-invest. This year more than ever, with the pandemic after effects on finances, seemingly a lot more players with 1 year left on deals, the TV deal collapsing in France, there's the potential to get some bargains or good value signings. That money could get us a GK, CB, CM, CAM, STx2 (plus maybe some loan cover). Could be a summer 2014 all over again.

Of course, it means recruitment has to be spot on and could leave us up the creek if we get it wrong. But we're heading up the creek anyway, so may as well try something to change the tide. 

I think I'd rather hold JWP, get £35m from Ings and Vesty (I suspect more, Vest should be atleast more than we paid for him). Bring in Armstrong (£15m), Danjuma (£20m), new GK (£15m), and promote Salisu to play next to Bednarek with a loan player for depth, be a net spend of about £10m when you factor in Perraud plus a bunch of smaller sales (Lemina, Elyounoussi, Forster et al.)

Edited 5 July, 2021 by TWar

[Matthew Le God]

3 minutes ago, TWar said:

 get £35m from Ings and Vesty (I suspect more, Vest should be atleast more than we paid for him).

Vestergaard only has a year left of his contract, so getting more than we paid may prove difficult. 

[MarkSFC]

3 minutes ago, TWar said:

I think I'd rather hold JWP, get £35m from Ings and Vesty (I suspect more, Vest should be atleast more than we paid for him). Bring in Armstrong (£15m), Danjuma (£20m), new GK (£15m), and promote Salisu to play next to Bednarek with a loan player for depth, be a net spend of about £10m when you factor in Perraud plus a bunch of smaller sales (Lemina, Elyounoussi, Forster et al.)

You've mentioned Danjuma a couple of times. Has there been a link I've missed or is this player just on your wishlist? 

I'd be nervous if we did not sign a first choice CB IF we sell Vestergaard. I think Salisu will become the norm on the left side. Bednarek need sto up his game I feel and Stephens worries me everything he's on the pitch (although to be fair he looked "safer" at LB!!). 

I'd love a new GK. Armstrong seems like a positive purchase. 

Selling Ings, JWP, Vestergaard and one or two others (Redmond ideally) should generate upwards of 80-90m. This plus any other funds should allow a decent mini rebuild.