Is the Premier League too rich for us?

[Miltonaggro]

I've been considering this thread since April, and yes, I think that the Premier League probably is too rich for us...

[Toussaint]

3 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

If you feel humiliated by your team being relegated then I feel sorry for you. It's only a game.

Oh, I understand now, it wasn’t apparent from your prickly response, but I totally disagree, please spare your sympathy. 

Edited 8 October, 2021 by Toussaint

[Dellman]

8 hours ago, Nordic Saint said:

I've been going to Saints games since 1963 and I consider myself a true football fan. For me, it's the top flight and you get to see the best players. Being in it brings prestige to the club you support, whereas being out of it, like Portsmouth are at the moment, can leave you feeling envious. Like many old fans, I'm a bit of a traditionalist and would prefer things to stay the same. I was happy enough with the old Division 1 but everything changes over time and we have to accept that. It's still the top tier of English football and that's where a club of our size belongs. Fans of clubs like Derby and Nottingham Forest, currently stuck in the 2nd tier, will be feeling the same way.

Well said! I've been going to Saints games even longer-1946, with Ted Bates and Alf Ramsey and Ian Black in goal so I am used to many struggles and some triumphs. In those Third Division days (50s) we would not have believed we would be in the top tier for ten years running and reach five semi finals. For a Club which has never had the fashion, the fame or the financial backing others have had, we've done brilliantly. Somehow, in spite of all the unbelievable changes and the boon of billionaire ownership for the few--we still hang in there and compete with the best. Be proud and lets fully back players and manager and Board, what they have achieved is truly remarkable.  

[Turkish]

Getting bored with all the bullshit about how Newcastle deserve to be at the top of the league. They’ve had about one good spell in 50 years, even we’ve won a major trophy more recently than them. Such a self entitled club who for some reason the media adore 

[Hayling Saint]

45 minutes ago, Dellman said:

Well said! I've been going to Saints games even longer-1946, with Ted Bates and Alf Ramsey and Ian Black in goal so I am used to many struggles and some triumphs. In those Third Division days (50s) we would not have believed we would be in the top tier for ten years running and reach five semi finals. For a Club which has never had the fashion, the fame or the financial backing others have had, we've done brilliantly. Somehow, in spite of all the unbelievable changes and the boon of billionaire ownership for the few--we still hang in there and compete with the best. Be proud and lets fully back players and manager and Board, what they have achieved is truly remarkable.  

So well said, only 50 years for me, but agree with all that you have said.

[JRM]

52 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Getting bored with all the bullshit about how Newcastle deserve to be at the top of the league. They’ve had about one good spell in 50 years, even we’ve won a major trophy more recently than them. Such a self entitled club who for some reason the media adore 

Agree mate, just like the skates they invest so much time and energy promoting the myth about their loyal and passionate fan base. And let me tell you this, I'd love it if they went down this season, love it. 

[benjii]

https://amp.ft.com/content/1855b290-d02c-4f9e-b05b-d67df1ec350e?__twitter_impression=true

Pretty much nails it. Shabby downward spiralling country gets the cultural custodians it deserves (Goa included).

 

[IFHP]

12 hours ago, JRM said:

Agree mate, just like the skates they invest so much time and energy promoting the myth about their loyal and passionate fan base. And let me tell you this, I'd love it if they went down this season, love it. 

How's that song go....

Gerodies going down with a Billion in the bank.....

[spyinthesky]

20 hours ago, Hayling Saint said:

So well said, only 50 years for me, but agree with all that you have said.

And me.

My Dad's generation really believed that the Saints Board didnt want promotion to the top division (Div 1) as they didnt have the funds to survive.

This belief came after the team surrendered a very comfortable points advantage in the latter 1940's and missed out on promotion due to goal advantage.

They nearly did it the following year then dropped down into the old Third Division when I started going regularly.

From then on I enjoyed watching a free scoring team which eventually made the top division in 1966.

Although we have done pretty well in comparison to many bigger clubs most of our time in the top division has been a struggle.

All that said, if someone had said to me, as a nipper, that I would watch my team play regularly in the top division, with a team often full of international

players, follow them into Europe, as a Second Tier team watch them beat one of the country's top teams at Wembley in the FA Cup and move from a

cramped and outdated stadium to a modern all seater, I would have advised them to keep off the booze.

To be a proper fan you have to mix the highs with the lows and that what irritates me with so called 'fans' of the top 6 who have missed out on the hard times and become very vocal and irritated when things go wrong at 'their' club, often situated miles away from where they live!!

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Be interesting to see what happens this summer.  I know the owners are trying to get a competitive advantage via analytics but you have to spend money in this league to stand still.

We lost to a Palace team today who spent £75m+ net in the summer.  

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, Lallana's Left Peg said:

Be interesting to see what happens this summer.  I know the owners are trying to get a competitive advantage via analytics but you have to spend money in this league to stand still.

We lost to a Palace team today who spent £75m+ net in the summer.  

If we have another crap summer, I will wonder what the point of ‘selecting’ these owners was all about?!

[Dman]

8 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

If we have another crap summer, I will wonder what the point of ‘selecting’ these owners was all about?!

I suspect the selecting process was more about who would allow semmens and co to stay in a job. 

[Dman]

16 minutes ago, Lallana's Left Peg said:

Be interesting to see what happens this summer.  I know the owners are trying to get a competitive advantage via analytics but you have to spend money in this league to stand still.

We lost to a Palace team today who spent £75m+ net in the summer.  

Ahhh I wondered what this years excuse would be. 
 

Last season they blamed injuries, this season they blame ££. Basically anything but the manager. 
 

Invest or lack of doesn’t seem to have impacted Brentford, who are basically playing with the same side they had in the championship last season. 

Edited 30 April, 2022 by Dman

[farawaysaint]

I think in the recent Deloitte money league we are the 25th Richest club in the world? If the premier league is too rich for us there is something damningly wrong with modern football (which we all knew anyway).

Edited 30 April, 2022 by farawaysaint

[Lallana's Left Peg]

We're about to find out this summer, as ending up with largely the same team and squad come September I'd make us firm favourites for a bottom four finish.  This club has no means and the quality of our squad has been eroded on each year for the last 4 years.  Clock is ticking.

[S-Clarke]

28 minutes ago, Lallana's Left Peg said:

We're about to find out this summer, as ending up with largely the same team and squad come September I'd make us firm favourites for a bottom four finish.  This club has no means and the quality of our squad has been eroded on each year for the last 4 years.  Clock is ticking.

Agreed, big test this summer. Everton and Leeds aren't going to be as bad next year and automatically that's two teams below us out of the equation. 

I cannot deal with another season of Redmond, McCarthy, Moussa, Theo, Long, Bednarek, Stephens. I just can't. It would finish me off.

[Matthew Le God]

11 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Everton and Leeds aren't going to be as bad next year and automatically that's two teams below us out of the equation. 

Not sure why not on both of those points. Both might lose some important players. They both have big summers for recruitment like we do.

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said:

Not sure why not on both of those points. Both might lose some important players. They both have big summers for recruitment like we do.

Both of those teams have better players than us though, they've both underachieved this year so even without radical changes for both of those I'd still expect them to improve.

[nta786]

1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said:

Not sure why not on both of those points. Both might lose some important players. They both have big summers for recruitment like we do.

Both bigger than us, and will possibly have a greater net spend than we do. I think Leeds will probably will be there around with us though, I'm hoping their board think their season was more due to Bamford, Kalvin being out and so that final win is more a papering over the cracks kinda thing.

Now MLG, I can already picture your response of "how do you know they will spend more than us" because truth is I don't know what our finances are like under the new ownership, can only go off what we have already seen and the soundbites we have heard.

[John Boy Saint]

1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

Not sure why not on both of those points. Both might lose some important players. They both have big summers for recruitment like we do.

surely Everton have to sell quite a bit before they can buy anything of any use - because their tuppence ha’penny from finishing position  ain’t going to buy much.

[skintsaint]

Football getting too rich for us, players now starting to have the power if this is true.

[East Kent Saint]

On 08/10/2021 at 19:18, Turkish said:

Getting bored with all the bullshit about how Newcastle deserve to be at the top of the league. They’ve had about one good spell in 50 years, even we’ve won a major trophy more recently than them. Such a self entitled club who for some reason the media adore 

According to the Guardian today the Govt spent months trying to push through the Saudi takeover , despite all the denials by Johnson. One of his lords appointments behind it under his bringing investment to the UK brief !

[John B]

Apparently Spurs have £150m and Chelsea £200m to spend this summer so I think the answer to the original question is Yes

 

I have been following the club for over 60 years from when we were in Div 3 South

 

I do not really care what league we play in as following Saints is just something to do although obviously I would like us to win more often but realise that we will be  to be in the bottom half of the PL until we are eventually relegated

 

I try not to rubbish the players and the manager too much because they are only doing a job against other teams which generally have better players especially strikers

 

We are short of really top class players at the moment  as only a couple or so of the current squad would get anywhere near to my top 50 Saints players I have seen

 

Luckily I have been following for the same amount of time Hampshire who have some really decent players have won trophies and are competive in most competitions

[Saint Garrett]

The premier league is getting too rich for us definitely.

Teams that have a higher capability of spending than us:

"Big 6", West Ham, Newcastle, Leicester, Wolves, Villa, Palace, Brighton, 
 

Teams that we might be able to compete with:

Bournemouth, Fulham, Forest / Huddersfield, Leeds, Brentford, Everton.

 

However, you could argue Forest/Huddersfield, Bournemouth, Fulham, will all spend more money than us this summer, and Everton have got a better squad right now. Brentford might not spend big amounts but they're incredibly well run, and have a real team ethic.  Leeds will have a bunch of players back from injury, and likely will spend.

We are rightly going to be very high in the relegation stakes next year, and highly likely the more years go past, without proper investment, we will find ourselves out of this league. Will be very interesting to see how Fulham go about this summer, given their last few visits to the premier league.

[Matthew Le God]

1 hour ago, Saint Garrett said:

The premier league is getting too rich for us definitely.

Teams that have a higher capability of spending than us:

"Big 6", West Ham, Newcastle, Leicester, Wolves, Villa, Palace, Brighton, 
 

Teams that we might be able to compete with:

Bournemouth, Fulham, Forest / Huddersfield, Leeds, Brentford, Everton.

We don't know what the spending capacity is under the new owners.

[Saint Garrett]

22 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

We don't know what the spending capacity is under the new owners.

True, but nothing so far suggests they’re ploughing huge amounts into transfer budgets and there have been comments from various that the model won’t change. Time will only tell. But it will be a bonus if we suddenly find £100m to spend. I’m not expecting it 

[Turkish]

17 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

True, but nothing so far suggests they’re ploughing huge amounts into transfer budgets and there have been comments from various that the model won’t change. Time will only tell. But it will be a bonus if we suddenly find £100m to spend. I’m not expecting it 

they've even said they wont be

"Kraft said: "We will be an active and engaged owner, but we will not be starting any revolutions.

"We were attracted to Southampton because it is already a well-run club that follows a clearly defined strategy.

[Smirking_Saint]

On 22/05/2022 at 18:53, Matthew Le God said:

Not sure why not on both of those points.

Apart from the better squads and budgets of course ?

[Sarnia Cherie]

On 25/05/2022 at 04:10, skintsaint said:

Football getting too rich for us, players now starting to have the power if this is true.

I absolutely love football but this is an obscene amount of money to be paying Mbappe. He kicks a ball around a patch of grass and is deemed to be worth a fortune for doing it. Where on earth will it all end? How do PSG square Fair Play with a deal like this? What will the likes of Neymar have to say? I hope he has a rubbish season. 

[skintsaint]

13 minutes ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

What will the likes of Neymar have to say?

Hope he doesn't say anything too bad or Mbappe will sell him.

[Turkish]

14 minutes ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

I absolutely love football but this is an obscene amount of money to be paying Mbappe. He kicks a ball around a patch of grass and is deemed to be worth a fortune for doing it. Where on earth will it all end? How do PSG square Fair Play with a deal like this? What will the likes of Neymar have to say? I hope he has a rubbish season. 

They dont seem to care. Already made loses of over €700m last few seasons. Read somewhere La Liga were going to report them to UEFA, presumably bitter because Mbappe appeared to be heading to Real Madrid but they do have a point. Aside from the money having a player approving the coach and signings is insane. 

[badgerx16]

I didn't know our finances were that bad.....

 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

I didn't know our finances were that bad.....

 

I'm pleased we've cleared that big loan, to be left with a whole £1. 🙂

[skintsaint]

1 hour ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

I'm pleased we've cleared that big loan, to be left with a whole £1. 🙂

That was enough for Venables to buy Pompey if my memory serves me right 😅

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 minute ago, skintsaint said:

That was enough for Venables to buy Pompey if my memory serves me right 😅

Good point. It's important we don't waste the £1 by overspending on rubbish. 🙂

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Looks like the Premier League may well be back to being too rich for us.

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, Lallana's Left Peg said:

Looks like the Premier League may well be back to being too rich for us.

Dont we already have a loan to that tune? Maybe it's just a refinancing of that given the other loan was on some sort of crazy high interest level. Although with rates going up a lot since then maybe not? Who knows. 

[david in sweden]

18 minutes ago, Lallana's Left Peg said:

Looks like the Premier League may well be back to being too rich for us.

A quick look at the Prem. summer signings answers that.   We signed 9  (or was 10 ) new players for just £60 million, whilst a number

of other " big " clubs paid that sum for just ONE player.  We are batting way above our level, (and in all honesty)  are grateful to survive

each season as long as there has been 3 clubs worse than us.   There is now a great danger that we may become one of those three. 

 

[hackedoff]

Not necessarily too poor for this league,but probably too naive.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

I'm beginning to think it is clearly too rich for us.  The worst club in the division by far and the least amount of investment - hardly a correlation of co-incidence.  Remarkable that we can be outbid for players by the likes of Bournemouth.

All we've got is the platform of Premier League football to attract emerging young players.  And that platform is about to disappear.

[saint1977]

There are clubs that have spent less than SFC doing better but the decision making has been dreadful. And that’s being very generous. Bazanu, lack of 2 frontline strikers, Aribo, selling Oriol, the midget LB.

Honestly, if Mandaric and John Westwood had bought the club, they couldn’t have dreamed of this much damage this fast.

Get rid of Jones, Ankerson to his Turkish 3rd division toy, Semmens out, get Benitez in, best budget in the Champ and the club could bounce back quickly under SR. 

[SotonianWill]

https://youtu.be/sSvWYsSTQek 

 

what it was vs what it is now, some nice shots of the dell in this video as well. 

[Turkish]

On 25/01/2023 at 12:53, Lallana's Left Peg said:

I'm beginning to think it is clearly too rich for us.  The worst club in the division by far and the least amount of investment - hardly a correlation of co-incidence.  Remarkable that we can be outbid for players by the likes of Bournemouth.

All we've got is the platform of Premier League football to attract emerging young players.  And that platform is about to disappear.

Since we sold Van Dijk we’ve probably spunked best part of £250m on shite in transfer fees and probably the same again in wages. It isn’t that we’re too poor it’s that the management of this club has been criminally bad.

[hypochondriac]

15 hours ago, Turkish said:

Since we sold Van Dijk we’ve probably spunked best part of £250m on shite in transfer fees and probably the same again in wages. It isn’t that we’re too poor it’s that the management of this club has been criminally bad.

Whilst I agree, I do think to a degree that we simply don't have the cash to spend on real quality so anything we do buy will be a gamble. I think at the very top end we would sanction a 25 million pound signing but that's the equivalent of about 15 from a few seasons ago. We clearly aren't prepared to pay the 30 million plus required for the top end talent for teams like West ham and villa etc and I expect the bigger players aren't really prepared to come here. We've clearly also had a mindset change from a few years ago where we think more small-time and that has an impact too. Brighton are having their moment in the sun but I'd like to see then in 5-7 years as I expect they will be in the same position as we are now. 

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Whilst I agree, I do think to a degree that we simply don't have the cash to spend on real quality so anything we do buy will be a gamble. I think at the very top end we would sanction a 25 million pound signing but that's the equivalent of about 15 from a few seasons ago. We clearly aren't prepared to pay the 30 million plus required for the top end talent for teams like West ham and villa etc and I expect the bigger players aren't really prepared to come here. We've clearly also had a mindset change from a few years ago where we think more small-time and that has an impact too. Brighton are having their moment in the sun but I'd like to see then in 5-7 years as I expect they will be in the same position as we are now. 

This is how I see it to be honest, we've not moved with the times. I don't agree with how expensive football has become and the transfer fee's that are floating around, it's insane, but if you don't join in then you're pretty much gone as a competitive club.

Like you said, the £15m we spent on the likes of Boufal and Lemina a few years ago would now likely equate to more in the £30m range for similar levels of players - Weston McKinnie being a fine example of that. We just haven't been able to move on from our 15-20m ish range - so much so that the only players we can now get in that range are academy youngsters without any first team football, as the seasoned pro's are now above that figure.

We have spent a lot of money from the sale of VVD and co, but it never really went above that 15-20m range on a single player and that will forever hold us back if we're fixated on that. So, if that is the case then this league is almost certainly too rich for us and we're only going one way.

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

This is how I see it to be honest, we've not moved with the times. I don't agree with how expensive football has become and the transfer fee's that are floating around, it's insane, but if you don't join in then you're pretty much gone as a competitive club.

Like you said, the £15m we spent on the likes of Boufal and Lemina a few years ago would now likely equate to more in the £30m range for similar levels of players - Weston McKinnie being a fine example of that. We just haven't been able to move on from our 15-20m ish range - so much so that the only players we can now get in that range are academy youngsters without any first team football, as the seasoned pro's are now above that figure.

We have spent a lot of money from the sale of VVD and co, but it never really went above that 15-20m range on a single player and that will forever hold us back if we're fixated on that. So, if that is the case then this league is almost certainly too rich for us and we're only going one way.

Quite similar to the Lowe era in some ways but with updated figures. 

[Turkish]

49 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Whilst I agree, I do think to a degree that we simply don't have the cash to spend on real quality so anything we do buy will be a gamble. I think at the very top end we would sanction a 25 million pound signing but that's the equivalent of about 15 from a few seasons ago. We clearly aren't prepared to pay the 30 million plus required for the top end talent for teams like West ham and villa etc and I expect the bigger players aren't really prepared to come here. We've clearly also had a mindset change from a few years ago where we think more small-time and that has an impact too. Brighton are having their moment in the sun but I'd like to see then in 5-7 years as I expect they will be in the same position as we are now. 

Depends how you look at it. We've spunked £50m+ on a load of shite centre backs trying to be clever and thinking of resale value, when we could have paid £3m for Jonny Evans or Craig Dawson the experienced leader we've been crying out for okay we'd have had to pay him a bit more but he certainly wouldn't have cost more in wages than Hoedt and Vestergaard and we'd have saved £35m in transfer fees.

in the forward positions we've spent £60m on Adams, Armstrong, Elyanoussi and Djenepo, only one of them has looked a vaguely competent premier league player in their time here, ones hardly played, another farmed out on loan for 2 seasons and i look a better premier league striker than Armstrong. They'll all be on £50-£60k a week. You're not telling me we couldn't have signed two far superior players for £25-£30m and £100k a week in those positions.

I have always maintained the best route for clubs like us is a first 11 of a core of good experienced older players, in goal, centre back and centre midfield, around the 30 years old mark and get 2-3 season out of them, 2-3 YHGTIers and then 3 players of quality. Yes you'd pay them more but ultimately 3 good players doing something is a lot better than 6 crap ones not contributing anything. the problem is when every signing is a cheap gamble or YHGTIer with hardly any seasoned players around them then you're always going to leave yourself open to it all going tits up, like it is now.

 

Edited 30 January, 2023 by Turkish

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Depends how you look at it. We've spunked £50m+ on a load of shite centre backs trying to be clever and thinking of resale value, when we could have paid £3m for Jonny Evans or Craig Dawson the experienced leader we've been crying out for okay we'd have had to pay him a bit more but he certainly wouldn't have cost more in wages than Hoedt and Vestergaard and we'd have saved £35m in transfer fees.

in the forward positions we've spent £60m on Adams, Armstrong, Elyanoussi and Djenepo, only one of them has looked a vaguely competent premier league player in their time here, ones hardly played, another farmed out on loan for 2 seasons and i look a better premier league striker than Armstrong. They'll all be on £50-£60k a week. You're not telling me we couldn't have signed two far superior players for £25-£30m and £100k a week in those positions.

I have always maintained the best route for clubs like us is a first 11 of a core of good experienced older players, in goal, centre back and centre midfield, around the 30 years old mark and get 2-3 season out of them, 2-3 YHGTIers and then 3 players of quality. Yes you'd pay them more but ultimately 3 good players doing something is a lot better than 6 crap ones not contributing anything. the problem is when every signing is a cheap gamble or YHGTIer with hardly any seasoned players around them then you're always going to leave yourself open to it all going tits up, like it is now.

 

Good Post and I agree. Its probably a bit of both of our posts to be honest. 

In an alternate reality, the likes of Bazunu, Larios and Edozie would have been really decent signings if we had got in some seasoned pros like you had mentioned and then we wouldn't have to have relied on then so much but maybe then they wouldn't have come here in the first place. I do think that if/when we go down this year that one of the factors will have been our aversion to getting in some Premier league experience and relying to heavily on unknowns and kids. 

[Turkish]

5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Good Post and I agree. Its probably a bit of both of our posts to be honest. 

In an alternate reality, the likes of Bazunu, Larios and Edozie would have been really decent signings if we had got in some seasoned pros like you had mentioned and then we wouldn't have to have relied on then so much but maybe then they wouldn't have come here in the first place. I do think that if/when we go down this year that one of the factors will have been our aversion to getting in some Premier league experience and relying to heavily on unknowns and kids. 

Yeah you're right, they would have been great signings if they were able to be brought in and out with quality or experienced players to help them out. As it is they've had to come in and hit the ground running straight away because some spreadsheet somewhere told those making decisions it was a good idea.

and another thing. When you've got a load of kids with hardly any first team experience you need a manager who aura who has been there and done it to lead them, not some bloke with a chip on his shoulder whose only ever managed championship level or below. We've gambled on a load of young players who have never played in the premier league, led by a bloke who has never managed in it. Unless you're very lucky then it doesn't take a genius to see why it's not working.

Edited 30 January, 2023 by Turkish

[skintsaint]

Well it looks like we are stuck with the super rich for a while longer. Shame as wanted them to all fook off.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64536218