Jan Bednarek

[Wurzel]

To this day I can remember then sound of Mark Wright's leg breaking in the collision with Shilton in the 86 Cup semi final. He mus have known before he'd even left the pitch that was his nailed on trip to the Mexico World Cup over. But can you imagine him asking not to play in that game "just in case"? Not in a million years.

For RH to have even mentioned Jan's "request" there must have been  serious ructions behind the scenes over this, the equivalent of Jan signing his own death warrant with the club. Unfortunately if other clubs are now aware of his weak mindset and/or loyalty it may affect his transfer value

[DT]

We've needed to invest properly in a decent centre half for years. Ditto keeper. Couldn't believe how bad Stephens was yesterday. Did Bednarek refuse to play at the last minute? Stephens looked that underprepared. That attempted clearance! That hoofed scuffed volley to nowhere! AWFUL

[Dman]

2 minutes ago, TWar said:

Boths ceiling is incredibly low for me, Stephens is mildly more consistent but not by much. Neither should be anything but 4th choice imo.

I don’t think we’ve seen anywhere near enough of Lyanco to come to that conclusion. 

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Dman said:

I don’t think we’ve seen anywhere near enough of Lyanco to come to that conclusion. 

His career didn't start with us.

[Saint Garrett]

3 minutes ago, Dman said:

I don’t think we’ve seen anywhere near enough of Lyanco to come to that conclusion. 

Completely agree.  First season in a new league and new country, and one he doesn't speak the home language of.

I think we'd be a far better side with Lyanco in it rather than Bednarek and Stephens. I think he'll be our first choice CB next season.

[Dman]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

His career didn't start with us.

How many Torino, São Paulo, or Bologna games did you watch? My guess is 0. 

 

[Dman]

Just now, Saint Garrett said:

Completely agree.  First season in a new league and new country, and one he doesn't speak the home language of.

I think we'd be a far better side with Lyanco in it rather than Bednarek and Stephens. I think he'll be our first choice CB next season.

I wouldn’t go that far, personally. 

To be fair he seems a little rash and I think we could probably do with a ready made starter. Him and salisu would worry me as both lack that experience.

I do think, with time, he certainly could improve though. He’s a bit of a beast. His header (off the bar) against Chelsea was fantastic. 

I’d like to see him replace Salisu (hopefully the summer after next), with a bit of a leader brought in this summer. Worell from forest looks like he could fit that bill. 

 

[TWar]

17 minutes ago, Dman said:

How many Torino, São Paulo, or Bologna games did you watch? My guess is 0. 

 

Don't need to watch the games to be aware he was a 3rd choice bench option for a relegation threatened side, universal consensus in Italy was he was wank, and the only game he started in his last 10 for Torino was a 7-0 thrashing where he was directly responsible for atleast 3 of them.

He has done mildly better than expected but is clearly viewed as 4th choice by Ralph given Stephens and Bednarek have both played ahead of him when fit. Does ok in a back 3 and had a couple of decent cup games where he surprised people but is clearly not a good player and is clearly not particularly highly rated. Valery is ahead of him in the pecking order now I suspect.

Edited 21 March, 2022 by TWar

[LuckyNumber7]

I am fine with Jack or Bednarek as 4th choice as you have to be realistic about the quality you can get that will be willing to sit on the bench for most of the season, but we certainly need to upgrade our starting partner for Salisu. 

Ideally sell Jan and invest in a starting CB to play with Sali. Lyanco has done fine despite what Twar says so him as third choice and Jack as fourth choice with Valery providing further squad depth if he stays. 

[S-Clarke]

A strange way to call him out like this, but Ralph has history of doing this. He did the same to McCarthy because he didn't tell him he was injured, and unsurprisingly he hasn't been seen since (although injured, but it's gone on a bit)

[Saint Garrett]

1 hour ago, TWar said:

Don't need to watch the games to be aware he was a 3rd choice bench option for a relegation threatened side, universal consensus in Italy was he was wank, and the only game he started in his last 10 for Torino was a 7-0 thrashing where he was directly responsible for atleast 3 of them.

He has done mildly better than expected but is clearly viewed as 4th choice by Ralph given Stephens and Bednarek have both played ahead of him when fit. Does ok in a back 3 and had a couple of decent cup games where he surprised people but is clearly not a good player and is clearly not particularly highly rated. Valery is ahead of him in the pecking order now I suspect.

He played quite a lot between Villa (H) - start of November - and Wolves (A) - Mid Jan, where he didn't have a great game, and then he got injured in the next game and been out since. Assuming he is back in the next few weeks, and I have absolutely no idea how bad his injury is, I would expect him to be atleast third choice, possibly starting instead of Bednarek or Stephens.

Edited 21 March, 2022 by Saint Garrett

[Dusic]

Stephens is a good 4th choice CB for the following reasons:

- He doesn't seem to mind large spells out of the team

- He is totally used to how we play

- Good communicator and definitely cares

- Can be capable of good performances at times

- Usually always fit and available

- Counts as homegrown for the quotas

The problem IMO is that he shouldn't be higher than a 4th choice. If Bednarek and Lyanco were not able to play then there isnt much else that could have been done as he is the next in line.

My bigger issue is that instead of signing Lyanco - an unknown quantity who would need time to settle etc - we should have tried to sign someone who would genuinely compete with Bednarek for a starting spot.

We all know why we didn't: money.

Thats just an example of Ralph's "we know our limits" line.

[Charlie Wayman]

2 hours ago, TWar said:

I think Stephens is better than Lyanco, personally. Would rather get rid of him but we just signed him. Can't see two CBs leaving unless one of them is Salisu unfortunately though.

You cannot be serious

[Charlie Wayman]

2 hours ago, Yozzman said:

Unprofessional of Ralph to throw one of our players under a bus like that. Those kind of things should be dealt internally.

Quite right. Ralph can be a daft bugger at times.

[Chez]

2 hours ago, DT said:

We've needed to invest properly in a decent centre half for years. Ditto keeper. Couldn't believe how bad Stephens was yesterday. Did Bednarek refuse to play at the last minute? Stephens looked that underprepared. That attempted clearance! That hoofed scuffed volley to nowhere! AWFUL

he looks a bit `heavy'. I don't know if I mean carrying timber, or just that he looks sluggish. In the past you could never point to a lack of sharpness or pace as being Stephens undoing, but in the recent games, for me, he looks slower. That lack of sharpness possibly contributed to him not getting his feet set in time to clear that ball away. I see a lack of zip in his passing too. I might be wrong, perhaps there is no change and he just now has more of a casual relaxed way of playing. 

[Chez]

24 minutes ago, Dusic said:

My bigger issue is that instead of signing Lyanco - an unknown quantity who would need time to settle etc - we should have tried to sign someone who would genuinely compete with Bednarek for a starting spot.

We all know why we didn't: money.

Obviously if money was no object, we'd of gone out and brought a rolls royce of a CB in the summer, but to me, it felt like the club were more than happy with Bednerak and we thus bought another `Bednerak' (£5m longer term project) to slot in below, not above him. If we'd have had an extra £5m to spend I think we'd of done the same thing.

By and large we don't look to `upgrade' and push existing players down the pecking order, we instead fill gaps left by out of contract/sales departures and/or buy `projects' that will eventually (some quicker than others) progress up the ladder and fill the gaps.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

he looks a bit `heavy'. I don't know if I mean carrying timber, or just that he looks sluggish. In the past you could never point to a lack of sharpness or pace as being Stephens undoing, but in the recent games, for me, he looks slower. That lack of sharpness possibly contributed to him not getting his feet set in time to clear that ball away. I see a lack of zip in his passing too. I might be wrong, perhaps there is no change and he just now has more of a casual relaxed way of playing. 

Stephens made several sloppy hacks at the ball yesterday. Not what you would expect of a Premier League player.

[DT]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

he looks a bit `heavy'. I don't know if I mean carrying timber, or just that he looks sluggish. In the past you could never point to a lack of sharpness or pace as being Stephens undoing, but in the recent games, for me, he looks slower. That lack of sharpness possibly contributed to him not getting his feet set in time to clear that ball away. I see a lack of zip in his passing too. I might be wrong, perhaps there is no change and he just now has more of a casual relaxed way of playing. 

Agreed. Looked a bit unfit to me. Certainly not match fit. In retrospect, knowing about the Bednarek thing, made me think it was all a bit of a shock to him to be playing. He played as if he hadn't played top flight football for a few seasons, I thought.

[DT]

24 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Stephens made several sloppy hacks at the ball yesterday. Not what you would expect of a Premier League player.

The one where it came down high over his shoulder and he just tried to volley/hoof it away and it just skimmed back into the sky in completely the other direction and into danger would have been appalling for my son's U16 side. In fact they would never do that. Couldn't believe my eyes.

[DT]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

Obviously if money was no object, we'd of gone out and brought a rolls royce of a CB in the summer, but to me, it felt like the club were more than happy with Bednerak and we thus bought another `Bednerak' (£5m longer term project) to slot in below, not above him. If we'd have had an extra £5m to spend I think we'd of done the same thing.

By and large we don't look to `upgrade' and push existing players down the pecking order, we instead fill gaps left by out of contract/sales departures and/or buy `projects' that will eventually (some quicker than others) progress up the ladder and fill the gaps.

Which is what is so disappointing. CB is a crucial position, and needs investment with someone good. Ditto the keeper. Fine to adopt that strategy for other positions but we need to build from the back with solidity, in my view, even if the old strategy (talking very old) of having a blend of youngsters and experienced players (think the Keegan era) is probably over for good in the new 'sell em on, enjoy them while you can, you lucky punters' era.

[Chez]

3 minutes ago, DT said:

Agreed. Looked a bit unfit to me. Certainly not match fit. In retrospect, knowing about the Bednarek thing, made me think it was all a bit of a shock to him to be playing. He played as if he hadn't played top flight football for a few seasons, I thought.

he has looked the same in all the games I've seen him this season. Sluggish. He looks like a 35 year old, not a 28 year old. In this day an age, the players tend to be mega fit. Mind you, even Stu took a few games to find his match sharpness after injury. Has Stephens had a major injury? Perhaps one game a month doesn't help.

[Chez]

4 minutes ago, DT said:

Which is what is so disappointing. CB is a crucial position, and needs investment with someone good. Ditto the keeper. Fine to adopt that strategy for other positions but we need to build from the back with solidity, in my view, even if the old strategy (talking very old) of having a blend of youngsters and experienced players (think the Keegan era) is probably over for good in the new 'sell em on, enjoy them while you can, you lucky punters' era.

CB and keeper seem to be the two positions the club struggles to develop players. That means we will continue to have to sign players from elsewhere. The Gunn and Simeu signings showed that there was nothing in the pipeline. Perhaps those positions need experience that games bring. Not necessary older players, just players that come through the leagues.

Does signing experienced (ageing) pros ever work these days in the Prem? United have done well signing outstanding ageing talents like Henrik Larrson, and quite a few older keepers have done well in the Prem, but by and large, don't they now all tend to get injured and bleed you dry wages wise? 

[DT]

18 minutes ago, Chez said:

CB and keeper seem to be the two positions the club struggles to develop players. That means we will continue to have to sign players from elsewhere. The Gunn and Simeu signings showed that there was nothing in the pipeline. Perhaps those positions need experience that games bring. Not necessary older players, just players that come through the leagues.

Does signing experienced (ageing) pros ever work these days in the Prem? United have done well signing outstanding ageing talents like Henrik Larrson, and quite a few older keepers have done well in the Prem, but by and large, don't they now all tend to get injured and bleed you dry wages wise? 

I would argue Jonny Evans at Leicester City has been a real success. Still excellent at 34. Would even now be good for us (I can dream)

[The Kraken]

16 hours ago, TWar said:

Good riddance. With him, Salisu, Stephens, Lyanco and Valery emerging I don't think there would be much scope to sign a new cb, which we sorely need. If we sell him for even remotely decent money I back the club to replace him with someone far better, with the quality of our scouting and the bonus spending power of the new owners.

I would hope we get rid and get someone better, though I can’t see too many teams being ready to throw tons of money at us for Bednarek. And the scouting hardly did wonders for Lyanco, at a fee rumoured around £6-£7m he was hardly cheap and it would seem from subsequent comments that he’s now barely good enough for 4th choice CB with us.

[saintwbu]

Stephens did have a bad injury early in the season, after a good start to the season. I think Ralph said it was basically what Lyanco now has. He hasn’t had a run in the team since, and yesterday he looked rusty. On form he’s decent imo, at least as good as Bednarek, who I don’t rate in the slightest. Both similar attributes but one is a complete pussy and the other one brings some aggression to the table. 

Also not sure why Lyanco is suddenly getting written off now he’s injured - he’s done pretty well when i’ve seen him so far. For me, the Chelsea League Cup game with a back 3 of Lyanco, Salisu, Valery was a fantastic defensive performance. He showed that night he could be useful. To me he’s 3rd choice in Ralph’s mind, ahead of Stephens.

[Smirking_Saint]

5 hours ago, TWar said:

I think Stephens is better than Lyanco, personally. Would rather get rid of him but we just signed him. Can't see two CBs leaving unless one of them is Salisu unfortunately though.

There isn’t a lot in it but I can’t agree with this, other than a short purple patch at the start of this year Stephens continues to be unimpressive

He strikes me as not only passive (both Bednarek and Stephens are passive defensively) but entirely reactive, he doesn’t read danger well at all, consistently strikes me as a poor marker and makes the wrong decisions

That said, the bench mark between Lyanco and JS isn’t particularly high

[TWar]

5 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

There isn’t a lot in it but I can’t agree with this, other than a short purple patch at the start of this year Stephens continues to be unimpressive

He strikes me as not only passive (both Bednarek and Stephens are passive defensively) but entirely reactive, he doesn’t read danger well at all, consistently strikes me as a poor marker and makes the wrong decisions

That said, the bench mark between Lyanco and JS isn’t particularly high

I think JS has had a couple of good spells to be fair to him, he also looked pretty good under Puel. Still bang average though.

[Smirking_Saint]

3 minutes ago, TWar said:

I think JS has had a couple of good spells to be fair to him, he also looked pretty good under Puel. Still bang average though.

Yeah, he’s a bit inconsistent but has had the odd decent spell, I think early season was the first that I actually thought he’d turned a corner into a regular starter… but the injury derailed that

I think that this day and age I get more concerned by the fact he is entirely reactive and even in that sense makes too many mistakes, his positioning and overall game awareness is lacking and Im not sure if that in turn affects his CB partners

Bednarek is much better in that sense, but can be a bit powder puff

[Baird of the land]

I like what i've seen of Lyanco. Seems a good buy for the money. Shame he got injured when he did.

Stephens is what he has always been, a streaky player who at times looks good but at others throws in bad mistakes like yesterday. A fair enough squad player for a club like Saints(though Valery might be challenging him for that role)

Bednarek is the one who a few years ago looked like he might develop. The last 2 years he seems to have gone backwards. As a regular international, you'd think we might be able to find some takers for him.

[Chez]

5 hours ago, DT said:

I would argue Jonny Evans at Leicester City has been a real success. Still excellent at 34. Would even now be good for us (I can dream)

Good shout. Very good player. No idea why United sold him. 

[Chez]

5 hours ago, saintwbu said:

Stephens did have a bad injury early in the season, after a good start to the season. I think Ralph said it was basically what Lyanco now has. He hasn’t had a run in the team since, and yesterday he looked rusty. On form he’s decent imo, at least as good as Bednarek, who I don’t rate in the slightest. Both similar attributes but one is a complete pussy and the other one brings some aggression to the table. 

Also not sure why Lyanco is suddenly getting written off now he’s injured - he’s done pretty well when i’ve seen him so far. For me, the Chelsea League Cup game with a back 3 of Lyanco, Salisu, Valery was a fantastic defensive performance. He showed that night he could be useful. To me he’s 3rd choice in Ralph’s mind, ahead of Stephens.

Didn't know he had a bad injury. That will explain his lack of sharpness. Hope he can rediscover it. I also think he and Bednerak are on a similar level. Both can play at this level, but if we want to break the top 6 or 8 maybe we need to improve on them. Not easy to do.

I'm not a big fan of Lyanco. He is not good enough in the air and he dives in (takes risks) all the time. Plenty of time on his his side.

[woodsaint1]

22 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

A strange way to call him out like this, but Ralph has history of doing this. He did the same to McCarthy because he didn't tell him he was injured, and unsurprisingly he hasn't been seen since (although injured, but it's gone on a bit)

I've no issue with him calling the players out and he was right to do so - it also seems to be players who arent good enough for us anyways so fine by me

[LiberalCommunist]

I'm not impressed with his recent attitude adjustment, but we could be in real danger of destabilising an already shaky defence if we sell Jan. 

With Jack seemingly leaving on a free (Personally think we should offer him a deal), and the very real possibility of losing Sally. (For me, he has already been tapped up. Something is in the pipeline)

That would set us a very unenviable task of replacing all three. And we know just how difficult this position is to get right.

So set aside your hurt feelings on this one, Bedders is staying unless we get a mental big Toon offer.(not happening) 

[JRM]

19 hours ago, DT said:

I would argue Jonny Evans at Leicester City has been a real success. Still excellent at 34. Would even now be good for us (I can dream)

Age is just a number,  that Fonte looked good in the Champions league last week against Chelsea 

[Badger]

30 minutes ago, LiberalCommunist said:

I'm not impressed with his recent attitude adjustment, but we could be in real danger of destabilising an already shaky defence if we sell Jan. 

With Jack seemingly leaving on a free (Personally think we should offer him a deal), and the very real possibility of losing Sally. (For me, he has already been tapped up. Something is in the pipeline)

That would set us a very unenviable task of replacing all three. And we know just how difficult this position is to get right.

So set aside your hurt feelings on this one, Bedders is staying unless we get a mental big Toon offer.(not happening) 

Thought we had (nd it was one of the contract extensions kept under wraps like the McCarthy non-announcement). Seemed to recall that from a Dan Sheldon post or comment, but might be wrong.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

I guess the position will become a lot clearer at 2pm against Leeds when the team sheet is announced. No Jan could point to there being a fallout

[Turkish]

On 20/03/2022 at 20:23, JRM said:

Strange player is Bednarek, feels like he's been here a while now but has never really built much popularity amongst the fans, probably because we've been terrible at the back for many of those seasons. Was a decent buy for £5M but don't think many would miss him if he goes. 

It is a wierd one as i seem to remember him being quite popular when he joined, mainly because he got thrown into the team and everyone hated Hoedt and no one rated Yoshida and Stephens. Since then his popularity has dropped and seems to be one of the whipping boys. Hes an adequate squad player at best but like you say, for £5m a decent signing who did a job when thrust into the team.

[AlexLaw76]

He is a decent Premier League defender.  

[notnowcato]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

He is a decent Premier League defender.  

I'd say average Premier League defender and I think he's as good as he's going to get.

[Sarisbury Saint]

Has it been stated why he said he didn’t want to play ?

Fans on his back maybe? Not sure I buy the international game theory.

[rooney]

Always got a mistake in him somewhere.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

4 hours ago, Sarisbury Saint said:

Has it been stated why he said he didn’t want to play ?

Fans on his back maybe? Not sure I buy the international game theory.

You would think that an established Premier League player and full international would rise above fan reactions during a match. Having said that,the sarcastic clapping during the Watford game after the fans gave him shit after yet another sideways ball done him no favours.

[danjosaint]

On 21/03/2022 at 16:11, TWar said:

I think JS has had a couple of good spells to be fair to him, he also looked pretty good under Puel. Still bang average though.

Apart from ball watching for Zlatans winner in Cup final,  some things never change

Edited 22 March, 2022 by danjosaint

[Fraser Spinney]

https://www.southamptonfc.news/match-coverage/southamptons-mr-reliable-delivers-remarkable-170-touch-masterclass-v-blackburn/