Middlesbrough 2-1 Saints - Match Thread

[Toadhall Saint]

14 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Apparently doesn't trust him. 

Where has he said that? Shocking if true and another reason for the charlatan to be booted out 

[Turkish]

5 minutes ago, egg said:

As in to follow orders? Discipline? 

He actually said he’s a young man who doesn’t speak the language, we are asking the team to play in a structured way so got to go with people you can trust. He has lost two of his best mates in the group ( Willy and Lyanco) and has had some bad news about his dad at some point he will be on the pitch and be fantastic but not the right time while the teams struggling 

I’d say it’s a a language plus personal issue thing rather than lack of trust in his ability 

[Baird of the land]

12 minutes ago, Block41 Saint said:

Martin: “We came out in the second half and had total control, we reacted really well. And then we give the goal away, Middlesbrough had nothing in the second half.” #saintsfc [bbc]

Let's ignored about the breakaway chances they had, one where Bazunu saved and another where they hit the post. Their keeper had one basic save to make the entire game. This guy is an absolute clown. 

Total control of what?

Also in what world did middlesborough do nothing in the 2nd half. Is he confusing the 2 teams. Did he think Saints were the ones in red?

[Crab Lungs]

SCAR TISSUE.

[Killers Knee]

Post Ward-Prowse and Tella there is no fight left in this team, they are the epitome of a boxer sat on his stool crying “No mas”

[derry]

That was a clusterfuck by the manager, yet again the passing around at the back cost us. Want to cure it, put a boot through any ball in our last third. It probably wasn't that Holgate was caught just before Middlesborough equalised it was that he wasn't passing back into the centre backs. He brought Manning on FFS. Every time he got the ball he turned inside and backwards and short passed back into our penalty area inviting pressure on the ball. That demonstrated his stupidity. The substitutions were bizarre and Manning and Aribo just made things worse.. Aribo doing nothing again FFS.

We play off the cuff as there is no disciplined shape. Charles needs to play a rigid defensive midfield and not roam, Smallbone and Downes need to be ditched along with the tippy tappy because that's really all they do.  S.Armstrong and Alcaraz replace them. Until Stewart is fit It's a lottery up front. Sulemana Armstrong Edozie possibly. Adams is on one of his all too regular barren runs. The back four that started looked better then the second half with Manning at left back.

[egg]

4 minutes ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

Listen to the Solent Sport Interview.

Got a link please?

[Crab Lungs]

Can we do an individual errors league table? 

[Chez]

Just now, Baird of the land said:

Total control of what?

Also in what world did middlesborough do nothing in the 2nd half. Is he confusing the 2 teams. Did he think Saints were the ones in red?

we certainly didn't look in total control when thy were four vs one when breaking from our corner.

[saintstowin]

I accept that relegated clubs won't often be confident, due to obviously being poor. But there was decent amount of optimism, the first home game had a great atmosphere and players seemed up for it, albeit the goals conceded were indicative of things to come. There wasn't much talk of the negative knock on effects of relegation then. 

However. The current lack of confidence, in my mind, has little to do with last season. Worryingly for us there is now enough of a sample size for the players to lack confidence solely based on what's happening right now and what they perceive the future to be.

[LGTL]

1 hour ago, Ralph Fastenbüttl said:

The worrying thing about today for me was that we're now losing while playing largely quite well.

I suggest you open your eyes. It could and probably should have been 4 or 5 for Boro. 

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

He actually said he’s a young man who doesn’t speak the language, we are asking the team to play in a structured way so got to go with people you can trust. He has lost two of his best mates in the group ( Willy and Lyanco) and has had some bad news about his dad at some point he will be on the pitch and be fantastic but not the right time while the teams struggling 

I’d say it’s a a language plus personal issue thing rather than lack of trust in his ability 

That puts his lack of involvement onto perspective. Thank you 👍

[Mr X]

18 minutes ago, Morse said:

Jones had nothing on his CV that suggested he could manage a Premiership club successfully, but was appointed.

Martin had nothing on his CV that suggested he could get us promoted, but was appointed. 

Anyone have any confidence SR/ Wilcox will get the next appointment right when they eventually sack Martin? 

And what about selles? 🤔😘🤫

[Chez]

Just now, derry said:

The substitutions were bizarre

The subs weren't bizarre IMO. Holgate offered us nothing, so Manning coming on made total sense. He broguht Edozie, Sullemana and Amstrong on and they all made us way better. Maybe they should have started, but the subs were correct. Aribo or Alcaraz...not sure it makes a huge difference. Alcaraz hasn't exactly lit the place up when coming off the bench in recent games.

 

 

[trousers]

 

 

[CylonKing]

Mickey Mouse league this one, so much more fun in L1. A proper football league. Can't wait to be visiting Northampton and Barnsley again. 😁

[Baird of the land]

4 minutes ago, Chez said:

The subs weren't bizarre IMO. Holgate offered us nothing, so Manning coming on made total sense. He broguht Edozie, Sullemana and Amstrong on and they all made us way better. Maybe they should have started, but the subs were correct. Aribo or Alcaraz...not sure it makes a huge difference. Alcaraz hasn't exactly lit the place up when coming off the bench in recent games.

 

 

I thought removing our striker adams and replacing him with a midfielder was very odd.

We then proceeding to try and cross the ball to our non existant target.

Edited 23 September, 2023 by Baird of the land

[Turkish]

7 minutes ago, Crab Lungs said:

Can we do an individual errors league table? 

Individual errors league, you’ll never win that 

[LGTL]

He’s as bad as Jones. Utter fucking fraud who will say anything to stay in a job. 

[SNSUN]

Top 3 in the league are storming ahead, Leeds have found their scoring boots too and then there's us, down in the bottom half having the shittiest September since Manhattan in 2001.

Martin is walking a tightrope and things must change. Fast. One win won't do it either, we need to consistently be picking up points from now until January when we can do something about it.

[spyinthesky]

1 hour ago, OldNick said:

I thought I saw that somewhere. He didnt want to leave WH and wanted to fight for his place

Downes was poor today but as someone who suffered from Campylobacter food poisoning in the past I can assure you it takes quite a while to recover fully from it and I reckon the bacteria is probably still in his system.
I will give him the benefit of the doubt on this.
Smallbone offered nothing apart from one shot on target and a myriad of backward passes.
We are so open to quick breaks are are generally pedestrian going forward.
KWP the best of the bunch as usual but yet another very disjointed performance.
I feel as low as I did under Branfoot and again when we went into admin in the Championship and got beaten regularly until the drop into League 1.
This year the change from early season optimism to the current shit show is immense and the Manager, Jason Wilcox and all must take most of the responsibility.

[Chez]

7 minutes ago, Turkish said:

He actually said he’s a young man who doesn’t speak the language, we are asking the team to play in a structured way so got to go with people you can trust. He has lost two of his best mates in the group ( Willy and Lyanco) and has had some bad news about his dad at some point he will be on the pitch and be fantastic but not the right time while the teams struggling 

I’d say it’s a a language plus personal issue thing rather than lack of trust in his ability 

Alcaraz can be a slight risk to be fair. He plays some bloody terrible passes that can leave you massively exposed. although that could be said about the whole team right now. He's can play, but equally he can go completely missing too. I don't have an issue with him not starting games at the minute, but he needs to get back in the side and thrive for us to thrive you'd think.

[OttawaSaint]

3 minutes ago, trousers said:

 

 

Alright then.

Sick of commenting on this guy and our clueless gutless team. Sick of reading about them too.

 

Gonna log off until next game. Need to do/think about something worth my time.

[redkeith]

49 minutes ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

I think THB and Charles will do fine. But agree Fraser seems to have no speed, creativity or trickery, just a willingness to graft. Holgate and Downes have both been shockingly bad. 

Charles needs a proper DM partner. Can we re-coach Aribo into being a DM shithouse?!

Well Aribo is shit already , so that is a start.

[derry]

2 minutes ago, Chez said:

Alcaraz can be a slight risk to be fair. He plays some bloody terrible passes that can leave you massively exposed. although that could be said about the whole team right now. He's can play, but equally he can go completely missing too. I don't have an issue with him not starting games at the minute, but he needs to get back in the side and thrive for us to thrive you'd think.

So play him up front.

[Chez]

1 minute ago, Baird of the land said:

I thought removing our striker adams and not replacing him with a midfielder was very odd.

We then proceeding to try and cross the ball to our non existant target.

Adams was utter shite. Moving Armstrong into the middle didn't make us worse. Didn't make us better mind. I have no issue with the subs.

 

[Chez]

Just now, derry said:

So play him up front.

Alcaraz is not a striker.

[LegalEagle]

I’d take Neil Warnock right now. That’s how bad things are. 

[Mr Saints]

Leeds and Leicester have both lost players, have new managers that have implemented new styles. What we are being served up is not fucking good enough and as fans we must make this known. We deserve so much more than this. Cunts.

[Toussaint]

14 minutes ago, Crab Lungs said:

Can we do an individual errors league table? 

I don’t think that would be a fair reflection, there are normally multiple  causal factors leading to the individual errors. 

[badgerx16]

2 minutes ago, Chez said:

Alcaraz is not a striker.

Apparently Mara is, but he doesn't get onto the pitch either.

[Baird of the land]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

Adams was utter shite. Moving Armstrong into the middle didn't make us worse. Didn't make us better mind. I have no issue with the subs.

 

Don't agree. I'd have had Mara on. We just made ourselves extra toothless. Pretty wingers with nothing in the centre for them. And Aribo didn't look bothered.

[derry]

4 minutes ago, Chez said:

Alcaraz is not a striker.

Neither is Adams and Armstrong needs a partner.

[Chez]

1 minute ago, Baird of the land said:

Don't agree. I'd have had Mara on. We just made ourselves extra toothless. Pretty wingers with nothing in the centre for them. And Aribo didn't look bothered.

Fair point. Forgot Mara was on the bench. On reflection I would have done the same. AArmstrong lacks bottle. He has lost whatever he had. He's a busted flush. 

 

[Crab Lungs]

11 minutes ago, Chez said:

Alcaraz can be a slight risk to be fair. He plays some bloody terrible passes that can leave you massively exposed. although that could be said about the whole team right now. He's can play, but equally he can go completely missing too. I don't have an issue with him not starting games at the minute, but he needs to get back in the side and thrive for us to thrive you'd think.

I’d rather that risk than the suicidal passing round the box risk. Ughhhhh had my fill already.

[Chez]

Just now, derry said:

Neither is Adams and Armstrong needs a partner.

you want to play Armstrong and Alcaraz up front?

For me, Alcaraz should play in the hole. AArmstrong just doesn't look like he has the confidence to score goals anymore. It might return, but when?

[saint michael]

He blames the performance again on circumstances that are under the team to control. If they are not then he needs to understand why in order to change it. His answer is only that they have scars and are lacking confidence, and are young. That being the case I think he is only living in hope they can get lucky to change this. As we all can see he is doing little or nothing to drive a change. He still seems reasonably happy he is on course and very calm with losing game after game in the same fashion….very weird 

[SW11_Saint]

28 minutes ago, egg said:

Got a link please?

https://x.com/solentsport/status/1705629429907472881?s=46&t=6zx5qf2H7nuEX1l3EabHng

[SaintJackoInHurworth]

Got back from the match a while ago (I live in Darlington)...

• Russell Martin is clueless.
• Ryan Fraser was hopeless and rightfully subbed off but he shouldn't have started.
• Adam Armstrong was hopeless apart from his goal and should not started or stayed on  - why does Martin hate Alcaraz? If goal hanging were allowed he would offer more. When it comes to kicking/passing a ball his only quality is in the 6 yard area. AA works hard but he is NOT a winger.
• Holgate was much better than against Sunderland (better as full back than centre back) but was partly responsible for their first goal. Taking him off at half time will have further destroyed his confidence.
• Manning was worse than Holgate defensively but offered more in an attacking sense.
• Adams is not a centre forward, he is a support striker. Since we don't play that system, we don't benefit from that.
• Shea Charles should not have been subbed off.
• One of Smallbone or Flynn Downes were superfluous in midfield until Smallbone went off - both could have been replaced rather than Charles.
• Aribo was absolutely dreadful. he fluffed almsot every single kick that he had - only two headers were any good.

In terms of positives:

• KWP was by far the best player on the pitch.
• Alcaraz would have easily been one of the best players on the pitch if we had brought him on!!! (MARTIN OUT!)
• Taylor Harwood-Bellis did some brilliant defending and has clearly got Premier League class.
• Edozie did well when he came on.
• Stu Armstrong was brilliant when he came on - but not sure why he replaced Charles instead of Flynn Downes.

SUMMARY: Russell Martin is clueless. Until he gives starts to Alcaraz and our higher quality quality wingers like Edozie, Sulemana and Amo-Ameyaw instead of crap like Fraser and Arma we are just going to fail, fail and fail again. Shea Charles needs to play as CDM eevry game and should not be subbed off unless we bring in someone else who can play in that position.

MARTIN OUT!!

[St Louis]

4 minutes ago, Chez said:

you want to play Armstrong and Alcaraz up front?

For me, Alcaraz should play in the hole. AArmstrong just doesn't look like he has the confidence to score goals anymore. It might return, but when?

You do know AArmstrong scored today, and as the only player who even looked like scoring for us? 🤔

[Baz Fl]

He mentioned scar tissue again, if it’s a problem that we fold every time we concede or something goes wrong I’d say you and Wilcox totally failed in the transfer window and shouldn’t of got in players that have no intestinal fortitude and collapse like cheap deck chairs. We’ve kept the players that contributed to our relegation and boosted the squad with weaklings, great Job 🤬

[Baird of the land]

1 minute ago, SaintJackoInHurworth said:

• One of Smallbone or Flynn Downes were superfluous in midfield until Smallbone went off - both could have been replaced rather than Charles.

Smallbone and Downes seem to be the same player, except 1 of them has hair. I really see zero logic in playing both together.

[thornhill_saints]

20 minutes ago, Chez said:

Alcaraz is not a striker.

At play him ffs

[sfc4prem]

1 minute ago, Baz Fl said:

He mentioned scar tissue again, if it’s a problem that we fold every time we concede or something goes wrong I’d say you and Wilcox totally failed in the transfer window and shouldn’t of got in players that have no intestinal fortitude and collapse like cheap deck chairs. We’ve kept the players that contributed to our relegation and boosted the squad with weaklings, great Job 🤬

The word 'weak' has come up time and time again. We're a squad full of lettuce leaves. As you rightly say, that failure sits squarely on Russell and Jason's shoulders. Fucking abysmal.

[Cabrone]

Why wait? The performances are not going to improve and every week promotion slips away.

Time to cut our losses and part ways with RM.

It was another failed experiment.

[EBS1980]

This scar tissue rubbish is an easy excuse. The issue is we don’t have a leader on the pitch. Armstrong isn’t captain material. When you concede you want your leader to rally the troops, we don’t have any of that.

Smallbone looks like he plays in 2nd gear all the time, not sure I’ve seen him break out of a jog this season. 

Adams can’t play as the solo forward, he’s better as the support forward but until Ross Stewart is fit we don’t have another option, but I don’t understand we we don’t try and play to the strengths of what we have available rather than just sticking to the 4-2-3-1 /4-3-3 system that doesn’t work with the personal we have.

[Wade Garrett]

28 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

Top 3 in the league are storming ahead, Leeds have found their scoring boots too and then there's us, down in the bottom half having the shittiest September since Manhattan in 2001.

Martin is walking a tightrope and things must change. Fast. One win won't do it either, we need to consistently be picking up points from now until January when we can do something about it.

I honestly think it’s gone beyond that.

[Baird of the land]

5 minutes ago, EBS1980 said:

This scar tissue rubbish is an easy excuse. The issue is we don’t have a leader on the pitch. Armstrong isn’t captain material. When you concede you want your leader to rally the troops, we don’t have any of that.

Smallbone looks like he plays in 2nd gear all the time, not sure I’ve seen him break out of a jog this season. 

Adams can’t play as the solo forward, he’s better as the support forward but until Ross Stewart is fit we don’t have another option, but I don’t understand we we don’t try and play to the strengths of what we have available rather than just sticking to the 4-2-3-1 /4-3-3 system that doesn’t work with the personal we have.

It is a real shame we didn't have months of an open transfer window to address that. oh wait...

[JRM]

17 minutes ago, SaintJackoInHurworth said:

Got back from the match a while ago (I live in Darlington)...

• Russell Martin is clueless.
• Ryan Fraser was hopeless and rightfully subbed off but he shouldn't have started.
• Adam Armstrong was hopeless apart from his goal and should not started or stayed on  - why does Martin hate Alcaraz? If goal hanging were allowed he would offer more. When it comes to kicking/passing a ball his only quality is in the 6 yard area. AA works hard but he is NOT a winger.
• Holgate was much better than against Sunderland (better as full back than centre back) but was partly responsible for their first goal. Taking him off at half time will have further destroyed his confidence.
• Manning was worse than Holgate defensively but offered more in an attacking sense.
• Adams is not a centre forward, he is a support striker. Since we don't play that system, we don't benefit from that.
• Shea Charles should not have been subbed off.
• One of Smallbone or Flynn Downes were superfluous in midfield until Smallbone went off - both could have been replaced rather than Charles.
• Aribo was absolutely dreadful. he fluffed almsot every single kick that he had - only two headers were any good.

In terms of positives:

• KWP was by far the best player on the pitch.
• Alcaraz would have easily been one of the best players on the pitch if we had brought him on!!! (MARTIN OUT!)
• Taylor Harwood-Bellis did some brilliant defending and has clearly got Premier League class.
• Edozie did well when he came on.
• Stu Armstrong was brilliant when he came on - but not sure why he replaced Charles instead of Flynn Downes.

SUMMARY: Russell Martin is clueless. Until he gives starts to Alcaraz and our higher quality quality wingers like Edozie, Sulemana and Amo-Ameyaw instead of crap like Fraser and Arma we are just going to fail, fail and fail again. Shea Charles needs to play as CDM eevry game and should not be subbed off unless we bring in someone else who can play in that position.

MARTIN OUT!!

I heard the away end were not too pleased at end, much abuse towards Martin or players in general? 

[Bad Wolf]

1 hour ago, Soton7 said:

I’m sure Luton were 9th in the Championship when Jones came to us. They are now in the EPL so if anything, he may have hindered their progress.

He got them from League Two to that position. Mean Adkins didn't do very well then because Poch finished higher. But then Koeman finished higher than Poch so guessing he was a failure too.