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1 minute ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I'm expecting fucking dazzling toilets for the next year whilst he works his notice.

Get him behind the concourse bar and get those beers in the customers hands faster ffs.  Cortese promised this before and it never happened; get on it Jase.

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On 01/04/2024 at 23:20, Patches O Houlihan said:

 

This feels right on the money tonight

So... if you practice that for 10years, you'll basically have no knackers left to hurt? It really is a very good analogy for being a saints fan 🤣

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19 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

Man U are being completely tin pot for the supposed richest club in the world.

Cheapskates with Ashworth and with Wilcox, they dont seem to think they should pay a premium to steal someone else's employee.

Hope they continue to be shit for another 10 yrs

They are Sir Jim Ratcliffe is a nut job and really unpopular in Manchester. His INEOS has been responsible for various environmental “ issues “ in Manchester for years. At one time he threatened to move INEOS out of the U.K. if the government continued to prosecute him. 
I know political United fans that are building up an opposition movement against him. His  plans don’t just include the club but grandiose schemes to redevelopment huge areas of Manchester. 
Sort of more extreme versions we keep hearing like the Bargate Centre or Debenhams being turned into wonderlands.

A theory up there is the scattergun plans to revitalise United were to get people on his side. I remember the day this first appeared . There were zillions of stories about quickly sorting out the management team, signing Mbappe, all sorts new managers were drip fed into the media. There were United fans on this first day buying the lot hook line and sinker.

I don’t doubt for a minute the reboot of this story and the timing was an attempt to show Uniteds perseverance.

yep I guess little relevance to Saints fans other than Wilcox has been promised the earth. More money less responsibility. Good riddance to him. 

 

 

 

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23 hours ago, notnowcato said:

The fact it hit the main stream media during half time of a really important match for us is a fucking disgrace. Whoever is at fault for this, suspect it’s a manc, has shown zero class and respect to us. Fuck off, good luck in that disgrace of a club. Cunts. 

I suspect Ratcliffe had a hand in that given his reputation. He isn't a nice bit of work and we dared to say no to him and dig our heals in... Having a little stir of the club/fanbase's morale on the evening of a season defining match just summarises the spite of the man frankly.

I don't know what our choices are, but if Wilcox has to give 1 years notice then i would make him work it through the summer as a minimum. The bloke banged on about integrity when he joined, and he's an ex player with familiarity to contracts and transfers between clubs - so lets see some. Equally though, if United think early april is sufficient time to plan their summer, then Saints should be able to do similar, albeit from a slightly later starting point... And it is only Jason Wilcox at the end of the day... If he were irreplaceable we'd be in the automatics with a raft of his signings as our standout key players. As it is, he's presided over some suspect deals - the rothwell/Alcaraz loans (swap out) in particular were bizarre to me, as is the mess at full back (which i was moaning about since pre-season and has avoidably cost us points). Our best attackers seem to still be Stu, AA, and Fraser (just coincidence that they're all Scottish and mates with the manager? 😅), and the JWP sale remains pivotal in my mind as to why we aren't getting promoted - for a side that relies on possession in midfield and pressing and intensity out of it, we chose £30M and smallbone over promotion.... You could argue that £15M of that went on Charles who barely plays as well.

Plus side though, Sports Republic know exactly what they're doing going into another summer of complete upheaval at the club (3rd time's the charm right?🤩).

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Wilcox did do well in getting value for the players we sold last summer. But....

He didn't find us a working striker. He hasn't solved our keeping issues. He oversaw unneeded recruitment in January which has unbalanced our side.

He's clearly wanting out and doesn't believe in his own project.

Man Utd is a massive shit show no sane human would want in on. Except the money. On the plus side if there is a side in the world that needs "just one more attacking midfielder" it's Utd so seems like a match made in heaven.

Get as much compensation as we can and pretend we hope the door doesn't hit him too hard on the way out. Right now in addition to not being on top of strategy he's an unnecessary distraction.

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2 minutes ago, coalman said:

Wilcox did do well in getting value for the players we sold last summer. But....

He didn't find us a working striker. He hasn't solved our keeping issues. He oversaw unneeded recruitment in January which has unbalanced our side.

He's clearly wanting out and doesn't believe in his own project.

Man Utd is a massive shit show no sane human would want in on. Except the money. On the plus side if there is a side in the world that needs "just one more attacking midfielder" it's Utd so seems like a match made in heaven.

Get as much compensation as we can and pretend we hope the door doesn't hit him too hard on the way out. Right now in addition to not being on top of strategy he's an unnecessary distraction.

The club don't believe there are GK issues though, so in their eyes/his eyes there was never anything to solve on that one.

Anyone would take the shot at Man Utd if they were offered the chance. People call them a mess, but it's Manchester United - globally one of the biggest names in sport, who wouldn't be excited to go in there at a time when they have a chance to breathe some life into it? 

I'm disappointed he's off at the first shot though, and it shows a lack of loyalty, but by the same token this is probably a once in a lifetime opportunity for him (and he gets to move back to where his roots are). From his personal POV I imagine he wants it and it will happen, the club will play the woe-be-me line crying about compo for a while...but that won't help us planning for his replacement. Hopefully SR have more luck with the next appointment because to have the same situation occur again, after Shields, is a bit naff.

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1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

The club don't believe there are GK issues though, so in their eyes/his eyes there was never anything to solve on that one.

Anyone would take the shot at Man Utd if they were offered the chance. People call them a mess, but it's Manchester United - globally one of the biggest names in sport, who wouldn't be excited to go in there at a time when they have a chance to breathe some life into it? 

I'm disappointed he's off at the first shot though, and it shows a lack of loyalty, but by the same token this is probably a once in a lifetime opportunity for him (and he gets to move back to where his roots are). From his personal POV I imagine he wants it and it will happen, the club will play the woe-be-me line crying about compo for a while...but that won't help us planning for his replacement. Hopefully SR have more luck with the next appointment because to have the same situation occur again, after Shields, is a bit naff.

Isn't this a damning indictment of every person involved in the running our football club? We were told at the fans forum that Baz was some kind of goalkeeping genius. There was an anger and arrogance towards any criticism of him.  Yet, once again, he sits rock bottom of the stats for his league.

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1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

The club don't believe there are GK issues though, so in their eyes/his eyes there was never anything to solve on that one.

Anyone would take the shot at Man Utd if they were offered the chance. People call them a mess, but it's Manchester United - globally one of the biggest names in sport, who wouldn't be excited to go in there at a time when they have a chance to breathe some life into it? 

I'm disappointed he's off at the first shot though, and it shows a lack of loyalty, but by the same token this is probably a once in a lifetime opportunity for him (and he gets to move back to where his roots are). From his personal POV I imagine he wants it and it will happen, the club will play the woe-be-me line crying about compo for a while...but that won't help us planning for his replacement. Hopefully SR have more luck with the next appointment because to have the same situation occur again, after Shields, is a bit naff.

Broadly agree, and can understand it at a personal level but it doesn’t say anything positive about the job he’s done at SFC or his belief in it. It smacks of running away from his own mistakes to going back to being a cog again in a huge wheel instead of a leader. Drops Martin right in it, no protection now if he doesn’t win the play offs, I think SR will sack him if he doesn’t as there’s clearly frustration at the trajectory of results all-round and sheer amount of tinkering and experimentation at this stage of the season.

Norwich are likely to part company with Wagner even if they make the top 6 so I reckon Martin goes there.

Wilcox has a mixed report card - good outgoing sales, especially Lavia and Tella, repaired some of Ankerson’s appalling catalogue of recruitment mistakes. The incomings have been more mixed, Stewart was a horrible mistake on a par with Carrillo and Tall Paul which is a damning endorsement on SFC mismanagement. Certainly too, Wilcox and Martin’s replacements need to bring in an experienced first choice keeper in the summer, along with two first choice strikers, and loan Gavin out in League One or Two. Looks like League One/Lower Champ is probably his maximum level if he gets more consistency. 

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Some of the first posts on this thread turned out to be insightful....

 

On 06/01/2023 at 21:18, Convict Colony said:

I dunno he's a northerner who likes the north. It might be a great career opportunity but I gonna guess this is a no from his wife.

 

Has Wilcox now set a new record (another Saintsy record) for spending more time 'working his notice' than actually 'doing his fucking job' in the last year?

 

On 11/01/2023 at 09:54, SambaMaverick said:

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Some of the first posts on this thread turned out to be insightful....

 

 

Has Wilcox now set a new record (another Saintsy record) for spending more time 'working his notice' than actually 'doing his fucking job' in the last year?

 

 

 

Gladiator GIF

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On 06/01/2023 at 21:35, saint1977 said:

Judging by the staggering level of turnover in football-facing leadership, coaching and administrative positions since the summer, I predict an April 2023 departure.

Congratulations @saint1977 want to take your place in the CoT?

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For those of you who would refuse any form of advancement or move elsewhere, and are blissfully happy with your job ....Congratulations. 

The others who have worked most of your lifetime in.. (your particular work area) ..and reached the higher echelons might certainly take time to  

consider... the last chance of a highly prestigious job with one of the richest and most successful employers in the World market. 

 

What ever the outcome ..( if JW goes / stays ) the most valuable person in the club will be the fellow who was most observant and was taking 

notes every day that he worked alongside Wilcox, who was surely speaking from a long successful history, and with a great deal of experience. 

 

I retired some year ago ..(after more than 50 years working in several organisations) ..but the most valuable advice came from someone who advised me; 

..." when you meet an expert, don't try and impress them with your knowledge, but shut up and listen to his ... and learn something even more valuable "

Hopefully ...those who have been working alongside JW may realise that they have had a  9 month course on.... how to do the job successfully.   

 

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I was just reminded that Wilcox was also responsible for bringing in Mason Holgate.

Of his signings so far - 3 loan signings have been good - Harwood-Bellis, Downes, Fraser

Of his permanent signings - Shea Charles hasn't lived up to his price tag, Joe Lumley may well be a poundshop Baz, Ryan Manning is Ryan Manning and Ross Stewart has been crocked all season.

He's also brought in David Brooks and Joe Rothwell to unbalance a midfield that was doing well.

He did a great job of getting maximum value for Lavia and managed a recoup a lot of money from outgoings over the summer. We still have a lot of players out on loan that we're going to make a loss on.

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59 minutes ago, coalman said:

I was just reminded that Wilcox was also responsible for bringing in Mason Holgate.

Of his signings so far - 3 loan signings have been good - Harwood-Bellis, Downes, Fraser

Of his permanent signings - Shea Charles hasn't lived up to his price tag, Joe Lumley may well be a poundshop Baz, Ryan Manning is Ryan Manning and Ross Stewart has been crocked all season.

He's also brought in David Brooks and Joe Rothwell to unbalance a midfield that was doing well.

He did a great job of getting maximum value for Lavia and managed a recoup a lot of money from outgoings over the summer. We still have a lot of players out on loan that we're going to make a loss on.

That is the easy bit to see and it’s nothing special considering most could see how many of these players would work out and the risks associated with crocked or new to first team football. 
 

what isn’t known is how he’s set up the internal structure to operate and if that is effective. That will take time to show and the new person is likely to change it to however they prefer to work!

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24 minutes ago, Doctoroncall said:

That is the easy bit to see and it’s nothing special considering most could see how many of these players would work out and the risks associated with crocked or new to first team football. 
 

what isn’t known is how he’s set up the internal structure to operate and if that is effective. That will take time to show and the new person is likely to change it to however they prefer to work!

That's a great question. I'd say it usually takes a year for a new leader to start establishing a culture within an organisation. So we'd be right on the cusp of that  starting to bear fruit if he saw succession planning as a key part of his job. I'd also argue that his organisation hasn't been wildly effective thus far so change might not be such a bad thing.

We really need to get someone in for more than a few months to see returns from it. Joe Shields disappeared pronto and now Wilcox looks to be doing the same.

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19 hours ago, coalman said:

I was just reminded that Wilcox was also responsible for bringing in Mason Holgate.

Of his signings so far - 3 loan signings have been good - Harwood-Bellis, Downes, Fraser

Of his permanent signings - Shea Charles hasn't lived up to his price tag, Joe Lumley may well be a poundshop Baz, Ryan Manning is Ryan Manning and Ross Stewart has been crocked all season.

He's also brought in David Brooks and Joe Rothwell to unbalance a midfield that was doing well.

He did a great job of getting maximum value for Lavia and managed a recoup a lot of money from outgoings over the summer. We still have a lot of players out on loan that we're going to make a loss on.

 

Considering that they were all brought in as loans  suggests that the Board were well aware that we were going to suffer a  70 million trading loss for last year.

One could argue that they were good moves, although in his defence  Holgate only arrived on the day before the " Sunderland Massacre " and probably knew  

very few of our players,  and had never heard of " Russ ball ".   He didn't excel in his loan period, but will likely find a good move elsewhere in the future.  

 

Shea Charles is an odd one, as he rarely gets game time, but it might be argued that after we began the marathon unbeaten run,  RM was reluctant to make

changes / or experiment just for the sake of it.  Credit must go to someone  for making those great deals ( Lavia, Livramento, Tella  and Salisu ) who

- to be fair - might not have been automatic selections had they stayed, although I am sad JWP  went, his service to the club was unmatched, and it won't 

be possible to replace him even in one season.  I'm surprised only West Ham took interest, but in the long run they might realise what a good deal they had.

 

Recalling the big turnover of players (and managers) we've had in the last 2 years,  I think we've landed on our feet,  and are very unlucky not to be in the

top two on merit, in a season where three very strong clubs are still fighting for the top spot.   I'm sure that Wilcox' influence has gone deeper than many 

may realise,  but ..if I am going to quote Shakespeare ..how about :   " the evil that men do lives on,  but the good is often interred with their bones " 

IF ..Jason Wilcox  does leave ?...he won't be easy to replace,  and if RM is "sacrificed " for failure to get promotion he won't be either, and the next

manager may ditch " Russball " altogether  and come in with " his special formation " instead.       That prospect has disaster written all over it. 

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1 hour ago, david in sweden said:

 

Considering that they were all brought in as loans  suggests that the Board were well aware that we were going to suffer a  70 million trading loss for last year.

One could argue that they were good moves, although in his defence  Holgate only arrived on the day before the " Sunderland Massacre " and probably knew  

very few of our players,  and had never heard of " Russ ball ".   He didn't excel in his loan period, but will likely find a good move elsewhere in the future.  

 

Shea Charles is an odd one, as he rarely gets game time, but it might be argued that after we began the marathon unbeaten run,  RM was reluctant to make

changes / or experiment just for the sake of it.  Credit must go to someone  for making those great deals ( Lavia, Livramento, Tella  and Salisu ) who

- to be fair - might not have been automatic selections had they stayed, although I am sad JWP  went, his service to the club was unmatched, and it won't 

be possible to replace him even in one season.  I'm surprised only West Ham took interest, but in the long run they might realise what a good deal they had.

 

Recalling the big turnover of players (and managers) we've had in the last 2 years,  I think we've landed on our feet,  and are very unlucky not to be in the

top two on merit, in a season where three very strong clubs are still fighting for the top spot.   I'm sure that Wilcox' influence has gone deeper than many 

may realise,  but ..if I am going to quote Shakespeare ..how about :   " the evil that men do lives on,  but the good is often interred with their bones " 

IF ..Jason Wilcox  does leave ?...he won't be easy to replace,  and if RM is "sacrificed " for failure to get promotion he won't be either, and the next

manager may ditch " Russball " altogether  and come in with " his special formation " instead.       That prospect has disaster written all over it. 

I think Shea Charles will come good. I think we should stick with Martin. I am unfussed over Wilcox going though if it were done when 'tis done, twere well it were done quickly

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I also think Shea Charles will come good - he is young and has some good moments and some bad moments but that is the inconsistency you expect in young players on a game to game basis.  But he is a 'unit' and he shows a lot of potential.  I'd play him in a double pivot for now or as an 8 rather than a loan 6 until he has more first team, experience but I think in time he will turn out to be a great player for Saints.

With Wilcox I don't think its a great loss - he has done some bad and some good things. He made some great sales over the summer - but we failed to replace Tella, bring in the centre forward we needed or the second left back to provide cover and competition.

Signing Sulemana and Ross Stewart and loaning out Alcaraz all look like big mistakes though.

And I think we need to keep Martin whether we go up or down - we need some managerial stability so we can build on the team we've got rather than have to do a rebuild again.

 

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On 11/04/2024 at 12:10, coalman said:

I was just reminded that Wilcox was also responsible for bringing in Mason Holgate.

Of his signings so far - 3 loan signings have been good - Harwood-Bellis, Downes, Fraser

Of his permanent signings - Shea Charles hasn't lived up to his price tag, Joe Lumley may well be a poundshop Baz, Ryan Manning is Ryan Manning and Ross Stewart has been crocked all season.

He's also brought in David Brooks and Joe Rothwell to unbalance a midfield that was doing well.

He did a great job of getting maximum value for Lavia and managed a recoup a lot of money from outgoings over the summer. We still have a lot of players out on loan that we're going to make a loss on.

did he? This is the club that also paid £100m for Caicedo and £350m on other players who have got them to 9th this season. 

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On 12/04/2024 at 09:52, coalman said:

I think Shea Charles will come good. I think we should stick with Martin. I am unfussed over Wilcox going though if it were done when 'tis done, twere well it were done quickly

young, hungry so guarenteed to improve, yes?

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Good oppostunirty for some new ideas next year. Either we stay down in which case a refresh may be a good thing, otherwise a new man with the financial muscle in the prem. Wilcow talked a good game and did a good job in some areas but he's always going to jump when a team like united come knocking. 

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I would have thought that we are already looking at potential replacements for Wilcox. Really dissapointing to see him depart after only nine months as I thought he was part of the long term project. The club as per the statement on the OS will fully support RM and his backroom staff.

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19 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Quite a terse statement.

Indeed. All he deserves.

On Twitter loads of replies from United fans who don't seem to understand what the word "reluctantly" means.

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54 minutes ago, 4nd7 said:

https://www.southamptonfc.com/en/news/article/club-statement-jason-wilcox

 

Interesting to see how this will impact on Russell Martin and the direction of the club. 

He will have seen this coming for a while. I’m not that bothered now . I was initially taken in by Wilcox first couple of interviews. I havnt seen much of an impact from  him. I often mention how unpopular Ratcliffe is in Manchester most of which I’m not going to mention. TBF most of it is only relevant to genuine United fans . 
Wilcox will know all about him and he’s been given a lower level job with far more money.If Ratcliffes grandiose plans go tits up . Ratcliffe will get the blame ( don’t forget United is only part of “ vision “ it’s also all about redeveloping large areas of Manchester and of course “ the worlds best stadium “ )

The Premier League are also planning to play games like the Manchester Derby in the USA FFS

Wilcox will get a massive payoff. It’s horrible really but I suppose it’s all about the money
Im going to assume SR have seen this coming and have a couple of decent candidates lined up. Can’t see any decision made until the end of the season.

check this article out. There’s also a good article about the Premier League losing it appeal in the U.K. and Vittese Arnhem being docked 18 points in the Eredivise. 

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/apr/18/premier-league-39th-game-chelsea-arsenal-manchester-united-america

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He hasn’t done anything remotely impressive in his short time here to warrant being sad about. Good luck to him at United though, they’re more of a basket case than saints. 
 

There are a hundred Jason Wilcox’s out there looking for a club as big as saints to give them a chance. 
Mental appointment from United really. 

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Honestly see this as a ok sign that at least the ownership group keep appointing good senior people at the club.

First shields, now wilcox.

Wonder who we will get next ? Paul "bring him home" mitchell ;-)

Honestly though wonder how we will recruit for the role and/or they look to finalise it after season (which i guess they would) and just go into the summer transfer window with Russ and Rasmus.

But the right answer is of course which every club have the most amount of great youth players so we can get the left overs so probably chelsea

 

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17 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

No idea why Man United have set their sights that low. Very odd but good luck to 

22 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

Honestly see this as a ok sign that at least the ownership group keep appointing good senior people at the club.

First shields, now wilcox.

Wonder who we will get next ? Paul "bring him home" mitchell 😉

Honestly though wonder how we will recruit for the role and/or they look to finalise it after season (which i guess they would) and just go into the summer transfer window with Russ and Rasmus.

But the right answer is of course which every club have the most amount of great youth players so we can get the left overs so probably chelsea

 

I am fairly sure Rasmus won’t be let anywhere near club recruitment. He’s a guy who will spend a whole season assessing a player  . That’s why it went tits up when Shields walked out ( and made such a dynamic impression on Chelsea 🤔 ) . Again Rasmus is solely in charge of development of the SR roster. The only time Southampton mention him is if he visits one of the clubs. For what I can see he’s doing a grand job at the other two.I fully expect us to add an Irish and then maybe a Greek or Serbian team. 

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5 minutes ago, manji said:

 

Come on bro, if you've read his book you would know you have to break it first, he's succeeded here and at valenciennes and failed at gozteppe ;-)

But seriously we will defo need someone in and aligned then before the summer transfer window as over the next month, will need someone who already has relationships in football so not an academy guy, also doesnt help we dont know what league and budget we will have for next year.

 

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56 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

Honestly see this as a ok sign that at least the ownership group keep appointing good senior people at the club.

First shields, now wilcox.

Wonder who we will get next ? Paul "bring him home" mitchell 😉

Honestly though wonder how we will recruit for the role and/or they look to finalise it after season (which i guess they would) and just go into the summer transfer window with Russ and Rasmus.

But the right answer is of course which every club have the most amount of great youth players so we can get the left overs so probably chelsea

 

Paul Allen?

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2 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

He hasn’t done anything remotely impressive in his short time here to warrant being sad about. Good luck to him at United though, they’re more of a basket case than saints. 
 

There are a hundred Jason Wilcox’s out there looking for a club as big as saints to give them a chance. 
Mental appointment from United really. 

Interesting that your dealings with him haven't been impressive - is that within this role or previously at academy level?

I know a couple of people more on the academy side (but unrelated to Saints) who have been very impressed in their dealings with him and who were suprised we managed to get him kn the first place.

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1 hour ago, Convict Colony said:

Honestly see this as a ok sign that at least the ownership group keep appointing good senior people at the club.

First shields, now wilcox.

Wonder who we will get next ? Paul "bring him home" mitchell 😉

Honestly though wonder how we will recruit for the role and/or they look to finalise it after season (which i guess they would) and just go into the summer transfer window with Russ and Rasmus.

But the right answer is of course which every club have the most amount of great youth players so we can get the left overs so probably chelsea

 

Is it really a good sign? Surely it's the sort of role you'd ideally want to have some stability in and not have someone who on the big team's shortlist's immediately.

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Said it before and i'll say it again, the main benefit of having a director of football role is to ensure continuity between different managers coming and going. It completely defeats the fucking purpose if you're getting through directors of football quicker than manager. 

Next person that comes in needs to be told that they will be here for the duration of the contract signed as minimum. 

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3 hours ago, Dusic said:

Interesting that your dealings with him haven't been impressive - is that within this role or previously at academy level?

I know a couple of people more on the academy side (but unrelated to Saints) who have been very impressed in their dealings with him and who were suprised we managed to get him kn the first place.


Yeah sure mate. Someone sign this guy up to the CoT

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9 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Said it before and i'll say it again, the main benefit of having a director of football role is to ensure continuity between different managers coming and going. It completely defeats the fucking purpose if you're getting through directors of football quicker than manager. 

Next person that comes in needs to be told that they will be here for the duration of the contract signed as minimum. 

To be fair, last year we got through way more managers.  This year is just a blip.

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