JWP

[washsaint]

Great article in the Daily Mail about Prowsey - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8488227/Southamptons-James-Ward-Prowse-scoring-set-pieces-garden-Premier-League.html

What a star he is and so grounded.  Chuffed to bits for him on how things are panning out - a true role model and a Saints legend at the age of 25!  Can;t believe 1 more free kick goal and he equals MLT.  Also that no other player in the Prem has scored more from free kicks than him since 2017/18.

[rooney]

I remember an article on him on the OS I think it was, from a past youth coach who said as he was about to sit down to his Christmas Dinner, he looked out the window and there was JWP on a training run out in the snow. Dedication indeed.

[The Kraken]

45 minutes ago, rooney said:

I remember an article on him on the OS I think it was, from a past youth coach who said as he was about to sit down to his Christmas Dinner, he looked out the window and there was JWP on a training run out in the snow. Dedication indeed.

Unlikely.

Snow on Christmas Day, I mean.

[Lord Duckhunter]

#didnthappen 

[East Kent Saint]

My automatic thought when JWP was lining up for a freekick was , this will look good but probably won't be a goal ! so stats disprove this ! ( I a bit like , only FF to beat , oh no)

[hypochondriac]

7 hours ago, rooney said:

I remember an article on him on the OS I think it was, from a past youth coach who said as he was about to sit down to his Christmas Dinner, he looked out the window and there was JWP on a training run out in the snow. Dedication indeed.

 

[rooney]

21 hours ago, The Kraken said:

Unlikely.

Snow on Christmas Day, I mean.

Might have been rain then, but the point was the relevant bit.

[RinNY]

The think I've noticed about JWP is that he is so sound. He doesn't have that little bit extra -- electric pace, creative vision, whatever -- that marks the real superstars; but if he did, let's face, he wouldn't be at Saints any more now. But if you watch our midfield play, the one player it's always safe to pass to is JWP. He does not mess up taking the pass, he does not get dispossessed, even if he's under pressure, his passes invariably reach the intended player. He just doesn't make mistakes. He is always involved in the play: defense and attack as well as patrolling the midfield; he'll crop up on either wing, or through the middle. He is naturally a box-to-box midfielder -- the fittest player on the pitch invariably-- but he can fill in at full back or winger if needed. As Ralph said, the guy is a machine. Lacking the little bit extra means he can be a career Saint, a natural captain, the foundation of our team for years. And then, he does have that special skill with the dead ball that puts him above the average solid midfielder. I just love watching him play, when I get the chance.

 

[Teddeer]

I confess to having never been a fan of JWP but he is winning me over and I think the reason is that he has added a bit of steel and nastiness to his play. He'll never be the quickest but, as others have said, he is reliable in possession. Also he has cut out many of the safe passes he was continually making and is now taking more risks which he should as he is a good passer of the ball. He has a good football brain and is certainly turning in some consistent displays now. Not sure he'll ever make an England squad but hope he will prove me wrong.

[Matthew Le God]

55 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

I confess to having never been a fan of JWP but he is winning me over and I think the reason is that he has added a bit of steel and nastiness to his play. He'll never be the quickest but, as others have said, he is reliable in possession. Also he has cut out many of the safe passes he was continually making and is now taking more risks which he should as he is a good passer of the ball. He has a good football brain and is certainly turning in some consistent displays now. Not sure he'll ever make an England squad but hope he will prove me wrong.

He already has. He has 2 England senior team caps!

[Teddeer]

Good point well made and I should have added the word 'again'.

[Dellman]

The signs are that if he is permanent captain the team will respond to his type of leadership--by example of commitment-more that they responded to Hoj and his arm waving. the midfield is performng better without Hoj, which is a good sign for the future.

[Saint Garrett]

Contract up July 2022 - time for a new deal? Deserves it I think.

[saintquin]

Quote

5 hours ago, Teddeer said:

I confess to having never been a fan of JWP but he is winning me over and I think the reason is that he has added a bit of steel and nastiness to his play. He'll never be the quickest but, as others have said, he is reliable in possession. Also he has cut out many of the safe passes he was continually making and is now taking more risks which he should as he is a good passer of the ball. He has a good football brain and is certainly turning in some consistent displays now. Not sure he'll ever make an England squad but hope he will prove me wrong.

 

It is strange how we don't really rate him as mush as a lot of fans from other clubs do. Agree he doesn't set the world alight in open play that many times but the commentator and Murthy both seem to think he's due a call up to the national side!

[austsaint]

8 hours ago, Teddeer said:

I confess to having never been a fan of JWP but he is winning me over and I think the reason is that he has added a bit of steel and nastiness to his play. He'll never be the quickest but, as others have said, he is reliable in possession. Also he has cut out many of the safe passes he was continually making and is now taking more risks which he should as he is a good passer of the ball. He has a good football brain and is certainly turning in some consistent displays now. Not sure he'll ever make an England squad but hope he will prove me wrong.

You speak for me too - I have been surprised by the improvement JWP has made this season.  You would have to say it's a reward for the lad working hard and benefitting from the faith and opportunities the Club has given him.     The old trait I used to get frustrated by was his tendency to run alongside an attacking player and mark space rather than harass, tackle or confront - he has improved that area of his game hugely.     Being braver with his passing range is the other marked improvement.      Ralph has to take a lot of credit for highlighting the areas of his game that needed improvement, and to JWP's credit he has delivered on that feedback.

[tajjuk]

I think he is playing similarly to how Morgan played with us, albeit probably being a little less physical. His work rate has always been there and he can run for days, but his tackling and interceptions have come on massively, he's generally a good passer as well, though the stats won't always back this up for any of our midfielders because I think they are encouraged to play the ball forward quickly into dangerous areas and such balls will have a low completion rate.

A year or two I seriously doubted his ability to play centre-mid, I thought he would end up being some sort of Beckham like wide playmaker, using his crossing and passing, as I didn't think he had the physicality and defensive game for those centre-mids spots but he's proven me wrong. 

Our most important player beside Ings now IMO. 

[Noodles34]

Lets get real, he is good enough for us but not good enough for any team better.

He is good, but not amazing, Matt Oakley like, miss him when he is not in the line up and obviously half (he misses more than he scores) decent at free kicks. No comparison to MS at the moment.No comparison to David Beckham and if he is in the England team, well, that would be a national worry.

In saying all that though, he is only 25, so it will be interesting to see how or even if, he develops? It has taken him a lot of game time to be a consistently average PL player.

[S-Clarke]

3 minutes ago, Noodles34 said:

Lets get real, he is good enough for us but not good enough for any team better.

He is good, but not amazing, Matt Oakley like, miss him when he is not in the line up and obviously half (he misses more than he scores) decent at free kicks. No comparison to MS at the moment.No comparison to David Beckham and if he is in the England team, well, that would be a national worry.

In saying all that though, he is only 25, so it will be interesting to see how or even if, he develops? It has taken him a lot of game time to be a consistently average PL player.

I think it's a bit harsh to compare him to Matt Oakley, I liked Matt but he was pretty average truth be told. JWP has something a little bit more in his locker and after this season I'm sure bigger clubs will be sniffing. 

What I think let's JWP down and one of the reason's he's still here, is his lack of pace and power. No problems with his football brain or football technique, it's right up there. Not much he can do about that his lack of pace, but he still gets around the ground more than anyone else. That's why I think we struggle sometimes - if he's played in the middle without any physicality, he gets overwhelmed a bit. We were lucky when we had Wanyama and Morgan through the middle, spoilt in fact.

[Saint_clark]

19 minutes ago, Noodles34 said:

Lets get real, he is good enough for us but not good enough for any team better.

He is good, but not amazing, Matt Oakley like, miss him when he is not in the line up and obviously half (he misses more than he scores) decent at free kicks. No comparison to MS at the moment.No comparison to David Beckham and if he is in the England team, well, that would be a national worry.

In saying all that though, he is only 25, so it will be interesting to see how or even if, he develops? It has taken him a lot of game time to be a consistently average PL player.

I hate the argument about freekicks about him missing loads. No player in history has scored more freekicks than they've missed. 

[tajjuk]

28 minutes ago, Noodles34 said:

Lets get real, he is good enough for us but not good enough for any team better.

He is good, but not amazing, Matt Oakley like, miss him when he is not in the line up and obviously half (he misses more than he scores) decent at free kicks. No comparison to MS at the moment.No comparison to David Beckham and if he is in the England team, well, that would be a national worry.

In saying all that though, he is only 25, so it will be interesting to see how or even if, he develops? It has taken him a lot of game time to be a consistently average PL player.

Half decent at free kicks seems harsh, he's score 1 less in the PL than Le Tiss IIRC in way less games. I don't think over the last 2-3 years there has been many more consistent set piece takers in the league than JWP.  Probably only De Bruyne scores as many and Man City probably get way more free kick chances than we do.

The only guy in the world that consistently scores like 5-6 direct free kicks in a season is Messi who is probably the best footballer of all time, if you look at everyone else then someone scoring 2-3 a season is amongst the more consistent takers and that is what JWP has done for the last few years. 

He's not like world class at them like Beckham, Messi or someone like Juninho Pernambucano, but I'd say he's very good at them. That one at Watford for example, very few players I think could have got that up and over the wall with that much dip from so close. 

30 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I think it's a bit harsh to compare him to Matt Oakley, I liked Matt but he was pretty average truth be told. JWP has something a little bit more in his locker and after this season I'm sure bigger clubs will be sniffing. 

What I think let's JWP down and one of the reason's he's still here, is his lack of pace and power. No problems with his football brain or football technique, it's right up there. Not much he can do about that his lack of pace, but he still gets around the ground more than anyone else. That's why I think we struggle sometimes - if he's played in the middle without any physicality, he gets overwhelmed a bit. We were lucky when we had Wanyama and Morgan through the middle, spoilt in fact.

Yeh his pace and power is what will stop him being a top player, he's probably further ahead at 25 than Henderson for example at 25 was, but Henderson has the advantage being bigger and being a more powerful unit. 

He can only work with what he has got and I think he has got stronger over the last year or so and teams to be more tenacious in his tackling even if bigger players can maybe shrug him off he doesn't leave them alone. 

[Noodles34]

34 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

I hate the argument about freekicks about him missing loads. No player in history has scored more freekicks than they've missed. 

yeah, on the whole, probably true, though that is a massive statement.... no player in history? I'd have a bet on you being wrong on that any day.

[Noodles34]

49 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I think it's a bit harsh to compare him to Matt Oakley, I liked Matt but he was pretty average truth be told. JWP has something a little bit more in his locker and after this season I'm sure bigger clubs will be sniffing. 

What I think let's JWP down and one of the reason's he's still here, is his lack of pace and power. No problems with his football brain or football technique, it's right up there. Not much he can do about that his lack of pace, but he still gets around the ground more than anyone else. That's why I think we struggle sometimes - if he's played in the middle without any physicality, he gets overwhelmed a bit. We were lucky when we had Wanyama and Morgan through the middle, spoilt in fact.

yes, because these days they have so much money they can just buy for possible potential/bigger squads for cups/taking players off rivals.

Is he good enough for a first team place in City/Liverpool ? No.

The rest, on a rotation basis, he could get in possibly, but would be a squad player at best.

[simo]

1 hour ago, Noodles34 said:

Lets get real, he is good enough for us but not good enough for any team better.

He is good, but not amazing, Matt Oakley like, miss him when he is not in the line up and obviously half (he misses more than he scores) decent at free kicks. No comparison to MS at the moment.No comparison to David Beckham and if he is in the England team, well, that would be a national worry.

In saying all that though, he is only 25, so it will be interesting to see how or even if, he develops? It has taken him a lot of game time to be a consistently average PL player.

For me he's a better player than Rice who is being touted for 70/80m , Better than Delph , Winks, Barkley and Loftus Cheek Who have all been playing for England!?

[Noodles34]

I'll give you Winks, but the rest, well, would not say better.

[S-Clarke]

57 minutes ago, Noodles34 said:

I'll give you Winks, but the rest, well, would not say better.

He's got a better attitude than Barkley, but Barkley has that pace and strength over him.

I'm fairly confident that he's a level or two above bloody Delph though!

[It's There]

I'm not sure I agree about the pace. It seems to me he is markedly quicker and fitter. I would have him over Barkley any day.

 

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

He's got a better attitude than Barkley, but Barkley has that pace and strength over him.

I'm fairly confident that he's a level or two above bloody Delph though!

Can't even say Delph is a more experienced premier league player as JWP has played nearly 50 games more. 

Side note, JWP is on course to potentially make over 500 Premier League appearances for us if he stays his whole career and we don't go down...possibly putting him in the top 10 for all time Prem appearances. Nuts really if it happens. 

Edited 7 July, 2020 by Saint_clark

[RinNY]

8 hours ago, Noodles34 said:

Lets get real, he is good enough for us but not good enough for any team better.

He is good, but not amazing, Matt Oakley like, miss him when he is not in the line up and obviously half (he misses more than he scores) decent at free kicks. No comparison to MS at the moment.No comparison to David Beckham and if he is in the England team, well, that would be a national worry.

In saying all that though, he is only 25, so it will be interesting to see how or even if, he develops? It has taken him a lot of game time to be a consistently average PL player.

We missed the hell out of Oakley when he got injured: took us a couple of seasons to replace him adequately: the kind of composed, consistent, effective player every team needs: gets hardly any credit, but leaves a huge hole in the team when not available. JWP is indeed like that: a terrier of a player. He's never likely to be the kind of player a top six club will try to sign away from us, but that's all to the good! I agree with those pointing out that he has added an edge of aggressiveness to his game the past two seasons, under Ralph. I recall Ralph pointing out that JWP needed to get a but stronger and add more power to his game, and he has done it. An ever-present on the team sheet for a reason.

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, RinNY said:

An ever-present on the team sheet for a reason.

Yes, the lack of alternatives. 

[Hodgey]

I’m shocked at how little some rate him. He’s good for 4-5 goals a season and is everywhere, him and Ings are our best players by a mile. Whilst I agree he isn’t top 4 material - he’d get in Spurs / Arsenal / Everton / Wolves / Leicester teams - and be a regular in most. He’s picked up the captaincy with ease and looks to be doing a better job. I’ll tell you this - I don’t see us finding anyone better if he does leave.

[tajjuk]

8 hours ago, Hodgey said:

I’m shocked at how little some rate him. He’s good for 4-5 goals a season and is everywhere, him and Ings are our best players by a mile. Whilst I agree he isn’t top 4 material - he’d get in Spurs / Arsenal / Everton / Wolves / Leicester teams - and be a regular in most. He’s picked up the captaincy with ease and looks to be doing a better job. I’ll tell you this - I don’t see us finding anyone better if he does leave.

Most of us rate him, fans of other clubs rate him and pundits rate him, plus Ralph obviously rates him, it's just a few weirdos on here that don't. 

[Mosin]

2 hours ago, tajjuk said:

Most of us rate him, fans of other clubs rate him and pundits rate him, plus Ralph obviously rates him, it's just a few weirdos on here that don't. 

Been saying that for years................ Was always told I knew nothing about football and he was league 1 standard at best.... Lol 

 

Good thing saints web managers are the best in the world...

Edited 8 July, 2020 by Mosin
Typo

[Dellman]

And Hughes kept him on the bench

[Noodles34]

6 hours ago, tajjuk said:

Most of us rate him, fans of other clubs rate him and pundits rate him, plus Ralph obviously rates him, it's just a few weirdos on here that don't. 

Football opinions are subjective at the best of times, and that is what they are, an opinion. Some will think JWP can do more, some will think he cannot. If you are expecting him to score 10 goals a season then i guess you are going to be underplaying his talents. Being called weird because your own view of his ability differs from others is pretty ironic.

[Baird of the land]

 A few years ago I think most would of scoffed at notion of JWP as the hard tackling engine room of the midfield. He seems to have the right work ethic which has given him the chance to 

emerge as a real force in that position. With the Euros delayed he must have a real shot of making the England squad if he keeps this level up into next season.

 

[igsey]

4 hours ago, Dellman said:

And Hughes kept him on the bench

If that's not an endorsement of his talents, I don't know what is!

[Teddeer]

He'll be very disappointed with that penalty tonight and rightly so. Criminal not to at least it the target and poor technique to hit such a rising shot. Not even any crowd noise to put extra pressure on so no excuses. I'd be happier if Ings was given the job going forward.

[Hodgey]

Was a poor kick - he got underneath it, unusual for a technical player. Given Ings form I think handing him pens is fair - that said everyone was missing pens for us before JWP steadied the ship so I get why he took it. I actually thought JWP had a solid game today but there were a few poor passes - wonder if he’s fatigued

[trousers]

Two inches lower and we'd be raving what a cracking penalty it was... #finemargins

[Teddeer]

No need to hit a penalty anywhere near the crossbar. Too risky.

[Ted Bates Statue]

I forgot he had missed against Arsenal in November as he scored the rebound. So that's two he's missed this season - not great for a dead ball maestro, and considering Ings is still in with a chance for the golden boot.

[skintsaint]

Always happens with players who hit penalties hard, some tend to rise.....will be surprising if Ings wouldn't be taking them from now on when in his form.

[Noodles34]

Lot to do with Pickford in goal. 
he saves a lot and I guess a taker is going to try harder to put the ball somewhere he can’t go, which is what I reckon JWP tried to do.  

[EBS1980]

If you go high the keeper isn’t going to save it, you just have to get it on target.

if you go low then the keeper has a chance and you need to get it on target.

it’s fine margins, he’s our set piece specialist so I wouldn’t go changing it just because he missed against Everton 

 

[LaptopSaint]

And let's face it, it wasn't a penalty anyway. Karma I reckon.

[the saint in winchester]

We've all complimented JWP, so only fair he takes criticism for last night.

Went down softly, and hopeless penalty. I think we all want to see Ingsy on the next one.

[trousers]

6 minutes ago, the saint in winchester said:

hopeless penalty

I know I'm sounding like a scratched record on this point, but why is a penalty shot that misses the target by an inch or two invariably deemed to be "hopeless", yet a penalty shot that goes into the corner by an inch or two is invariably deemed to be "perfect"?

If JWP had skied it into row Z then, yes, I'd agree: woeful penalty. Could it not be argued that his penalty last night was "not far off perfect"....?

[Greenridge]

2 hours ago, trousers said:

I know I'm sounding like a scratched record on this point, but why is a penalty shot that misses the target by an inch or two invariably deemed to be "hopeless", yet a penalty shot that goes into the corner by an inch or two is invariably deemed to be "perfect"?

If JWP had skied it into row Z then, yes, I'd agree: woeful penalty. Could it not be argued that his penalty last night was "not far off perfect"....?

It's a pretty simple digital scenario. In is great. Miss is effin &£$*. It's 24'x8'. A professional should be hitting it from 12 yards.

Edited 10 July, 2020 by Greenridge

[Saint86]

JWP is the best penalty taker we have currently. He hit the bar yesterday, if it had been an inch and a half lower then people would queuing up with praise. If he misses again then its different as that starts to become a mental issue.

[skintsaint]

1 hour ago, Saint86 said:

JWP is the best penalty taker we have currently. He hit the bar yesterday, if it had been an inch and a half lower then people would queuing up with praise. If he misses again then its different as that starts to become a mental issue.

In their careers so far...Ings has taken 8 in his career and missed 2. JWP taken 7....and now missed 2.

Edited 10 July, 2020 by skintsaint