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Posted
8 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

Agreed, some people seem to think the 2 CM roles are interchangeable. I don't like all these new fangled descriptions but if we have to use them Charles and Jander are 8s, Downes, JWP and Cam Bragg are 6s.

JWP is not a 6. WHU fans bemoaned the fact he was moved into the 6 role in his second season and never looked effective for them. His first excellent season for them was in an 8 role.

  • Like 4
Posted
2 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

JWP is not a 6. WHU fans bemoaned the fact he was moved into the 6 role in his second season and never looked effective for them. His first excellent season for them was in an 8 role.

I said I hate these descriptions. I don't really give a monkeys whether his first "excellent season" for them was in an "8 role" or what Wet Spam fans think, JWP has never and will never provide the same midfield role as Shea Charles or Casper Jander.

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Posted
Just now, VectisSaint said:

I said I hate these descriptions. I don't really give a monkeys whether his first "excellent season" for them was in an "8 role" or what Wet Spam fans think, JWP has never and will never provide the same midfield role as Shea Charles or Casper Jander.

You also said "I don't like all these new fangled descriptions but if we have to use them..."

So if you're going to use these silly categories, you're wrong. JWP plays a more advanced role and that's how he's capable of getting goals and assists like he was getting at West Ham.

  • Like 4
Posted
2 hours ago, Chez said:

Good point. They had Murrillo and Milenkovic, then spent £40m on Diomande. They have a couple of young Brazilians Cunha and Morata. I guess they dont need a CB that can play RB as they have two fit/very good right backs now. 

Morata possibly joining West Ham. Forest must be signing a CB

Posted
14 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

JWP is a fine replacement for Charles. There's a bit of misremembering going on - Charles was in and out of the team last season, he wasn't a nailed on starter. He also only scored 4 goals and got 2 assists - I'd be happy to predict now that JWP will get at least double both of those figures.

I think you're right, but there's another angle. We naturally tend to focus on active contributions on the ball, but some of the off the ball stuff is just as important. On Saturday, JWP's game reading and smarts were on show. Several times he read Manning's forays up the left and dropped in to cover for him. That took away one of our key vulnerabilities - Manning's damaging tendency to over-commit and not get back in time. In those moments JWP made us a better team without even touching the ball.

  • Like 29
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, CanadaSaint said:

I think you're right, but there's another angle. We naturally tend to focus on active contributions on the ball, but some of the off the ball stuff is just as important. On Saturday, JWP's game reading and smarts were on show. Several times he read Manning's forays up the left and dropped in to cover for him. That took away one of our key vulnerabilities - Manning's damaging tendency to over-commit and not get back in time. In those moments JWP made us a better team without even touching the ball.

Well made points. We are going to used his various attributes however we best can, and I expect that quite often to be in a deeper role. 
I think Tonda was though  quoted as saying that he has been brought in to increase goal threat from MF, and these stats show why he thinks that is possible : ( see #25) 
 

https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask?q=most+goals+and+assists+for+midfielders+in+the+premier+league+all-time

Edited by Teamsaint1
  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

Come to see if the bedwetting was as rife here as on twitter. Fortunately things seem a bit more level headed.

Abbott seems a sensible signing to me, provides good cover for Breezy if needed (I think we're much lighter here than CB)

And given we just dicked Millwall 5-1 with Wood and Schlotterbeck I'd be surprised to see him as a nailed on starter.

Reading comments from Forrest fans and they've all been very positive. Happy to see what he can bring.

I do think we may well go back in for Falchner too, especially if we've managed to turn his head.

Edited by Hopper
  • Like 2
Posted

Like so many of our SR transfer windows, this one has plenty of issues.

We’ve got reduced parachute payments; SR balancing the books and looking to maximise player sale prices where possible; possible personal fallout from last season’s failed promotion; players wanting to step up, even more because we didn’t go up.

The squad were very poor under Still but were on a great run under Tonda. We’ve seen the players at both ends of their form.

With the disappointing end to last season, Tonda has to keep them towards their best. All while other teams have strengthened, we’ve got new relegated teams with their own parachute payments, and opponents are used to our set up.

Looking at the personnel starting this season, compared to last:-

GK – Securing Peretz has been excellent business. Ramsdale will surely not want to be back up here, so still expect a loan move before the end of the window. That would leave ourselves needing a replacement, with Long being here primarily for the numbers. Improvement over start of 25/26.

DR – With Suga looking likely to leave on loan, we still have Bree, whose return form loan made a big difference last season, and Mads as back up, now that he’s fit. Improvement over start of 25/26.

DL – Manning came into a good run of form under Tonda. Finally looking like the player who did well at Swansea. A lot will depend on the defence around him. Welington is very capable backup/ pressure on his place. Larios looks likely to leave. Same as 25/26.

DC – Last season, we were thinking one of Wood, Edwards or Quarshie would supplant Stephens as THB’s partner. Now THB is leaving, Edwards already sold and Quarshie off on loan. Decent debut for Schlotterbeck, if too early to call. Weaker than 25/26.

MC – Charles scored some important goals, and was an excellent, cool-headed option mainly from the bench. But if JWP’s fitness is anywhere near what we all remember, we’ve got one of our better players from our first season back in the Championship.  It’s a test for Tonda to now manage the playing expectations of Jander, Downes and JWP. Bragg also improved last season. Improvement over start of 25/26.

AML – Scienza was a late addition to the squad last season (along with Azaz and Fellows). While he can fade, Edozie gets yet another opportunity to push on. More so, with the absence of Robinson or AA dropping back from up front. The roles are a bit clearer, this season. Same as 25/26.

AMR – Fraser was here at the start of last season, but his form had dropped markedly. I thought Fellows started with intent, before being put out of position. Matsuki’s work rate always impressed, but his skill improved with playing time. Tonda has a job to get the best balance in the side to compliment Scienza taking the ball on for shots on the left. A natural choice would be Fellows, but some improvement needed to keep Matsuki out. Same as 25/26.

AMC – SR have brought in Dobbin to support Azaz in this position, filling a gap left by Aribo and Matsuki filling in. The jury is out on whether AMC is really Dobbin’s best position. Perhaps he’s considered to be versatile to fill in across the midfield, perhaps losing some of Azaz’s qualities as a result. Improvement over start of 25/26.

FC – SR singed Damion Downs to lead the line in place of the injury hit Stwart. Larin’s loan, like Peretz and Bree’s return, made a difference. Securing him is an immediate improvement. We’ve also added Mubama on loan. Archer looked decent recently, although still stuck in a system that doesn’t suit him. Improvement over start of 25/26.

The main area of concern is central defence. And only as THB is just about to leave. Otherwise, we’ve improved in 5 areas and have the same players in the other 3

(Central defence and central midfield each covering 2 players, in case you were expecting it to add up to 11)

 

All that said, the main question is whether the squad is better than the one that ended the season on such a good run.

Charles is ably replaced by JWP. A getting fit Stewart rotated well with a getting up to speed Larin. But now that Larin is sharp, having a reliably fit back up in Mubama is a plus. Although Stewart was sharp, when fit.

Central defence is the issue. We could really have done with a new partner for THB. With him gone, we could now do with a replacement for him.

We’ve more retained the strength from the end of last season, rather than pushing any boats out to greatly improve on what we had.

  • Like 2
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

THB is nowhere near our best player.

Really does have to be said.. he's okay defensively, better than Stephens and wood, and happens to be very good at offensive set pieces (if bang average at defending them), he also gets bullied by physical attackers and isn't particularly fast.

I think it's mad how people are so traumatised at losing him. He was dog awful for 75% of the last 2 seasons. 

Needs to be reiterated, we were always likely to lose 2 of our best players as a minimum... I picked Charles and THB right at the start of the summer, and to get £60M for two luxury players in the champ is good businesses... Everyone wetting the bed should instead be bloody grateful it's not Peretz, Larin, azaz, scienza, Jander, or downes we've lost... Because they are all more critical to this side winning than THB.

No team in the 2nd tier needs a £20M CB, let alone a £30M one.

We've got 3 solid CBs on the books as it is, and the young forest lad is a good player and prospect (I'm actually really surprised that basically no one on here as even heard of him!).

They'd likely all start for most championship sides... I think people are forgetting just how good our team is for this league - we will waltz into the playoffs - and if this means we don't overpay and keep money available to strengthen where needed in January, then so be it 🤷.

Teams evolve.... We are already in better shape than we were at the start of last season under Still. We are going up. And I for one and looking forward to abbot and schlotterbeck becoming the starting CB pairing for us 😎

Edited by Saint86
  • Like 7
  • Confused 2
Posted
11 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Like so many of our SR transfer windows, this one has plenty of issues.

 

We’ve got reduced parachute payments; SR balancing the books and looking to maximise player sale prices where possible; possible personal fallout from last season’s failed promotion; players wanting to step up, even more because we didn’t go up.

 

The squad were very poor under Still but were on a great run under Tonda. We’ve seen the players at both ends of their form.

 

With the disappointing end to last season, Tonda has to keep them towards their best. All while other teams have strengthened, we’ve got new relegated teams with their own parachute payments, and opponents are used to our set up.

Looking at the personnel starting this season, compared to last:-

 

GK – Securing Peretz has been excellent business. Ramsdale will surely not want to be back up here, so still expect a loan move before the end of the window. That would leave ourselves needing a replacement, with Long being here primarily for the numbers. Improvement over start of 25/26.

DR – With Suga looking likely to leave on loan, we still have Bree, whose return form loan made a big difference last season, and Mads as back up, now that he’s fit. Improvement over start of 25/26.

DL – Manning came into a good run of form under Tonda. Finally looking like the player who did well at Swansea. A lot will depend on the defence around him. Welington is very capable backup/ pressure on his place. Larios looks likely to leave. Same as 25/26.

DC – Last season, we were thinking one of Wood, Edwards or Quarshie would supplant Stephens as THB’s partner. Now THB is leaving, Edwards already sold and Quarshie off on loan. Decent debut for Schlotterbeck, if too early to call. Weaker than 25/26.

MC – Charles scored some important goals, and was an excellent, cool-headed option mainly from the bench. But if JWP’s fitness is anywhere near what we all remember, we’ve got one of our better players from our first season back in the Championship.  It’s a test for Tonda to now manage the playing expectations of Jander, Downes and JWP. Bragg also improved last season. Improvement over start of 25/26.

 

AML – Scienza was a late addition to the squad last season (along with Azaz and Fellows). While he can fade, Edozie gets yet another opportunity to push on. More so, with the absence of Robinson or AA dropping back from up front. The roles are a bit clearer, this season. Same as 25/26.

AMR – Fraser was here at the start of last season, but his form had dropped markedly. I thought Fellows started with intent, before being put out of position. Matsuki’s work rate always impressed, but his skill improved with playing time. Tonda has a job to get the best balance in the side to compliment Scienza taking the ball on for shots on the left. A natural choice would be Fellows, but some improvement needed to keep Matsuki out. Same as 25/26.

AMC – SR have brought in Dobbin to support Azaz in this position, filling a gap left by Aribo and Matsuki filling in. The jury is out on whether AMC is really Dobbin’s best position. Perhaps he’s considered to be versatile to fill in across the midfield, perhaps losing some of Azaz’s qualities as a result. Improvement over start of 25/26.

FC – SR singed Damion Downs to lead the line in place of the injury hit Stwart. Larin’s loan, like Peretz and Bree’s return, made a difference. Securing him is an immediate improvement. We’ve also added Mubama on loan. Archer looked decent recently, although still stuck in a system that doesn’t suit him. Improvement over start of 25/26.

 

The main area of concern is central defence. And only as THB is just about to leave. Otherwise, we’ve improved in 5 areas and have the same players in the other 3

(Central defence and central midfield each covering 2 players, in case you were expecting it to add up to 11)

 

 

All that said, the main question is whether the squad is better than the one that ended the season on such a good run.

Charles is ably replaced by JWP. A getting fit Stewart rotated well with a getting up to speed Larin. But now that Larin is sharp, having a reliably fit back up in Mubama is a plus. Although Stewart was sharp, when fit.

Central defence is the issue. We could really have done with a new partner for THB. With him gone, we could now do with a replacement for him.

 

We’ve more retained the strength from the end of last season, rather than pushing any boats out to greatly improve on what we had.

Probably quite sensible and worth waiting 'till we've seen all the players play a few games before passing judgement but on the face of it, it feels like we're weaker than at the end of last season.  JWP may well turn out to be a shrewd signing but I'd rather have Charles in the squad so on that basis, weaker. Appreciate very difficult to replace a 30M player and maybe unrealistic to expect it. 
Dobbin as Azaz cover, yeah, in an ideal world then it's nice to have but 9M seems a lot for a player that so far looks exactly like Archer.  He did get a lot of "goal involvements" last season so maybe he shines later on but so far he hasn't really stood out for me.
Mubama on loan or Stewart?  Stewart every day of the week for me.  Mubama will probably have a blinding season now and score shedloads.
Central defence is a hard one, the German lad looked pretty good but potentially replacing THB with a kid who's played 13 games of senior football is a massive gamble.  Sounds like he wasn't our preferred option either so looks like Spors and the recruitment team agree on that.  Might be the most pragmatic or sensible thing to do if finances are tight but as strong as or stronger in that area?  Probably not.
I did honestly think we'd replace THB and Charles with better but I guess we'll have to trust Spors and Tonda and see how it goes.

  • Like 4
Posted
8 hours ago, Pat from Poole said:

What’s the latest on Solly March?

Take the offer for Edozie, sign March and use the profit on a striker.

Bosh.

He went to my son's school (as did Dan Harding actually), bit of a local celeb down here 😂

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

 

I've got a mate who lives there and watches them occasionally, will follow his progress. 

Surely with Downs, Stewart, BBD, Oyekunl gone and Archer likely to go today theres room for another incoming striker 

Anyone got a link for all the championship transfers this summer? 

Edited by Football Special
Posted
5 minutes ago, SaintsFan86 said:

Ramsdale/ Archer out..

GK, Falchaner and a forward in, thats my gut feeling. 

Knowing Saints though, Nothing will happen.

Feels pretty obvious that Falchaner is not coming.

Maybe a last minute second keeper and maybe a loan striker. Plus this child from Forest announced.

  • Confused 1
Posted

Abbott in as Bree cover and to replace stephens (wood?) from next summer if it works out

Falchener as THB replacement

3rd choice keeper from the national league

Wildcard forward / winger Dragan special like scienza

Reality - the kid and the lower league keeper !

  • Like 1
Posted

Expectations for deadline day.

Outs

Ramsdale - Loan to a European team

Sugawara - Loan as per previous reports 

Archer - Loan to another championship team

Edozie - Sold for small fee

Downs - as per

 

In

'Keeper - sign young -ish understudy to Peretz

Centre Back - either the big Norwegian or the Forest player

Winger - Loan from premier league team

Striker - Unexpected signing

 

Posted
18 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

Absolute meltdown on here if he chooses Millwall over us 🤣

There shouldn’t be based upon the reaction of most last night when his name was first mentioned.

Posted
8 hours ago, Teamsaint1 said:

Well made points. We are going to used his various attributes however we best can, and I expect that quite often to be in a deeper role. 
I think Tonda was though  quoted as saying that he has been brought in to increase goal threat from MF, and these stats show why he thinks that is possible : ( see #25) 
 

https://www.statmuse.com/fc/ask?q=most+goals+and+assists+for+midfielders+in+the+premier+league+all-time

Number 6 is interesting. Wonder what those figures would have been in a better team or if all the minutes played was equalised?

Posted
40 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

Thanks, some interesting net spend calculations there. 

Wolves have done well i think, look well set. 

West Ham win the net spend trophy, selling Fernandes for that fee was incredible really, need to add our sell % into our net spend ratio. 

Middlesbrough have done very nicely out of the Rogers sell on , spent well in my opinion. 

Stoke big spenders , will be disappointed with their start 

Posted
8 hours ago, Saint86 said:

Really does have to be said.. he's okay defensively, better than Stephens and wood, and happens to be very good at offensive set pieces (if bang average at defending them), he also gets bullied by physical attackers and isn't particularly fast.

I think it's mad how people are so traumatised at losing him. He was dog awful for 75% of the last 2 seasons. 

Needs to be reiterated, we were always likely to lose 2 of our best players as a minimum... I picked Charles and THB right at the start of the summer, and to get £60M for two luxury players in the champ is good businesses... Everyone wetting the bed should instead be bloody grateful it's not Peretz, Larin, azaz, scienza, Jander, or downes we've lost... Because they are all more critical to this side winning than THB.

No team in the 2nd tier needs a £20M CB, let alone a £30M one.

We've got 3 solid CBs on the books as it is, and the young forest lad is a good player and prospect (I'm actually really surprised that basically no one on here as even heard of him!).

They'd likely all start for most championship sides... I think people are forgetting just how good our team is for this league - we will waltz into the playoffs - and if this means we don't overpay and keep money available to strengthen where needed in January, then so be it 🤷.

Teams evolve.... We are already in better shape than we were at the start of last season under Still. We are going up. And I for one and looking forward to abbot and schlotterbeck becoming the starting CB pairing for us 😎

I think this is arrogant. You did see us against a third string West Ham last week? 

  • Like 1
Posted

Yeah, can't begrudge Edozie there. It's a shame he got that injury in the Martin season as it could have been his breakthrough year. 

  • Like 2
Posted

Yep, he will have been pissed off that we turned down those £4m offers for him from abroad as reported yesterday. Fair play that the lad just wants to be on the pitch now. 

  • Like 3
Posted
8 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

 

Hate to break it to him but he’s never been good enough.

Agree with him that a footballers career is short.

Also find it ironic how he’s deleted his previous posts about “I’m ready for next season”. 

Hypocritical nob. Get rid.

  • Haha 2
Posted

Final year of Edozie's contract now anyway (geez has it really been 4 years already?) so the club should really be doing what they can to sell him anyway.

Unless he was silly enough to have an extension written in.

  • Like 2
Posted
14 minutes ago, trousers said:

Apologies if already posted...

 

HRHUS9oW0AAUtwV.jpg

I think that's a fair enough statement - he wants to play, he's only got a year left, he barely figures, we should just let him go.  I presume the 50% number is the starting point and most settle on 20% or similar.

But get it done Saints.

  • Like 4
Posted

How does that change things? We can sell him now without paying him a loyalty payment ? 

I'm fairly sure the club are willing to sell him but doesn't seem like other clubs are willing to pay the asking price. 

Hopefully someone does today and he can move on 

  • Like 1
Posted
20 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

fair enough from sam edozie

 

Exactly he has no future here or only gets occasional game time . 
Some fans forget these are human beings with feelings and it’s their life and career not just noddies on a forum.

Hope he gets the move he wants.

  • Like 8
Posted
7 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

I think that's a fair enough statement - he wants to play, he's only got a year left, he barely figures, we should just let him go.  I presume the 50% number is the starting point and most settle on 20% or similar.

But get it done Saints.

Although Sam seems unable to pass ....or shoot, he can beat a man and draws fouls, so with Manning and now JWP I thought he would be worth hanging on to. But I understand his point of view.

Posted
25 minutes ago, trousers said:

Apologies if already posted...

 

HRHUS9oW0AAUtwV.jpg

Fair enough really. Im not a fan of his but he needs and wants to play which isnt happening here. Other clubs want him the offer we got seemed reasonable enough to me. 

 

 

  • Like 2
Posted

Edozie says that Saints are asking for 50% of any future sell on fee, assume he means profit? Bit of a piss take by Saints tbf, it would clear up why all those potential transfer to Belgium etc fell through.

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