Tonda Eckert

[The Wyvern]

1 minute ago, Saints4everChris said:

Anyone who makes a mistake or deliberately does something that costs their employer £200m can expect to be fired. I see no alternative.

One way or another I'm sure he'll be fired and/or banned, but worth remembering we wouldn't even be in a position to be close to a £200m game if it hadn't been for Tonda's impact.  Still, Rusk, Juric, to an extent Martin, couldn't get a tune out of these players. 

[Elmore Saint]

99% probability of NO given the media / social led shitstorm that is todays normality, BUT....

Is there a world where Tonda can take a Damascene route to redemption? 

Perhaps by working alongside a "dressing-room trusted" person whilst on that "journey" - such an overused term these days - and we retain benefit from his obvious ability to coach football players. Netflix would love that story...

[Midfield_General]

11 minutes ago, JohnnyShearer2.0 said:

Getting pissed off with this cunt. 

Did Saints do him dirty at some point or what.

He lost his gig at the Telegraph so now he's just another social media goon trying to whip up controversy for clicks, because clicks = his revenue stream. 

Used to be a respected broadsheet journalist, now he's just a posh Adrian Durham

Edited 6 hours ago by Midfield_General

[coalman]

5 minutes ago, Elmore Saint said:

99% probability of NO given the media / social led shitstorm that is todays normality, BUT....

Is there a world where Tonda can take a Damascene route to redemption? 

Perhaps by working alongside a "dressing-room trusted" person whilst on that "journey" - such an overused term these days - and we retain benefit from his obvious ability to coach football players. Netflix would love that story...

Even in the vanishingly unlikely even that the FA doesn't ban him, then no. Him staying on as a manager would be too much of a distraction on and off the pitch.

[Football Special]

10 minutes ago, Elmore Saint said:

99% probability of NO given the media / social led shitstorm that is todays normality, BUT....

Is there a world where Tonda can take a Damascene route to redemption? 

Perhaps by working alongside a "dressing-room trusted" person whilst on that "journey" - such an overused term these days - and we retain benefit from his obvious ability to coach football players. Netflix would love that story...

I think I'd keep him just to wind up cunts like Henry Winter 

[cambsaint]

I personally think there is the hint of genius in Tonda Eckert . He was young and inexperienced and needed a mature helper.

However pragmatically Sport Republic imo would be mad to lose his services. I consider the pragmatic answer is to transfer him to one of our other clubs for a year or so in an assistant manager capacity.

In a year or so he can say "mea culpa, I was inexperienced and didn't recognise the gravity of my offence as it was de rigeur in the other leagues I had experience in."

By this time as the saying goes the headlines will not just be today's Chip paper but will have been recycled into Amazon cardboard at least twice.

I see no reason why a mistake made in his formative year as a manager with little or no experience should blight a very promising career.

I think it is extremely sad that such an amazing performance can blind us to his amazing achievement, the two most notable of which the win over Arsenal and the game against Man City would have been impossible to spy upon.

However I am furious at the amateurish nature of the operation-sending a callow youth up with a mobile phone is asking to be caught.

 

[Saint_lambden]

49 minutes ago, Elmore Saint said:

99% probability of NO given the media / social led shitstorm that is todays normality, BUT....

Is there a world where Tonda can take a Damascene route to redemption? 

Perhaps by working alongside a "dressing-room trusted" person whilst on that "journey" - such an overused term these days - and we retain benefit from his obvious ability to coach football players. Netflix would love that story...

Not a chance - he'll be gone imminently. The only question is when - whether it's before or after any FA ban which could make his dismissal more straight forward from a breach of contract/gross misconduct point of view. 

By the sounds of it, there was a growing sense in recent weeks that the success in terms of the unbeaten run was in spite of him and not because of him, which this whole saga just goes to confirm. A core of the players found his man-management style odd to say the least, and that's now three successive permanent managers (Juric, Still and Eckert) who have been emotionless. It's fair to say that the next appointment needs to have a bit of character about them to get the fans and players back on side and - in a way - embrace the siege mentality. 

[revolution saint]

5 minutes ago, Saint_lambden said:

 

By the sounds of it, there was a growing sense in recent weeks that the success in terms of the unbeaten run was in spite of him and not because of him, which this whole saga just goes to confirm. A core of the players found his man-management style odd to say the least, and that's now three successive permanent managers (Juric, Still and Eckert) who have been emotionless. It's fair to say that the next appointment needs to have a bit of character about them to get the fans and players back on side and - in a way - embrace the siege mentality. 

How do you know this?

[skintsaint]

Surprised he hasn't gone yet to be honest.

[Harry_SFC]

We hate Eckert, Tonda Eckert,

I just don't think you understand.

We didn't win the cup,

he spied and fucked us up,

We hate Tonda Eckert.

[Mr X]

9 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Surprised he hasn't gone yet to be honest.

Probably being sure they can get rid without paying him off and for that they need an FA charge or to determine if it's gross misconduct, probably the minions are working on some other terrible statement to release

[Saint NL]

He'll either leave and never be heard of again, or he'll go on and become a great manager. Not sure which

[Hawkswood]

3 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

If it's arbritrary then why did we break it? Why not send people to spy on Boro three months ago, then we'd get away with it? It's quite straight forward, the closer it is to the date of the game, the more of an advantage you're likely to have it. That's why we did it and that's why there's a rule against it. A large number of rules are arbitrary, that doesn't make them wrong.

Drive at 31mph - you get fined

Want to buy alcohol aged 17 years and 364 days - Nope

I understand that  I haven't said anywhere that I condone what has been done, but for the amount of retribution that has been dished out for something  - that by their rules is still fundamentally allowed -  seems way over the top to me. That was the point I was trying to make and again NOWHERE have I tried to defend what has been carried out.

[Ted Bates Statue]

1 hour ago, Saint_lambden said:

By the sounds of it, there was a growing sense in recent weeks that the success in terms of the unbeaten run was in spite of him and not because of him, which this whole saga just goes to confirm. A core of the players found his man-management style odd to say the least, and that's now three successive permanent managers (Juric, Still and Eckert) who have been emotionless.

Thank you for sharing your info but I'm not having this character assassination of him now.

I have to question the players, obviously I don't blame them for Spygate but their performance for large parts of the season was poor, and that's a fucking understatement. We were basically shit for the entirety of last year, even in November on our winning run we were mostly lucky.

If it wasn't Tonda who turned things around, then what? A good transfer window and suddenly the players sorted themselves out and actually bothered to show up for three months? If they want to sue the club, I'd like to counter-sue the players for what they've served up.

I'm not surprised that they might not have taken to Tonda, the 'hungry eyes' thing sounded batshit. And I know everyone laughed when he shook hands with Phil Parkinson after the 1-5 Wrexham demolition but to me all it indicated was that he is an incredibly driven careerist who would not be hanging around long with us. The only thing that would have ensured his loyalty is if we protected him at all costs, when instead we let him speak at the hearing and put his foot in his mouth like Parsons.

Being mindful that he may be neurodivergent, he's done very well to get where he is in football, and I would be a lot more sympathetic to him had he attempted to get his espionage done with a little more subtlety. But there are people around him who clearly knew what he was up to and encouraged his methods without providing the push-back that he badly needed. As a result we're going to let a talented manager slip through our fingers. 

 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Ted Bates Statue

[Badger]

54 minutes ago, Saint_lambden said:

. It's fair to say that the next appointment needs to have a bit of character about them to get the fans and players back on side and - in a way - embrace the siege mentality. 

“… yeh, f’sure … well, they know where I am if they want to give me a call… but I haven’t heard from them yet… “

Maybe not the one to get the fans on board though. 

[James G]

1 hour ago, cambsaint said:

I personally think there is the hint of genius in Tonda Eckert . He was young and inexperienced and needed a mature helper.

However pragmatically Sport Republic imo would be mad to lose his services. I consider the pragmatic answer is to transfer him to one of our other clubs for a year or so in an assistant manager capacity.

In a year or so he can say "mea culpa, I was inexperienced and didn't recognise the gravity of my offence as it was de rigeur in the other leagues I had experience in."

By this time as the saying goes the headlines will not just be today's Chip paper but will have been recycled into Amazon cardboard at least twice.

I see no reason why a mistake made in his formative year as a manager with little or no experience should blight a very promising career.

I think it is extremely sad that such an amazing performance can blind us to his amazing achievement, the two most notable of which the win over Arsenal and the game against Man City would have been impossible to spy upon.

However I am furious at the amateurish nature of the operation-sending a callow youth up with a mobile phone is asking to be caught.

 

I think he'll go on to have a great career, but abroad. He'll need to ride the wave just now and see out any ban

I also don't think we spied on every team, because you can't. And I don't think the spying helped 

But, rules are rules

[Badger]

7 minutes ago, Ted Bates Statue said:

The only thing that would have ensured his loyalty is if we protected him at all costs, when instead we let him speak at the hearing and put his foot in his mouth like Parsons.

Being mindful that he may be neurodivergent, he's done very well to get where he is in football, and I would be far more sympathetic to him had he attempted to get his espionage done with a little more subtlety. But there are people around him who clearly knew what he was up to and encouraged his methods without providing the push-back that he badly needed.

 

 

Would have thought he had to speak at the tribunal as a key member of our club. Not sure how we could protect him from that. 

[SaintNate]

He had 00Salt dress up in Eastleigh gear to spy on Ipswich, then used the excuse that he didn't know that spying was against the rules. 

Fucking clown. Has he been sacked yet?

[Badger]

1 hour ago, Saint_lambden said:

By the sounds of it, there was a growing sense in recent weeks that the success in terms of the unbeaten run was in spite of him and not because of him, which this whole saga just goes to confirm. A core of the players found his man-management style odd to say the least, and that's now three successive permanent managers (Juric, Still and Eckert) who have been emotionless. It's fair to say that the next appointment needs to have a bit of character about them to get the fans and players back on side and - in a way - embrace the siege mentality. 

A growing sense from where ?

Personally I don’t agree with that, his selections and substitutions were often spot on. Lost count of looking at the line up thinking why’s he playing, to come away struck by that players performance.

As for man management, it certainly seemed to work, and players looked motivated. If you want to hear about managers ‘odd’ behaviour look at Clough and some of the stories about him. Didn’t hold him back.

Disagree that he was emotionless, but very focused.

I suspect there will be inevitable stories downplaying his role and input as it does when a player goes. I’m sure if MLT had left in his prime- and the internet existed - we’d have had “well he didn’t tackle back ..”, “other players pissed off carrying him and his  lazy ways…”

Disappointed that he’s leaving in this way, and we won’t see him continue  what seemed great potential. 
 

Next manager ??? Dread to think.

Edited 4 hours ago by Badger

[die Mannyschaft]

2 minutes ago, SaintNate said:

He had 00Salt dress up in Eastleigh gear to spy on Ipswich, then used the excuse that he didn't know that spying was against the rules. 

Fucking clown. Has he been sacked yet?

Saints are just dealing with his season bonus before he gets kicked out. Tonda has also got to do a handover of his football tactics to Lallana.

[Draino76]

Tondas' gotta stay.  Blame it on Spors. The analysts were under Spors's control. 

[Draino76]

Apologies if the apostrophes are not right.  Phil can go also.  Vacuum salesman holy cow (just checked on LinkedIn and now understand Dyson references lol).

[Saint NL]

21 minutes ago, Draino76 said:

 Phil can go also.  Vacuum salesman holy cow 

You could say he sucks 

[Willo of Whiteley]

1 hour ago, skintsaint said:

Surprised he hasn't gone yet to be honest.

This entirely.

It’s not difficult to sack someone when you’ve got evidence if they’ve admitted wrongdoing.

[beatlesaint]

1 hour ago, Saint NL said:

He'll either leave and never be heard of again, or he'll go on and become a great manager. Not sure which

He'll go on and become a great manager. This is all very raw at the moment, and its raw to us. I would think a German 1st Division club for example wont give two hoots. If there is a ban can the FA impose one outside of their jurisdiction? He may get a 6 month ban over here, doubtful he will in Europe.

[SaintNate]

5 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

This entirely.

It’s not difficult to sack someone when you’ve got evidence if they’ve admitted wrongdoing.

Gross negligence is grounds for dismissal in all walks of life.

Sacking Tonda is the absolute bare minimum that they need to do. 

[Saint86]

7 hours ago, Guan 2.0 said:

As I posted in the expelled thread: 
 

I have no doubt Saints will be under huge pressure from the media and Rival clubs to Sack Tonda. I believe this is in no small part due to the fact that we only have to finish 8th next season to reach the play-offs.

If you are involved in any championship club, ensuring that Southampton jettisons a very good manager, while simultaneously being put in a position of trying to hire anyone while radioactive to the world at large would be a number one priority. 

Given this, unless he is banned, I hope we keep Tonda.  
 

If the players will play for him and he isn't banned. We should keep him. But those are 2 big ifs. He's a young manager with only half a season's experience who made a bad error. But the buck doesn't stop with him. No supervision or compliance above him, and in reality what we've done is commonplace. Saints are damned now whatever we do, but the league and media smell blood in the water and would want nothing better than to see us sack the best manager in the division.

Edited 3 hours ago by Saint86

[Willo of Whiteley]

One outlet reported Southampton players were at Staplewood today.

1) I wonder if that’s true

and 2) If that was the case, imagine being a fly on the wall 

[Hawkswood]

I think once the FA get involved as well this conversation becomes moot. Be stunned if they dont ban him.

 

But agree, Ive come round to the idea ( unbelievably) that if the players will still play for him AND the FA dont ban him then we should keep him.

[Wade Garrett]

Can’t believe that some want Tonda to stay.

He has just got is kicked out of the play-offs.  That is all.

  Not only do I want him unceremoniously dumped by the club, I would like to fucking chin him for what he’s done.

[revolution saint]

4 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

One outlet reported Southampton players were at Staplewood today.

1) I wonder if that’s true

and 2) If that was the case, imagine being a fly on the wall 

This is exactly the kind of thing that got us into trouble in the first place.

[Nordic Saint]

Bielsa won the Championship with Leeds the following season, and was named Championship Manager of the Year:

Derby training ground 'spy': Le:eds boss Marcelo Bielsa takes responsibility - BBC Sport

Bielsa wins Championship LMA award | Football News | Sky Sports

Even with the new 72-hour rule, the moralising and double standards are ridiculous.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Nordic Saint

[bpsaint]

I’m genuinely astounded people are saying Tonda either could stay, or should stay, like what planet are you on.

This bloke has committed gross misconduct, gross negligence, and has bought the club into major disrepute. This isn’t just about the £200 mill plus in tv money, think about the cost of this legal challenge, think about the sponsors exercising their right to pull out of their deals.

Honestly we’re not some small business with a handful of employees who might turn around and think “yeah ok he messed up we all make mistakes”, this is an internationally recognised brand that has suffered its most embarrassing moment in its 140 year history, and the ramifications will rumble on for years.

There is ZERO chance Tonda stays.

Edited 3 hours ago by bpsaint

[saintant]

16 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

It was too good to be true, the ridiculous run/winning streaks were backed up with blatant cheating, orchestrated by this twat.

He was the man Spors wanted, he was the one they desperately nudged to get the job after the previous useless manager.

 Not to condone it but the cheating had practically zero contribution to the unbeaten streak or the semi final victory over Boro.

[revolution saint]

Just now, bpsaint said:

I’m genuinely astounded people are saying Tonda either could stay, or should stay, like what planet are you on.

This bloke has committed gross misconduct, gross negligence, and has bought the club into major disrepute. This isn’t just about the £200 mill plus in tv money, think about the cost of this legal challenge, think about the sponsors exercising their right to pull out of their deals.

Honestly we’re not some small business with a handle of employees who might turn around and think “yeah ok he messed up we all make mistakes”, this is an internationally recognised brand that has suffered its most embarrassing moment in its 140 year history, and the ramifications will rumble on for years.

There is ZERO chance Tonda stays.

I think he'll almost certainly get banned making it moot but the reasoning behind the logic is that he might represent to people the best chance of getting up next season.  Always debateable but that's why people are considering it.  Hope that helps.

[AlexLaw76]

3 minutes ago, saintant said:

 Not to condone it but the cheating had practically zero contribution to the unbeaten streak or the semi final victory over Boro.

ummm, right

[bpsaint]

Just now, revolution saint said:

I think he'll almost certainly get banned making it moot but the reasoning behind the logic is that he might represent to people the best chance of getting up next season.  Always debateable but that's why people are considering it.  Hope that helps.

Then those people aren’t living in the real world IMO.

 

[saintant]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

ummm, right

It's what nearly every ex pro footballer is saying but you know better.

[VectisSaint]

I'm not sure that Tonda should be shouldering all the blame. In my eyes Spoors has much to answer for, if he didn't know what was going on then that's as bad as knowing. He is responsible for Eckert in my view, and should have been giving the guidance to him about rules etc. One thing that strikes me is that we don't have anyone senior who has been involved for long in the English game. I don't mean they need to be English, but someone with some knowledge, experience at the sporting level. These guys should be ensuring that rules are known and understood. Maybe it got overlooked because we were not in the EFL when the rules changed, but thats no excuse. Also don't buy the idea that Tonda was new to the EFL, he used to be at Barnsley, he hasn't just come over on a boat. Where does Ben Garner stand in all this? Surely he is the experienced aide. Also don't think its as clean cut as "not knowing", clearly the guy at Boro knew he shouldn't have been doing what he did, and the story of the lad in Eastleigh kit for the Ipswich training smacks of knowing what they were doing was shady at least.

I also question whether any of this was going on before Tonda took over. Results under Still suggest that it wasn't but it seems strange that it all seems to have started with Tonda's promotion. Its a stupid thing to do, its absolutely clear that it is of no or at best minute benefit. So why do it. As 'arry says its just absolutely stupid. 

Last point, I'm not convinced (all of) the players are as squeaky clean as some would have us believe. It transpires that the data from these surveillance trips was used in the player briefings, surely some of the "senior" players should have smelled a rat, I can accept that the new transfers and those who have joined from abroad would probably not have known this was wrong. Conspiracy theory here but maybe Adam Armstrong knew too much?

In the end, its difficult to argue that Eckert didn't do a brilliant job, trying to make out it was largely due to the players has got to be revisionist thinking in the extreme. I bet in a few years Eckert will be doing well in the Bundesliga, or possibly around the German national team. 

[revolution saint]

Just now, bpsaint said:

Then those people aren’t living in the real world IMO.

 

I think it's something that can be considered and I don't think it's that outlandish a possibility to consider (if he doesn't get banned).  I certainly don't think people who do go down that route aren't living in the real world, that just smacks of being unable to understand an argument you don't agree with.

[Hawkswood]

11 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

I’m genuinely astounded people are saying Tonda either could stay, or should stay, like what planet are you on.

This bloke has committed gross misconduct, gross negligence, and has bought the club into major disrepute. This isn’t just about the £200 mill plus in tv money, think about the cost of this legal challenge, think about the sponsors exercising their right to pull out of their deals.

Honestly we’re not some small business with a handle of employees who might turn around and think “yeah ok he messed up we all make mistakes”, this is an internationally recognised brand that has suffered its most embarrassing moment in its 140 year history, and the ramifications will rumble on for years.

There is ZERO chance Tonda stays.

You see, the ramifications could rumble on for years absolutely but......I was  thinking about this whilst getting ready for work today. Look at the Trump administration. Think about how they've slipped out of all the catastrophes of the last few years and I just thought, well, they have a better PR machine then we do, but then I thought, what if we just follow his set of rules, which is essentially double down. So let's say the players do still want to play for him and he stays. Yes at the beginning there will be loads of abuse, but football fans have short memories. If he stays and the group stays we have solidity which means we wont slide into oblivion. The club backs him and says he made a mistake but he wants to put things right etc etc.  Ie, we double down on him, he ours and we'll protect him, create a siege mentality, us against the world. This is just hypothetical, but this approach could work in our favour.  If we get rid and start again and lose loads of players we could be in bigger trouble and the health of the club in that respect should come first. 

 

Anyway, its all hypothetical as I say.

Edited 3 hours ago by Hawkswood
.

[Toussaint]

Do we know for certain this is all Tonda's doing, that he was the head of the snake? 

[ally_uk]

Careful what you wish for boys....

Tonda was pretty decent to be fair 

[The Oggmonster]

Tonda is an absolute disgrace to our club and should be banned from football forever.

 

In terms of our next manager, I think we should go with someone like Bielsa.

[saintant]

6 hours ago, trousers said:

Alas, I think this is where we are, however....

Having said categorically yesterday that I think Tonda's position is untenable, I woke up this morning wondering if there was ANY scenario upon which Tonda could stay...

I then read Guan's post and thought: "hmm, ok, maybe there is such a scenario where he doesn't get the boot"....

I do get the train of thought that says: "who better to get us out of this mess than the man who has most to prove and rectify?"....

and then I start thinking: "what IF (big if) the FA don't ban him? Wouldn't that indicate that he didn't break the rules willfully and that he therefore deserves a chance to put things right?"

All that said, my gut feeling is that he still has to go.... And I suspect the FA will ban him anyway, so this is probably a moot discussion ... But...  there is also a small part of me that gets the argument to stick with him... (As you would expect from me, being fence-sitter-in-chief!)

So, is there any logic or merit in the club waiting for the FA's verdict or should they preempt that and get rid 'now', even if they think there a chance the FA might find him "not guilty" (of willfully breaking the rules)...?

 

City never sacked their goose that laid the golden eggs despite all the chicanery which he must have known about and been involved in. They just circled the waggons and ploughed on. Not saying that's what we should do. 

[AlexLaw76]

Got to love some Saints fans. Fuming at the club, calling everything a disgrace for what has happened, but want to keep the main central to this all, because he seems like a decent manager (who cheats)

[Zorba]

52 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

You could say he sucks 

He who lives by the sword, dyson the sword.

[saintwbu]

The reality is, if the situation allows (players happy, FA go easy) and the club think Tonda really is the real deal, then he would stay. This is football, it’s not the real world, an individual’s value dictates the consequences rather than the outrage - look at Suarez, Greenwood and plenty more. However the reality is that the players won’t be having him, the FA will ban him, and he will be sacked. I hope Spors stays, if you’re going to lose the manager then you don’t want to also lose the guy that has to pick the replacement, otherwise it’ll be a very long summer.

[Pilchards]

8 minutes ago, ally_uk said:

Careful what you wish for boys....

Tonda was pretty decent to be fair 

Yes he was decent but to move forward we have to leave the problem behind and rebuild.

Our reputation is ruined but at least we can move forward when he’s dismissed.

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

Its a mess, if he didn't know. Its so naive. Said earlier, where were the checks and balances?