Saints Charged With Spying on Mboro Training

[Badger]

2 hours ago, RedArmy said:

I think it’s more the furore from Wrexham who will argue that they should have replaced us. 
 

The legal ramifications of us being kicked out make it even more unlikely than it already was for anyone outside of the mentalists in Middlesbrough. 

I don’t see the Wrexham argument as the incident occurred after the season and league positions were decided. 
 

I wouldn’t be so confident that expelling us from playoffs won’t happen due to difficulties arising. Don’t forget Swindon’s demotion after winning the playoffs some years ago. 

[Badger]

5 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

‘Looking for badgers’ 🦡 

Oi! Fuck off ! 
 

I am aware of the Ron Davies story. Davies being a Welsh Labour MP rather than our great CF. And just to add this has no bearing on my username 

[Saint_clark]

2 minutes ago, Badger said:

I don’t see the Wrexham argument as the incident occurred after the season and league positions were decided. 
 

I wouldn’t be so confident that expelling us from playoffs won’t happen due to difficulties arising. Don’t forget Swindon’s demotion after winning the playoffs some years ago. 

It won't be happening. Saints could take legal action against the EFL (and possibly Boro, if we deny the allegations) to the tune of the Premier League TV money. 

[BARCELONASAINT]

I hate what has come out and as a true sports fan i am utterly appalled that my team have potentially broken the rules  regarding spying. I got talking to my son last night who is the head coach for an American team and brought this matter up for his view on it. To say i was quite shocked was an understatement but now i've had time to think on what he said i think i'm just appalled football has come to this. These are the comments he made to me and bear in mind he has connections all around the UK, South America and America.

Decisions that cost 100s of millions are going to leverage every source of information possible

The mistake was getting caught

There are now scouting services made up of former secret service staff from various countries who offer to spy on players

who can geolocate players

This was taught on a webinar I was on last week

By a sporting director of a top division European club

basically he implied every club out there is breaking the rules one way or another to get an edge!

[Lord Duckhunter]

19 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

I bet that Bournemouth full back who’s been messaging under age girls is grateful we’ve taken the heat off him the past few days.

Do you really believe this pony. Nobody gives a shite, outside of Southampton or Middlesbrough.
 

At least I hope not, I’m off to sexually harass a couple of nine pinters, safe in the knowledge nobody will notice as they’re too busy worry about Spy gate. Has The Donald commented on it yet, I hope it doesn’t make him take his eye off the  Iran situation 
 

 

Edited 17 hours ago by Lord Duckhunter

[SNSUN]

19 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

I bet that Bournemouth full back who’s been messaging under age girls is grateful we’ve taken the heat off him the past few days.

Who, Al-sex Ji-minorz? I think that story will go on much longer than Spygate

[EssEffCee]

2 hours ago, Mboto Gorge said:

Yeah, “They won’t get away with this under Gibbo’s watch. Gibbo will go all the way with this”. 
Fuck me, is he Pablo Escobar or something ?

 

They kept singing "there's only one Stevie Gibson" today along with the cheating bastards song.

Proper odd behaviour.

[Turkish]

Jordan Sibley those days bullying dry cleaners with Cortese demands starting to pay off 👏👏👏👏

 

 

[Whitey Grandad]

5 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

That, and the fact that the club have basically admitted there’s something in it. 
 

Of you honestly believe the club would have issued the statement they did if there was absolutely nothing in it, you’re deluded….Its not some innocent bird watcher or dog walker randomly wandering around who has mistakenly be identified as a Southampton employee…

If you examine our statement it is pretty anodyne. No admission of guilt.

[Ted Bates Statue]

2 hours ago, BARCELONASAINT said:

Decisions that cost 100s of millions are going to leverage every source of information possible

The mistake was getting caught

There are now scouting services made up of former secret service staff from various countries who offer to spy on players

who can geolocate players

This was taught on a webinar I was on last week

By a sporting director of a top division European club

basically he implied every club out there is breaking the rules one way or another to get an edge!

Thanks for the insight, confirms my suspicions.

The time to have kicked off over cheating in football was with the scourge of diving, but that particular cat got out of the bag decades ago and there has been no real appetite to tackle that problem.

This is just due diligence on steroids, and we'll need to do this sort of thing to keep up with the others if we get promoted. 

[Willo of Whiteley]

4 hours ago, beatlesaint said:

I bet that Bournemouth full back who’s been messaging under age girls is grateful we’ve taken the heat off him the past few days.

He got sent to the U18’s.

👀

[Osvaldorama]

9 hours ago, BARCELONASAINT said:

I hate what has come out and as a true sports fan i am utterly appalled that my team have potentially broken the rules  regarding spying. I got talking to my son last night who is the head coach for an American team and brought this matter up for his view on it. To say i was quite shocked was an understatement but now i've had time to think on what he said i think i'm just appalled football has come to this. These are the comments he made to me and bear in mind he has connections all around the UK, South America and America.

Decisions that cost 100s of millions are going to leverage every source of information possible

The mistake was getting caught

There are now scouting services made up of former secret service staff from various countries who offer to spy on players

who can geolocate players

This was taught on a webinar I was on last week

By a sporting director of a top division European club

basically he implied every club out there is breaking the rules one way or another to get an edge!

Obviously. 
 

Football has always been dirty. Even more so in the modern age. (Look what city, Chelsea, Liverpool, Madrid etc. get away with.)
I’m actually glad we are doing stuff like this. Everyone else is. 

Like you said, the stupid part was getting caught. 
 

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Osvaldorama

[whelk]

Anyone else been deeply affected by the news? I am completely off my food and haven’t left my bed. Don’t know how I am going to face work tomorrow

[Holmes_and_Watson]

16 minutes ago, whelk said:

Anyone else been deeply affected by the news? I am completely off my food and haven’t left my bed. Don’t know how I am going to face work tomorrow

I'm joining my company's corporate espionage team in a week. No interview required. Association with Saints was all they needed to know about my dubious moral values.

 

[Sheaf Saint]

24 minutes ago, whelk said:

Anyone else been deeply affected by the news? I am completely off my food and haven’t left my bed. Don’t know how I am going to face work tomorrow

I'm going to feel like this going in to work tomorrow...

[CB Fry]

9 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

If you examine our statement it is pretty anodyne. No admission of guilt.

Also nothing suggesting they will deny, defend or refute any of it. If they thought they were remotely innocent the statement would say something to that end.

The anodyne nature of the statement means there's something in it so the best we can hope for is co-operation and contrition will work to keep the punishment down.

Plus if they can prove that it was an over excited young analyst going a bit rogue that would help. This is a bit harder (because it's not very likely) and will have to involve paying someone off so there is a sacrificial sacking to protect Tonda and the coaches.

 

Edited 6 hours ago by CB Fry

[HarvSFC]

8 hours ago, Ted Bates Statue said:

Thanks for the insight, confirms my suspicions.

The time to have kicked off over cheating in football was with the scourge of diving, but that particular cat got out of the bag decades ago and there has been no real appetite to tackle that problem.

This is just due diligence on steroids, and we'll need to do this sort of thing to keep up with the others if we get promoted. 

Yeah, clubs all over the country break rules. "Tapping up" players and managers is just accepted after Liverpool got caught with Van Dijk. Would argue that had a more significant impact on us than us watching a training session, and they got away with a written apology and declaring they wouldn't sign him... Until five months later.

Then you've got all the clubs selling their women's teams to themselves to avoid FFP and some dodgy "swap" deals with players between clubs to get around it too. Look how much Newcastle signed then 30 year old Odysseas Vlachodimos when Elliot Anderson went the other way. Vlachodimos had made five appearances for Forest, as mentioned old for a footballer as well. Newcastle had Pope and Dubravka and they signed Vlachodimos for £20m. A goalkeeper, not dodgy at all. He's made one League Cup appearance in two years.

Yeah, some clubs get away with breaking rules in plain sight. Spying wouldn't have been some great idea that we've created, I imagine most clubs are still doing it. We were just the stupid ones that got caught. But, it has to be a fine at most for the punishment. If we were to get caught twice, that's probably when the deductions would come in.

Their Echo journalist thinks the second leg should be played without home fans...

 

[DellBlockH]

13 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

As said earlier, there is no way that the tactics that were being prepared would have been used today, so no advantage was gained by us.

Up to a point. Their manager said, post-match, that we would have known all about their tactics today and that they'd never played in that shape before. Well, if we knew about it, we certainly gained no advantage from that know.edge in the first half. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Anyone else been deeply affected by the news? I am completely off my food and haven’t left my bed. Don’t know how I am going to face work tomorrow

Has the club set up a dedicated helpline yet?

[rallyboy]

Local paper writes mad stuff to cheer up locals and to distract from the fact that their team failed to win their biggest home game of the season.

 

[Toussaint]

9 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

If you examine our statement it is pretty anodyne. No admission of guilt.

You shouldn’t let that get in the way of a good old fashioned lynching.

[RedArmy]

10 hours ago, Turkish said:

Jordan Sibley those days bullying dry cleaners with Cortese demands starting to pay off 👏👏👏👏

 

 

That’s Fab…

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

rice29. 

[St Chalet]

If I were the EFL I’d let this rest until after the game Tuesday. If we get knocked out it will take a lot of the pressure off the decision. 
 

 

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Anyone else been deeply affected by the news? I am completely off my food and haven’t left my bed. Don’t know how I am going to face work tomorrow

I have been deeply affected, I think I’m going to have to go to a nice country pub, have three pints of strong ale and an afternoon nap. Totally out of character, but I think it will help me process the trauma. 

[Bob60]

I am sure that Northern echo was wanting us expelled the other day, now it's, IF we are guilty second leg behind closed doors, maybe they know something.

[Toussaint]

21 minutes ago, HarvSFC said:

Yeah, clubs all over the country break rules. "Tapping up" players and managers is just accepted after Liverpool got caught with Van Dijk. Would argue that had a more significant impact on us than us watching a training session, and they got away with a written apology and declaring they wouldn't sign him... Until five months later.

Then you've got all the clubs selling their women's teams to themselves to avoid FFP and some dodgy "swap" deals with players between clubs to get around it too. Look how much Newcastle signed then 30 year old Odysseas Vlachodimos when Elliot Anderson went the other way. Vlachodimos had made five appearances for Forest, as mentioned old for a footballer as well. Newcastle had Pope and Dubravka and they signed Vlachodimos for £20m. A goalkeeper, not dodgy at all. He's made one League Cup appearance in two years.

Yeah, some clubs get away with breaking rules in plain sight. Spying wouldn't have been some great idea that we've created, I imagine most clubs are still doing it. We were just the stupid ones that got caught. But, it has to be a fine at most for the punishment. If we were to get caught twice, that's probably when the deductions would come in.

Their Echo journalist thinks the second leg should be played without home fans...

 

 No mark wanbabee hacks are having a field day with this. Let’s hope, that when we are vindicated, they have slipped up here and there and face libel and slander actions.

[beatlesaint]

1 minute ago, St Chalet said:

If I were the EFL I’d let this rest until after the game Tuesday. If we get knocked out it will take a lot of the pressure off the decision. 
 

 

Yes I agree and i think given the timeframe that will happen, ok they may get around to hearing all the evidence from both sides by then but make a decision Wednesday at the earliest.

I'm gonna have to stay away from Twitter or X as its now called cos every two bit journalist is also chipping in with their theoires like we have actually sent someone up to Middlesbrough to poison their whole first team squad !!

[Paulwantsapint81]

Are boro still upset that Saints stayed up 96-97 due to boro’s points deduction over cancelling a game?

If it is proven that Tonda & board sanctioned spying there is no defence 

Chances of a dodgy or 2 decision going against saints on Tuesday?

[Tamesaint]

5 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Yes I agree and i think given the timeframe that will happen, ok they may get around to hearing all the evidence from both sides by then but make a decision Wednesday at the earliest.

I'm gonna have to stay away from Twitter or X as its now called cos every two bit journalist is also chipping in with their theoires like we have actually sent someone up to Middlesbrough to poison their whole first team squad !!

Yes wait until Tuesday's game nut they will need to be pretty fast on Wednesday to announce something with the playoff final just 10 days latdr. 

[Saint NL]

Have we been kicked out of the playoffs yet?

[obelisk]

So far there's an allegation, a charge, a screaming mob and a "no comment" in response. If there's ever proof of an offence being committed or a guilty plea being entered give us a shout then. In the meantime I'll refrain from beating myself with a punishment whip.

[beatlesaint]

25 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

Yes wait until Tuesday's game nut they will need to be pretty fast on Wednesday to announce something with the playoff final just 10 days latdr. 

No they wont because they wont kick us out, they might like to but the legal aspect would be a nightmare.

Saints would appeal

Wrexham would lodge a complaint saying they should take Southampton's place

Boro will say they get a bye into the final.

It would literally be a lawyers feeding frenzy.

[Badger]

8 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

No they wont because they wont kick us out, they might like to but the legal aspect would be a nightmare.

Saints would appeal

Wrexham would lodge a complaint saying they should take Southampton's place

Boro will say they get a bye into the final.

It would literally be a lawyers feeding frenzy.

Why should Wrexham take our place ? The offence was after the  season ( or “regular” season as the hipster cunts want to call it), so had no bearing on the league positions. (Assuming no other club wants to respond to Middlesbrough’s invitation to add further complaints !!).

There is more of a case for Middlesbrough to be given a bye than Wrexham joining the play offs. In truth though it seems no advantage was gained by this IF it was as stated.

 

[Badger]

21 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

Have we been kicked out of the playoffs yet?

They’re probably saving tgat up for after we’ve won them. 

[trousers]

1 minute ago, Badger said:

Why should Wrexham take our place ? The offence was after the  season ( or “regular” season as the hipster cunts want to call it), so had no bearing on the league positions

Assuming this was a one-off incident, of course...

[saintant]

Sounds like we are going with the claim that the intern was acting rogue with no authority from the club. If this was the case then the club hasn't really done anything wrong and all the blame lies with the intern. We'll need a watertight defence and have all our ducks in a row on this. Ideally the intern admits this is what happened and is sacked for the furore he has caused with no monetary compensation. If possible the club need to prove they received no information from the intern. If he was using high end equipment the club need to be able to prove they did not pay for and supply it. The club need to reveal the work attendance of the intern on the day in question - was he due in, if so and he didn't show up was there any check on his reason for absence or his actual whereabouts? The club needs to be sure there are no other previous similar incidents that could come to light. 

If we can prove a sound case that this is what transpired we should only receive a rap on the knuckles. There will always be those who claim no smoke without fire and Boro and their fans will never accept it but we must build a sound case to put this to bed. But, I reiterate, there must be no lies or half truths - let's get the truth out there warts and all and take our punishment.

Edited 4 hours ago by saintant

[LeBizzier69]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

Assuming this was a one-off incident, of course...

Not sure how you’d prove otherwise, without being caught in the act.

or unless teams have got clear cctv footage of the same bloke where he shouldn’t be. Then how do you prove it’s him/not doctored footage unless it’s crystal clear? 
 

maybe tech these days would make the search easier but that sounds more than a bit tricky.

[trousers]

5 minutes ago, LeBizzier69 said:

Not sure how you’d prove otherwise, without being caught in the act.

or unless teams have got clear cctv footage of the same bloke where he shouldn’t be. Then how do you prove it’s him/not doctored footage unless it’s crystal clear? 
 

maybe tech these days would make the search easier but that sounds more than a bit tricky.

Agree it might be difficult to prove it wasn't just a one-off, but that doesn't mean it's impossible, nor that the club won't decide to go into 'full disclosure' mode to avoid future repercussions of other incidents come to light later on...

Edited 4 hours ago by trousers

[beatlesaint]

8 minutes ago, Badger said:

Why should Wrexham take our place ? The offence was after the  season ( or “regular” season as the hipster cunts want to call it), so had no bearing on the league positions. (Assuming no other club wants to respond to Middlesbrough’s invitation to add further complaints !!).

There is more of a case for Middlesbrough to be given a bye than Wrexham joining the play offs. In truth though it seems no advantage was gained by this IF it was as stated.

 

Oh FFS dont you start, its bad enough all these bloody Boro fans and North East hack journalists 🤣

I didnt say they would/should I just suggested that they would explore that avenue legally.

[trousers]

4 minutes ago, saintant said:

Sounds like we are going with the claim that the intern was acting rogue with no authority from the club

Blimey... You mean one of my hairbrained theories might come true for once...?! 🙂

[beatlesaint]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

Agree it might be difficult to prove it wasn't just a one-off, but that doesn't mean it's impossible, not that the club might decide to go into 'full disclosure' mode to avoid future repercussions of other incidents come to light later on...

Well presumably no other team in the Championship train right next to an open golf course and public footpath do they ?

[Badger]

42 minutes ago, Paulwantsapint81 said:

If it is proven that Tonda & board sanctioned spying there is no defence 

Have to wonder how far up the tree this was known. 
 

Although we can mock the hysterical crap coming from some Middlesbrough fans and local journalists, IF complaint is upheld and we’re found guilty of breaching the regulations it might have more serious consequences than we are expecting. 
 

The situation is different from Leeds in that rules were different and subsequently changed. There isn’t really a precedent to consider since Leeds. Heard about this on the radio yesterday:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jul/27/canada-womens-coach-bev-priestman-banned-from-football-for-a-year-after-spying-scandal

Whole episode seems unnecessary, and even If it is more commonplace than known, it seems to have been done in amateur fashion from some of the descriptions. (Which range from having a mobile device, to more advanced espionage kit that the KGB or Mossad would be proud of).  
 

Just win the fucking game on Tuesday Saints. 

 

 

[saintant]

5 minutes ago, trousers said:

Blimey... You mean one of my hairbrained theories might come true for once...?! 🙂

I think many of us have had the hope that this is how things occurred and articles are beginning to appear claiming that this is the the official version from the club.

Edited 4 hours ago by saintant

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, Toussaint said:

 No mark wanbabee hacks are having a field day with this. Let’s hope, that when we are vindicated, they have slipped up here and there and face libel and slander actions.

We won’t be “vindicated”. What’s so hard to understand. If there was nothing in it, the club would have issued a flat out denial and would have given our side of the story to friendly press or someone like Blackmore. They wouldn’t be “working with” the EFL, as there would be nothing to work with. Somebody with connections to SFC was up there spying on them, the only issues is how deep those connections were, was it authorised and how high up the food chain does it go. There’s absolutely zero chance an investigation will conclude that some random bloke with no connection to SFC did it off his own back, in his own time, and on his own wedge. At best we could be able to muddy the authorisation bit, and deliver them a patsy.

Edited 4 hours ago by Lord Duckhunter

[trousers]

1 minute ago, beatlesaint said:

Well presumably no other team in the Championship train right next to an open golf course and public footpath do they ?

No idea... I'm just saying that, until we know the full facts, it's not impossible that this isn't a one-off (i.e. I'm just staying the obvious)

[Maggie May]

Saints won’t be kicked out because it’ll open up a can of worms for all clubs.  Most probably do it - even Middlesbrough, which would be hilarious if it came out.

[saintant]

3 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

We won’t be “vindicated”. What’s so hard to understand. If there was nothing in it, the club would have issued a flat out denial and would have given our side of the story to friendly press or someone like Blackmore. They wouldn’t be “working with” the EFL, as there would be nothing to work with. Somebody with connections to SFC was up there spying on them, the only issues is how deep those connections were, was it authorised and how high up the food chain does it go. There’s absolutely zero chance an investigation will conclude that some random bloke with no connection to SFC did it off his own back, in his own time, and on his own wedge. 

This seems to me to be the crux of the matter. If it was authorised we haven't a leg to stand on. If it wasn't authorised my view is the club have done nothing wrong.

[LegalEagle]

Nobody apart from the club’s lawyers and a handful of people at most in the club knows what has happened here. Nobody at Middlesbrough knows what has exactly happened here, who was responsible, what was done etc. It’s guesswork and supposition. The EFL themselves don’t know the full extent. Their charge was premature. The whole matter needs investigating fully. Nothing of any substance will happen in the next few weeks unless Saints make some kind of confession that is accepted by the EFL. Highly unlikely that will happen unless there is some kind of plea deal that the club see as being a good thing.

Boro have made life harder for themselves here because of their inability to hit a cow’s arse with a banjo. If they were three or four up from the first leg, which they should have been, this would be fading away already. Because they are useless in front of goal and the writing is now on the wall for Tuesday night, they’re looking for an easier route through to the play off final i.e. Saints expulsion. It was quite clear from the first half yesterday that if, yes if, there has been any spying it had no positive effect.

[trousers]

4 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

We won’t be “vindicated”. What’s so hard to understand. If there was nothing in it, the club would have issued a flat out denial and would have given our side of the story to friendly press or someone like Blackmore. They wouldn’t be “working with” the EFL, as there would be nothing to work with. Somebody with connections to SFC was up there spying on them, the only issues is how deep those connections were, was it authorised and how high up the food chain does it go. There’s absolutely zero chance an investigation will conclude that some random bloke with no connection to SFC did it off his own back, in his own time, and on his own wedge. At best we could be able to muddy the authorisation bit, and deliver them a patsy.

Maybe the club are playing their "no comment" card despite being 'innocent' because they're concerned about the welfare of the intern in doing so, if indeed they were acting off their own back?

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, trousers said:

Maybe the club are playing their "no comment" card despite being 'innocent' because they're concerned about the welfare of the intern in doing so, if indeed they were acting off their own back?

I cannot believe an 'intern' did all of this alone and rather randomly.