#Spygate

[Toadhall Saint]

28 minutes ago, trousers said:

Nice try.... The regulation specifically refers to 'training sessions' though...  (Yes, I know you were probably being tongue-in-cheek )

Oh bollox ☝️ didn’t think of that 🤣

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

In my opinion it will boil down to whether we have been doing it all season or it was a one off.

Out of interest are Boro actually training? Might be worth popping down to their training ground.

[Toussaint]

So, I’ve just spent over £200 on 3 tickets, I’ll be spending a further £140 at least,  at 1.30 when the next allocation is released. So I will have spent nearly £350 on a game don’t even know is going ahead. This is not good for one’s state of mind. I think between the vitriol and uncertainty we have had to endure we have already been overly punished for a relatively minor transgression. 

[Jimmy_D]

It's quite funny how far out of proportion it's blown up. At the end of the day, after Leeds, the EFL added in a regulation to put in black and white to say 'yes, spying specifically counts as not acting in good faith', hence referring to the good faith rule (while also stating that following the 72 hour rule doesn't mean other actions can't be covered by the good faith rule.) It has exactly the same guidelines (ie. none, with the exact same range of sanctions available.)

The idea that it magically means the Leeds case doesn't act as any sort of precedent is silly, mostly brought about by Boro whipping up the press hoping to get a free pass to the final.

[Sheaf Saint]

31 minutes ago, trousers said:

Indeed... It's nowhere near our self inflicted points penalties at the start of  this season... 🙂

I mean, we basically gifted Hull 6 points by being so utterly abject in both those games.

If we hadn't done that, they wouldn't have even made the playoffs.

[egg]

5 minutes ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

In my opinion it will boil down to whether we have been doing it all season or it was a one off.

Out of interest are Boro actually training? Might be worth popping down to their training ground.

According to their local rag, they're going back next week. 

[Sheaf Saint]

6 minutes ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

In my opinion it will boil down to whether we have been doing it all season or it was a one off.

Out of interest are Boro actually training? Might be worth popping down to their training ground.

Perfectly acceptable, seeing as it's not within 72 hours of a match.

[Saint Pete]

3 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

I maintain that a points deduction, whatever it may be, over a 46 game season against inferior opposition in the Championship is not the same punishment as a points deduction over a 38 game season against superior opposition in the Premier League and I hope the club would appeal that. If we were deducted say 3-6 points in the Championship, we'd be able to make that back easily* over a 46 game season and still be in a position to challenge for promotion potentially. If we are deducted 3-6 points in the Premier League we'd probably be looking at certain relegation, even if we did pull off a season like Leeds or Sunderland are having.

*I say easily, and then there's Sheffield Wednesday.

I get what you are saying but I think I practice as the charge will have been proven for that to happen, the attitude will be "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime". But worth a try in atguing that I guess! 

[Willo of Whiteley]

Been on calls all morning, anything significant I’ve missed today?

[Whitey Grandad]

18 minutes ago, Bald Headed Jesus said:

Apparently EFL can recommend it to Premier League and up to them if they implement it

If the EPL doesn't have a similar rule then they might decline.

[egg]

1 minute ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Been on calls all morning, anything significant I’ve missed today?

Yeah, you can buy tickets. Nowt else. 

[S-Clarke]

3 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Been on calls all morning, anything significant I’ve missed today?

Boro went begging to be part of the parties around the table during the 'INDEPENENT' hearing (note Independent). 

And were then obviously denied.

Why they even had the gumption to ask to be included is more evidence to me that they are absolutely desperate.

Oh, and tickets are on sale.

Edited 8 hours ago by S-Clarke

[beatlesaint]

The only crime we have actually commited, as per their rules, I'm not talking morally here, is that we broke the 72 hours rule? Yes or No? 

[SNSUN]

Just now, Willo of Whiteley said:

Been on calls all morning, anything significant I’ve missed today?

Not really, but I have regularly been amusing myself by the deluded Boro fans on their forum over the last week days however today they are now utterly convinced that the hearing has already taken place and we will definitely be excluded from the play-offs (and have proof to that effect too) and so instead of being amused by them I am genuinely starting to worry about their mental health. Men in white coats stuff. I think a few virginities need to be taken. Maybe we should send Bonnie Blue up there.

[Patrick Bateman]

5 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Been on calls all morning, anything significant I’ve missed today?

Nope, buy your tickets, enjoy Wembley! Weather looks good on the 23rd too, bonus.

[Saint NL]

10 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

So I will have spent nearly £350 on a game don’t even know is going ahead. 

The game is going ahead, you might need to pretend to be a Boro fan though, so just wet your pants and you'll fit right in.

[aintforever]

1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

If the EPL doesn't have a similar rule then they might decline.

Also they might think that giving us a significant points deduction will make next season a bit of a farce. We might as well spend nothing, take a humping every week and use the Prem money to smash the Championship the following season.

[Toadhall Saint]

1 minute ago, beatlesaint said:

The only crime we have actually commited, as per their rules, I'm not talking morally here, is that we broke the 72 hours rule? Yes or No? 

Yes and by doing so broke rule 3.4 also

[Katalinic]

1 minute ago, beatlesaint said:

The only crime we have actually commited, as per their rules, I'm not talking morally here, is that we broke the 72 hours rule? Yes or No? 

Correct. I don't think thats a fact a lot of neutrals have grasped - they are frothing at the mouth at "spying" generally, which is of course fine outside of the 72 hour rule.

[beatlesaint]

Just now, Toadhall Saint said:

Yes and by doing so broke rule 3.4 also

Thats what I thought. Not exactly Death Row type crime is it ?

Stupid, un-necessary, morally wrong but in the scheme of things not Man City/Chelsea levels. 

[SNSUN]

1 minute ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Nope, buy your tickets, enjoy Wembley! Weather looks good on the 23rd too, bonus.

That's the spirit. 👍 Me and my cardboard cutout of Steve Gibson will be painting the town red that day for shizz.

[S-Clarke]

Another interesting angle here is that the EPL don't have this regulation, so this is purely an EFL regulation at this point and not wider global football or FIFA Level sanctions - so it's completely small fry, which is why expulsion and sporting sanctions just don't add up here. It will be a fine, maybe a bigger fine as a suspended fine, and potentially a sacking of a member of staff.

Do teams spy on each other in the PL? Maybe, there are probably inside men sharing bits. We've had loads of team sheets being leaked in the media, many examples of that. 

 

[beatlesaint]

1 minute ago, Katalinic said:

Correct. I don't think thats a fact a lot of neutrals have grasped - they are frothing at the mouth at "spying" generally, which is of course fine outside of the 72 hour rule.

I'm bloody sure most of these twats - yes inc James fkin Corden - definitely dont understand that bit.

[Dirkdiggler]

24 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cx2138g26dqo

 

The horse has left the stable

They’re write up is wrong still as Boro can’t appeal the decision 

[Toussaint]

2 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

The game is going ahead, you might need to pretend to be a Boro fan though, so just wet your pants and you'll fit right in.

Wet my pants, pull my front teeth out, put on 3 stone and find new levels of victim hood. 

[Football Special]

4 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Nope, buy your tickets, enjoy Wembley! Weather looks good on the 23rd too, bonus.

Nice, what are we talking? Factor 50 required?

[CylonKing]

10 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Been on calls all morning, anything significant I’ve missed today?

Announced that we will not be allowed to qualify for the Champions League next season regardless. 😉

[S-Clarke]

Just now, beatlesaint said:

I'm bloody sure most of these twats - yes inc James fkin Corden - definitely dont understand that bit.

It's just fake outrage really.  I still find it all quite funny, rather bemusingly funny really, and in a year or two the only left over piece of this charade will be Boro's new 'fake' rivalry with us.

[Patrick Bateman]

Just now, Football Special said:

Nice, what are we talking? Factor 50 required?

Nah. tops off, burnt red, no team colours required then

[Toadhall Saint]

1 minute ago, beatlesaint said:

Thats what I thought. Not exactly Death Row type crime is it ?

Stupid, un-necessary, morally wrong but in the scheme of things not Man City/Chelsea levels. 

I’d like to know how the 72 hours was decided. Personally not sure if it’s morally wrong given that most clubs do it (according to a post earlier in the us thread) and we now can live in the cesspool that us modern day football where money is king 

[Dirkdiggler]

Is it really spying or scouting? 

[CylonKing]

8 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Thats what I thought. Not exactly Death Row type crime is it ?

Stupid, un-necessary, morally wrong but in the scheme of things not Man City/Chelsea levels. 

It's not like we've tapped up a star defender from a rival team, secretly met up with them, got found out and just apologised and hoped everything would be fine. Then said defender effectively refuses to play for you so you have to sell them anyway. That would never happen in the world of football without sanctions would it!? 🤔

Edited 8 hours ago by CylonKing
Spelling

[RedArmy]

Just now, Dirkdiggler said:

Is it really spying or scouting? 

It’s spying. 

[Doctoroncall]

1 hour ago, Challenger said:

Said it before and I'll say it again, Southampton are a perfect club to be made an example of with a severe punishment. Big enough for all to notice, small enough that nobody cares.

 

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

That is my worry.

Southampton FC would appeal.
 

The punishment will need to reflect the rules broken given the evidence and circumstances, not regardless of the evidence.  

[Whitey Grandad]

4 minutes ago, Football Special said:

Nice, what are we talking? Factor 50 required?

Factor 72 at least.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, Dirkdiggler said:

Is it really spying or scouting? 

Within 72 hours it's spying. Otherwise it's scouting.

[Football Special]

1 minute ago, RedArmy said:

It’s spying. 

Its observing done in full view 

A spy would have at least tried not to be seen 

[DT]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

I'd be asking Man City's advice on how they managed to get some of their charges dropped so quickly...

They hired new lawyers overnight

😉

Fair point. My bad. Was fuming so much... !

[skintsaint]

34 minutes ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

In my opinion it will boil down to whether we have been doing it all season or it was a one off.

Don't think that matters in this, the charge is against us scouting Boro within 72 hours of a game.

[trousers]

Henry Winter just being interviewed on BBC News... Starts off by saying that we were caught spying "on Middlesbrough's private training ground"....

Technically, yes, but he gave the impression it wasn't 'publicly accessible'... 

Cheers Henry 👍🏻

 

Edited 7 hours ago by trousers

[Cabrone]

40 minutes ago, Bald Headed Jesus said:

500k fine and 3 point deduction. Boro get their “sporting sanction”, bigger fine than Leeds now it is an official rule, less than the 6 points Leicester got for more egregious behaviour.

Yes that's around what I think it will be.

Yes the club screwed up and deserves some punishment but Leicester committed a far more serious offence and got 6 points. The precedence has already been set.

This all presumes it's a one off. If Boro manage to convince the EFL that it's systemic then we will be kicked very, very hard and someone at the club needs to take responsibility. Can't see it though, CCTV footage tends to be overwritten quickly and how many other clubs have sailed close to the wind on this?

That all said Boro have really pissed me off during all this, acting like a bunch of whiney victim schoolgirls.

They should have made their case to the EFL and shut their mouths, they have stirred a media shit storm and us fans have had to deal with it.

Whatever happens, Boro should not prosper from this, they lost, deal with it.

[Saint NL]

10 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Within 72 hours it's spying. Otherwise it's scouting.

I think we should rename it Spouting.

Seems apt.

[badgerx16]

TalkShite going on about the possible outcomes; award Boro a 3-0 win for the first leg, or give them a bye to the final.

Edited 7 hours ago by badgerx16

[SNSUN]

13 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Nah. tops off, burnt red, no team colours required then

That graph represents the Boro fans belief that they will get into the play-off final. It peaks just as the verdict is announced that the game is going ahead as is.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, Saint NL said:

I think we should rename it Spouting.

Seems apt.

Or Crying.

[Lord Duckhunter]

16 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

I’d like to know how the 72 hours was decided. Personally not sure if it’s morally wrong given that most clubs do it (according to a post earlier in the us thread) and we now can live in the cesspool that us modern day football where money is king 

Because that’s when most teams work on their shape & set pieces with the  players who are starting the game. 

[sockeye]

Seems like the “spying” is a standard practice at many clubs which is generally accepted as a gentleman’s agreement for X Y Z reason. Gibson, frustrated at Boro’s crap end to the season and/or not understanding this gentleman’s agreement has decided to pursue a charge to try and get Boro to the PL by any means necessary/to punish us out of jealousy.

 

that’s how I see it

[badgerx16]

2 minutes ago, Cabrone said:

Whatever happens, Boro should not prosper from this, they lost, deal with it.

Abso-fucking-lutely

[manji]

If the EFL take any extreme action let’s not forget Dragan Šolak. He just loves litigation. He won a huge court case in London last year at has been in continual battle with Russian backed President Vucic who even accused Dragan of trying to kill him. 
He was also involved in a legal battle in AmsterdamThe Balkans including Turkey and Greece is the only part of Europe that is doing well he’s a major shareholder of United Group the biggest comms business in the area. 
The Premier League is like a soft power asset ,people in that area watch it obsessively that’s why Dragan wants Southampton in the PL he has plans in the pipeline to expand St Mary’s. 
Gibson is a speck compared to Solak.

As someone else mentioned the World Cup coming up which is surrounded by enough controversy.
 

 

 

 

[Stripey McStripe Shirt]

Do we think any clubs adapt their approach to training specifically because of this rule?

I.e. is the norm for any match day specific tactical training to only ever take place in the 3 days leading up to a game? Seems unlikely.