Batman Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 (edited) Weird isn't it Strangely, not so fussed this time round. Pelle will go, didn't like him anyway Ronald will go. Gutted but just shows he is a **** like the rest of them. No different to Poch and hope he gets roundly boo'd at SMS. Played the club good and proper Vic acted like a **** last year Juanmi was a shyt signing. Up there with Forren and by no means a key figure Mane is the one we really have to keep. Tadic would be a loss Just weird how we have such a high turnover of key personnel which cannot be compared to anyone else outside of a Leeds/Portsmouth. Be nice for this not to happen and know why it happens to us way more than most. There has to be an element of the clubs doing But Fair play to the club for getting it right almost every time. Hope that luck/skill continues Edited 4 June, 2016 by Batman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 If we improve every time we change staff why is it a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 4 June, 2016 Author Share Posted 4 June, 2016 If we improve every time we change staff why is it a problem? Never really said there was a problem Just curious why it happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Armstrong Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 (edited) Never really said there was a problem Just curious why it happens I would say it's because we tend to recruit people who fly just under the radar of the top clubs (take the stories of LFC/THFC overlooking Mane for example). We go for people who already have great ability, but have far more potential that can be realised. Top clubs are keeping an eye on them but won't gamble on them. We do our background checks and bring them in. When they impress, the 'gamble' factor disappears for those big clubs and they come in. Our ceiling, financially, is much different to those sort of clubs. That's fuelled by numerous factors: smaller stadium, having less time as an established Premier League club and, yes, the owner's approach to how much money she is prepared to throw at the club. Let me make it clear, though, that I am very happy that Katharina is committed and wants the best for Saints. I'm perfectly happy with our ownership situation. The club has shown it is unwilling to submit to bending the knee for a short-term reprieve, instead sticking to the board's values and the club's structure, and beginning the recruitment process again in pursuit of longer term success. Spending will increase, as shown with transfer outlays over the years, plus wage budgets - I can't imagine FF and VVD's renewals will have come cheap. But we can be smart and we can steadily improve, but we're not rushing anything and we're not playing games with the future of the club. I'm just fine with that, we've done well from this approach so far and so long as it continues, that's just great. There will come a point where it's hard for the club to bank on continual improvement season-on-season, and maybe we are at this point now - I genuinely don't know - but even still, the likes of Leicester, ourselves, Stoke and Swansea previously have shown that the apple cart can be upset. I'm very happy with the Liebherr ownership and I have full faith in Les Reed to keep us ticking over and trying to progress. If this is the end of the Koeman era - and I think it is - then the king is dead, long live the king. Excited to see who comes here next. We're in a great position, arguably our best ever in the PL age, to attract the person Les will want. That's exciting and we've still got plenty to look forward to. Long may the good times continue. Edited 4 June, 2016 by Saint-Armstrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 (edited) Never really said there was a problem Just curious why it happens Because we are a medium sized club who find good people that bigger clubs want. Don't think we can really change that, not sure why we would want to if it carrys on being successful. Edited 4 June, 2016 by aintforever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 Don't think Pelle will go in all honesty. Just hope whoever we bring in doesn't want to radically change things as it doesn't really need it. If Koeman leaves that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 Worth reading this interview with Ralph again. http://m.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/14428583.Saints_chairman_Krueger_reveals__excellent__talks_with_Koeman/ This bit is important I think "we don’t want anybody here who doesn’t believe they can grow in the role that they have, and that begins with our leaders on the first team, and that’s Ronald." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchards Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 Never really said there was a problem Just curious why it happens I suppose one day it could go tits up if you keep doing it. It could of happened last season after that shocking run but luckily we turned it around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 Batman et al, you have lost total perspective on the issue. It would be best for you and others to regain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 I suppose one day it could go tits up if you keep doing it. Our luck is going to change sooner or later. One bad decision is all it will take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 Our luck is going to change sooner or later. One bad decision is all it will take. If its luck then the decision won't matter at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
positivepete Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 I would say it's because we tend to recruit people who fly just under the radar of the top clubs (take the stories of LFC/THFC overlooking Mane for example). We go for people who already have great ability, but have far more potential that can be realised. Top clubs are keeping an eye on them but won't gamble on them. We do our background checks and bring them in. When they impress, the 'gamble' factor disappears for those big clubs and they come in. Our ceiling, financially, is much different to those sort of clubs. That's fuelled by numerous factors: smaller stadium, having less time as an established Premier League club and, yes, the owner's approach to how much money she is prepared to throw at the club. Let me make it clear, though, that I am very happy that Katharina is committed and wants the best for Saints. I'm perfectly happy with our ownership situation. The club has shown it is unwilling to submit to bending the knee for a short-term reprieve, instead sticking to the board's values and the club's structure, and beginning the recruitment process again in pursuit of longer term success. Spending will increase, as shown with transfer outlays over the years, plus wage budgets - I can't imagine FF and VVD's renewals will have come cheap. But we can be smart and we can steadily improve, but we're not rushing anything and we're not playing games with the future of the club. I'm just fine with that, we've done well from this approach so far and so long as it continues, that's just great. There will come a point where it's hard for the club to bank on continual improvement season-on-season, and maybe we are at this point now - I genuinely don't know - but even still, the likes of Leicester, ourselves, Stoke and Swansea previously have shown that the apple cart can be upset. I'm very happy with the Liebherr ownership and I have full faith in Les Reed to keep us ticking over and trying to progress. If this is the end of the Koeman era - and I think it is - then the king is dead, long live the king. Excited to see who comes here next. We're in a great position, arguably our best ever in the PL age, to attract the person Les will want. That's exciting and we've still got plenty to look forward to. Long may the good times continue. Top post, sanity amongst all the madness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 Well, I knew who'd started this thread just from the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 Our luck is going to change sooner or later. One bad decision is all it will take. Happened in 2004 when we appointed Sturrock over Hoddle. Hopefully it won't happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 I would say it's because we tend to recruit people who fly just under the radar of the top clubs (take the stories of LFC/THFC overlooking Mane for example). We go for people who already have great ability, but have far more potential that can be realised. Top clubs are keeping an eye on them but won't gamble on them. We do our background checks and bring them in. When they impress, the 'gamble' factor disappears for those big clubs and they come in. Our ceiling, financially, is much different to those sort of clubs. That's fuelled by numerous factors: smaller stadium, having less time as an established Premier League club and, yes, the owner's approach to how much money she is prepared to throw at the club. Let me make it clear, though, that I am very happy that Katharina is committed and wants the best for Saints. I'm perfectly happy with our ownership situation. The club has shown it is unwilling to submit to bending the knee for a short-term reprieve, instead sticking to the board's values and the club's structure, and beginning the recruitment process again in pursuit of longer term success. Spending will increase, as shown with transfer outlays over the years, plus wage budgets - I can't imagine FF and VVD's renewals will have come cheap. But we can be smart and we can steadily improve, but we're not rushing anything and we're not playing games with the future of the club. I'm just fine with that, we've done well from this approach so far and so long as it continues, that's just great. There will come a point where it's hard for the club to bank on continual improvement season-on-season, and maybe we are at this point now - I genuinely don't know - but even still, the likes of Leicester, ourselves, Stoke and Swansea previously have shown that the apple cart can be upset. I'm very happy with the Liebherr ownership and I have full faith in Les Reed to keep us ticking over and trying to progress. If this is the end of the Koeman era - and I think it is - then the king is dead, long live the king. Excited to see who comes here next. We're in a great position, arguably our best ever in the PL age, to attract the person Les will want. That's exciting and we've still got plenty to look forward to. Long may the good times continue. Stop ruining it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBizzier69 Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 I hope the people who believe that change has only improved us are right.....another 5 managerial changes and we've got the PL title in the bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 Our luck is going to change sooner or later. One bad decision is all it will take. Arguably the most important position in the club is the manager, and this more than anything I don't believe Les Reed et al will get wrong. However, the continuity we would have from Koeman staying won't be easy to replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 If its luck then the decision won't matter at all... Sir, can you kindly keep logic out of this please. There is no place for such things on the SaintsWeb Forum, especially when we're in full meltdown mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 (edited) I would say it's because we tend to recruit people who fly just under the radar of the top clubs (take the stories of LFC/THFC overlooking Mane for example). We go for people who already have great ability, but have far more potential that can be realised. Top clubs are keeping an eye on them but won't gamble on them. We do our background checks and bring them in. When they impress, the 'gamble' factor disappears for those big clubs and they come in. Our ceiling, financially, is much different to those sort of clubs. That's fuelled by numerous factors: smaller stadium, having less time as an established Premier League club and, yes, the owner's approach to how much money she is prepared to throw at the club. Let me make it clear, though, that I am very happy that Katharina is committed and wants the best for Saints. I'm perfectly happy with our ownership situation. The club has shown it is unwilling to submit to bending the knee for a short-term reprieve, instead sticking to the board's values and the club's structure, and beginning the recruitment process again in pursuit of longer term success. Spending will increase, as shown with transfer outlays over the years, plus wage budgets - I can't imagine FF and VVD's renewals will have come cheap. But we can be smart and we can steadily improve, but we're not rushing anything and we're not playing games with the future of the club. I'm just fine with that, we've done well from this approach so far and so long as it continues, that's just great. There will come a point where it's hard for the club to bank on continual improvement season-on-season, and maybe we are at this point now - I genuinely don't know - but even still, the likes of Leicester, ourselves, Stoke and Swansea previously have shown that the apple cart can be upset. I'm very happy with the Liebherr ownership and I have full faith in Les Reed to keep us ticking over and trying to progress. If this is the end of the Koeman era - and I think it is - then the king is dead, long live the king. Excited to see who comes here next. We're in a great position, arguably our best ever in the PL age, to attract the person Les will want. That's exciting and we've still got plenty to look forward to. Long may the good times continue. Likewise you sir, kindly take your pragmatism elsewhere Edited 4 June, 2016 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 4 June, 2016 Author Share Posted 4 June, 2016 I would say it's because we tend to recruit people who fly just under the radar of the top clubs (take the stories of LFC/THFC overlooking Mane for example). We go for people who already have great ability, but have far more potential that can be realised. Top clubs are keeping an eye on them but won't gamble on them. We do our background checks and bring them in. When they impress, the 'gamble' factor disappears for those big clubs and they come in. Our ceiling, financially, is much different to those sort of clubs. That's fuelled by numerous factors: smaller stadium, having less time as an established Premier League club and, yes, the owner's approach to how much money she is prepared to throw at the club. Let me make it clear, though, that I am very happy that Katharina is committed and wants the best for Saints. I'm perfectly happy with our ownership situation. The club has shown it is unwilling to submit to bending the knee for a short-term reprieve, instead sticking to the board's values and the club's structure, and beginning the recruitment process again in pursuit of longer term success. Spending will increase, as shown with transfer outlays over the years, plus wage budgets - I can't imagine FF and VVD's renewals will have come cheap. But we can be smart and we can steadily improve, but we're not rushing anything and we're not playing games with the future of the club. I'm just fine with that, we've done well from this approach so far and so long as it continues, that's just great. There will come a point where it's hard for the club to bank on continual improvement season-on-season, and maybe we are at this point now - I genuinely don't know - but even still, the likes of Leicester, ourselves, Stoke and Swansea previously have shown that the apple cart can be upset. I'm very happy with the Liebherr ownership and I have full faith in Les Reed to keep us ticking over and trying to progress. If this is the end of the Koeman era - and I think it is - then the king is dead, long live the king. Excited to see who comes here next. We're in a great position, arguably our best ever in the PL age, to attract the person Les will want. That's exciting and we've still got plenty to look forward to. Long may the good times continue. a good post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 (edited) It is a question of different growth rates and as stated above our committed strategy of keeping to budgets and wage ceilings whilst giving platforms to ambitious young and often unproven players and managers in the premier league . The players and managers that are successful then want to grow at a faster rate than the club can afford to particularly given the length of their careers and their ambitions in coming here in the first place This differential in the rate of growth and the time taken to achieve respective ambitions is always going to produce changes Indeed our strategy of gradual growth needs change to be effective The conundrum is always getting the balance of change versus stability right so that change is built around a solid spine to reduce risk whilst also slowly lifting our budgets and wage ceilings as our commercial position improves The question therefore is always have we got the balance right and can we continue to find a greater percentage of gems than duds in our recruitment policy however as our strategy gets more and more recognition it will inevitably attract the type of players and managers we need Edited 4 June, 2016 by Saint Without a Halo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1ex2001 Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 Don't think Pelle will go in all honesty. Just hope whoever we bring in doesn't want to radically change things as it doesn't really need it. If Koeman leaves that is. We won't bring in a manager who wants to radically change things we have played a broadly similar formation and style since we returned to the top flight with a few minor tweaks along the way. Any manager who joins the club will be expected to continue this so there will be no twitchy style influx of dodgy crap! We have been victims of our own success lately which is both a blessing and a curse but I for one would rather the club stick to it's principles and plans than risk busting the bank on gambles and greedy individuals that don't want to be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 I would say it's because we tend to recruit people who fly just under the radar of the top clubs (take the stories of LFC/THFC overlooking Mane for example). We go for people who already have great ability, but have far more potential that can be realised. Top clubs are keeping an eye on them but won't gamble on them. We do our background checks and bring them in. When they impress, the 'gamble' factor disappears for those big clubs and they come in. Our ceiling, financiallyI , is much different to those sort of clubs. That's fuelled by numerous factors: smaller stadium, having less time as an established Premier League club and, yes, the owner's approach to how much money she is prepared to throw at the club. Let me make it clear, though, that I am very happy that Katharina is committed and wants the best for Saints. I'm perfectly happy with our ownership situation. The club has shown it is unwilling to submit to bending the knee for a short-term reprieve, instead sticking to the board's values and the club's structure, and beginning the recruitment process again in pursuit of longer term success. Spending will increase, as shown with transfer outlays over the years, plus wage budgets - I can't imagine FF and VVD's renewals will have come cheap. But we can be smart and we can steadily improve, but we're not rushing anything and we're not playing games with the future of the club. I'm just fine with that, we've done well from this approach so far and so long as it continues, that's just great. There will come a point where it's hard for the club to bank on continual improvement season-on-season, and maybe we are at this point now - I genuinely don't know - but even still, the likes of Leicester, ourselves, Stoke and Swansea previously have shown that the apple cart can be upset. I'm very happy with the Liebherr ownership and I have full faith in Les Reed to keep us ticking over and trying to progress. If this is the end of the Koeman era - and I think it is - then the king is dead, long live the king. Excited to see who comes here next. We're in a great position, arguably our best ever in the PL age, to attract the person Les will want. That's exciting and we've still got plenty to look forward to. Long may the good times continue. Thanks for a spot on top post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Fred Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 As fans we need to temper our aspirations? If we finish say 9th next year it's is still a great achievement..there is no way we are going to improve position every year. The manager is really important but more so is the playing squad. Koeman fell on his feet in reality with the sales of Shaw lallana etc we were able to buy multiple players of quality and have the best squad I have known at the club. RK changed MP's high press game and did his own thing..less possession etc which worked for him. If Mane goes for say 30 million and we invest in 3 players in the 8-10 million bracket arguably we could improve the squad again.. People fear change but RK is not the best manager ever and it's just as possible that the next person might do better than him. I am sure the new guy will have some money to spend outside of money raised from sales..next season could be exciting! Oh and the quote from the Everton fan on talk***** was funny.."we have just signed the Dutch David Moyes! " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevy777_x Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 If we want all this to change then we need a mega rich owner prepared to invest in the club in order for it to grow quicker than we are growing at the moment. We all know money talks and that if key personnel get their heads turned by clubs offering more money they will ultimately want to leave. We appeared to be this mega rich club when Cortese was at the helm but Kat then realized he was spending money that wasn t there and she was not prepared to put in her own money. Yes, we are trying to grow but all this will be done at a slow rate and within our means because we are not prepared to take risks (we all know where we ended up last time when we took some risks). With that being said we are on a continual lookout for investors, and if one day one seems attractive enough to take the club to another level quickly and an offer is made which reflects how Kat values the club, she will sell. It is just that we haven't found anyone yet with that sort of money and commitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 I think the club need to review its policies tbh. Can't keep losing people like this every year. People say we've improved but Koeman is only appointment since Cortese and sold his best players and improved us. Don't think anyone will be able to match it but hope I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 Genuine question: we have been top 8 in the PL for the last 3 seasons. Do we act like we belong in that upper portion of the league? Or do we act like we are overachieving and are pleasantly suprised to be there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 we are on a continual lookout for investors Source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 Our strategy is to pay less for young ambitious players and live within our means we will only buy established stars when we can afford to indeed we have been significantly better at buying the Manes Tadics and Wanyamas than our one foray into a big established star such as Osvaldo that Poch wanted (wrongly as it turned out to accelerate our growth). It is understandable why ambiltious players and managers want to move quicker and where that is deemed likely to risk the clubs steady growth and financial stability We need to cash in on them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 Genuine question: we have been top 8 in the PL for the last 3 seasons. Do we act like we belong in that upper portion of the league? Or do we act like we are overachieving and are pleasantly suprised to be there? Define the two criteria...act like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 Genuine question: we have been top 8 in the PL for the last 3 seasons. Do we act like we belong in that upper portion of the league? Or do we act like we are overachieving and are pleasantly suprised to be there? We have achieved success on the field that has outgrown the speed of our commercial growth Success on the field helps the club grow its commercial base worldwide and its brand recognition all of which in turn helps speed up commercial growth To compete better with the clubs around us on a spend and wages basis requires us matching them commercially as well as on the field Every year we manage to compete well on the field gets us closer commercially but we are no where near them yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 (edited) If we want all this to change then we need a mega rich owner prepared to invest in the club in order for it to grow quicker than we are growing at the moment. We all know money talks and that if key personnel get their heads turned by clubs offering more money they will ultimately want to leave. We appeared to be this mega rich club when Cortese was at the helm but Kat then realized he was spending money that wasn t there and she was not prepared to put in her own money. Yes, we are trying to grow but all this will be done at a slow rate and within our means because we are not prepared to take risks (we all know where we ended up last time when we took some risks). With that being said we are on a continual lookout for investors, and if one day one seems attractive enough to take the club to another level quickly and an offer is made which reflects how Kat values the club, she will sell. It is just that we haven't found anyone yet with that sort of money and commitment. A mega rich owner is not sustainable growth as once the cost base has been lifted artificially it leaves the club in big trouble if the owner decides to move on and he cannot be replaced with another of equally deep pockets that is why financial fair trade has been brought in to ensure clubs spend within their means The way to spend more is to increase commercial growth and this is precisely what Ralf and the FD are there to oversee Therefore any investment needs to be sensible and in parallel to commercial growth not instead of it also it must comply with FFP Everton appear prepared to gamble the clubs future we are not! Look what happened to Blackburn Wigan and Pompey once their investment slowed and dried up Edited 4 June, 2016 by Saint Without a Halo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 The title of the thread is the important thing to focus on here. We do have an alarming issue with losing key personnel consistently causing major upheaval and unbalancing the structure and continuity of the team. Whilst Les has directed replacement choice well the point is he appears to be poor at man management resulting in people looking to move away rather too often now. Whilst we get a lot right we get a lot wrong too. I would keep Les in a re recruitment role at the club but take him out of the contract negotiation role which is evidently not his skill set. I would also distance him from team affairs as he appears to have a negative effect there which is back to man management. In fact I would IF this develops into another player exodus the Les needs replacing all together... The Five Year plan cannot possibly include another two Or three major upheaval, that is obvious. Our luck will run out as will team/club spirit. For me, there is always evolution in a business but not continuous churn of key management and staff on our scale. A more focused role for Les would be good and take him out of the 'General Manager' position. Les has become quite conceited and arrogant now and this is not a behaviour which fits with the major privileged roll he has at the club.... His skill is recruitment not negotiating, harmony and General Management. Sorry Les but this recurring theme must lead to a review of your role at the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Fred Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 HWe have achieved success on the field that has outgrown the speed of our commercial growth Success on the field helps the club grow its commercial base worldwide and its brand recognition all of which in turn helps speed up commercial growth To compete better with the clubs around us on a spend and wages basis requires us matching them commercially as well as on the field Every year we manage to compete well on the field gets us closer commercially but we are no where near them yet I am sure revenue wise we arent far behind our peers? Even Everton are only just ahead of us. With the new kit deal etc we will make up some ground. The big six though are miles ahead..hundreds of millions ahead and that gap will only ever close if someone is prepared to plug the gap between the investment required to win things and the commercial revenue catch up as new people round the world start buying SFC products. It worked for Man City and Chelsea who have both done it, joining Man U arsenal etc for revenue but it has cost the owners approx 1 billion to do it. The Everton guy isn't going to invest that and I don't think Kat has that sort of money anyway. We haven't really got a choice other than continue a path of steady growth. It's annoying that some one else gets an investment and so jumps you again for a while but ours is a long term strategy. It's worked so far and I don't think anything I say will change it..not got a billion on me at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 H I am sure revenue wise we arent far behind our peers? Even Everton are only just ahead of us. With the new kit deal etc we will make up some ground. The big six though are miles ahead..hundreds of millions ahead and that gap will only ever close if someone is prepared to plug the gap between the investment required to win things and the commercial revenue catch up as new people round the world start buying SFC products. It worked for Man City and Chelsea who have both done it, joining Man U arsenal etc for revenue but it has cost the owners approx 1 billion to do it. The Everton guy isn't going to invest that and I don't think Kat has that sort of money anyway. We haven't really got a choice other than continue a path of steady growth. It's annoying that some one else gets an investment and so jumps you again for a while but ours is a long term strategy. It's worked so far and I don't think anything I say will change it..not got a billion on me at present. Everton are gambling do we want to match them? If we get good sustainable investment then I would say yes otherwise we are doing the right thing Anyway players and managers are leaving for two interlinked reasons One is money and that motivates most But the other is a mismatch of ambitions Poch and Probably Koeman want to kick on it is important for their career the club with the longer term view is more cautious It is a matter of balance in limiting risk by not growing the cost base to far ahead of income and at the same time ensuring some stability and continuity in personnel A very difficult tight line to walk and on the whole Les has done more right than wrong so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 Personally I don't think Everton have been that ambitious with this appointment. If they are paying him the salary of a elite level manager then why didn't they go for an actual elite level manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 Getting back to the threads title as and assuming we continue to improve commercially our growth and ambition targets can speed up bringing them more in line with those of our players and managers We are going out of our way to find young ambitious managers and players as this is the strategy we have chosen and change and churn will always accompany this We could try and do what other clubs do and buy established players passed their sell by date who are less likely to want to move on but we have chosen to develop and buy youth with ambition So until we are at a level where we can commercially and safely keep those we want both in terms of pay and the planned speed of our growth we will continue to lose personnel In a rather perverse way the more we lose the more successful we are As I said before we need to get the balance right and it is far from easy to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 (edited) Personally I don't think Everton have been that ambitious with this appointment. If they are paying him the salary of a elite level manager then why didn't they go for an actual elite level manager. They believe Koeman is now an elite manager having proved himself at Saints in the premier league just like Poch was for the North London Yobbos both clubs have been prepared to give our recently proven managers the funds they believe they need to get them to the next stage in their careers and that saints ambitions were to slow for them Everton have always been frugal whilst trying to buy established players it has not worked for them under their current chairman Bill Kenwright or their recent managers Their new investor from Iran Farhad Moshri appears to want to throw money in a a gamble to get them up to the top 4 or 5 level where they believe they belong hence the 100m budget before any sales if indeed this is what he is doing it Certainly appears to be a change in their strategy and a gamble from where they currently sit It could succeed but it could also fail with calamitous consequences Edited 4 June, 2016 by Saint Without a Halo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 Top post, sanity amongst all the madness Agreeing with Saint-Armstrong's sensible assessment. The 'top' clubs have the financial muscle to pick off players (and managers) who perform well at any other Premier club so under the system as it operate, successful teams will lose personnel to the rich clubs. We've been successful so our people became targets and financially we are not able to keep them. We have to play the game our way by trying to be being more clever over our recruitment. It's not just Southampton, as shown by the Arsenal bid for Vardy. What it does show is that Financial Fair Play is written on paper that would be best flushed down the toilet. I don't actually mean that last comment because FFP does offer a solution to creating a fair and balanced competition but it won't happen as long as those with their snouts in the trough continue to benefit from the way things are. To do something about it, football fans would have to stop going to matches and stop buying Sky subscriptions at obscene costs, but that won't happen either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooh it's a corner Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 it will be interesting to see how many star players stay at Leicester this summer. Vardy talking to Arsenal already. Players rubbing shoulders with international team-mates..... It's just a current pecking order thing. We've lost players to Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal and Man Utd. Looks like we will lose our manager to Everton. We're not losing players to teams whi historically are a long way below us in the pecking order. It is inevitable as Leicester will find out this summer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 Saint Armstrongs post was great, and that's all that needs to be said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 Saint Armstrongs post was great, and that's all that needs to be said. Again in your opinion. People don't have to agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 Again in your opinion. People don't have to agree with you. Ok, cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DG Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 We are just too damned good. Also they are being offered a lot more money and a better chance of winning things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 We're doomed, doomed I tell you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 I would say it's because we tend to recruit people who fly just under the radar of the top clubs (take the stories of LFC/THFC overlooking Mane for example). We go for people who already have great ability, but have far more potential that can be realised. Top clubs are keeping an eye on them but won't gamble on them. We do our background checks and bring them in. When they impress, the 'gamble' factor disappears for those big clubs and they come in. Our ceiling, financially, is much different to those sort of clubs. That's fuelled by numerous factors: smaller stadium, having less time as an established Premier League club and, yes, the owner's approach to how much money she is prepared to throw at the club. Let me make it clear, though, that I am very happy that Katharina is committed and wants the best for Saints. I'm perfectly happy with our ownership situation. The club has shown it is unwilling to submit to bending the knee for a short-term reprieve, instead sticking to the board's values and the club's structure, and beginning the recruitment process again in pursuit of longer term success. Spending will increase, as shown with transfer outlays over the years, plus wage budgets - I can't imagine FF and VVD's renewals will have come cheap. But we can be smart and we can steadily improve, but we're not rushing anything and we're not playing games with the future of the club. I'm just fine with that, we've done well from this approach so far and so long as it continues, that's just great. There will come a point where it's hard for the club to bank on continual improvement season-on-season, and maybe we are at this point now - I genuinely don't know - but even still, the likes of Leicester, ourselves, Stoke and Swansea previously have shown that the apple cart can be upset. I'm very happy with the Liebherr ownership and I have full faith in Les Reed to keep us ticking over and trying to progress. If this is the end of the Koeman era - and I think it is - then the king is dead, long live the king. Excited to see who comes here next. We're in a great position, arguably our best ever in the PL age, to attract the person Les will want. That's exciting and we've still got plenty to look forward to. Long may the good times continue. Excellent post, Armstrong! I think back to an interview with Ralph from a season or 2 ago when he said "we know who we are". I think it's quite a salient point. I don't think we are quite as naive as we seem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom & Gerry Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 Isn't 2 years the shelf life of Managers at most clubs these days? We've had ambitious Managers who have done well at Saints and then think the grass is greener else where or they think they've taken the club as far as it can go - McMenemy, Ball, Souness,Hoddle,Strachan,Rednapp,Poch, and what have they won ? 1 measly bought FA cup between them. It was always a disaster when they left but somehow we've managed to struggle on to 6th in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 Isn't 2 years the shelf life of Managers at most clubs these days? We've had ambitious Managers who have done well at Saints and then think the grass is greener else where or they think they've taken the club as far as it can go - McMenemy, Ball, Souness,Hoddle,Strachan,Rednapp,Poch, and what have they won ? 1 measly bought FA cup between them. It was always a disaster when they left but somehow we've managed to struggle on to 6th in the league. Another corking post, along with Conor's excellent offerings. We're the Saints and we'll be fine. Can't believe people are moaning at the board about investment, look at how much has been invested since 2009 and the season by season improvement. Proud to be a Saints fan. KL wrote off about 33m alone to get us in the PL yet I don't see that posted anywhere. I just hope we hold out with Everton until we unveil our new manager so we get our PR spin in first and remember we hold the aces on releasing RK. Will wear my Saints shirt today with pride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Kent Saint Posted 4 June, 2016 Share Posted 4 June, 2016 I think Kat has loaned the club £30M so far so it seems the club has not got a large pot of money. Unlike some larger clubs who are pumping millions of (ill gotten roubles) into their pet projects . I think the club was going to be financially ruined if NC was left in charge and Kat is determined to keep the club afloat without pumping millions of her own money into it. RK , I suspect , wants to spend big and not bring players through from the youth system as it takes too long to be sucessful that way and he would not get his "dream move" !! We supporters are still finding it difficult to make the transision from the old days of local players , loyal managers that stay with the club for years and the full blown :money talks , it's a business stupid , greed and more greed plus fleecing of the innocent (us). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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