#Spygate

[Miltonaggro]

Just now, sadoldgit said:

Rockliffe Hall Golf Club?

If they didn’t they absolutely must next time we play Karen FC.

[SaintJackoInHurworth]

If the rumours that he left the club in March are wrong, then there are several possible reasons that he went up a day before the rest of the club:

1. He was spying at the behest of the club!
2. He went up in advance to make arrangements for Saints stay in County Durham and while up North visited Rockliffe.

If rumours that he now works for Aston Villa are true, it is still a long way up North, but maybe he has friends in the area... or maybe he was planning to watch the game and went up a couple of days earlier... or maybe he was spying for Aston Villa (which may explain why he was near the academy pitches rather than the first team pitches).

[Toadhall Saint]

1 minute ago, SaintJackoInHurworth said:

If the rumours that he left the club in March are wrong, then there are several possible reasons that he went up a day before the rest of the club:

1. He was spying at the behest of the club!
2. He went up in advance to make arrangements for Saints stay in County Durham and while up North visited Rockliffe.

If rumours that he now works for Aston Villa are true, it is still a long way up North, but maybe he has friends in the area... or maybe he was planning to watch the game and went up a couple of days earlier... or maybe he was spying for Aston Villa (which may explain why he was near the academy pitches rather than the first team pitches).

He works for Saints. 

[hypochondriac]

I'm fascinated to know if he had any contact with the ex boro and saints analyst. Would be really interesting if he had. 

[trousers]

37 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

It doesn’t matter if we knew about the rule or not it’s someone’s job to know hence why we have roles that cover regulatory compliance. Not knowing is not a defence.

Yep, totally agree.... but from a reputational perspective, doing something wrong out of ignorance won't be viewed as heiniously as willfully doing something wrong.... it's the difference between the press being able to lable Tonda a "cheat" versus "a bit of a naive nicompoop"... reputation matters....

[Saint Marky]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

He may get suspended for, say 3-6 months

 No chance we will go into pre season, in what ever league, with Ben Garner as the coach with the attention that would come with a returning Tonda

All we’ve got to do is pin it all on Tonda. We take a European human rights lawyer into the meeting, explain as an immigrant Tonda didn’t understand this was not allowed, he’s foreign and as you can see from his long pauses before answering a question in interviews, struggles with our language and spying was invented in Germany and is encouraged over there. Also he hates our mac chicken nuggets, theirs are far superior, as are the kebabs, so his human rights are being violated. Christ, we will probably get points added and Tonda will be knighted and offered the England manager job, so relax everyone. 

[Toadhall Saint]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

I'm fascinated to know if he had any contact with the ex boro and saints analyst. Would be really interesting if he had. 

Yep but it would need to be documented - emails, voicemails, text messages etc.

[Saint Marky]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

.

Edited 3 hours ago by Saint Marky
.

[Turkish]

Just now, Miltonaggro said:

If they didn’t they absolutely must next time we play Karen FC.

Its actually a lovely hotel, very posh. Some friends of ours who love to boast about how much they spend on things go there every few months to use the spa. Saints also used to stay at Forest Pines when we played Hull away there is a framed, signed Saints shirt in the entrance to the golf club so the sort of place we would stay at.

[Toussaint]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

I'm fascinated to know if he had any contact with the ex boro and saints analyst. Would be really interesting if he had. 

I’d be fascinated to know if I’m actually going to Wembley this Saturday. I think Hull would too. 

[Toadhall Saint]

Just now, trousers said:

Yep, totally agree.... but from a reputational perspective, doing something wrong out of ignorance won't be viewed as heiniously as willfully doing something wrong.... it's the difference between the press being able to lable Tonda a "cheat" versus "a bit of a naive nicompoop"... reputation matters....

So the defence is “I’m thick sorry”? As that wouldn’t be so bad for our reputation? Seriously hope we have more than that.

[Stud mark of doom]

1 hour ago, Toadhall Saint said:

So I have tried to find who is responsible for Regulatory Compliance. There seems to be two roles neither of which are currently filled and from as far as I can see they have been vacant since around the new year.

my reason for looking is that it would be those roles that would come under scrutiny in this. In effect the buck stops with them not the head coach. It is these roles that need to ensure compliance to the regulations.

if Saints can evidence that they have processes/ training in place that deals with the regulations (this can be as easy as taking a multiple choice test at the end of relevant training) and potentially the individuals in effect agree to abiding by said regulations then although not off Scot free that would be genuine mitigation for rule 172. Unfortunately or fortunately that puts the onus firmly on the individual ie Mr Salt.

the only reason I mention the above is that most of my working life I have been working in heavily regulated industries where regulatory compliance or not complying has huge implications.

some of this has already been highlighted earlier in this thread by A N Other.

Thanks

for the avoidance of doubt, I wasn’t suggesting ignorance would be a defence - just interested in whether it might be reality. 

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

I’d be fascinated to know if I’m actually going to Wembley this Saturday. I think Hull would too. 

Obviously but that's a given. 

[Adkins' Bus]

15 minutes ago, trousers said:

The pre-match press conference was on the Wednesday, so I guess our entire entourage could have been up there by the time of the incident on the Thursday morning?

I happen to know that Tonda and Spors were still down here Thursday lunchtime.

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Yep but it would need to be documented - emails, voicemails, text messages etc.

which Boro may well have as part of their case.

[Dman]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I'm fascinated to know if he had any contact with the ex boro and saints analyst. Would be really interesting if he had. 

If he did, that would be pretty easy to prove you'd think and I think the case would almsot certinly be thrown out.

I did find Tonda's comment "Its hard for me not to talk, I want to and will do at some point" interesting... I suspect its along the lines of this is normal practice in italy, germany etc. but will be interesting to hear what he has to say once all is done. 

 

[trousers]

23 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

So he may not have travelled 300 miles off his own back, he was already up there? Or could have been?

Yeah, that's what I'm now thinking.... hmm... interesting (perhaps).... Do we know what hotel the club stayed at? (Not sure why knowing that might be informative, but felt inclined to ask!)

Edited 3 hours ago by trousers

[Sheaf Saint]

9 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

If they didn’t they absolutely must next time we play Karen FC.

And leave a review highlighting the great view.

[S-Clarke]

This is all so frustrating, I just want to look forward to the game. Discuss the team, think about which players are fit, who is back in training etc. This is being allowed to hang over both ourselves and Hull for too long in my eyes - just get on with it already, make the decision. The fans are the ones being punished here.

No one knows where they stand, and the speculation is rife because of it. I think it's being totally overblown (by Boro) as this isn't even a regulation in the EPL or FIFA wide per say (just assumed good faith), but I can't lie that I'm frustrated by the club that they chose to partake in this so blatantly in the first place, right before a knock out game, and give everyone the ammunition they now have -  because you can't lie, this is an own goal no matter how small of one.

[trousers]

4 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

So the defence is “I’m thick sorry”? As that wouldn’t be so bad for our reputation? Seriously hope we have more than that.

I was comparing two possibilities, both of whihc would be "bad" reputationally... I was simply suggesting that "willfully cheating" damages our reputation more than "inadvertantly cheating". Maybe, maybe not... just floating it as a notion...

[DT]

29 minutes ago, DellBlockH said:

I don't like these analogies but this is an area I know something about (not from being a flasher). It is not illegal to be naked in your home, garden or even Above Bar Street unless your intention is to cause harm or distress to another person. So, if you're just coming from the shower and pass the window, it should not be a problem. If you're standing at the window waving your willy about, you might be liable to prosecution.

What this has to do with the club's current situation, I don't  know.

How about if you're standing at a window waving your Willy Salt about?

*gets coat*

[trousers]

23 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

So he may not have travelled 300 miles off his own back, he was already up there? Or could have been?

 

21 minutes ago, Dman said:

We'd have gone up friday. 

Ah, ok... is there a possibility that the team traveled up on the Friday but we sent an advance party / entourage of support staff up a day or so before? (not that this probably matters in the general scheme of things... just my natural curiosity)

[Saint Scott]

Sky currently reporting from Hulls training ground, lots of images of the squad. No need to send a spy for this one 👍

[AlexLaw76]

3 minutes ago, DT said:

How about if you're standing at a window waving your Willy Salt about?

*gets coat*

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1LegfbawYg/?mibextid=wwXIfr

[trousers]

16 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I'm fascinated to know if he had any contact with the ex boro and saints analyst. Would be really interesting if he had. 

It wouldn't surprise me if it transpires there was some kind of collaboration / interaction between the two of them prior to the incident....

Edited 2 hours ago by trousers

[Sunglasses Ron]

5 minutes ago, Saint Scott said:

Sky currently reporting from Hulls training ground, lots of images of the squad. No need to send a spy for this one 👍

What happens if someone from the club is watching Sky?  Should we declare an unintentional breach! 😅

Oh, actually, we're more than 72 hours away so no problem!

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

7 minutes ago, Saint Scott said:

Sky currently reporting from Hulls training ground, lots of images of the squad. No need to send a spy for this one 👍

Message from Tonda: he’s asked if they can zoom in a little and focus on any peculiarities compared to how Hull normally line up.

[Saint86]

15 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

This is all so frustrating, I just want to look forward to the game. Discuss the team, think about which players are fit, who is back in training etc. This is being allowed to hang over both ourselves and Hull for too long in my eyes - just get on with it already, make the decision. The fans are the ones being punished here.

This isn't going to go away for a while so get used to it. Win or lose on Saturday, we've crossed Gibson now - they'll be a legal case to follow this where he tries to sue us for loss of chance in the play off game. Boro's odds will be considered at circa 25% of winning the playoffs and gaining access to the premier league millions. (25% being £50M)... What percentage of that will we be deemed to have jeopardised through out spying offence is anyone's guess - 10% - 20% (so £5M-10M?). He'll be lodging that case whether we win or lose.

Edited 2 hours ago by Saint86

[Saint_clark]

26 minutes ago, SaintJackoInHurworth said:

If the rumours that he left the club in March are wrong, then there are several possible reasons that he went up a day before the rest of the club:

1. He was spying at the behest of the club!
2. He went up in advance to make arrangements for Saints stay in County Durham and while up North visited Rockliffe.

If rumours that he now works for Aston Villa are true, it is still a long way up North, but maybe he has friends in the area... or maybe he was planning to watch the game and went up a couple of days earlier... or maybe he was spying for Aston Villa (which may explain why he was near the academy pitches rather than the first team pitches).

Mate, just stop. It happened, he did it, now we just need to know how far knowledge of it went within the club.

[RedArmy]

2 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

This isn't going to go away for a while so get used to it. Win or lose on Saturday, we've crossed Gibson now - they'll be a legal case to follow this where he tries to sue us for loss of chance in the play off game. Boro's odds will be considered at circa 25% of winning the playoffs and gaining access to the premier league millions. (25% being £50M)... What percentage of that will we be deemed to have jeopardised through out spying offence is anyone's guess - 10% - 20% (so £5M-10M?). He'll be lodging that case whether we win or lose.

I couldn’t give a flying fuck about any afters, personally. 
 

I just want to know if we are playing Saturday or not. Bored of it now. Just get it decided and announced. 

[Hawkswood]

Have we won yet ?

 No ?

 

Okay, back tomorrow. 

[Dan Johnson]

12 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

This is all so frustrating, I just want to look forward to the game. Discuss the team, think about which players are fit, who is back in training etc. This is being allowed to hang over both ourselves and Hull for too long in my eyes - just get on with it already, make the decision. The fans are the ones being punished here.

No one knows where they stand, and the speculation is rife because of it. I think it's being totally overblown (by Boro) as this isn't even a regulation in the EPL or FIFA wide per say (just assumed good faith), but I can't lie that I'm frustrated by the club that they chose to partake in this so blatantly in the first place, right before a knock out game, and give everyone the ammunition they now have -  because you can't lie, this is an own goal no matter how small of one.

Couldn't agree more.

I don't think I have ever looked forward to just getting back to the preparation of a game, more than I have this one!!!

IF and it feels like a very big IF at the moment, I end up on my way to Wembley this weekend, talking with my brother and mates about the GAME, about the PLAYERs about the TACTICS, I'm going to enjoy that moment just as much as the game!!

I'm normally impatiently waiting for kick off but I will definitely enjoy that half an hour or so before kick off, watching the players warm up, soaking in the atmosphere, more than I ever have in the past this weekend!

 

[saintant]

47 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

The Sun has changed its tune 🤣

Apart from their 'columnist' Troy Squeaky Clean Deeney. He hopes Hull smash Saints and conveniently ignores the fact that they have been caught and punished for their own form of cheating.

[Saint Garrett]

6 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

This isn't going to go away for a while so get used to it. Win or lose on Saturday, we've crossed Gibson now - they'll be a legal case to follow this where he tries to sue us for loss of chance in the play off game. Boro's odds will be considered at circa 25% of winning the playoffs and gaining access to the premier league millions. (25% being £50M)... What percentage of that will we be deemed to have jeopardised through out spying offence is anyone's guess - 10% - 20% (so £5M-10M?). He'll be lodging that case whether we win or lose.

What was the outcome of Sheff Utd / West Ham cheating scandal ? Pretty much one of the only ones that I can think of thats similar.

[skintsaint]

This div on facebook was still adament even when people showing screenshots of being able to buy tickets once logged in 😅

Mentalists.

[saintant]

47 minutes ago, trousers said:

It did occur to me the other day to float this idea.... I don't think it's a particularly wacky hypothsis that, IF it does transpire that it was indeed Tonda who instigated this/these 'spying' missions, that he was doing so out of a position of ignorance to the rules, given (we're led to believe) that no other major league in the world has such a rule as the "72 hour" EFL rule.

Before I get jumped upon by the forum thought police, yes, I think it's probably unlikley that Tonda was acting ignorantly, and of course, even if he was, we all know that ignorance isn't a defence (well, in a court of law, anyhow)... but can we 100% rule it out as a possibility...?

And we all know who they are.

[benjii]

7 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

This isn't going to go away for a while so get used to it. Win or lose on Saturday, we've crossed Gibson now - they'll be a legal case to follow this where he tries to sue us for loss of chance in the play off game. Boro's odds will be considered at circa 25% of winning the playoffs and gaining access to the premier league millions. (25% being £50M)... What percentage of that will we be deemed to have jeopardised through out spying offence is anyone's guess - 10% - 20% (so £5M-10M?). He'll be lodging that case whether we win or lose.

Yeah, but that's fine. Let that play out in the background. Nothing to do with the footballing operation and any amount will be pretty negligible, if they even bother at all.

[Saint86]

3 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

I couldn’t give a flying fuck about any afters, personally. 
 

I just want to know if we are playing Saturday or not. Bored of it now. Just get it decided and announced. 

To each their own, but nothing has really changed for saints. Boro can whip up all the media storms they want - all the matters is that we are in the premier league next season 🤷‍♂️. But just getting a verdict on the playoff final is not going to be the end of this by a long way.

[Saint_lambden]

Sorry to ask if it's been covered before, but does anyone know in the scenario that we're booted out the PO final and we appeal, whether the that appeal is heard by the same commission or would it be a separate legal team considering it? 

[Saint86]

2 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

What was the outcome of Sheff Utd / West Ham cheating scandal ? Pretty much one of the only ones that I can think of thats similar.

Demanded £40M odd, ended up with circa £20M.

That was a clear and significant violation in the relegation fight. TV monies were a lot less in those days though.

Edited 2 hours ago by Saint86

[skintsaint]

Just now, Saint_lambden said:

Sorry to ask if it's been covered before, but does anyone know in the scenario that we're booted out the PO final and we appeal, whether the that appeal is heard by the same commission or would it be a separate legal team considering it? 

Same commision. Leicester appealed their decision which took 2 months to settle.

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

I just wish they’d hurry up. It’s my son’s birthday on Saturday and I really need to know whether my refund will come through in time to find him another present which could be equally disappointing.

Edited 2 hours ago by Ivan Katalinic's 'tache

[Saint86]

4 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

This div on facebook was still adament even when people showing screenshots of being able to buy tickets once logged in 😅

Mentalists.

  Hahahaha, is this one actually spreading? My goodness, but they are a special bunch.

1 hour ago, Saint86 said:

Saw one on social media just now. A boro fan had tried to go on to our tickets website to buy a ticket, saw the "not for sale" message (obviously because he wasn't eligible) and then started a whole thread about how we'd stopped selling tickets because we know we're getting kicked out - with lots of happy / crowing boro fans in the comments🤣

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Saint86

[RedArmy]

4 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

To each their own, but nothing has really changed for saints. Boro can whip up all the media storms they want - all the matters is that we are in the premier league next season 🤷‍♂️. But just getting a verdict on the playoff final is not going to be the end of this by a long way.

Yes, yes it is. 
 

Once that game has been played it’s over. 
 

They can sue us all they want but the game and its result will stand. 

[saintant]

35 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Its actually a lovely hotel, very posh. Some friends of ours who love to boast about how much they spend on things go there every few months to use the spa. Saints also used to stay at Forest Pines when we played Hull away there is a framed, signed Saints shirt in the entrance to the golf club so the sort of place we would stay at.

Surely that's been taken down now 🙂

[Saint Marky]

I do hope we get a very loud and prolonged rendition of ‘ Fuck Sky Sports’, the question is do we do it during the match, or at the end when we’ve been promoted?

[Lord Duckhunter]

I’ve always thought the longer it goes on the worse the outcome will be for us. Still believe that, if it goes much past lunchtime today, we’re out imo. Leaves tomorrow for our appeal. 

[Convict Colony]

biggest lesson in all of this is to not include interns in manager of the month pics

[hypochondriac]

Just now, Lord Duckhunter said:

I’ve always thought the longer it goes on the worse the outcome will be for us. Still believe that, if it goes much past lunchtime today, we’re out imo. Leaves tomorrow for our appeal. 

The legal bods on here suggested the opposite. 

[Convict Colony]

Just now, Lord Duckhunter said:

I’ve always thought the longer it goes on the worse the outcome will be for us. Still believe that, if it goes much past lunchtime today, we’re out imo. Leaves tomorrow for our appeal. 

I know women who think otherwise