New Manager Debate (Merged)

[Willo of Whiteley]

I don’t think we’ve played abysmally on a whole.

We were shit on Saturday and he’s just made some dickish subs.

If he can learn from his mistakes and play players in the right place then we have half a shot

[Doctoroncall]

16 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Lucky escape

https://eflanalysis.com/news/reason-will-stills-sunderland-move-fell-through-as-southampton-prepare-for-championship-promotion-push/

Different set of circumstances. The owner has turned them around since coming in a few years ago. There seems to be more to Saints than the manager position as an issue. 
 

Still certainly shown to be a limited manager but would have thought many others would also struggle here.  SR record has been awful with most personnel appointments. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

57 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

If he can learn from his mistakes and play players in the right place then we have half a shot

Not being ginger would probably help as well. 
 

If we keep this lad in charge, half a shot is about right, that’ll be our average efforts on target. 
 

 

[SW11_Saint]

48 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Not being ginger would probably help as well. 
 

If we keep this lad in charge, half a shot is about right, that’ll be our average efforts on target. 
 

 

Easy tiger… 

(ref. Ball, Strachan, Koeman😉)

[suewhistle]

17 hours ago, sfc4prem said:

Still's made some odd choices, seemingly hasn't coached a particular approach to his team, and cannot polish some of our turds. He also has managed to make some Championship-proven players regress and look particularly ineffective.

If and when he gets his P45, his replacement will still have the same shite up front, in defence and between the sticks. You can't coach the mistakes out of our players. It's ingrained.

 

I avoid coming on here after a defeat, particularly as bad as the Blackburn one, as it just piles on the misery. But the players have to take some of the blame too, as they seem to crumble under pressure. Even when passing around at the back, and every team does it, they don't do so accurately and often just behind the player receiving the ball so that they have to check back and can't play with head up, it's so frustrating.

We wanted a more pragmatic manager who changed things up, but now complain when he does. We want the defence to take fewer risks and then complain about long ball. We want him to play our best players and complain when they get injured, he takes off Scienza to protect him and complain, we complain when he doesn't play certain players and complain when they play and make mistakes.

Why aren't Aribo and Edozie getting a look in: work to rule, contractual issues, unfit? No idea, but other experienced players like Wee Man fail to do anything of note, THB seems a liability, Downes appears to be constantly sick or recovering when he does play. Archer did one thing of note against Blackburn just after halftime when he took a player on but generally seems a waste of space. Armstrong is a willing runner but he's no chance finisher. We get to the byline and cut back quite often but fail to take advantage of when we actual do some slick play.

If we do get a new manager the main task will be to instill some confidence, but as the Rangers example shows Martin was quite good at removing it, but a few wins for the price of my season ticket might help.

 

 

[Wade Garrett]

2 hours ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

I don’t think we’ve played abysmally on a whole.

We were shit on Saturday and he’s just made some dickish subs.

If he can learn from his mistakes and play players in the right place then we have half a shot

Don’t see it.  He’s the Ali Dia of football managers.

[Sheaf Saint]

2 hours ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

I don’t think we’ve played abysmally on a whole.

Aside from 30-40 min dominant spells against Swansea and Bristol City, we absolutely have. 

I watched Stockport beat Port Vale last night to go top of L1. Their overall performance (in a 343 formation) was a whole different level above anything we have dished up so far this season. 

[CB Fry]

2 hours ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

I don’t think we’ve played abysmally on a whole.

We were shit on Saturday and he’s just made some dickish subs.

If he can learn from his mistakes and play players in the right place then we have half a shot

On the whole we have been abysmal all season.

Absolutely abysmal.

The only thing saving him is he has better players.

If he had (say) the Bristol or QPR or whatever squad he'd be in the relegation zone. Some managers over deliver with their resources, our guy is 100% the opposite of that.

This guy is not going to turn it round, we're all just waiting for the inevitable sacking. The only question is how long the management are going to stick it out for.

[AlexLaw76]

2 hours ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

I don’t think we’ve played abysmally on a whole.

We were shit on Saturday and he’s just made some dickish subs.

If he can learn from his mistakes and play players in the right place then we have half a shot

On your own on this one

[Matthew Le God]

53 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

Easy tiger… 

(ref. Ball, Strachan, Koeman😉)

Harry Redknapp & Mark Wotte

[Toadhall Saint]

3 hours ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

I don’t think we’ve played abysmally on a whole.

We were shit on Saturday and he’s just made some dickish subs.

If he can learn from his mistakes and play players in the right place then we have half a shot

When you rely on bringing on the cavalry or a white knight on a white horse to save a point (which has happened on more than one occasion) you are not up to the job.
 

Nice bloke but that’s it and I’m afraid we don’t need a nice bloke. We need someone who has the wherewithal to get us out of this league. My only hope is that the damage being done can be reversed with the right person in charge.

[Willo of Whiteley]

We’ve been shit but the overreaction by some on here is quite funny.

Calling for Will Still’s sacking for managers that have also achieved sod all? 🤣

He can take some of the blame for the poor start to the season (formations and subs) - this is where he doesn’t help himself; but I think a lot of anger also has to be laid FIRMLY on the players and the board.

Recruitment has been average to say the least. 

What’s the next manager going to do? He’s going to inherit the same shitshow if players and they will still be missing from five yards. Still be getting beaten at their near post. Still be outmuscled on every first and second ball. Still misplace a pass and gift the opposition a needless attack on our goal.

[Lord Duckhunter]

13 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Recruitment has been average to say the least. 

Azaz was really good in this league last season, as was Fellows. Leo looks a decent buy, Mads played 38 times for a premier league club 2 seasons ago & 23 times last season. Add to that Charles & Wood, that’s over half a side coming in this season who had fuck all to do with last seasons nightmare .Add to that a few who have done it before at this level, and it’s bleeding obvious where the issue is and it’s not recruitment.

I don’t quite know what people expect when we’re spending the money we’re paying. 4 decent buys listed above and the juries out on Quarshie & Jander, but I reckon with some proper coaching they could be ok at this level.
 

What do you expect, every player we buy to hit the ground running from day one? Me, I expect the manager to do his fucking job and if 4 of the new boys are good enough to walk into the side, that’s a pretty good ratio at this level….

[Convict Colony]

i concur with baron swanhunter

[qwertyell]

14 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Azaz was really good in this league last season

But does that make him a good fit for us? Boro (and Plymouth) fans warned that he was a luxury player who barely strolls about out of possession and drifts through games.

Will Still - supposedly - wants us to press with big energy, which would make Azaz absolutely the wrong profile of player to sign. The press collapses entirely if not everyone commits to it.

I've no idea if Azaz is anything special or not, but he didn't achieve anything with Boro (in fact, they seem to be a better team without him), and sure as shit hasn't shown anything with us that would suggest we should exempt him from basic tactical duties because he's too bloody amazing to muck in with everyone else. 

Far from convinced he'll prove to be a successful signing. 

 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, qwertyell said:

But does that make him a good fit for us? Boro (and Plymouth) fans warned that he was a luxury player who barely strolls about out of possession and drifts through games.

Will Still - supposedly - wants us to press with big energy, which would make Azaz absolutely the wrong profile of player to sign. The press collapses entirely if not everyone commits to it.

I've no idea if Azaz is anything special or not, but he didn't achieve anything with Boro (in fact, they seem to be a better team without him), and sure as shit hasn't shown anything with us that would suggest we should exempt him from basic tactical duties because he's too bloody amazing to muck in with everyone else. 

Far from convinced he'll prove to be a successful signing. 

 

I have seen absolutely nothing from our team this season that oozes 'pressing with energy'

[qwertyell]

5 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I have seen absolutely nothing from our team this season that oozes 'pressing with energy'

No. It's just another facet that is failing to live up to it's billing. But theoretically that's what we're supposed to be doing.

"But if I had to describe [my teams] in one word, the best one I've found is proactive. I want my teams to be proactive in everything we do. That involves pressing a lot, and I ask a huge amount from the players. They have to run. One of my key phrases is 'defensive effort is non-negotiable'. If we can all attack, we can all defend -and we do it as a unit."

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11688/13406817/the-will-still-philosophy-southampton-boss-on-entertainment-proactivity-the-seven-minute-rule

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, qwertyell said:

No. It's just another facet that is failing to live up to it's billing. But theoretically that's what we're supposed to be doing.

"But if I had to describe [my teams] in one word, the best one I've found is proactive. I want my teams to be proactive in everything we do. That involves pressing a lot, and I ask a huge amount from the players. They have to run. One of my key phrases is 'defensive effort is non-negotiable'. If we can all attack, we can all defend -and we do it as a unit."

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11688/13406817/the-will-still-philosophy-southampton-boss-on-entertainment-proactivity-the-seven-minute-rule

He is just clueless (for us), and we are gong absolutely nowhere with him at the wheel.

[Wade Garrett]

53 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Azaz was really good in this league last season, as was Fellows. Leo looks a decent buy, Mads played 38 times for a premier league club 2 seasons ago & 23 times last season. Add to that Charles & Wood, that’s over half a side coming in this season who had fuck all to do with last seasons nightmare .Add to that a few who have done it before at this level, and it’s bleeding obvious where the issue is and it’s not recruitment.

I don’t quite know what people expect when we’re spending the money we’re paying. 4 decent buys listed above and the juries out on Quarshie & Jander, but I reckon with some proper coaching they could be ok at this level.
 

What do you expect, every player we buy to hit the ground running from day one? Me, I expect the manager to do his fucking job and if 4 of the new boys are good enough to walk into the side, that’s a pretty good ratio at this level….

Don’t bite, he’s a fucking wind-up merchant.

[James]

56 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Azaz was really good in this league last season, as was Fellows. Leo looks a decent buy, Mads played 38 times for a premier league club 2 seasons ago & 23 times last season. Add to that Charles & Wood, that’s over half a side coming in this season who had fuck all to do with last seasons nightmare .Add to that a few who have done it before at this level, and it’s bleeding obvious where the issue is and it’s not recruitment.

I don’t quite know what people expect when we’re spending the money we’re paying. 4 decent buys listed above and the juries out on Quarshie & Jander, but I reckon with some proper coaching they could be ok at this level.
 

What do you expect, every player we buy to hit the ground running from day one? Me, I expect the manager to do his fucking job and if 4 of the new boys are good enough to walk into the side, that’s a pretty good ratio at this level….

Precisely. We signed two of the most productive players in this league last season and neither of them can get in the team because our manager chooses to play a formation that requires both of them to play out of position. Will Still said that he wanted to play 4-2-3-1, we bought players suited to that system and he ditched it after one poor performance at Hull. It’s not all his fault, of course it isn’t, but we should be doing considerably better than we are. The fact we aren’t is primarily on the manager.

Edited yesterday at 18:54 by James

[SuperSAINT]

22 hours ago, Dusic said:

Heaven forbid if he tried to implement an actual style of play in possession! 

I purposely didn’t say RM mk.2 was a bad idea, btw.  It raises an interesting question about whether people would go back to that style of play or not. 

[Roo1976]

"I've always thought of it this way: I hate watching boring games of football. I don't want to go to a stadium or sit down to watch a match on TV and think, 'I don't want to watch this'. I want to see something engaging. A direct quote from our manager talking on Sky sports. Wow .

[adrian lord]

5 hours ago, suewhistle said:

 

he takes off Scienza to protect him and complain,

 

 

What, or who, did he need protecting from? At 27 he is in his absolute prime physiologically and psychologically. 

[stknowle]

32 minutes ago, Roo1976 said:

"I've always thought of it this way: I hate watching boring games of football. I don't want to go to a stadium or sit down to watch a match on TV and think, 'I don't want to watch this'. I want to see something engaging. A direct quote from our manager talking on Sky sports. Wow .

Well if I supported any of our opponents this season I wouldn’t be thinking ‘i don’t want to watch this’ and/or ‘this is a boring game of football’ so he’s kinda fulfilling his own brief.

[AlexLaw76]

We need a new manager to then sack him after being promoted. Along with the NET SPEND trophy, we need to hold on to this bad boy

[SW11_Saint]

5 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

Harry Redknapp & Mark Wotte

They weren’t ginger. Merrington was though. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

7 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I have seen absolutely nothing from our team this season that oozes 'pressing with energy'

More pressing with energy in the club laundry.

[Give it to Ron]

14 hours ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

We’ve been shit but the overreaction by some on here is quite funny.

Calling for Will Still’s sacking for managers that have also achieved sod all? 🤣

He can take some of the blame for the poor start to the season (formations and subs) - this is where he doesn’t help himself; but I think a lot of anger also has to be laid FIRMLY on the players and the board.

Recruitment has been average to say the least. 

What’s the next manager going to do? He’s going to inherit the same shitshow if players and they will still be missing from five yards. Still be getting beaten at their near post. Still be outmuscled on every first and second ball. Still misplace a pass and gift the opposition a needless attack on our goal.

What is a new manager going to do? 

Make a proper sub for a start?

Flexible tactics as we were promised? 
Not play 5 at the back v an abysmal Swansea?

Of course no new manager has ever improved a player? Why do ours get worse?
 

What has happened to players like Sesay and Matsuki who showed promise pre-season?

What game has Still shown any knowledge or ability to change a game?

i eagerly await your answers

[badgerx16]

11 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

We need a new manager to then sack him after being promoted. Along with the NET SPEND trophy, we need to hold on to this bad boy

There's a challenge; name all 22.

[Willo of Whiteley]

27 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

There's a challenge; name all 22.

I only know from Stuart Gray onwards, (2001/02 was the year I got into football) Strachan, Wigley, Sturrock, Redknapp - EFL years - , Adkins, Pochettino, Koeman, Puel, Pelligrino, Hughes, Hassenhutl, Selles, Martin, Juric, Rusk - back to the Championship, yay!

I’m guessing Souness was there somewhere at the start? Brando or too maybe? Or I could be going back to far.

[Willo of Whiteley]

49 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

What is a new manager going to do? 

Make a proper sub for a start?

Flexible tactics as we were promised? 
Not play 5 at the back v an abysmal Swansea?

Of course no new manager has ever improved a player? Why do ours get worse?
 

What has happened to players like Sesay and Matsuki who showed promise pre-season?

What game has Still shown any knowledge or ability to change a game?

i eagerly await your answers

1) Depends entirely on the manager, doesn’t it. Depends if they are strong, authoritarian etc or whether it’s Ted Lasso.

2) Making a proper sub would be wonderful, not sure what your question is there…

3) I’ve already said this regarding formation, Will Still hasn’t helped himself by playing a back five when we’ve got an abundance of supposed attacking talent, but your example of the Swansea game, is that result on him? No, give it a rest. He hasn’t instructed Armstrong to pass every shot to the keeper or Jander to air kick it on the line.

4) Your guess is as good as mine.

5) Agreed, I didn’t see much from Sesay but saw more from Matsuki, very unfortunate to not be in the squad. But again, I’m not the manager.

6) You could argue Wrexham. Manning subbed on and scores and assists within a few minutes of each other. 😂

I don’t really get the pop at me, just be rational in your thinking.

Watch the videos of all the chances we’ve missed since the start of the season. I think more attention should be on the players, not the manager.

Changing the manager now just rips up the plan for another season, and next summer we’ll start this process all again.

Next October we could be having the same argument about Carrick playing “Martin-ball” or this non-league manager being out of his depth, etc.

[Willo of Whiteley]

For context to the above, please tell me which of these misses are Will Still’s fault?

I’m once again not saying he has been good by any means so far, but Jesus Christ, people’s frustrations needs to for once be aimed at the players and the board than the manager.

[WALK DMC]

4 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Changing the manager now just rips up the plan for another season, and next summer we’ll start this process all again.

Next October we could be having the same argument about Carrick playing “Martin-ball” or this non-league manager being out of his depth, etc.

A fairly reasoned response, although it's the last two paragraphs which are the ones that worry me. I'm absolutely fine with losing Will, but only if we have confidence that his successor will significantly improve what we have. 

Taking a knee jerk decision to appoint a Manager with a mediocre track record just because they are available (and there is usually a good reason why they are available!) may only perpetuate the downwards cycle that we find ourselves in.

I'm not sure what the answer is, I've yet to see a name of an experienced Manager who could transform both the culture and performances of our club.  Maybe someone like the unlikable Brendon Rogers, but I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't consider us anyway.  

I don't think that we will be relegated this season (famous last words), so we should take our time assessing the market - good Managers do come available during the season. Of course, I'm assuming that Sports Republic will make a good decision even when they take their time .................. 

 

[kitch]

I like him, I think he'll be a good manager somewhere (and I think he's been a good manager in France already) but I just don't think he's the right fit here. Players doing repeatedly stupid things kinda smacks of them not being arsed because they don't fear the consequences. 
I've heard him coaching in French, and it sounds like a different guy to the one coaching in English.  Far more assertive and commanding. No idea why that is, but the bottom line for me is that this team needed picking up by its bootstraps just like Ralph did in 2018, and I don't think WS is the guy to do it.
I want him to be, I really do. I'd love to think differently, but I just don't think he's 'the guy', and all the while he's here we're going to tank.

I don't blame him one bit, though. I blame the muppets at the top who think they're more clever than they actually are. We do actually need a Big Sam, Dyche or Moyes type in here now. I don't care about sexy football or 'philosophies'- 4 wins in 50. That's what I care about.
We need a manager who has the nous and the clout to go against the board, fight on behalf of his players and bring results despite the people at the top. 

We need new people running the club and spending Solak's money more than a new manager.

[Charlie Wayman]

15 hours ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

We’ve been shit but the overreaction by some on here is quite funny.

Calling for Will Still’s sacking for managers that have also achieved sod all? 🤣

He can take some of the blame for the poor start to the season (formations and subs) - this is where he doesn’t help himself; but I think a lot of anger also has to be laid FIRMLY on the players and the board.

Recruitment has been average to say the least. 

What’s the next manager going to do? He’s going to inherit the same shitshow if players and they will still be missing from five yards. Still be getting beaten at their near post. Still be outmuscled on every first and second ball. Still misplace a pass and gift the opposition a needless attack on our goal.

Utter tosh!

[Give it to Ron]

56 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

1) Depends entirely on the manager, doesn’t it. Depends if they are strong, authoritarian etc or whether it’s Ted Lasso.

2) Making a proper sub would be wonderful, not sure what your question is there…

3) I’ve already said this regarding formation, Will Still hasn’t helped himself by playing a back five when we’ve got an abundance of supposed attacking talent, but your example of the Swansea game, is that result on him? No, give it a rest. He hasn’t instructed Armstrong to pass every shot to the keeper or Jander to air kick it on the line.

4) Your guess is as good as mine.

5) Agreed, I didn’t see much from Sesay but saw more from Matsuki, very unfortunate to not be in the squad. But again, I’m not the manager.

6) You could argue Wrexham. Manning subbed on and scores and assists within a few minutes of each other. 😂

I don’t really get the pop at me, just be rational in your thinking.

Watch the videos of all the chances we’ve missed since the start of the season. I think more attention should be on the players, not the manager.

Changing the manager now just rips up the plan for another season, and next summer we’ll start this process all again.

Next October we could be having the same argument about Carrick playing “Martin-ball” or this non-league manager being out of his depth, etc.

Why does it rip up the plan there are plenty of teams that have made a Christmas run and got in the play offs.

in answer to above yes the players miss too many chances and defence terrible gifts but who is coaching them? Is that not the manager ?
In answer to your responses 1-5 are the responsibility of Still as manager that’s his remit and responsibility .

Having a pop! you posted on the thread I am just disputing what you said isn’t that the idea of a forum ? 
Who would you appoint?

[Willo of Whiteley]

3 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

Why does it rip up the plan there are plenty of teams that have made a Christmas run and got in the play offs.

in answer to above yes the players miss too many chances and defence terrible gifts but who is coaching them? Is that not the manager ?
In answer to your responses 1-5 are the responsibility of Still as manager that’s his remit and responsibility .

Having a pop! you posted on the thread I am just disputing what you said isn’t that the idea of a forum ? 
Who would you appoint?

I don’t think it’s as simple as “coaching players to not miss”. It comes down to composure and not being rash or hesitant.

I was watching some of the 23/24 season goals last night, we scored some crackers seemingly out of nowhere. I think a lot of it is down to confidence, but they can’t hide behind this excuse and last seasons shitshow forever.

Who would I appoint? At the moment that’s the problem, I wouldn’t sack him, yet. But he’s on borrowed time, I think he’ll get to Christmas but only if we’re win say the bottom five.

If we’re mid table I wouldn’t expect much change this season.

There isn’t anyone in the market that I think “Yeah I’d take them”, or certainly no one realistic.

I would rather sell clear problem players like Flynn Downes, Sam Edozie etc - players that clearly don’t want to be here. There’s a lot of toxicity around the playing squad.

 

[Badger]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

There's a challenge; name all 22.

As the original club , Askham/Lawrie as DOF : Branfoot, Ball, Merrington, Sounness  (4)

Lowe era ;  Dave Jones, Hoddle, Gray, Strachan, Sturrock, Wigley (?), 'Arry   (7)

Premier League only so not including EFL years.

Lienherr/Gao : Adkins, Poch, Koeman, Puel, Pelligrino, Hughes, Ralph (7)

SR: Nathan Jones, Selles (?), Lego, Juric , Rusk (?)  (5)

 

That's 23 by my counting. Question if Wigley, Selles or Rusk should be included, the last two were temporary although 'to end of season' .

[Badger]

I didn't realise the turnover of managers was so bad. 

In context Ted Bates and Lawrie managed for 30 years between them. Chris Nicholl was here for 6 or 7.

Saints were once regraded as a stable club, a "non-sacking club" was a phrase often used. 

Read an article yesterday saying Celtic have only had 20 managers in their entire history !

[SW5 SAINT]

1 hour ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

1) Depends entirely on the manager, doesn’t it. Depends if they are strong, authoritarian etc or whether it’s Ted Lasso.

2) Making a proper sub would be wonderful, not sure what your question is there…

3) I’ve already said this regarding formation, Will Still hasn’t helped himself by playing a back five when we’ve got an abundance of supposed attacking talent, but your example of the Swansea game, is that result on him? No, give it a rest. He hasn’t instructed Armstrong to pass every shot to the keeper or Jander to air kick it on the line.

4) Your guess is as good as mine.

5) Agreed, I didn’t see much from Sesay but saw more from Matsuki, very unfortunate to not be in the squad. But again, I’m not the manager.

6) You could argue Wrexham. Manning subbed on and scores and assists within a few minutes of each other. 😂

I don’t really get the pop at me, just be rational in your thinking.

Watch the videos of all the chances we’ve missed since the start of the season. I think more attention should be on the players, not the manager.

Changing the manager now just rips up the plan for another season, and next summer we’ll start this process all again.

Next October we could be having the same argument about Carrick playing “Martin-ball” or this non-league manager being out of his depth, etc.

I think we need to rip up the current plan, it ain’t working…..!

[DT]

Is there even a glimmer of activity on the not having a shit manager front?

[Travelling Saint]

46 minutes ago, Badger said:

As the original club , Askham/Lawrie as DOF : Branfoot, Ball, Merrington, Sounness  (4)

Lowe era ;  Dave Jones, Hoddle, Gray, Strachan, Sturrock, Wigley (?), 'Arry   (7)

Premier League only so not including EFL years.

Lienherr/Gao : Adkins, Poch, Koeman, Puel, Pelligrino, Hughes, Ralph (7)

SR: Nathan Jones, Selles (?), Lego, Juric , Rusk (?)  (5)

 

That's 23 by my counting. Question if Wigley, Selles or Rusk should be included, the last two were temporary although 'to end of season' .

Pardew as well.

[AlexLaw76]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

As the original club , Askham/Lawrie as DOF : Branfoot, Ball, Merrington, Sounness  (4)

Lowe era ;  Dave Jones, Hoddle, Gray, Strachan, Sturrock, Wigley (?), 'Arry   (7)

Premier League only so not including EFL years.

Lienherr/Gao : Adkins, Poch, Koeman, Puel, Pelligrino, Hughes, Ralph (7)

SR: Nathan Jones, Selles (?), Lego, Juric , Rusk (?)  (5)

 

That's 23 by my counting. Question if Wigley, Selles or Rusk should be included, the last two were temporary although 'to end of season' .

Pellegrino

Fucking hell, forgot about him.

We have had some horrors. Pellegrino, Sturrock, Wigley.....Jesus

[Sheaf Saint]

3 hours ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

For context to the above, please tell me which of these misses are Will Still’s fault?

I’m once again not saying he has been good by any means so far, but Jesus Christ, people’s frustrations needs to for once be aimed at the players and the board than the manager.

Ok so we've missed a ridiculous amount of chances so far, and nobody is disputing that. But these are the players we've got and are largely stuck with untill the end of the season, barring an unusually busy January window. 

So when your strikers aren't doing the business, you need to make sure that your defensive unit is. Puel knew this in 16/17 - he recognised that our attacking options weren't great so he made us a much more solid defensive unit. And OK, the football may not have been entertaining, but he had a CB pairing of Stephens and Yoshida for the second half of that season, and managed to make us compact and hard to beat, against PL teams.

Can we say the same about Still? Absolutely not. We're not scoring enough, granted. But the system we're employing is leaving us wide open and leaking goals against very poor teams. And when we are inevitably chasing a game because it's gone wrong, our substitutions are making us even worse. That is 100% on the manager. 

So of the options available to us right now, replacing Still with a competent manager who knows how to coach a defence and set up a team properly is the only truly feasible one to improve results, because we can't just sack the strikers and replace them. 

[revolution saint]

3 hours ago, WALK DMC said:

A fairly reasoned response, although it's the last two paragraphs which are the ones that worry me. I'm absolutely fine with losing Will, but only if we have confidence that his successor will significantly improve what we have. 

Taking a knee jerk decision to appoint a Manager with a mediocre track record just because they are available (and there is usually a good reason why they are available!) may only perpetuate the downwards cycle that we find ourselves in.

I'm not sure what the answer is, I've yet to see a name of an experienced Manager who could transform both the culture and performances of our club.  Maybe someone like the unlikable Brendon Rogers, but I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't consider us anyway.  

I don't think that we will be relegated this season (famous last words), so we should take our time assessing the market - good Managers do come available during the season. Of course, I'm assuming that Sports Republic will make a good decision even when they take their time .................. 

 

Good post and I'm in the same camp.  I wouldn't be gutted if Still went but I'm not sure changing him is going to make that much difference either.

[skintsaint]

42 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Sturrock

Players never took to him after turning up at training with egg on his top........... or something.

Only lost 6 games or so out of 14 I think. So not really under the horror category.

[SaintNewForest]

1 hour ago, Travelling Saint said:

Pardew as well.

Don't think Pardew ever managed us in the PL, or we'd be including the likes of Burley, Dodd/Gorman, Portvliet & Wotte in those lists as well. 

[Christophenburg]

There's a few available and very Saints-y managers:

Raphael Wicky - sacked by Young Boys last year and hasn't found another club yet. Young, Swiss, vaguely successful without every being a huge success

Marco Rose - almost certainly too good for us but has a recent track record of being sacked for underperforming in Germany. Big RB name, which SR seem to be trying (and failing) to replicate

Bo Svensson - Danish, achieved the impossible at Mainz but has been otherwise rubbish

That all said, the current SR managerial strategy is a mystery to me. Always used to be gambling on a sort of successful young European manager, these days I have no idea. So I could see Carrick, I could see Lage, could even see Kjetil Knutsen who would be a proper SR style gamble that I could see paying off, but he'll have better offers

[Badger]

26 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Players never took to him after turning up at training with egg on his top........... or something.

Only lost 6 games or so out of 14 I think. So not really under the horror category.

I don’t think Sturrock was as bad as many now want us to believe.

One thing that is forgotten is that he had us winning away from home and scoring goals in the process. Wasn’t it 3-1 at Man City, and 4-1 win at Wolves. 
 

He may not have been popular in the dressing room, but I’d be happy with some of those results now. 

[Travelling Saint]

21 minutes ago, SaintNewForest said:

Don't think Pardew ever managed us in the PL, or we'd be including the likes of Burley, Dodd/Gorman, Portvliet & Wotte in those lists as well. 

True, I clearly didn't read it very well otherwise I would have seen it said Premier league, doh!