CORTESE - a personal and factual view of why Ms Liebherr was right.

[Real-Saints-Wear-Stripes]

It's not just the refusal to sell FFS book that cost the Liebherrs money, the constant settled court cases, the dodgy signings (£35m of Katarinas money wasted) etc etc. So she rightfully asks for proper governance and oversight, and NC bolts for the door !!!!

It wasn't his money, it wasn't his club, but he never understood that.

 

Much, much better off without him.

Well done Katarina.

[Raging Bull]

Because of course every signing comes off doesn't it!

[Mr X]

Because of course every signing comes off doesn't it!

No they dont you are of course right but when you have more than two or three signings that don't perform it can become a problem

[docker-p]

In summary yes cortese was an egotistical dictator but he made things happen and moved the club up a level he didn't just sit around and make excuses like some chairmen he had real ambitions for the club and though they were perceived as unrealistic he definitely had the drive and stubborness to succeed! SFC will continue but whatever way you look at it its a huge loss in my opinion.

 

Aren't all success full businessmen flawed? They either have tremendous business acumen and no people skills ala Cortese or vice versa or some other compromise!

But he wasn't even a good businessman. If he was such a good businessman he would have borrowed the £14m to buy the club himself and be cashing in his investment now for upwards of £150m. He didn't, Katarina will be; he'll walk away with f-all. Genius.

[swannymere]

This is beneath you Duncan, why stoop to this level.

[Wurzel]

But he wasn't even a good businessman. If he was such a good businessman he would have borrowed the £14m to buy the club himself and be cashing in his investment now for upwards of £150m. He didn't, Katarina will be; he'll walk away with f-all. Genius.

 

Good point, but to be fair, at the time we were for sale I doubt any financial institution would have lent 14p let alone £14m to buy a 3rd division football club. His only option was to find someone with the readies available.

[RobM]

Whilst I find it hard to argue with the example in your OP, Duncan, it would be wise and fair to consider that example alongside the money Cortese's leadership approach has made. He led the club to our current position, which has had a financial reward for sure, not least in the sale value of the club increasing significantly since Marcus bought it.

 

So I accept he may restrict income at times (sponsorship deals were also mentioned to be 'difficult') but he has also made a small fortune with the very same approach. Player sales, for instance, are famously higher than expected due to his decisions and negotiation.

[Mr X]

But he wasn't even a good businessman. If he was such a good businessman he would have borrowed the £14m to buy the club himself and be cashing in his investment now for upwards of £150m. He didn't, Katarina will be; he'll walk away with f-all. Genius.

 

He was an employee of his friend and our saviour Markus do you think he thought oh the old gits passed away quick here's my opportunity! He would have known the next inline of the liebherrs would inherit the club. Even a banker of Corteses standing would surely struggle to get a 14 million loan single handedly

[CB Fry]

How much money has he lost the club with loss of shirt sales? If I owned the club I would question decisions like these and would want some input. He's done a brilliant job, but he was far from perfect.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Personal favourite: the away kit we could only wear at one away match.

 

Runner up: Utterly invisible Sponsors logo on home kit.

 

But yeah. The greatest businessman to ever wear trousers.

[benjii]

Liebherr's have invested about 50 mill at least.

 

The purchase price plus 33mill loans converted to equity (effectively written off when you are the sole owner).

 

Yeah, Cortese should've just popped down the bank and asked for 50mill for a high- risk football investment.

 

FACEPALM

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Snippet from The Mail today:

'Cortese, who intends to return to St Mary's as chairman of another Barclays Premier League club, faces a massive compensation battle with Liebherr.'

 

Maybe he'll ban our players from his new club's ground, it would be a good way of guaranteeing a win

[Special K]

I wonder if NC will continue to provide the catering at SMS now? His company, St Marys Catering Ltd turned in a very healthy £2.872m turnover with pre tax profits of £488k in the last set of accounts. Some cynical types might suggest this is not bad dough if one is, hypothetically, in charge of providing contracts and agreeing to prices between parties where there is a common owner. Of course i wouldn't dare suggest this, just merely speculating. Those same people may also want to extend the view that a request for accountability as being a fair and reasonable request.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Some of the newspaper reporting and sucking up to cortese has been sickening the past few days. A life long friend who works in the press is always telling me how difficult the club is to deal with and how unreasonable cortese can be. He said its well known within press circles, and yet the story of "meltdown" seems to have over ridden any attempt at serious reporting and analysis. Like Nigel Adkins departure only time will tell if this works out in our favour,so we need to suspend judgement.

 

From a personal perspective, I've lost a bit of respect and admiration for MP, his apparent devotion to NC grates a bit. He is not doing us a favour by staying on and I hope any drop off in his performance or "going through the motions" will result in a boot out the door. He is not the only young manager about that plays good stuff and uses the kids. All of a sudden Nicola has become the greatest CEO to walk the earth and MP has morphed into arsene Wenger if you believe the media.

[Chez]

Long term, I think Lowe's influence on the club was more fundamental and given the money available to NC, Lowe and Cowen could have achieved as much, but that won't sit well with the class warriors on this site.

 

Funny, I was looking from my seat in the Kingsland last week at the number of empty boxes opposite me and thought about the period under Lowe which, from my poor memory, saw them pretty much all sold out during our previous time in the top flight.

 

Perhaps the total income is actually higher now than it was then through much higher prices, I don't know, but it made me wonder as to who set the pricing and why they are not all sold out.

 

Lowe's hands were tied by the listing on so many things, but when it came to his customers, be they sponsors, box holders or season tickets holders he treated them well from my recollection. Having said that perhaps the lack box holders is just down to the economic situation we are in!

[Window Cleaner]

I wonder if NC will continue to provide the catering at SMS now? His company, St Marys Catering Ltd turned in a very healthy £2.872m turnover with pre tax profits of £488k in the last set of accounts. Some cynical types might suggest this is not bad dough if one is, hypothetically, in charge of providing contracts and agreeing to prices between parties where there is a common owner. Of course i wouldn't dare suggest this, just merely speculating. Those same people may also want to extend the view that a request for accountability as being a fair and reasonable request.

 

 

Isn't that just a wholly owned subsidary of DMSWL 613 Ltd (or whatever it is) ?

[Whitey Grandad]

Funny, I was looking from my seat in the Kingsland last week at the number of empty boxes opposite me and thought about the period under Lowe which, from my poor memory, saw them pretty much all sold out during our previous time in the top flight.

 

Perhaps the total income is actually higher now than it was then through much higher prices, I don't know, but it made me wonder as to who set the pricing and why they are not all sold out.

 

Lowe's hands were tied by the listing on so many things, but when it came to his customers, be they sponsors, box holders or season tickets holders he treated them well from my recollection. Having said that perhaps the lack box holders is just down to the economic situation we are in!

 

I was talking a year or so ago to somebody who used to have a box all through the lower leagues. As soon as we got promoted to the Premier the prices rocketed so he complained and was dismissed out of hand by Cortese. He told him where to get off and didn't renew.

[monosaint]

Let's see if the likes of Alan Pardew and Nigel Adkins come out with some truths about what really happened to them.

[Frank's cousin]

Jeez - see the usual suspects have returened to bash one out gleefully over NC departure... There are many advantages to having more folk on the board, there are many nice advantages to a lovely harmonious democratic board... wonderful, idealistic and tinged with a nostalgic air of community based clubs with the fans the very soul - and all that romantic rhetoric.

 

BUT there are also disadvantages - big ones, with factions, splits, disharmoy slpiting the fan based etc... all of which is is more recently embedded in our memories than the 'wonderful' harmony that some on this thread seem to naivly expect.

 

We have progressed at a rapid pace these last few years not just because of money - there are many clubs in the CCC who have money, spent more than us and still cant get out - or if they do, go back down... our rapid progress was down to a the drive and shear bloody mindedness of NC and of convincing many to believe we can acheive more than the traditional old guard establishment think is possible in the modern era. What happens next? Accountabilty? I suspect that NC's view is that in order to achieve what he set out to he needs that full authority - and that Marcus may have given/promised him that - if the conditions of his employment are forced to cahnge, then he has the right to resign as he believed his position becomes untenable.

 

Yes it woudl be great if they could have worked something out and worked together - but success and rapid growth is never built on compromise and I suspect NC knows this. Are those now happy he is gone, ready for the challenge to raise 150mil from fans to finally relaise their dreams? or are they like the rest of us concerned about what we might end up with following any future sale - leaverged buy outs... debt burdens and 'fan' owners without a clue repeating mistakes of the past....

[Window Cleaner]

Let's see if the likes of Alan Pardew and Nigel Adkins come out with some truths about what really happened to them.

 

 

well they won't will they, their contracts were with the club as would be any non-disclosure clauses. The fact that one bloke leaves just changes nothing in that respect.

[sunrise]

Honestly, who cares? We have sod-all say in who runs the club anyway, that is unless you happen to have a few hundred million lying around. Cortese is gone and that's that, let's forget about him and move on.

[badgerx16]

Two, in fact. From the BBC-

 

"But Cortese, who disagrees with Katharina Liebherr's wish to sell the club, submitted his resignation almost three months ago, when Southampton were third in the Premier League."

 

KL is perfectly entitled to sell her company if she so wishes. Surely NC would have been better off working through such a situation, helping get the best deal for his 'project', and getting a payoff from the new owners if deemed to be surplus to requirements. ( Assuming the premise of the quote is true ).

[solentstars]

Funny, I was looking from my seat in the Kingsland last week at the number of empty boxes opposite me and thought about the period under Lowe which, from my poor memory, saw them pretty much all sold out during our previous time in the top flight.

 

Perhaps the total income is actually higher now than it was then through much higher prices, I don't know, but it made me wonder as to who set the pricing and why they are not all sold out.

 

Lowe's hands were tied by the listing on so many things, but when it came to his customers, be they sponsors, box holders or season tickets holders he treated them well from my recollection. Having said that perhaps the lack box holders is just down to the economic situation we are in!

no its been like that since the control freak was in charge ,not good for the clubs business and loss of income.he was good on the sports side of the business but useless on the business side hopefully the leibhers will put someone in charge of that side of the business to grow the club income.

[trousers]

We have progressed at a rapid pace these last few years not just because of money - there are many clubs in the CCC who have money' date=' spent more than us and still cant get out - or if they do, go back down... our rapid progress was down to a the drive and shear bloody mindedness of NC and of convincing many to believe we can acheive more than the traditional old guard establishment think is possible in the modern era. What happens next? Accountabilty? I suspect that NC's view is that in order to achieve what he set out to he needs that full authority - and that Marcus may have given/promised him that[/quote']

 

[angelman]

I do note that he never had anyone either side of him (or never does when I bother to look)

[Window Cleaner]

I do note that he never had anyone either side of him (or never does when I bother to look)

 

 

probably in case they farted during the game.

[aintforever]

 

Ted Bates achieved plenty, lots of people liked him too.

[trousers]

Ted Bates achieved plenty, lots of people liked him too.

 

Fair point. I'm just trying to slightly annoy FF as I know how much he admired the great lady...

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Fair point. I'm just trying to slightly annoy FF as I know how much he admired the great lady...

 

slightly annoy?

[trousers]

.

slightly annoy?

 

[shurlock]

More up FF's street

 

 

You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs

 

(credited to the man)

[trousers]

More up FF's street

 

 

 

Graham Gooch or the chap in the foreground?

[once_bitterne]

I'm sure with FF's track record he'll fall out with the new CEO sooner rather than later......

 

------------------------------------------------

 

19th June 2006 My name is Duncan Holley, Some of you might recognise me from the fact that I have co-written a number of books on the Saints, commencing with the 'Complete Record' in 1987 and culminating with 'In That Number' in 2003. In the mid 90's, in recognition of my research into the history of the Saints, the club conferred on me the title of official historian. I was honoured but also pleased because it showed the club cared about its past, recognised its heritage but also acknowledged the importance of establishing the true facts and statistics of how we had progressed to where we are. Brian Truscott, the then secretary, was then very helpful in ensuring I was given the title. When Rupert Lowe arrived as chairman, nothing changed and indeed when the new ground at St Marys was announced I wrote to Rupert Lowe, introducing myself and suggesting some sort of room might be put aside for some sort of museum in the new ground. I did not get a reply. Despite this I had no real problem with Rupert Lowe as our chairman. I recognised we could not grow without becoming a PLC and, despite the misgivings over the reverse takeover, I confess to being fickle enough to put that to one side once I realised, at long last, we might actually have a new ground to be proud of. I also thought Rupert Lowe did the right thing by putting David Jones on gardening leave, as hard as it must have been to make such a decision. I also approved of his stance in attempting to open the debate towards bringing back small areas of standing into Premiership grounds, and wrote to him applaud his efforts. I certainly had no preconceptions about the man as far as his background or lack of a football pedigree was concerned. However, around the time of Sturrock's removal I started to have reservations (I still don't quite believe the whole truth re Strachan has yet come out) and when Steve Wigley was appointed those reservations became very real concerns that Rupert Lowe was meddling in areas he shouldn't. I started to watch very closely everything he said and did and before long became fearfully convinced he was actually making footballing decisions, acting in a manner almost as if he was the manager and could do no wrong. Alarm bells started to ring. At the end of October 2004 there appeared an article written by ex-manager Stuart Gray, in the Echo, which made allegations that confirmed my fears, as well as adding to them. Within 24 hours the Official Site wrote a particularly nasty article pouring scorn on and dismissing Gray's words, which I considered unsatisfactory. I wrote to Rupert Lowe expressing my feelings and asking him to answer Gray's allegations properly, as in my mind, the fans needed to know if they were true. (The allegations involved amongst other things, the signing of Delgado and the fact that Rupert Lowe favoured employing 'yes men'.) Within 48 hours of me writing my mobile rung and I had an extremely irate Rupert Lowe on the line. He could hardly contain himself and as soon as he established that he was talking to the right person he let rip with a tirade of obscenities. The word he seemed to use most was 'ars*hole' and I was really quite shocked, not so much at the word itself (I have been called much worse) but the aggression in which he used it. He must have ranted on for about 5 minutes, going along the lines of what right I had to question him etc etc before he eventually let me get a word in. But as soon as I tried to ask him something relating to the Gray article he would go back into an obscene rant mode, repeatedly calling me an ars*hole, over and over again. I couldn't quite believe what I was hearing to be frank, especially considering his position. At one stage he asked me if I was a shareholder and when I replied 'No', he said I had no rights to question him. When I said I spoke as a fan he replied 'You are not a fan you are just an ars*hole.' I was getting angry I must confess but I was determined not to lower myself and told him as such. I also told him I did not think it appropriate that he use language such as he was using and requested a rational debate without abuse. (To those who know me my apparent reserve must, at this stage, seem quite out of character and to be honest I think I was in a bit of a state of shock or at least on my back feet.) He then made reference to the fact that the club had for the past season given me a season ticket, gratis in payment for services rendered and added because of that fact I should not question him. I immediately offered to pay for my ticket as I did not want to be beholden. The phone conversation went on for about 45 minutes, despite the fact that I suggested termination as soon as he got abusive. In fact I recall he only deemed to hang up when I heard his secretary say in the background 'I have Peter Kenyon on the other line Rupert?' When finally he deemed it appropriate to close the call I found myself quite shaken. I simply could not believe what had happened. I am no shrinking violet and can stand my corner but the level of abuse from someone who was in a position I would like to respect was unnerving. I told a few people of the conversation that very afternoon and coincidentally one of them (St Richard of Woolston on S4E) met Lowe that evening at a function, and Lowe (not knowing Richard and I were acquainted) started bragging to him how he had 'sorted that historian chap out' and admitted quite cheerfully to Richard how he had called me an ars*hole and had not permitted me to get a word in edgeways. Ever since that moment you will not be surprised to learn I have considered Rupert Lowe to be unfit to be the chairman of Southampton FC. Not necessarily because he is bad at his job (although I think he is) but more so because on a personal level I regard him as being totally unfit and even a little bit unhinged. Since that call I have met many others who have had similar experiences. I think Rupert Lowe to be a first class bully and I also regard him as an autocratic egotist. Furthermore I think his destructive presence is very harmful to the future well being of our club. If he has any qualities (and I'm not saying he hasn't) their uses are by far negated by the blatant and nasty way he has bullied all those who attempt to stand up to him. As a historian and a fan who not only loves my club and has studied and researched our great heritage it breaks my heart to see how almost singlehandedly he has destroyed what took more than a century to build up. I am talking about respect throughout the football world, fans that pulled together in times of crisis or hardship, board members who cared as deeply as the fans and a deep feeling of pride that came with being involved with Southampton FC. We might not be the greatest but we were the best. That scenario no longer exists.

 

Duncan Holley

[Dark Munster]

It's interesting in hindsight to look back at all the good publicity we've got in the press for the past few months. It always seemed a bit odd that, after years of ignoring the media, Cortese had gone on a charm offensive. If it's true that he handed in his notice in October, then it was clearly all a calculated attempt by Cortese either to put pressure on Liebherr or to raise his profile and help him get a new job.

Good point!

[JRM]

Good point!

 

its spot on, i'm just amazed more people can't see through it.

[rooney]

I wonder if NC wanted a share of the action ie some shares in the company. He could see that the value of the Company has increased and likely to increase further. Perhaps Ms Liebherr refused and the rest is history now. When I was working, I saw this scenario a few times especially when the CEO had substantially improved the Company and thouyght he was infallible. Just a thought.

[Andy Durman]

There are three sides to every story!

 

What she said, what he said and the truth. I don't think we'll ever know.

 

In KL I trust!!!!!!!!!!!! ( I don't really have a choice if I want to keep the dream going forward)

[shurlock]

its spot on, i'm just amazed more people can't see through it.

 

Forget the fact that we were third, had three players in the full England squad and were giving opportunities to youth.

 

Jesus wept.

[david in sweden]

Is there any real evidence that KL wishes to sell?

 

?.....apparantly only in the artlcle that everyone is referring to,

 

but then also ..what about all those stories of NC looking for buyers (like the Chinese consortium) who he could sell the club to? Doesn't make sense - does it ?

[dronskisaint]

Long term, I think Lowe's influence on the club was more fundamental and given the money available to NC, Lowe and Cowen could have achieved as much, but that won't sit well with the class warriors on this site.

 

By the way, you never met NC, or encountered him in any dealings. I can tell you that the main reason he was canned was that apart from screwing suppliers, other clubs and past players, he also screwed customers and sponsors, which is probably why the Liebherr's had to try and reign him in. NC treated the lot like sh !t most of the time and forced at least one local company into administration.Good riddance and it feels good to get that off my chest at long last...

 

For the mods' sake I trust you can substantiate that statement?

[Window Cleaner]

For the mods' sake I trust you can substantiate that statement?

 

 

I shall look forward to that, it will no doubt be juicy. And for GM it's rein in, kings and queens reign.

[david in sweden]

Am I right is assuming that she might put the auditors in ....(just to check everything - you understand) before actually appointing a new CEO ?

[CanadaSaint]

The current situation is fascinating from a number of perspectives, notwithstanding Duncan's particular angles and Hypo's "amateur psychologist" input - and yet, in some ways, adding a little credence to both of them. And I've been (and still am) a big Cortese supporter, while always recognizing that he seems to have some troubling flaws.

 

This leaves me with three interesting questions.

 

1) If the relationship between Katharina and Cortese had (supposedly) broken down "irretrievably", why did she (on her side's own admission) make him "very generous" offers to stay?

 

My hunch FWIW is that she has a very high regard for his strengths but was no longer willing to tolerate his weaknesses; she made those very generous offers to "sweeten the pill" of reduced total control. The fact that Cortese chose to walk suggests that he finds anything less than 100% control unacceptable, which - in and of itself - both confirms the widely-held perception that Cortese is a rather arrogant "control freak" and justifies the Liebherr decision to bring this to a head.

 

2) Why would Cortese turn down those offers?

 

I'd suggest that he either cannot accept the diminished control or thinks he can engineer his "perfect world" under another owner. No other owner - in their right business mind - would allow him unfettered control with a very big chunk of their money, so I'm inclined to think that he chose to reject the offer and walk away because his ego got the better of him. I can't imagine that he could fund the purchase himself.

 

3) If Katharine really wants to sell the Club, why would a very private woman with little knowledge of football decide to become personally involved in its operation - even if just from a high-level oversight position? After all, she can afford to hire the best talent in the world to oversee a sale which would respect her father's wishes for the club to have a bright future, and yet still be very distant from all the prying, media interest that would inevitably entail.

 

My hunch, again FWIW, is that she has a lot of respect for her father's wishes and plans to keep the club for the foreseeable future and continue building towards his dream. I can't think of any other reason why this private woman would throw herself into the teeth of a very public issue when she could have hired people to do that - and all the associated "dirty work". So far, Katharina has IMO conducted herself extremely well.

[dronskisaint]

that did surprise me. Im sure the people who purchased a copy from the authors did not expect there to be such a massive mark up. I was under the impression that they were likely to be out of pocket but with those types of margin we ought to get a pen and start scribbling a book on Saints. £35 is a lot of money for a book and if the club were making £25 a time they were foolish not to have it on sale. They could even treat the fans well and discount them at £20, double your money is pretty good afterall

 

It's the ugly face of Scargill capitalism leering at you from the bookshelves

[dronskisaint]

But he wasn't even a good businessman. If he was such a good businessman he would have borrowed the £14m to buy the club himself and be cashing in his investment now for upwards of £150m. He didn't, Katarina will be; he'll walk away with f-all. Genius.

 

The most contradictory post on this thread:mcinnes:!!

 

You start with 'But he wasn't even a good businessman....' and proceed to tell how he turned a 14million investment in to 150 million!!

 

Genius

[Window Cleaner]

The most contradictory post on this thread:mcinnes:!!

 

You start with 'But he wasn't even a good businessman....' and proceed to tell how he turned a 14million investment in to 150 million!!

 

Genius

 

 

Anyway good business men never buy anything much with their own money. I suspect that's the basis of stock markets and stuff, couldn't be sure though. We're in a good place right now, various people are to be thanked for putting us there but

I'd as soon that all the current confusion reaches it's end soon enough. I won't even mind if we're sold unless it's to a whack job like Tan.

[Giordano]

"IF" NC really tendered his resignation when we were in 3rd place in October let's not forget he allegedly has previous for this tactic - it suggests to me that he was reprising a business strategy he had played before - playing high stakes poker with KL using the threat of his departure if she did not do (or refrain from doing) whatever it was they discussed. It did not work this time around.

 

I struggle to accept it was totally about "corporate governance" as has been floated by the Independent. NC lawyers would not be in discussions with the Allen and Overy camp about that alone because he is hardly getting "extra" compensation for failing to accept standard working arrangements. I think (probably) the severance is most likely linked to bonus payments and any other ££ connections and contracted financial arrangements that exist but that we don't know about between NC and SFC. Not for constructive dismissal or nasty stuff like that.

 

For me it would be need to be something else as the major contributory factor - and for me the things worth putting his job on the line for (with perhaps a personal relationship with KL breakdown thrown in for good measure) are related to (a) his sense of entitlement and (b)the sale of the club and /or its assets to him +a consortium or to others not including him.

 

AND/OR......and this is more speculation as if we've not had enough already this week ~ that he thought he had personally probably peaked in "value" for the foreseeable future as an effective CE and that therefore it was ok to risk being called on a bluff because his image + personal stock was mega high. The thinking being, If he gets called then - so be it- it happens when you play poker. Either way he would feel that he'd be going out on a business high and will get a "better" job easily elsewhere OR KL will do (or refrain from doing) as she is asked. It might not be a million miles off the truth.

[waggy]

The current situation is fascinating from a number of perspectives, notwithstanding Duncan's particular angles and Hypo's "amateur psychologist" input - and yet, in some ways, adding a little credence to both of them. And I've been (and still am) a big Cortese supporter, while always recognizing that he seems to have some troubling flaws.

 

This leaves me with three interesting questions.

 

1) If the relationship between Katharina and Cortese had (supposedly) broken down "irretrievably", why did she (on her side's own admission) make him "very generous" offers to stay?

 

My hunch FWIW is that she has a very high regard for his strengths but was no longer willing to tolerate his weaknesses; she made those very generous offers to "sweeten the pill" of reduced total control. The fact that Cortese chose to walk suggests that he finds anything less than 100% control unacceptable, which - in and of itself - both confirms the widely-held perception that Cortese is a rather arrogant "control freak" and justifies the Liebherr decision to bring this to a head.

2) Why would Cortese turn down those offers?

 

I'd suggest that he either cannot accept the diminished control or thinks he can engineer his "perfect world" under another owner. No other owner - in their right business mind - would allow him unfettered control with a very big chunk of their money, so I'm inclined to think that he chose to reject the offer and walk away because his ego got the better of him. I can't imagine that he could fund the purchase himself.

 

3) If Katharine really wants to sell the Club, why would a very private woman with little knowledge of football decide to become personally involved in its operation - even if just from a high-level oversight position? After all, she can afford to hire the best talent in the world to oversee a sale which would respect her father's wishes for the club to have a bright future, and yet still be very distant from all the prying, media interest that would inevitably entail.

 

My hunch, again FWIW, is that she has a lot of respect for her father's wishes and plans to keep the club for the foreseeable future and continue building towards his dream. I can't think of any other reason why this private woman would throw herself into the teeth of a very public issue when she could have hired people to do that - and all the associated "dirty work". So far, Katharina has IMO conducted herself extremely well.

 

Was Markus really that bad a judge of character?

[KelvinsRightGlove]

I'm sure with FF's track record he'll fall out with the new CEO sooner rather than later......

 

------------------------------------------------

 

19th June 2006 My name is Duncan Holley, Some of you might recognise me from the fact that I have co-written a number of books on the Saints, commencing with the 'Complete Record' in 1987 and culminating with 'In That Number' in 2003. In the mid 90's, in recognition of my research into the history of the Saints, the club conferred on me the title of official historian. I was honoured but also pleased because it showed the club cared about its past, recognised its heritage but also acknowledged the importance of establishing the true facts and statistics of how we had progressed to where we are. Brian Truscott, the then secretary, was then very helpful in ensuring I was given the title. When Rupert Lowe arrived as chairman, nothing changed and indeed when the new ground at St Marys was announced I wrote to Rupert Lowe, introducing myself and suggesting some sort of room might be put aside for some sort of museum in the new ground. I did not get a reply. Despite this I had no real problem with Rupert Lowe as our chairman. I recognised we could not grow without becoming a PLC and, despite the misgivings over the reverse takeover, I confess to being fickle enough to put that to one side once I realised, at long last, we might actually have a new ground to be proud of. I also thought Rupert Lowe did the right thing by putting David Jones on gardening leave, as hard as it must have been to make such a decision. I also approved of his stance in attempting to open the debate towards bringing back small areas of standing into Premiership grounds, and wrote to him applaud his efforts. I certainly had no preconceptions about the man as far as his background or lack of a football pedigree was concerned. However, around the time of Sturrock's removal I started to have reservations (I still don't quite believe the whole truth re Strachan has yet come out) and when Steve Wigley was appointed those reservations became very real concerns that Rupert Lowe was meddling in areas he shouldn't. I started to watch very closely everything he said and did and before long became fearfully convinced he was actually making footballing decisions, acting in a manner almost as if he was the manager and could do no wrong. Alarm bells started to ring. At the end of October 2004 there appeared an article written by ex-manager Stuart Gray, in the Echo, which made allegations that confirmed my fears, as well as adding to them. Within 24 hours the Official Site wrote a particularly nasty article pouring scorn on and dismissing Gray's words, which I considered unsatisfactory. I wrote to Rupert Lowe expressing my feelings and asking him to answer Gray's allegations properly, as in my mind, the fans needed to know if they were true. (The allegations involved amongst other things, the signing of Delgado and the fact that Rupert Lowe favoured employing 'yes men'.) Within 48 hours of me writing my mobile rung and I had an extremely irate Rupert Lowe on the line. He could hardly contain himself and as soon as he established that he was talking to the right person he let rip with a tirade of obscenities. The word he seemed to use most was 'ars*hole' and I was really quite shocked, not so much at the word itself (I have been called much worse) but the aggression in which he used it. He must have ranted on for about 5 minutes, going along the lines of what right I had to question him etc etc before he eventually let me get a word in. But as soon as I tried to ask him something relating to the Gray article he would go back into an obscene rant mode, repeatedly calling me an ars*hole, over and over again. I couldn't quite believe what I was hearing to be frank, especially considering his position. At one stage he asked me if I was a shareholder and when I replied 'No', he said I had no rights to question him. When I said I spoke as a fan he replied 'You are not a fan you are just an ars*hole.' I was getting angry I must confess but I was determined not to lower myself and told him as such. I also told him I did not think it appropriate that he use language such as he was using and requested a rational debate without abuse. (To those who know me my apparent reserve must, at this stage, seem quite out of character and to be honest I think I was in a bit of a state of shock or at least on my back feet.) He then made reference to the fact that the club had for the past season given me a season ticket, gratis in payment for services rendered and added because of that fact I should not question him. I immediately offered to pay for my ticket as I did not want to be beholden. The phone conversation went on for about 45 minutes, despite the fact that I suggested termination as soon as he got abusive. In fact I recall he only deemed to hang up when I heard his secretary say in the background 'I have Peter Kenyon on the other line Rupert?' When finally he deemed it appropriate to close the call I found myself quite shaken. I simply could not believe what had happened. I am no shrinking violet and can stand my corner but the level of abuse from someone who was in a position I would like to respect was unnerving. I told a few people of the conversation that very afternoon and coincidentally one of them (St Richard of Woolston on S4E) met Lowe that evening at a function, and Lowe (not knowing Richard and I were acquainted) started bragging to him how he had 'sorted that historian chap out' and admitted quite cheerfully to Richard how he had called me an ars*hole and had not permitted me to get a word in edgeways. Ever since that moment you will not be surprised to learn I have considered Rupert Lowe to be unfit to be the chairman of Southampton FC. Not necessarily because he is bad at his job (although I think he is) but more so because on a personal level I regard him as being totally unfit and even a little bit unhinged. Since that call I have met many others who have had similar experiences. I think Rupert Lowe to be a first class bully and I also regard him as an autocratic egotist. Furthermore I think his destructive presence is very harmful to the future well being of our club. If he has any qualities (and I'm not saying he hasn't) their uses are by far negated by the blatant and nasty way he has bullied all those who attempt to stand up to him. As a historian and a fan who not only loves my club and has studied and researched our great heritage it breaks my heart to see how almost singlehandedly he has destroyed what took more than a century to build up. I am talking about respect throughout the football world, fans that pulled together in times of crisis or hardship, board members who cared as deeply as the fans and a deep feeling of pride that came with being involved with Southampton FC. We might not be the greatest but we were the best. That scenario no longer exists.

 

Duncan Holley

 

 

Sounds as though NC isn't the only one with an out of whack ego.

[CanadaSaint]

Was Markus really that bad a judge of character?

 

No, I don't think so. It's just that we lost his oversight/restraining influence over Cortese when he died and it was never replaced. The scene was then set for "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely" - not in a dishonesty context but a personality context.

[Batman]

I'm sure with FF's track record he'll fall out with the new CEO sooner rather than later......

 

------------------------------------------------

 

19th June 2006 My name is Duncan Holley, Some of you might recognise me from the fact that I have co-written a number of books on the Saints, commencing with the 'Complete Record' in 1987 and culminating with 'In That Number' in 2003. In the mid 90's, in recognition of my research into the history of the Saints, the club conferred on me the title of official historian. I was honoured but also pleased because it showed the club cared about its past, recognised its heritage but also acknowledged the importance of establishing the true facts and statistics of how we had progressed to where we are. Brian Truscott, the then secretary, was then very helpful in ensuring I was given the title.

 

When Rupert Lowe arrived as chairman, nothing changed and indeed when the new ground at St Marys was announced I wrote to Rupert Lowe, introducing myself and suggesting some sort of room might be put aside for some sort of museum in the new ground. I did not get a reply. Despite this I had no real problem with Rupert Lowe as our chairman. I recognised we could not grow without becoming a PLC and, despite the misgivings over the reverse takeover, I confess to being fickle enough to put that to one side once I realised, at long last, we might actually have a new ground to be proud of. I also thought Rupert Lowe did the right thing by putting David Jones on gardening leave, as hard as it must have been to make such a decision. I also approved of his stance in attempting to open the debate towards bringing back small areas of standing into Premiership grounds, and wrote to him applaud his efforts. I certainly had no preconceptions about the man as far as his background or lack of a football pedigree was concerned.

 

However, around the time of Sturrock's removal I started to have reservations (I still don't quite believe the whole truth re Strachan has yet come out) and when Steve Wigley was appointed those reservations became very real concerns that Rupert Lowe was meddling in areas he shouldn't. I started to watch very closely everything he said and did and before long became fearfully convinced he was actually making footballing decisions, acting in a manner almost as if he was the manager and could do no wrong. Alarm bells started to ring. At the end of October 2004 there appeared an article written by ex-manager Stuart Gray, in the Echo, which made allegations that confirmed my fears, as well as adding to them.

 

Within 24 hours the Official Site wrote a particularly nasty article pouring scorn on and dismissing Gray's words, which I considered unsatisfactory. I wrote to Rupert Lowe expressing my feelings and asking him to answer Gray's allegations properly, as in my mind, the fans needed to know if they were true. (The allegations involved amongst other things, the signing of Delgado and the fact that Rupert Lowe favoured employing 'yes men'.) Within 48 hours of me writing my mobile rung and I had an extremely irate Rupert Lowe on the line. He could hardly contain himself and as soon as he established that he was talking to the right person he let rip with a tirade of obscenities. The word he seemed to use most was 'ars*hole' and I was really quite shocked, not so much at the word itself (I have been called much worse) but the aggression in which he used it.

 

He must have ranted on for about 5 minutes, going along the lines of what right I had to question him etc etc before he eventually let me get a word in. But as soon as I tried to ask him something relating to the Gray article he would go back into an obscene rant mode, repeatedly calling me an ars*hole, over and over again. I couldn't quite believe what I was hearing to be frank, especially considering his position. At one stage he asked me if I was a shareholder and when I replied 'No', he said I had no rights to question him. When I said I spoke as a fan he replied 'You are not a fan you are just an ars*hole.' I was getting angry I must confess but I was determined not to lower myself and told him as such. I also told him I did not think it appropriate that he use language such as he was using and requested a rational debate without abuse. (To those who know me my apparent reserve must, at this stage, seem quite out of character and to be honest I think I was in a bit of a state of shock or at least on my back feet.)

 

He then made reference to the fact that the club had for the past season given me a season ticket, gratis in payment for services rendered and added because of that fact I should not question him. I immediately offered to pay for my ticket as I did not want to be beholden. The phone conversation went on for about 45 minutes, despite the fact that I suggested termination as soon as he got abusive. In fact I recall he only deemed to hang up when I heard his secretary say in the background 'I have Peter Kenyon on the other line Rupert?' When finally he deemed it appropriate to close the call I found myself quite shaken. I simply could not believe what had happened.

 

I am no shrinking violet and can stand my corner but the level of abuse from someone who was in a position I would like to respect was unnerving. I told a few people of the conversation that very afternoon and coincidentally one of them (St Richard of Woolston on S4E) met Lowe that evening at a function, and Lowe (not knowing Richard and I were acquainted) started bragging to him how he had 'sorted that historian chap out' and admitted quite cheerfully to Richard how he had called me an ars*hole and had not permitted me to get a word in edgeways. Ever since that moment you will not be surprised to learn I have considered Rupert Lowe to be unfit to be the chairman of Southampton FC. Not necessarily because he is bad at his job (although I think he is) but more so because on a personal level I regard him as being totally unfit and even a little bit unhinged.

 

Since that call I have met many others who have had similar experiences. I think Rupert Lowe to be a first class bully and I also regard him as an autocratic egotist. Furthermore I think his destructive presence is very harmful to the future well being of our club. If he has any qualities (and I'm not saying he hasn't) their uses are by far negated by the blatant and nasty way he has bullied all those who attempt to stand up to him. As a historian and a fan who not only loves my club and has studied and researched our great heritage it breaks my heart to see how almost singlehandedly he has destroyed what took more than a century to build up. I am talking about respect throughout the football world, fans that pulled together in times of crisis or hardship, board members who cared as deeply as the fans and a deep feeling of pride that came with being involved with Southampton FC. We might not be the greatest but we were the best. That scenario no longer exists.

 

Duncan Holley

 

 

only a matter of time.