Summer Transfer Window 2023

[Galway saint]

30 minutes ago, Turkish said:

We should but we won’t 

Suspect you’re right. There doesn’t appear to be any signs of bringing in a replacement even after another balls up on Saturday 

[pimpin4rizeal]

5 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Can't say I'd be that bothered about Lavia going. Not because he isn't a good player, quite the opposite. It's just I accepted about 3 games in that we were probably not going to keep him beyond last season even if we'd stayed up. So there's just an inevitability about it and has had almost a year to sink in.

Maybe a bit controversial but I think lavia was a bit of a luxury player for us last season . Sure he looked quality and has a ton of good aspects to his game .. but did he really affect games ?
suppose this could be a harsh view for a dm but his contribution wasn’t really changing results for us .. ward prowse a lot more key in actually affecting results 

[SotonianWill]

Just now, pimpin4rizeal said:

Maybe a bit controversial but I think lavia was a bit of a luxury player for us last season . Sure he looked quality and has a ton of good aspects to his game .. but did he really affect games ?
suppose this could be a harsh view for a dm but his contribution wasn’t really changing results for us .. ward prowse a lot more key in actually affecting results 

He was necessity not luxury. Every time he didn’t play we’d lose, every time he was subbed off we were much worse and would lose. 

[pimpin4rizeal]

10 minutes ago, SotonianWill said:

He was necessity not luxury. Every time he didn’t play we’d lose, every time he was subbed off we were much worse and would lose. 

Guess what I’m trying to say is a defensive midfielder like him doesn’t really win or lose you games by himself .. he could play a very good game make tackles .. be press resistant not give the ball away .. but it’s not making much of a difference on the result ..

if you had to chose between him and ward prowse .. not looking at in a who we could sell for  most money but who would actually have more of a affect on results who would you choose ?

Edited 17 July, 2023 by pimpin4rizeal

[verlaine1979]

7 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Guess what I’m trying to say is a defensive midfielder like him doesn’t really win or lose you games by himself .. he could play a very good game make tackles .. be press resistant not give the ball away .. but it’s not making much of a difference on the result ..

if you had to chose between him and ward prowse .. not looking at in a who we could sell for  most money but who would actually have more of a affect on results who would you choose ?

Lavia every time. I know JWP can't dominate a midfield in the premier league. Lavia hasn't done it yet either, but looks far more likely to be capable of it.

[stevy777_x]

27 minutes ago, SotonianWill said:

He was necessity not luxury. Every time he didn’t play we’d lose, every time he was subbed off we were much worse and would lose. 

You d think that with a midfield of Lavia JWP and Alcaraz, we would look a balanced and would dominate other teams in the midfield. It was never the case, Lavia and JWP for all their talent were found wanting positionally for me as we were way too open.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

16 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Guess what I’m trying to say is a defensive midfielder like him doesn’t really win or lose you games by himself .. he could play a very good game make tackles .. be press resistant not give the ball away .. but it’s not making much of a difference on the result ..

if you had to chose between him and ward prowse .. not looking at in a who we could sell for  most money but who would actually have more of a affect on results who would you choose ?

All great teams have a rock solid DM.

Lavia will be part of a great team.

Unfortunately it won't be us and last season he was playing with pretty much 10 other gash players

[Smirking_Saint]

33 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Maybe a bit controversial but I think lavia was a bit of a luxury player for us last season . Sure he looked quality and has a ton of good aspects to his game .. but did he really affect games ?
suppose this could be a harsh view for a dm but his contribution wasn’t really changing results for us .. ward prowse a lot more key in actually affecting results 

We looked a shadow of the team without him… you literally cannot have 11 players all attempting to ‘play killer passes’ etc, you need somebody to take the pressure off and give us the bedrock to progress from

There is a reason good No.6’s are expensive, they are an absolute prerequisite to most.. if not all modern tactics

Lavia was probably out biggest asset In ‘affecting’ results, in the sense that we were completely uncohesive without him

[Smirking_Saint]

25 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Guess what I’m trying to say is a defensive midfielder like him doesn’t really win or lose you games by himself .. he could play a very good game make tackles .. be press resistant not give the ball away .. but it’s not making much of a difference on the result ..

if you had to chose between him and ward prowse .. not looking at in a who we could sell for  most money but who would actually have more of a affect on results who would you choose ?

Lavia

And if I was to chose someone to coach the Saintsweb football team it wouldn’t be you 😂

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, SotonianWill said:

He was necessity not luxury. Every time he didn’t play we’d lose, every time he was subbed off we were much worse and would lose. 

Basically last season fell apart when Lavia got injured first time round.

Mad that a teenager was that important but he was.

[Osvaldorama]

49 minutes ago, stevy777_x said:

You d think that with a midfield of Lavia JWP and Alcaraz, we would look a balanced and would dominate other teams in the midfield. It was never the case, Lavia and JWP for all their talent were found wanting positionally for me as we were way too open.

Agree, but I think it’s because we were managed by successive frauds & they were surrounded by dross. That midfield 3 should have kept us up easily IMO. Potentially a top half midfield. 
 

Lavia is an absolutely wonderful footballer. In a better team he will absolutely thrive, I have zero doubt. He is to CDM what VVD was to CB. 

[Chewy]

10 hours ago, stevy777_x said:

You d think that with a midfield of Lavia JWP and Alcaraz, we would look a balanced and would dominate other teams in the midfield. It was never the case, Lavia and JWP for all their talent were found wanting positionally for me as we were way too open.

But we didn’t play with them as a midfield 3. We were obsessed with 4222 and had Alcaraz as a wide 10 or even as a striker. Plus JWP as a 6. Alcaraz was even dropped early on, presumably because he didn’t fit our wonderful system.

Those 3 didn’t work in midfield not because they (and in the context of the comment, Lavia) weren’t good enough; they didn’t work because our epically sh1t managers and coaches didn’t play the right tactics.

Edited 18 July, 2023 by Chewy
Typo

[once_bitterne]

Think a link must be screwed up somewhere.  I clicked on the Southampton Summer transfer window thread but ended up on one about Forest Green new manager discussion!

[Fitzhugh Fella]

14 minutes ago, once_bitterne said:

Think a link must be screwed up somewhere.  I clicked on the Southampton Summer transfer window thread but ended up on one about Forest Green new manager discussion!

That’s because it’s all quiet on the incomings at the moment. Not getting rid of those who will inevitably leave (probably just before the window shuts) is harming our strategy I reckon. The window should open earlier and shut on the 4th of August. 

[LuckyNumber7]

18 minutes ago, once_bitterne said:

Think a link must be screwed up somewhere.  I clicked on the Southampton Summer transfer window thread but ended up on one about Forest Green new manager discussion!

Well it is Saints related but not sure why it doesn't have its own thread. Anyway good luck to Dave Horseman, bet he comes back for one or two of our youngsters.

[Toussaint]

13 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

That’s because it’s all quiet on the incomings at the moment. Not getting rid of those who will inevitably leave (probably just before the window shuts) is harming our strategy I reckon. The window should open earlier and shut on the 4th of August. 

100% agree, its a huge disadvantage to clubs lower down the food chain. I really don't understand the logic that allows a team to get plundered a month into the season. Fortunately we are in a position where we should be able to hold on to our best assets if the price isn't right. 

[revolution saint]

9 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

100% agree, its a huge disadvantage to clubs lower down the food chain. I really don't understand the logic that allows a team to get plundered a month into the season. Fortunately we are in a position where we should be able to hold on to our best assets if the price isn't right. 

Isn't it because the European windows all shut at the end of August?  Pretty sure we tried one season to end ours the day before our domestic season started but everyone got annoyed because it put English clubs at a disadvantage compared to other leagues.

[once_bitterne]

33 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

That’s because it’s all quiet on the incomings at the moment. Not getting rid of those who will inevitably leave (probably just before the window shuts) is harming our strategy I reckon. The window should open earlier and shut on the 4th of August. 

Or we should move earlier.  Leicester have already sold the player they can get the most revenue from and signed two players from PL teams who will be ready to improve their team on the pitch THIS season, not (yet more) youth team players who we might be able to flog for a profit in a couple of years.  If we haven't gone into admin by then.

Edited 18 July, 2023 by once_bitterne

[waylander]

5 minutes ago, once_bitterne said:

Or we should move earlier.  Leicester have already sold the player they can get the most revenue from and signed two players from PL teams who will be ready to improve their team on the pitch THIS season, not (yet more) youth team players who we might be able to flog for a profit in a couple of years.  If we haven't gone into admin my then.

Explain to me like I'm 5 years old. How can we move earlier if we don't know whether Lavia/JWP/KWP/Salisu etc will certainly be leaving?

[once_bitterne]

47 minutes ago, waylander said:

Explain to me like I'm 5 years old. How can we move earlier if we don't know whether Lavia/JWP/KWP/Salisu etc will certainly be leaving?

Are you sitting comfortably?

Of course we f'kin know that Lavia/JWP/KWP/Salisu are leaving.  They aint going to be playing in the 2nd tier are they...

So just sell them for a reasonable price now and re-invest some of the cash on players that will improve us on the pitch this season (as Leicester have done with selling Maddison) - not trying to hold out for ridiculous amounts as we are doing.

We NEED to sell otherwise we will be in serious financial trouble given the £160m on transfer fees alone we spent on transfer fees alone last season to get relegated.  And to use some of the funds to buy Championship ready players.

[SaintsFan86]

5 minutes ago, once_bitterne said:

Are you sitting comfortably?

Of course we f'kin know that Lavia/JWP/KWP/Salisu are leaving.  They aint going to be playing in the 2nd tier are they...

So just sell them for a reasonable price now and re-invest some of the cash on players that will improve us on the pitch this season (as Leicester have done with selling Maddison) - not trying to hold out for ridiculous amounts as we are doing.

We NEED to sell otherwise we will be in serious financial trouble given the £160m on transfer fees alone we spent on transfer fees alone last season to get relegated.  And to use some of the funds to buy Championship ready players.

I wouldn't be so fast to say JWP is off.

You would assume KWP should leave, it'll be late into the window I reckon before he does depart.

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, revolution saint said:

Isn't it because the European windows all shut at the end of August?  Pretty sure we tried one season to end ours the day before our domestic season started but everyone got annoyed because it put English clubs at a disadvantage compared to other leagues.

You're probably right, there must be some rationale behind it.

[Lighthouse]

Amazing. In 2016 the club were idiots for selling Mané ‘too early’ because if we’d waited we’d have triggered a massive bidding war and got an extra £20m. Now the club are idiots for not selling our best players quickly enough because we need to know how much money we have available and to have time to spend it accordingly.

[stevy777_x]

12 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Amazing. In 2016 the club were idiots for selling Mané ‘too early’ because if we’d waited we’d have triggered a massive bidding war and got an extra £20m. Now the club are idiots for not selling our best players quickly enough because we need to know how much money we have available and to have time to spend it accordingly.

You can never win, fickle fickle

[waylander]

30 minutes ago, once_bitterne said:

Are you sitting comfortably?

Of course we f'kin know that Lavia/JWP/KWP/Salisu are leaving.  They aint going to be playing in the 2nd tier are they...

So just sell them for a reasonable price now and re-invest some of the cash on players that will improve us on the pitch this season (as Leicester have done with selling Maddison) - not trying to hold out for ridiculous amounts as we are doing.

We NEED to sell otherwise we will be in serious financial trouble given the £160m on transfer fees alone we spent on transfer fees alone last season to get relegated.  And to use some of the funds to buy Championship ready players.

So we should sell any player that someone makes an offer for? £15M for JWP?

I'm sure the club think that £50M is a reasonable price for Lavia

[Farmer Saint]

37 minutes ago, once_bitterne said:

Are you sitting comfortably?

Of course we f'kin know that Lavia/JWP/KWP/Salisu are leaving.  They aint going to be playing in the 2nd tier are they...

So just sell them for a reasonable price now and re-invest some of the cash on players that will improve us on the pitch this season (as Leicester have done with selling Maddison) - not trying to hold out for ridiculous amounts as we are doing.

We NEED to sell otherwise we will be in serious financial trouble given the £160m on transfer fees alone we spent on transfer fees alone last season to get relegated.  And to use some of the funds to buy Championship ready players.

Why are we playing them in pre-season then, and risking injury? They probably will leave, but very difficult to 100% predict.

Edited 18 July, 2023 by Farmer Saint

[SaintsFan86]

We don't have cash flow issues.

Our concern is complying with FFP.

Its more about wages atm.

[revolution saint]

2 minutes ago, SaintsFan86 said:

We don't have cash flow issues.

Our concern is complying with FFP.

Its more about wages atm.

I presume that's why we've brought in Wilcox - he'll have experience of working round FFP with Man City.

Edited 18 July, 2023 by revolution saint

[SaintsFan86]

4 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

I presume that's why we've brought in Wilcox - he'll have experience of working round FFP with Man City.

Its not just about FFP with wilcox, He has his hands on the full football operations so to speak, But being in charge of recruitment he'll know our protection and other financial things and will want to keep to that.

The parachute payments will help, and so do these "share injections".

[revolution saint]

5 minutes ago, SaintsFan86 said:

Its not just about FFP with wilcox, He has his hands on the full football operations so to speak, But being in charge of recruitment he'll know our protection and other financial things and will want to keep to that.

The parachute payments will help, and so do these "share injections".

Thanks.  I wasn't really being serious though.

[Chez]

15 minutes ago, SaintsFan86 said:

We don't have cash flow issues.

not now the owner has inserted £18m into the club to tide us over.

[SaintsFan86]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

not now the owner has inserted £18m into the club to tide us over.

That was into SRs accounts not Saints.

But I see your point.

[AlexLaw76]

7 minutes ago, Chez said:

not now the owner has inserted £18m into the club to tide us over.

That was for Sports Republic, who own another club and trying to buy a 3rd (if not already)

[SaintsFan86]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

That was for Sports Republic, who own another club and trying to buy a 3rd (if not already)

From what I saw, £34 Million was injected into SRs accounts.

But like yiu said could be for a plethora of things.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

1 hour ago, once_bitterne said:

Are you sitting comfortably?

Of course we f'kin know that Lavia/JWP/KWP/Salisu are leaving.  They aint going to be playing in the 2nd tier are they...

So just sell them for a reasonable price now and re-invest some of the cash on players that will improve us on the pitch this season (as Leicester have done with selling Maddison) - not trying to hold out for ridiculous amounts as we are doing.

We NEED to sell otherwise we will be in serious financial trouble given the £160m on transfer fees alone we spent on transfer fees alone last season to get relegated.  And to use some of the funds to buy Championship ready players.

If we're in serious financial trouble then we really shouldn't sell early for knock down prices

[Rebel]

I have to admit I was hoping that we'd have signed a few more players by now so that we could hit the ground running. Unfortunately its starting to look like we will have a slow stuttering start to the season as we try to move the players on we don't want and bring in players we do want.  I just hope it doesn't cost us when it comes to the end of the season and the race for promotion.

It does look like we need to sell some players before we can bring others in - issue with the size of the wage bill and limited transfer funds I would guess - and we seem to be struggling to get rid of players.  

The difference is in Maddison Leicester had a player that other clubs wanted as he is seen as a match winner and a player that can change games - which meant they could sell him early and start spending the money. 

Unfortunately I don't really think that Ward-Prowse or Lavia are seen that way - and they are probably our most saleable assets.   

Edited 18 July, 2023 by Rebel

[Chez]

The Athletic say no bid made for JWP and likewise no contact made about Downes. The quote used to suggest that Moyes doesn't see Downes as Rice's replacement feels like an endorsement to me. Moyes obviously will want to bring in another midfielder:

“It can take time when you bring in boys from the Championship. We’ve trusted him, we’ve played him in a lot of big games and he’s done a good job. Is he a complete replacement for Declan Rice? I’m not sure about that.”

 I would suggest Downes is going nowhere.

https://theathletic.com/4688462/2023/07/18/west-ham-declan-rice-replacement-coaching/

[FarehamSaintJames]

Imagine if we actually kept the likes of Lavia and KWP, just saying.

FFP isn’t an issue for us just yet. Also let’s assume we shift the likes of Onuachu, Lyanco, Salisu - that’ll be a lot saved on wages straight away.

[Chez]

7 minutes ago, Rebel said:

I have to admit I was hoping that we'd have signed a few more players by now so that we could hit the ground running. Unfortunately its starting to look like we will have a slow stuttering start to the season as we try to move the players on we don't want and bring in players we do want.  I just hope it doesn't cost us when it comes to the end of the season and the race for promotion.

It does look like we need to sell some players before we can bring others in - issue with the size of the wage bill and limited transfer funds I would guess - and we seem to be  struggling to get rid of players.  

The difference is in Maddison Leicester had a player that other clubs wanted as he is seen as a match winner and a player that can change games - which meant they could sell him early and start spending the money. 

Unfortunately I don't really think that Ward-Prowse or Lavia are seen that way - and they are probably are most saleable assets.  

I know the two transfers are not the same, but Mason Mount went for £60m, while Maddison went for £40m. Both are good players. Mount has 30 odd caps for England, Maddison 3, so maybe I am mistaken, but is there really a £20m difference between the two? If not, then it's not surprising that transfer got done relatively quickly in comparison to say Lavia.

If they had held out for £50m, would they be in the same position as us - waiting to see who blinks first. Possibly.

Perhaps Leicester's need/urgency for the cash was greater than ours. However, will that extra £10m (they might have got in) to spend on fees/wages make the difference come the end of the season? Or will the extra time they have `earned' to get the team organised be more beneficial?   

[SaintsFan86]

👀

[Saint Matty 76]

I'd have guessed that's about Holgate, but he was also the first one to break Manning iirc.

[Dman]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

I know the two transfers are not the same, but Mason Mount went for £60m, while Maddison went for £40m. Both are good players. Mount has 30 odd caps for England, Maddison 3, so maybe I am mistaken, but is there really a £20m difference between the two? If not, then it's not surprising that transfer got done relatively quickly in comparison to say Lavia.

If they had held out for £50m, would they be in the same position as us - waiting to see who blinks first. Possibly.

Perhaps Leicester's need/urgency for the cash was greater than ours. However, will that extra £10m (they might have got in) to spend on fees/wages make the difference come the end of the season? Or will the extra time they have `earned' to get the team organised be more beneficial?   

Unlikely. £40m is a huge amount for any championship side, such is the gulf in finances between the relegated PL sides and other championship sides. By accepting a little less early in the window, its allowed them to build a side early. That £10m the might have budged on, will potentially turn to £50+m when they get promoted. 

They've packed their side with experience and seem to have a decent core of younger players still there. 

Its really disappointing we haven't yet been able to move on the likes of Che, KWP, ABK, Salisu etc. who are better players and will get PL / top league interest. Let alone the weaker players, like Perraud, Diallo, Djenepo, Mara, Lyanco etc. who are just clogging up the squad with averageness and probably have little appetite to play in the champ.

We had a head start to build a championship squad, but seemingly are now loosing ground because realistically we cannot bring anyone in, without others leaving. We risk missing out on targets because we're not in a position to bring anyone in just yet. 

Had we been able to shift, ABK, Lyanco, Salisu already, would we have been in for Doyle? Who knows but i'd like to think so. 

[SaintsFan86]

9 minutes ago, SaintsFan86 said:

👀

Apparently it could be to do with Lyanco.

[Pat from Poole]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

Amazing. In 2016 the club were idiots for selling Mané ‘too early’ because if we’d waited we’d have triggered a massive bidding war and got an extra £20m. Now the club are idiots for not selling our best players quickly enough because we need to know how much money we have available and to have time to spend it accordingly.

But we invested it wisely.

We signed Redmond as his replacement.

Oh.

[Sunglasses Ron]

6 minutes ago, SaintsFan86 said:

Apparently it could be to do with Lyanco.

Probably announcing our third kit a day early. 😀

[Chez]

6 minutes ago, Dman said:

Unlikely. £40m is a huge amount for any championship side, such is the gulf in finances between the relegated PL sides and other championship sides. By accepting a little less early in the window, its allowed them to build a side early. That £10m the might have budged on, will potentially turn to £50+m when they get promoted. 

They've packed their side with experience and seem to have a decent core of younger players still there. 

Its really disappointing we haven't yet been able to move on the likes of Che, KWP, ABK, Salisu etc. who are better players and will get PL / top league interest. Let alone the weaker players, like Perraud, Diallo, Djenepo, Mara, Lyanco etc. who are just clogging up the squad with averageness and probably have little appetite to play in the champ.

We had a head start to build a championship squad, but seemingly are now loosing ground because realistically we cannot bring anyone in, without others leaving. We risk missing out on targets because we're not in a position to bring anyone in just yet. 

Had we been able to shift, ABK, Lyanco, Salisu already, would we have been in for Doyle? Who knows but i'd like to think so. 

Frustrating to not get the big deals (Lavia specifically) done earlier, but not totally surprising. In terms of the others, getting mediocre players out the door is always tough.

Leicester have bought two senior players and loaned another. We have bought two first team players ourselves. 

[Badger]

8 minutes ago, SaintsFan86 said:

Apparently it could be to do with Lyanco.

New tattoo for the Championship? 

[Dman]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

Amazing. In 2016 the club were idiots for selling Mané ‘too early’ because if we’d waited we’d have triggered a massive bidding war and got an extra £20m. Now the club are idiots for not selling our best players quickly enough because we need to know how much money we have available and to have time to spend it accordingly.

its finding that sweet spot. In 2016, we were in a much healthier and stronger position than we are today (FWIW - I think the deal for Mane was a pretty reasonable deal, at the time). 

Fast forward 5/6 years, we're a different club. We're no longer a PL side, we have a very very bloated squad full of massive bottlers and underachievers & we massively need a rebuild to change the mentality of the club (that wont happen with these losers lingering around). 

Simply put, we're not in a position to hold strong, imo. 

[saintant]

11 minutes ago, Dman said:

Unlikely. £40m is a huge amount for any championship side, such is the gulf in finances between the relegated PL sides and other championship sides. By accepting a little less early in the window, its allowed them to build a side early. That £10m the might have budged on, will potentially turn to £50+m when they get promoted. 

They've packed their side with experience and seem to have a decent core of younger players still there. 

Its really disappointing we haven't yet been able to move on the likes of Che, KWP, ABK, Salisu etc. who are better players and will get PL / top league interest. Let alone the weaker players, like Perraud, Diallo, Djenepo, Mara, Lyanco etc. who are just clogging up the squad with averageness and probably have little appetite to play in the champ.

We had a head start to build a championship squad, but seemingly are now loosing ground because realistically we cannot bring anyone in, without others leaving. We risk missing out on targets because we're not in a position to bring anyone in just yet. 

Had we been able to shift, ABK, Lyanco, Salisu already, would we have been in for Doyle? Who knows but i'd like to think so. 

How did we have a head start? I don't understand that.

[SaintsFan86]

 

 

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