Leicester 5-0 Saints - Match Thread

[James]

3 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

That was a lesson in just how far we've come under Martin. Outclassed by a much better organised, capable side.

Absolute insistence in playing a system, where we don't have players capable of being effective in it. Leicester looked expansive, strong and capable. They were happy to use their possession effectively. We tried and failed to do what we always do, and had no answers.

We have games with effective spells, only to fail to manage them and drop points. Then there are games like this where the system fails, and we don't have anything else.

Two of our three starting midfielders out, and the one who can actually pass a ball, in Smallbone dropped so that we can play someone out of position there.

You can see, even after this time, players unable to play a natural game, but also unable to do anything within the instructions they are given.

The players who are there, haven't been coached to bring the best out of them, in the tactic. Even to perform a set role in it, would be an improvement.

RM doesn't help himself even more, by switching fullbacks. Or in playing Rothwell and Brooks from the start. Both of whom have already been shown to weaken his own system.

Add that to McCarthy who isn't as good at distributing the ball and it had disaster written all over it.

 

My question is what players would be good enough to properly implement the Martin system? The system hasn’t been properly implemented by him at MK Dons, Swansea or with us and we’ve got some of the most capable players in the championship (whether we’ve got the best side is up for debate but we are up there). For me the system is bordering on propaganda. If the system needs Man City level players then it’s not a system that’s any use to the level of club Russell Martin is likely to be managing any time soon.

[Sheaf Saint]

20 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

It is with McC in goal. Tonight showed exactly what Baz brings to the team, we looked hopeless at building any kind of attack out from that back. We needed a keeper with good distribution who can bypass their forward press and play it into the midfielders in the right places.

And yet none of Leicester's goals came as a result of poor distribution from McCarthy.

[Golactico]

Sack Martin now. Get Allardyce in, just for the play-offs, giving him the remaining league fixtures to assess the squad. Whatever happens, start afresh with a new manager next season.

Any replies saying that's a ridiculous idea, please explain why sticking with Martin is a better one?

[stknowle]

I’ve mellowed a lot in recent seasons and can generally take a pragmatic ‘oh well, it’s only a game’ view when it doesn’t go our way. But FUCKSAKE that has annoyed me tonight. 

[obelisk]

Just seen RM's interview. He's lost it.

[Lighthouse]

9 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Well, tonight sure shows how well we have managed to adapt.

 

8 minutes ago, Dman said:

It looks like we still are.

But that just goes back to my point. Without Bazunu, suddenly we look dreadful in a way we've not been since the start of the season. We can't soak up pressure, deal with a press or build threatening attacks.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Is there anyone who thinks TM will be taken to task over that performance? With Wilcox gone who the fuck does he report to anyway? The club is looking like a real shambles now. Playoffs and Prem…not sure which is the scarier!

[captainchris]

What is Martin talking about? Did he watch an entirely different match. Says he blames our attack and barely mentions defence! ‘We broke their press’ lol 

Really dreadful summary of the match..

[S-Clarke]

Just now, Golactico said:

Sack Martin now. Get Allardyce in, just for the play-offs, giving him the remaining league fixtures to assess the squad. Whatever happens, start afresh with a new manager next season.

Any replies saying that's a ridiculous idea, please explain why sticking with Martin is a better one?

Not sure what the point of that is, stupid waste of money.

We'll keep Martin and see what happens - but I think there will be a parting in the summer, not sure how he survives.

[stknowle]

1 minute ago, Sheaf Saint said:

And yet none of Leicester's goals came as a result of poor distribution from McCarthy.

This. LOL @ any notion that the genus of that debacle was Baz not being in goal.

[Viking Saint]

Watching RM's interview. What game was he watching? He sounds bereft of any idea of where to go next

[Saint_Jonny]

8 minutes ago, Golactico said:

Sack Martin now. Get Allardyce in, just for the play-offs, giving him the remaining league fixtures to assess the squad. Whatever happens, start afresh with a new manager next season.

Any replies saying that's a ridiculous idea, please explain why sticking with Martin is a better one?

Allardyce. Fuck me. Give me a break. We've got a shit load of points this season, one win off the 2012 promotion team's record. Yeah we're in fourth in an exceptional season and there are some missed opportunities. The over reaction and hate for the manager and team speaks absolute volumes about the average football fan. Thick as mince. 

Edited April 23 by Saint_Jonny

[James]

Just now, stknowle said:

This. LOL @ any notion that the genus of that debacle was Baz not being in goal.

We’ve conceded 3 or more goals on 9 occasions this season by my count. Only one of those we’ve had McCarthy in goal.

[LGTL]

RM has lost the plot. That’s a genuinely concerning interview

[woodsaint1]

"Players who fight and care will play"

Thats Jack Stephens nailed on for the remainder of the season, likely at RB too 🤦🏽‍♂️

[Holmes_and_Watson]

2 minutes ago, James said:

My question is what players would be good enough to properly implement the Martin system? The system hasn’t been properly implemented by him at MK Dons, Swansea or with us and we’ve got some of the most capable players in the championship (whether we’ve got the best side is up for debate but we are up there). For me the system is bordering on propaganda. If the system needs Man City level players then it’s not a system that’s any use to the level of club Russell Martin is likely to be managing any time soon.

Oh that's easy. The players RM watches on videos of Barcelona and Manchester City. The ones just like them, brought in on SR's policy of them being under 10, wanting a tiny wage and giving up any natural talent to retain possession, before being sold on for a profit. Those players.

[Badger]

1 minute ago, Saint_Jonny said:

Allardyce. Fuck me. Give me a break. We've got a shit load of points this season, one win off the 2012 promotion team's record. Yeah we're in fourth in an exceptional season and there are some misses opportunities. The over reaction and hate for the manager and team speaks absolute volumes about the average football fan. Thick as mince. 

Warnock for me.

I know we’ve only got two games left but with his track record there’s a good chance he’ll keep us up.

[Saint Fan CaM]

My word. If RM can’t take full responsibility for that shambles then he’s lost the dressing room and the playoffs already.

[Elmore Saint]

Just heard the radio interview on Solent. Is Martin deluded? He talks of our amazing build up play? We offered nothing tonight! No forward play, no running on, just cutting back every time. He just can't cut it.

[Chez]

6 minutes ago, captainchris said:

What is Martin talking about? Did he watch an entirely different match. Says he blames our attack and barely mentions defence! ‘We broke their press’ lol 

Really dreadful summary of the match..

"we broke the press' did he say that? Utter bollocks. Barely got out of our own half. 

[S-Clarke]

Just now, Chez said:

"we broke the press' did he say that? Utter bollocks. Barely got out of our own half. 

He did say that, and also that we were really, really good for most of that game. Nonsense.

[Viking Saint]

2 minutes ago, Badger said:

Warnock for me.

I know we’ve only got two games left but with his track record there’s a good chance he’ll keep us up.

Was just about to post, I'd take either Warnock or Pearson right now. 

[Lighthouse]

3 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

And yet none of Leicester's goals came as a result of poor distribution from McCarthy.

And yet the ball just kept coming back at us, time and time again. The defence kept dropping deeper to cover McC, they kept pressing us higher, we could play through it, they had tonnes of space in front of our back four for the likes of KDH to play balls in, etc.

Not many of the 17 McC conceded in 6 games at the end of last season were directly as a result of his kicks/throws either but somehow in that period our average goals conceded went from 1.75 to 2.83.

I didn't believe that was a coincidence then and I don't believe it was tonight either.

[Micky]

6 minutes ago, obelisk said:

Just seen RM's interview. He's lost it.

Yep using phrases such as 'we were brilliant at breaking the press....'! Mind boggling stuff.

[Lord Duckhunter]

5 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

Players who fight and care will play"

Is it 6 a side? 

[Katalinic]

Get Warnock in to take them out for a Chinese. Football genius. 

[Esher Saint]

could have got Howe when it became obvious to everyone that Ralph had gone as far as he could

could have got Dysche several months after that

both proven, both would probably still be at Premiership Southampton now

instead we end up with a Jones, Seles, RM shitshow.

all entirely down to the bloke (whoever he is) in charge. 

 

 

[davefizzy14]

We missed Downes massively tonight. Far too open in the midfield. Too many times we were exposed. Stuart Armstrong aswell, we had no drive which he provides in abundance.

Edited April 23 by davefizzy14

[Wade Garrett]

4 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

And yet the ball just kept coming back at us, time and time again. The defence kept dropping deeper to cover McC, they kept pressing us higher, we could play through it, they had tonnes of space in front of our back four for the likes of KDH to play balls in, etc.

Not many of the 17 McC conceded in 6 games at the end of last season were directly as a result of his kicks/throws either but somehow in that period our average goals conceded went from 1.75 to 2.83.

I didn't believe that was a coincidence then and I don't believe it was tonight either.

Not a fucking clue.

[Badger]

6 minutes ago, Elmore Saint said:

Just heard the radio interview on Solent. Is Martin deluded? He talks of our amazing build up play? We offered nothing tonight! No forward play, no running on, just cutting back every time. He just can't cut it.

Any links to this for us exiles ? 

[Chez]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

He did say that, and also that we were really, really good for most of that game. Nonsense.

we weren't. Doesn't mean players didn't try, but we were outclassed. 

[LegalEagle]

Martin needs to grow a pair and start getting nasty with the players and himself. He lives in a fantasy world where everyone is lovely. I’d sack him tonight as we’re not going up with him in charge. Ipswich or Leeds will walk it. Warnock is not a bad shout. 

[Micky]

Jobi Mcanuff said we are the team that every other team in the playoffs wants to play (for very obvious reasons), can't really argue with that. 

[scumbag]

His analysis no doubt reflects his 'lived experience'. That's what the hipsters call it I believe, and I also understand it trumps any empirical evidence that may exist to the contrary.

[Galway saint]

42 minutes ago, Chez said:

Four passes and we turn it over.  All teams have to do to beat us is for players stay close to their man and the ball will be turned over. We haven't got the ability to overcome the press. Unless play off opponents sit off us - which they wont, we are fucked. 

First press conference question: teams the press hard seem to have the measure over us. How do you plan to counter a decent press?

Spot on - we lose the ball so often between the 18 yard line and half way and once we do we are overrun it’s panic stations 

 

[John B]

33 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

Get this clown out of my football club. 

Why should he get out of the club when we have finished fourth with over 84 points one of the best positions we have ever achieved in the last sixty years

Clearly Leicester are a better team than us with more pace especially up front and we have no consistent attacking players.

We are wear we are today because we have not developed any top class players and our recruitment in general has been piss poor

To be a success a club needs decent owners with lots of money which we have never had except for the short time 15 years ago when Markus was around 

 

[Pamplemousse]

Before 60 mins, the only difference between the teams was they were much better organised in defence.

They score a second and we crumble. This team has a mental weakness and that can't be coached.

Btw, Martin is right, we need Jack Stephens. Maybe he isn't the best defender but he is a leader and right now we need him on the pitch. When the going gets tough, I'd rather have someone like him on than Bednarek.

[Dellyears]

17 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Is there anyone who thinks TM will be taken to task over that performance? With Wilcox gone who the fuck does he report to anyway? The club is looking like a real shambles now. Playoffs and Prem…not sure which is the scarier!

its really to be hoped we don't go up, next year in the Premier Lg would destroy us, it would be tonight over and over again, a Sheff Utd repeat. We played tonight at walking pace, they looked like they had never seen each other before 

[S-Clarke]

3 minutes ago, Micky said:

Jobi Mcanuff said we are the team that every other team in the playoffs wants to play (for very obvious reasons), can't really argue with that. 

Absolutley, they all know we'll give them a chance. We are the perfect team for a Norwich or WBA to play, they'll be underdogs in a sense but we'll give them all the encouragement.

Edited April 23 by S-Clarke

[Saint Fan CaM]

6 minutes ago, Chez said:

we weren't. Doesn't mean players didn't try, but we were outclassed. 

I would qualify that by saying Martin, his system and tactics were outclassed. He doesn’t know how to deliver a ‘Man City’ system with a team that doesn’t have the quality to deliver it or anything like it.

[woodsaint1]

19 goals conceded in our last 10 games is a joke for a team eyeing promotion. 22 more than Leicester, joint 8th worst defence in the league. Could you imagine how many we would concede in the PL should we get there and employ this same style.

RM deserves most of the criticism but questions also need to be asked of the likes of Calderwood. Two defenders in their day and we cant defend for shit

[adrian lord]

Martin sounds like he is incapable of taking any responsibility for poor performances. His description of tonight's game reported above is reminiscent of Comical Ali

 

 

Edited April 23 by adrian lord

[Whitey Grandad]

8 minutes ago, scumbag said:

His analysis no doubt reflects his 'lived experience'. That's what the hipsters call it I believe, and I also understand it trumps any empirical evidence that may exist to the contrary.

But what about my ‘livid experience’ ?

[captainchris]

4 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

19 goals conceded in our last 10 games is a joke for a team eyeing promotion. 22 more than Leicester, joint 8th worst defence in the league. Could you imagine how many we would concede in the PL should we get there and employ this same style.

RM deserves most of the criticism but questions also need to be asked of the likes of Calderwood. Two defenders in their day and we cant defend for shit

Coaching of our back four is a disgrace. They never engage and Martin has never addressed this at all….

It just get worse and worse no closing no and no engagement with attackers, it’s so obvious but Martin allows this or actively encourages it… !!! 

[Lord Duckhunter]

9 minutes ago, John B said:

Why should he get out of the club when we have finished fourth with over 84 points one of the best positions we have ever achieved in the last sixty years

WTF are you on about. We’ve probably been higher than this in at least 30 of those 60 years. Fucking hell, have a fucking word with yourself. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

RM snippets...

For a long time in the game, I thought we were really good.

Broke through their press a lot.

Pressed well. Stole the ball off them.

Comes to nothing if we're 4 v 4 around their box, and we're not ruthless and they are.

Conceding the second goal is difficult, but it can't descend into what it descended into after that. It's madness.

So in the game at 1-0 (did think it was both offside and a foul, but not blaming the 5-0 on it).

Started the second half really well.

Our moments don't come to enough and we defend pathetically after we go 2 goals down.

First half was high level, very tactical. I thought both teams pressed well. Both teams struggled to get a real flow with the ball. 2 aggressive teams without the ball.

.2nd half, it was a lovely energy we started with causing them some real problems.

2nd goal takes the sting out of it. Need to regroup but didn't.

After that we go into self preservation mode, individually. It's the worst thing you can do in football, to try and protect yourself. To feel as though you're just doing enough in your bit, rather than help your team mate. And I don't like that trait in my team one bit today. And that really hurts.

In rectifying it, Martin said they'd approach it like they always do, win, lose or draw.

We'll show them the brilliant build up play they did. But it's pointless if you don't make the most of it. We broke their press so many times. Che came and took the ball which was fantastic.

The players who want to fight, care the most, and who want to run the most will play.

[obelisk]

Having listened to the Stephens interview on Solent I reckon I'd have him back in the team for the remaining games. He'd at least have a go. Especially if THB gets a retrospective red card.

[Master Bates]

Can Lumley go in goal Saturday please.

[Whitey Grandad]

Just now, Master Bates said:

Can Lumley go in goal Saturday please.

Why? It would make no difference.

[Galway saint]

30 minutes ago, James said:

My question is what players would be good enough to properly implement the Martin system? The system hasn’t been properly implemented by him at MK Dons, Swansea or with us and we’ve got some of the most capable players in the championship (whether we’ve got the best side is up for debate but we are up there). For me the system is bordering on propaganda. If the system needs Man City level players then it’s not a system that’s any use to the level of club Russell Martin is likely to be managing any time soon.

I think the problem is the system assumes you have players who are very comfortable on the ball and are excellent off the ball. We have good players but they aren’t Man City level.

We have now conceded over 60 goals and we have conceded 3 or more 9 times in a season. That’s beyond abysmal.

I really don’t understand a footballing philosophy that can see you have 67% possession yet concede 5 goals and have none on target. That suggests you don’t know what to do with the ball nor what to do when you don’t have the ball.

It’s becoming now very apparent that any half decent side will typically score 2 plus goals against us and that means we are in deep trouble.

We need to move it far more quickly but the midfield is a total cluster fuck really.

Maybe try downes, charles and aribo to give us some backbone and move it forward though them far more quickly 

how many times do we make subs and it falls apart into some shapeless mess? i’ve lost count