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Summer Transfer Window 2023

FarehamSaintJames

By FarehamSaintJames,
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Charlie Wayman

Charlie Wayman

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, Luke SkyWalker-Peters said:

Lots of rumblings about the money that should be spent or whether it can be spent.

On whether it should be, I wrote another post detailing why I personally believe this is a conscious strategy to save money now to spend more when promoted. I believe I first got the impression of this by a comment made by Blackmore, so I assume he has had conversations on the topic with those inside Staplewood. Link here. In short, they aren't wasting transfer money on Champioship players and instead are saving in for when we are promoted.

As for whether it can be, this is a great website for football finances as it goes through all the accounts.

It sounds obvious but we have loads of money available. Yes we have been relegated, but with the parachute payments that comes to about -£50m in TV revenue lost from the previous year. Some sponsorships will drop slightly, but the TV revenue will be the main drop of income plus perhaps an extra -£10m if being extremely pessimistic.

On the books, we will be very profitable this year. Even though we spent £130m last season that cost is amortised over the duration of the contracts for the players we bought. So that would have only been an extra (approximately) £30m paid per year over 4 years had we kept all those players (I'm just averaging out at 4 year contracts here for simplicity). But the players we sold will go down as immediate income. We have brought in £150m from player sales this summer.

Factoring in that our players have taken a 40% wage reduction due to relegation clauses (as confirmed by Semmens years ago and journalists this summer) and have lost most of our highest earners. From our approximately £60m wage bill last season we will be saving approximately £24m. In terms of total personnel cost savings (including bonuses etc I expect and perhaps other staff) most relegated clubs save far more than that (Norwich saved approx £50m).

Under Gao we were almost breaking even (approx -£10m per year). Being very pessimistic, we shall say we have lost £60m in income from relegation and we are paying an extra £30m for the players we bought last summer (I'm not even going to minus the ones we already sold). That puts us at -£90m. We have saved a minimum of £24m on personnel (honestly could be double) and made £150m in sales.

Using our previous seasons as a reference then : -10-60-30+24+150.... which would make us at minimum £74m in profit for this season.

In real cash terms it will be a different story, but there are plenty of ways of deferring payments (loans+obligations to buy). Just as our outgoings are paid in instalments over 1-3 years, so are our incomings. The club might be very honest about not having large amounts of cash available to sign many players (as my previous post said - I suspect they don't want to waste money on Championship players), but they absolutely could work around that if they wanted to as they will be very profitable by the year's end.

For reference, when Fulham went down they made £12m in sales and just took the £60m loss on their accounts to go back up (having lost £100m the year before).

Anyone saying we don't have the money to spend is lying. We may not have the cash this moment, but that can be worked around. We are in an extremely healthy position.

Anyone saying we are at risk under FFP is lying. You can lose over £100m over a 3 year period while in the Premier League, we likely exceeded that last season but have more than made up for it this year. In previous Gao years we were at worst losing around £10m per year.

Sport Republic invested into the club, they don't need or intend to take that money out. I suspect they will make a profit on the £130m they spent on players last year having made almost half of it back on just one player already. I'm fairly certain I read that they also paid off our loan debt just after acquiring the club.

Please be more concise, nobody has time to read this amount of speculation.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Ralph Fastenbüttl said:

Dear god man, the sheer gall of you calling out someone for being "better off not replaying to posts" when you endlessly reply to people saying variations of the same shit over and over and over and over.

Just take the advice people are offering you mate. If you've got a point, make it once and make it well. You do not need to press the same point a dozen times. It reads like the rambling of a stroppy child and makes people dislike you.

You're a passionate fan, which is great - some good forum etiquette would go a long way, dude.

I couldn't care less what some random avatar on a football forum thinks of my posting style. I'll post what I want within the rules thanks. You'd really be better off heeding the advice I gave and not responding if its not for you. I'll continue to have conversations with those who do respond. Now much better to post this on the off topic section or get back to discussing summer transfer dealings. 

Edited by hypochondriac
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gio1saints

gio1saints

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Polaroid Saint said:

New captain……..you’ll find out on Saturday.

Latest odds on New Skipper for Saturday from Gio.com 😇

Che 11/8
Flynn : 2/1

Manning, S. Armstrong 5/2
KWP : 3/1

A. Armstrong : 9/2

W. Smallbone : 5/1

Beds : 11/2 
G Bazunu : 10/1

Sammy the Saint 1000/1 

😇

Seeing some strong pre match action for Stu Armstrong atm…😂

Beds getting some support. 

Edited by gio1saints
Bet volumes
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Saint Scott

Saint Scott

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Polaroid Saint said:

This is intriguing.

My (personal) hope is that this means RM will consider giving the armband to KWP (If he stays).

Perhaps KWP is still too quiet in "a quiet group" but it seems to me that he has all the qualities to make a good leader both on the pitch and in and around the club.

Never a classic position for a captain I guess, but would love to see it come Saturday.

Or maybe it's the final offer to Che to stay... ...the previous contact offer was for vice-captain wasn't it?!?

The athletic had already reported Che's new contact included the vice captaincy. So I guess if he is still here come Saturday it will be him but Martin keeping his cards close to his chest if he does move on 

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Dman

Dman

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Really good presser from Rusty. A summary:

New captain……..you’ll find out on Saturday.

 

It'll be Che if he's still here, which he wont be, so it'll be S.Armstrong. 

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Smirking_Saint

Smirking_Saint

Posted
Posted
47 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Thats not what I said or meant at all. Surely selling Sully would have allowed us to keep Tella. As I stated, I don't think he is the type of character to refuse to play 

He wouldn’t, we are a Championship club, we won’t be standing in the way of anybody if our values are met

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beatlesaint

beatlesaint

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

Russ confirms there's a small group who are being made to train away from the main group until they decide they want to commit to the team and contribute to what we're trying to achieve. He says he's not interested in compromising the group to accommodate those players, but they will still be treated professionally and fairly.

The more I hear from RM the more I think he’s a great appointment 

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Dman

Dman

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Smirking_Saint said:

He wouldn’t, we are a Championship club, we won’t be standing in the way of anybody if our values are met

simply put, because we lack ambition. If we had an ounce of ambition, we'd have persuaded a number of players to stick around, get us promoted and we'd be back in the PL next season (or they can leave). 

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The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, coalman said:

Let's hope he hasn't gone all Wagatha Christie on us to see who is leaking information from the training ground.

I think it’s as simple as said….Rusty previously said that Che has been offered a new contract that involves being vice captain. So if he’s still here on Saturday he’s staying and takes the armband by default. If he doesn’t stay,I can see one of the new boys taking it, likely Manning. It’ll be someone who is likely to play every game and I’m not sure if Bednarek is that even with Stephens out for a while. Could be Adarma, I suppose.

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Luke SkyWalker-Peters

Luke SkyWalker-Peters

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Jimbo said:

Granite and Tame are correct. It isn’t £150m profit, it’s £150m less the unamortised cost of the players sold.

however, the unamortised cost of the players that have been sold is pretty low, so it will be relatively high profit, just not quite £150m.

eg JWP & Tella cost is nil, Salisu is c£3m (signed for £11m 3 years ago on a 4? Yr contract). By the same logic, tino, Lavia Carrrying values will be <£15m combined.  

Yes, I missed out the step for those players.

To be clear, I was just doing a rough estimation to show how easily we are in the profit. That would now have us at £50m on the books, and I was being pessimistic with my estimated numbers.

One could very easily work out exactly where we are based on the old accounts, the known 40% drop in wages, the fees paid for players, the amortised costs and the losses experienced by other relegated teams that can all be calculated based on information here and here. But I can't be bothered to be that precise.

Just wanted to disprove the narrative that we can't buy anyone because we don't have money. We aren't buying anyone because we are choosing not to where possible.

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Smirking_Saint

Smirking_Saint

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Dman said:

simply put, because we lack ambition. If we had an ounce of ambition, we'd have persuaded a number of players to stick around, get us promoted and we'd be back in the PL next season (or they can leave). 

Yup… although every club that has ever been relegated has lost its best players its of course us that lack ambition, nail on head

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Luke SkyWalker-Peters

Luke SkyWalker-Peters

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Granite_City_Saint said:

Why do the cost of our purchases get spread over 4 years, while we get the £150 million from sales all in one go? It doesn’t make sense.

Because that's how football clubs run their books. If you want a better answer as to why, I'm sure there will be an accountant here that can tell you. I assume that when you own an asset you can spread the cost over the length of the contract, but when you sell one it has to go down as immediate income that year.

This is why Chelsea have spent £1bn in 3 transfer windows, sold around £275m worth of players but are fine under FFP (i.e won't make a £105m loss over any 3 year period). That £1bn is being spread over ridiculously long contracts whereas the sales are immediately available to offset that.

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HarvSFC

HarvSFC

Posted
Posted

Option three would be the best one. Keep Adams and add Stewart. Given Armstrong's new role in the team, he can be the third choice striker and first choice hybrid role he's playing at the moment. Mara and Onuachu don't fit the way we play, so neither should be here after deadline day and Ballard isn't considered to be ready yet, but can be fourth choice in an emergency. So, we have Adams leading the line for the next month or so, while Stewart gets up to speed from his long layoff, which is still going to take a while after he returns to training. Then you have the two battling it out for the top spot for the rest of the season. Competition is never a bad thing. I think if Adams does go then we will need Stewart + one more. I said last night the + one should probably be a loan, so that we aren't so dependant on A. Armstrong/Mara while Stewart gets fit. If Everton are so keen on Sulemana, then Tom Cannon from them wouldn't be the worst shout.

On that point, I wish there was more morality on the side of the buying clubs when they seek players who go on strike/refuse to train. What I mean by that is that they see a player who's not complying to their contract and they pull their offer with the reason that they don't want a player of that attitude within their dressing room. But, that's never going to happen now, unfortunately. The horse has bolted. 

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Dman

Dman

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Yup… although every club that has ever been relegated has lost its best players its of course us that lack ambition, nail on head

To be fair, I couldn't care less about the other relegated sides, although I do think we're currently the weakest of the lot.

I'd be interested to see if Leeds lose Gnonto & Sinisterra. 

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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, davefizzy14 said:

Like to think given our links through Wilcox, we would be in pole position.

Screenshot_20230830-142703_Samsung Internet.jpg

Forest will be in pole position because they're in the Premier League.

If we are going for Wood we won't sign another CB. 

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Dman

Dman

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Im talking ever, but obviously you know succintly different

Ahhh so the point your making is in the history of relegated clubs its not just us that lack ambition - Got you, agreed. 

Off the top of my head, a few clubs have managed to dig their feet in. Fulham kept Mitrovic, Villa kept Grealish, Bournemouth kept Solanke. The list could probably go on if I decided to look deeper. All match winners and goal scorers btw... Everything we're just letting go because we don't have a backbone to stand up. 

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Baz Fl

Baz Fl

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

What a prick. One replacement for him and Tella needed then. 

It’s players with his mentality that got us relegated in the first place, sell him ASAP. Some of last year’s squad think way to highly of their ability and RM is building a team we can like again. 

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CSA96

CSA96

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Dman said:

Ahhh so the point your making is in the history of relegated clubs its not just us that lack ambition - Got you, agreed. 

Off the top of my head, a few clubs have managed to dig their feet in. Fulham kept Mitrovic, Villa kept Grealish, Bournemouth kept Solanke. The list could probably go on if I decided to look deeper. All match winners and goal scorers btw... Everything we're just letting go because we don't have a backbone to stand up. 

He'd scored 3 goals in 27 PL games the season they went down. They also put him on a £100k+ pw contract. 

Solanke had also only scored 3 goals in 32 PL games. Grealish was a Villa fan and had barely started 20 PL games, scoring just 1 goal.

Edited by CSA96
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saintwbu

saintwbu

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Dman said:

Ahhh so the point your making is in the history of relegated clubs its not just us that lack ambition - Got you, agreed. 

Off the top of my head, a few clubs have managed to dig their feet in. Fulham kept Mitrovic, Villa kept Grealish, Bournemouth kept Solanke. The list could probably go on if I decided to look deeper. All match winners and goal scorers btw... Everything we're just letting go because we don't have a backbone to stand up. 

Don’t reckon Bournemouth could’ve given Solanke away the summer they got relegated

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Toadhall Saint

Toadhall Saint

Posted
Posted
Just now, CSA96 said:

He'd scored 3 goals in 27 PL games the season before they went down. They also put him on a £100k pw contract. 

Solanke had also only scored 3 goals in 32 PL games. Grealish was a Villa fan and had barely started 20 PL games, scoring just 1 goal.

Context always good to have context 👍

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Smirking_Saint

Smirking_Saint

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Dman said:

Ahhh so the point your making is in the history of relegated clubs its not just us that lack ambition - Got you, agreed. 

Off the top of my head, a few clubs have managed to dig their feet in. Fulham kept Mitrovic, Villa kept Grealish, Bournemouth kept Solanke. The list could probably go on if I decided to look deeper. All match winners and goal scorers btw... Everything we're just letting go because we don't have a backbone to stand up. 

Nobody wanted Mitrovic and people definitely didn’t want fucking Solanke you plank

Pretty sure Villa said they’d take 25m for Grealish

But of course you know better obviously 

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Dman

Dman

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Nobody wanted Mitrovic and people definitely didn’t want fucking Solanke you plank

Pretty sure Villa said they’d take 25m for Grealish

But of course you know better obviously 

Literally took 2 seconds to disprove this, you plank https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1109553/West-Ham-transfer-news-Aleksandar-Mitrovic-Fulham

So looks like, yeah, I might know better 😀

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AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Nobody wanted Mitrovic and people definitely didn’t want fucking Solanke you plank

Pretty sure Villa said they’d take 25m for Grealish

But of course you know better obviously 

But of course....

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11675/11466792/tottenham-will-not-make-a-further-bid-for-jack-grealish#:~:text=Spurs bid £25m for,the Sky Bet Championship side.

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sadoldgit

sadoldgit

Posted
Posted
50 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I couldn't care less what some random avatar on a football forum thinks of my posting style. I'll post what I want within the rules thanks. You'd really be better off heeding the advice I gave and not responding if its not for you. I'll continue to have conversations with those who do respond. Now much better to post this on the off topic section or get back to discussing summer transfer dealings. 

Given the number of people who seem to agree that you have been constantly over posting on the same subjects on this thread and that it is a forum for all, don’t you think it is a bit selfish not to take some advice from your fellow posters? You might not care less, but this isn’t just your forum. No one is saying that you can’t post what you want, we are saying don’t post the same point every two minutes please.

Thanks.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Given the number of people who seem to agree that you have been constantly over posting on the same subjects on this thread and that it is a forum for all, don’t you think it is a bit selfish not to take some advice from your fellow posters? You might not care less, but this isn’t just your forum. No one is saying that you can’t post what you want, we are saying don’t post the same point every two minutes please.

Thanks.

I didn't read any of that but I'm sure it was thrilling. 

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Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Imagine being that desperate to go to Everton though with the state they are in. 

I think this just highlights the issue here though: that Sully doesn't seem to care which club he's playing for as long as he is in the promised land of the PL.

He was happy to sign a nice fat contract with us in January, despite us being bottom of the table with a total basket case of a manager.

Edited by Sheaf Saint
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Killers Knee

Killers Knee

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, CSA96 said:

Russ confirms there's a small group who are being made to train away from the main group until they decide they want to commit to the team and contribute to what we're trying to achieve. He says he's not interested in compromising the group to accommodate those players, but they will still be treated professionally and fairly.

I assume this is the Lyanco golf party?

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I think this just highlights the issue here though: that Sully doesn't seem to care which club he's playing for as long as he is in the promised land of the PL.

He was happy to sign a nice fat contract with us in January, despite us being bottom of the table with a total basket case of a manager.

True. If he leaves now, I reckon he's even more of a failure than Onuachu has been. 

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