James Ward-Prowse

[John B]

6 hours ago, austsaint said:

Agree with both your sentences.    

Have you seen Downes play regularly in the PL?

[austsaint]

30 minutes ago, John B said:

Have you seen Downes play regularly in the PL?

No, but he looks to be up to standard, six years younger than JWP and probably already a better defensive midfielder - which is what we're short of.   You'll also note I agreed about a hypothetical Downes/JWP pairing being a good match.   Could happen I suppose if we don't go up and Downes goes back to the Hammers.

[Lord Duckhunter]

17 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

For me, he cheats a bit on the ball.  All square or backwards.

A bit? 

[The Kraken]

9 hours ago, John B said:

Have you seen Downes play regularly in the PL?

When Flynn joined us I asked my West Ham supporting mate about him, think I said about it on here at the time. My mate really rated him and was very surprised they let him go.

[Hatch]

as far as I can recall,  no goals scored from direct free kicks this season.

 

Is that a first for him?

[trousers]

38 minutes ago, Hatch said:

as far as I can recall,  no goals scored from direct free kicks this season.

 

Is that a first for him?

Gotta be, surely? Out of curiosity, do we know if this is because he's not taken (m)any or if he's taken plenty but lost his touch...?

Edited 7 May, 2024 by trousers

[beatlesaint]

11 minutes ago, trousers said:

Gotta be, surely? Out of curiosity, do we know if this is because he's not taken (m)any or if he's taken plenty but lost his touch...?

Everytime they've been on Sky that I've seen them he steps up to take them, usually with the commentator reminding us all of what a marvelous dead ball specialist he is !

I did notice he's been sub a bit recently however.

[St Louis]

I'd say JWP is certainly further now from the England squad, than he was when playing for us the last few years.

He didnt have a bad start, but now doesnt start games and a poor second half to the season.

[benjii]

1 hour ago, Hatch said:

as far as I can recall,  no goals scored from direct free kicks this season.

 

Is that a first for him?

Got one direct from a corner I think, so that probably counts.

He must be a bit frustrated not to have got a couple more though. 

[Saint_clark]

23 minutes ago, St Louis said:

I'd say JWP is certainly further now from the England squad, than he was when playing for us the last few years.

He didnt have a bad start, but now doesnt start games and a poor second half to the season.

Such a dick move from him really. Not about the money because he was already out highest paid player - he could have given us the season to see if we get back up and if he'd stayed we'd probably have gone up automatically. 

[Fabrice29]

2 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Such a dick move from him really. Not about the money because he was already out highest paid player - he could have given us the season to see if we get back up and if he'd stayed we'd probably have gone up automatically. 

Trying to better himself at the age of 28. Such a dick. 

[Wade Garrett]

Can’t see him getting much of a look in under their new manager.    

Fully understand why he went there, good luck to him.

[Gloucester Saint]

27 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Can’t see him getting much of a look in under their new manager.    

Fully understand why he went there, good luck to him.

How I see it too. Didn’t mind him moving on to W Ham, had a very productive honeymoon there but since Christmas has been in and out of side with their midfield getting overpowered. Ideal CM partner would have been Rice, blend of pace and power, JWP more technical but hence the money to sign him contingent on Rice being sold.

I can see a loan to Leicester or Fulham next season. In the event SFC won the play offs, the template tactically for next season would be Saturday’s from Elland, so after signing THB, maybe Downes if their new manager needs to bring in £20m, priority is pace and especially power. Victor/Morgan/Diop MK2 and a couple of them, Charles loaned out. 

[HarvSFC]

Ran the game against Sheffield Wednesday on the opening day, so it is a shame he didn't give us a few more to see if we had sorted ourselves out and were going back on the up. Similar to how Lallana, Schneiderlin and Kelvin Davis stuck with us in League One. But, in the same breath we went from having a midfield of Wanyama, Schneiderlin and Steven Davis to JWP being our best midfielder. He wasn't as good as any of those three, aside from his set pieces, so another example of the decline of the starting eleven.

Similar to Clyne, Lallana, Lambert 🙁, Schneiderlin, Ings... And many others in that the grass isn't always greener away from Southampton apart from a bigger bank balance. Schneiderlin, Ings and Lambert pretty much finished their careers as a top level player with their moves.

[Bad Wolf]

3 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Such a dick move from him really. Not about the money because he was already out highest paid player - he could have given us the season to see if we get back up and if he'd stayed we'd probably have gone up automatically. 

Why would he?? West Ham had just won a trophy, they're in Europe. If he'd stayed with us he'd need his head looking at.

Look at the comments he's had made about him during bad periods of form. He owed us nothing.

[S-Clarke]

4 hours ago, trousers said:

Gotta be, surely? Out of curiosity, do we know if this is because he's not taken (m)any or if he's taken plenty but lost his touch...?

He's saving himself for when we bring him back on loan as a PL team, then he'll resume his target to break the record with us. He's just paused it for the time being!

[Midfield_General]

2 hours ago, HarvSFC said:

Similar to Clyne, Lallana, Lambert 🙁, Schneiderlin, Ings... And many others in that the grass isn't always greener away from Southampton apart from a bigger bank balance. Schneiderlin, Ings and Lambert pretty much finished their careers as a top level player with their moves.

Agree with the others but not sure Lallana fits on that list. When he was fit he was a regular in the Liverpool squad that came runner-up in the Europa League and Champion's League, and won the Premier League, Club World Cup and Champion's League. 

Edited 7 May, 2024 by Midfield_General

[Saint_clark]

5 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

Trying to better himself at the age of 28. Such a dick. 

 

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

Why would he?? West Ham had just won a trophy, they're in Europe. If he'd stayed with us he'd need his head looking at.

Look at the comments he's had made about him during bad periods of form. He owed us nothing.

Priorities all wrong. Would have been a club legend for the rest of his life had he stayed. Instead he'll be a player not really regarded as much by anyone. 

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Saint_clark said:

 

Priorities all wrong. Would have been a club legend for the rest of his life had he stayed. Instead he'll be a player not really regarded as much by anyone. 

Speak for yourself, but I'll always remember JWP as a proper Southampton stalwart. He'll always be fondly remembered by me and I hope to see him return one day to see his career out.

He was on 100k a week, there was probably a relegation clause to reduce that slightly, but there's no way we could have sustained JWP in the Championship from a financial pov wage cut or no wage cut, and he deserved an opportunity to get back competing in Europe which WHU were going to give him.

I've got nothing against him and fully understood the move from a club and player pov.

[Fabrice29]

52 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

 

Priorities all wrong. Would have been a club legend for the rest of his life had he stayed. Instead he'll be a player not really regarded as much by anyone. 

He'd just captained a club who got relegated, nobody is becoming a club legend from that squad. The idea he should be prioritising becoming a club legend is genuinely insane, who do you think we are ffs?   Footballers want to compete as high as they can and be successful, not become club legends for not leaving a club in the Championship. 

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

1 hour ago, Midfield_General said:

Agree with the others but not sure Lallana fits on that list. When he was fit he was a regular in the Liverpool squad that came runner-up in the Europa League and Champion's League, and won the Premier League, Club World Cup and Champion's League. 

As much as i dislike banana, I have to agree. 

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

Priorities all wrong. Would have been a club legend for the rest of his life had he stayed. Instead he'll be a player not really regarded as much by anyone. 

I doubt he prioritises being slightly more popular with some random strangers on an internet message board over PL football and the chance of being in the squad for a major international tournament. I'm a Saints fan, I'd have done exactly the same thing and would expect a fairly decent reception if I ever came back.

[Dman]

15 hours ago, HarvSFC said:

Ran the game against Sheffield Wednesday on the opening day, so it is a shame he didn't give us a few more to see if we had sorted ourselves out and were going back on the up. Similar to how Lallana, Schneiderlin and Kelvin Davis stuck with us in League One. But, in the same breath we went from having a midfield of Wanyama, Schneiderlin and Steven Davis to JWP being our best midfielder. He wasn't as good as any of those three, aside from his set pieces, so another example of the decline of the starting eleven.

Similar to Clyne, Lallana, Lambert 🙁, Schneiderlin, Ings... And many others in that the grass isn't always greener away from Southampton apart from a bigger bank balance. Schneiderlin, Ings and Lambert pretty much finished their careers as a top level player with their moves.

It took a late, last minute winner to beat a team who up until they appointed Rohl, looked the worst side in the division... 

I cannot put into words how much more important Downes is to us. 

I said at the time and I stand by it now, I rate Downes higher than I've ever rated JWP. 

[spyinthesky]

11 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

I doubt he prioritises being slightly more popular with some random strangers on an internet message board over PL football and the chance of being in the squad for a major international tournament. I'm a Saints fan, I'd have done exactly the same thing and would expect a fairly decent reception if I ever came back.

Quite right.
And of course the club wanted the transfer fee and also the saving in wages which would have been around the £5m mark.

[CB Fry]

11 hours ago, Dman said:

 

I cannot put into words how much more important Downes is to us. 

I said at the time and I stand by it now, I rate Downes higher than I've ever rated JWP. 

Sorry this is mental.

JWP is and was for us a proven Premier League player.

Right now Flynn Downes is proven to not be good enough for the Premier League, which is why WHU bombed him out to us on loan.

 

Fuck knows why people are giving it the "grass isn't always greener" routine when he has played 49 times in the Prem and in Europe this season.

Edited 8 May, 2024 by CB Fry

[Lord Duckhunter]

On 07/05/2024 at 20:28, Saint_clark said:

Priorities all wrong. Would have been a club legend for the rest of his life had he stayed. 

Like that club legend Mick Channon? 

[Disco Stu]

56 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Like that club legend Mick Channon? 

He lifted a major trophy during his time here and gave us a year after we got relegated before eventually moving on. I don't begrudge JWP leaving one bit but he's not comparable with Mick Channon.

[Lord Duckhunter]

The point is you don’t need to be a one club player to be a legend. The reason Prowse won’t be a legend has fuck all to do with going to West Ham, it’s more down to his average ability. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Golf swing is no Windmill.

[Osvaldorama]

2 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Sorry this is mental.

JWP is and was for us a proven Premier League player.

Right now Flynn Downes is proven to not be good enough for the Premier League, which is why WHU bombed him out to us on loan.

 

Fuck knows why people are giving it the "grass isn't always greener" routine when he has played 49 times in the Prem and in Europe this season.

l do agree with this, but I don’t think its that mental of an opinion. 

I actually do think Downes has the potential to be better than JWP if given a chance at PL. He is a “proper DM” that does his job well and understands his role deeply. Loves a tackle, fantastic touch. He really reminds me of Morgan Schneiderlin. 
 

Aside from his free kicks, JWP was a bit of a nothing player when he didn’t have Romeu next to him. I can barely think of any games that JWP directly dragged us through (without his free kicks).

Obviously Downes hasn’t proven himself at the highest level whatsoever, whereas JWP has many, many times. But in open play it feel like Downes has a bigger overall impact on the team than JWP. 

 

 

[Ted Bates Statue]

13 hours ago, Dman said:

I said at the time and I stand by it now, I rate Downes higher than I've ever rated JWP. 

Would it be fair to suggest that Downes has a higher ceiling than JWP? 🙂

[Ball boy]

I’m in the I’d prefer downes to sign rather than Jwp back club. 

[egg]

8 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

l do agree with this, but I don’t think its that mental of an opinion. 

I actually do think Downes has the potential to be better than JWP if given a chance at PL. He is a “proper DM” that does his job well and understands his role deeply. Loves a tackle, fantastic touch. He really reminds me of Morgan Schneiderlin. 
 

Aside from his free kicks, JWP was a bit of a nothing player when he didn’t have Romeu next to him. I can barely think of any games that JWP directly dragged us through (without his free kicks).

Obviously Downes hasn’t proven himself at the highest level whatsoever, whereas JWP has many, many times. But in open play it feel like Downes has a bigger overall impact on the team than JWP. 

 

 

Agreed 100%. JWP has proven himself at the top level. Downes hasn't, but he offers no less around the pitch in open play than JWP, and probably more.

The areas where JWP is streets ahead is the free kicks, and fitness. Downes seems a tad fragile for whatever reason. Had he been fit all season, I think the outcome may have been different. 

[CB Fry]

7 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

l do agree with this, but I don’t think its that mental of an opinion. 

I actually do think Downes has the potential to be better than JWP if given a chance at PL. He is a “proper DM” that does his job well and understands his role deeply. Loves a tackle, fantastic touch. He really reminds me of Morgan Schneiderlin. 
 

Aside from his free kicks, JWP was a bit of a nothing player when he didn’t have Romeu next to him. I can barely think of any games that JWP directly dragged us through (without his free kicks).

Obviously Downes hasn’t proven himself at the highest level whatsoever, whereas JWP has many, many times. But in open play it feel like Downes has a bigger overall impact on the team than JWP. 

 

 

Downes has had a chance in the PL, and as a result got sent out on loan to the league below. He's already 25, an age where JWP was a PL regular.

We're in the Championship where Adam Armstrong is banging goals in for fun once more. I think we need to remember our current level.

If nothing else it does seem that Downes struggles with the consistent intensity of matches and volume of matches.

Edited 9 May, 2024 by CB Fry

[Osvaldorama]

5 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Downes has had a chance in the PL, and as a result got sent out on loan to the league below. He's already 25, an age where JWP was a PL regular.

We're in the Championship where Adam Armstrong is banging goals in for fun once more. I think we need to remember our current level.

If nothing else it does seem that Downes struggles with the consistent intensity of matches and volume of matches.

You’re overlooking 2 facts:

1) That David Moyes is a football terrorist who hates good footballers. 
2) The level that West Ham are aiming for (Europe) is way above the level we and a few other solid PL clubs are aiming. 
 

A sane PL manager would have kept Downes at the club imo. Most WHU fans felt the same. 
 

[Lord Duckhunter]

I’m not Prowe’s biggest fan, he’s over rated on here, but he’s a different level to Downes. One day Downes maybe at that level, but he’s not there yet. 

[Saint_clark]

13 hours ago, Ball boy said:

I’m in the I’d prefer downes to sign rather than Jwp back club. 

Crazy. Downes has 21 appearances in the Prem, JWP has nearly 400 with over 50 goals. There's no comparison.

Downes is essentially the level of Jack Cork.

Edited 9 May, 2024 by Saint_clark

[hypochondriac]

13 hours ago, Ball boy said:

I’m in the I’d prefer downes to sign rather than Jwp back club. 

So the mentalist club. 

 

[CylonKing]

16 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Downes is essentially the level of Jack Cork.

So an excellent, proven Premier player then? 😉

Always loved Jack Cork and thought we were a better team with him in it.

[Gloucester Saint]

16 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Sorry this is mental.

JWP is and was for us a proven Premier League player.

Right now Flynn Downes is proven to not be good enough for the Premier League, which is why WHU bombed him out to us on loan.

 

Fuck knows why people are giving it the "grass isn't always greener" routine when he has played 49 times in the Prem and in Europe this season.

Agree with most of this, JWP has more than a decade of regular PL football, dozen England caps, set piece record and some good non-set piece goals. Downes is a very good player, touch harsh to say he’s proven not to be PL calibre as has seemingly done well when given an opportunity at West Ham, but he’s not quite cutting it for West Ham want to be e.g top 8 in the same Jack Cork wasn’t when Saints were at that level for 3-4 seasons but was very effective in the Champ and first couple of seasons back in the top flight.

Like Jack Cork was at Burnley, Downes improves them and Everton downwards this season. 

If, huge if, the club wins the play-offs, Downes if West Ham’s new boss decides he’s surplus, would need to be supplemented by at least one Victor/Diop type mountains who can screen the back 4/5 and get up and down the pitch. Selling Romeu, legs going or not, killed JWP last season, and out of a stupid summer 2022 was one of the moronic decisions of the lot. Smallbone will be loaned out again as would Aribo. 

Given there’s a new keeper needed whatever the division, probably at least one CB, CM and strikers, good luck to Wilcox’s replacement!

Edited 9 May, 2024 by Gloucester Saint

[Saint Matty 76]

Let's just get both. Downes in the 6 and JWP in the current Smallbone role. Cheers.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Agree with most of this, JWP has more than a decade of regular PL football, dozen England caps, set piece record and some good non-set piece goals. Downes is a very good player, touch harsh to say he’s proven not to be PL calibre as has seemingly done well when given an opportunity at West Ham, but he’s not quite cutting it for West Ham want to be e.g top 8 in the same Jack Cork wasn’t when Saints were at that level for 3-4 seasons but was very effective in the Champ and first couple of seasons back in the top flight.

Like Jack Cork was at Burnley, Downes improves them and Everton downwards this season. 

If, huge if, the club wins the play-offs, Downes if West Ham’s new boss decides he’s surplus, would need to be supplemented by at least one Victor/Diop type mountains who can screen the back 4/5 and get up and down the pitch. Selling Romeu, legs going or not, killed JWP last season, and out of a stupid summer 2022 was one of the moronic decisions of the lot. Smallbone will be loaned out again as would Aribo. 

Given there’s a new keeper needed whatever the division, probably at least one CB, CM and strikers, good luck to Wilcox’s replacement!

Romeu wanted to go back to Spain pal. I know as fans we think the club should force players to stay because they're under contract etc but he had a new kid and wanted to go home, the club did right by him, he was replaced by Lavia which was a good signing. Of all the sticks to beat the club with this isn't one of them. 

[HKsaint]

Let’s give them sulemana in exchange of JWP and Downe. 

[S-Clarke]

43 minutes ago, HKsaint said:

Let’s give them sulemana in exchange of JWP and Downe. 

I'll tell you what, let's be extra generous and give them Mara as well.

Just package them up as a phenomenal young talent bundle delivered in a box with a ribbon on, and then we can take Downes and JWP - no receipts or returns though.

Edited 9 May, 2024 by S-Clarke

[CB Fry]

7 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

You’re overlooking 2 facts:

2) The level that West Ham are aiming for (Europe) is way above the level we and a few other solid PL clubs are aiming. 

In the four seasons we finished 8th, 7th, 6th, 8th JWP played between 30 and 40 matches each of those seasons.

So he was performing at the level above "solid PL clubs" that you are pitching Downes at.

[Charlie Wayman]

5 hours ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

Let's just get both. Downes in the 6 and JWP in the current Smallbone role. Cheers.

I hope you're joking. Glad to see the back of him.

[Charlie Wayman]

14 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

In the four seasons we finished 8th, 7th, 6th, 8th JWP played between 30 and 40 matches each of those seasons.

So he was performing at the level above "solid PL clubs" that you are pitching Downes at.

Mostly as a spectator IIRC. There were other players in that side who created our success.

[CB Fry]

2 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Mostly as a spectator IIRC. There were other players in that side who created our success.

But Flynn Downes would have been an irreplaceable lychpin in that team would he?

Even his biggest fan on here admits he wouldn't get regular game time at a team pushing for Europe. JWP did.

[Mixedkebab]

5 hours ago, CB Fry said:

In the four seasons we finished 8th, 7th, 6th, 8th JWP played between 30 and 40 matches each of those seasons.

So he was performing at the level above "solid PL clubs" that you are pitching Downes at.

He started less than half our PL games over those 4 seasons, he only became a true regular under Hasenhuttl 

[chiknsmack]

12 hours ago, Turkish said:

Romeu wanted to go back to Spain pal. I know as fans we think the club should force players to stay because they're under contract etc but he had a new kid and wanted to go home, the club did right by him, he was replaced by Lavia which was a good signing. Of all the sticks to beat the club with this isn't one of them. 

The club set itself on fire to keep Romeu warm.

We had a couple of season of "If Romeu doesn't play we suck". We finally sign a teenage apprentice to back him up in that hopes that we won't have to suffer through a period of "We suck" for once, and what does the club do? Let Romeu leave.

The club did right by him, I can't begrudge him the move, and even in a footballing sense it wasn't the dumbest move the club has made in the past few years. But while some of those dumb moves (eg. not signing a striker) made a big difference in the club's fortunes, they were out of the club's control ("We tried to sign Gakpo/Ramos/whoever but it didn't work). Romeu staying or going was entriely in the club's control, and arguably made the biggest difference to the club's fortunes of any move. And they pulled the wrong rein.

I firmly believe that if Romeu sees out his contract we don't get relegated. The club had the option to not let him leave. It is a perfectly cromulent stick with which to beat them.