Sports Republics response to “Spygate”

[Sarnia Cherie]

11 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Not really the statement I was hoping for.

Maybe looking at the backgrounds of those that made up the panel should have been done and then objected to at the time. The horse has escaped over the hill by now.

Exactly. Wouldn't you think with all that was at stake that they would have scrutinised those involved in the inquiry and appeal and insisted on a fair hearing with unbiased people. How come nobody at Southampton Football Club made an issue of this. It could have had a much different outcome. Yet another own goal scored by Dragan and Co and what a howler!

[saintant]

Given the time the club has had to come up with a response this is weak and wishy washy. Maybe they feel the best thing is not to rock any particular boats so they've opted for this bland statement. I'd have preferred something diplomatic but a little more hard nosed. I'm guessing the club has decided to draw a line under the whole saga and move on. My feeling from the statement is that they probably wanted to say more but this is what they've come up with through slightly gritted teeth. 

[LGTL]

I think it’s blindingly obvious the direction that the club is going in after that statement. Both legally and from a football perspective. 

[Sarnia Cherie]

4 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

It means no one is getting sacked. Not Parsons, not Tonda. 

Not the position I was expecting but it's a position.

We haven't heard from the FA yet. 

[beatlesaint]

Not really sure we are in a position to take the moral high ground, that’s what that statement smacks of to me.

[EssEffCee]

20 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Not really the statement I was hoping for.

Maybe looking at the backgrounds of those that made up the panel should have been done and then objected to at the time. The horse has escaped over the hill by now.

Laughable that they're essentially owning up to not bothering with their own due diligence at the time.

[EssEffCee]

14 minutes ago, James said:

The more I read from the Club the clearer it is that we completely and utterly ballsed up our response to this issue when it first arose. How can we be raising objections to Panel members etc in a statement almost 2 weeks after we got kicked out? Surely we could have taken a harder line at the time and kicked up more of a fuss about the way the proceedings were being brought if that’s genuinely what we thought at the time?! Seems to me as if this is covering the bases after the fact.

If you heard about another football club you'd barely believe that they could genuinely handle it that badly.

When its Sport Republic's Southampton though it's incredibly believable and not at all surprising.

[CB Fry]

4 minutes ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

We haven't heard from the FA yet. 

True but that's someone being banned, rather than being sacked. It reads like we aren't going to sack him on our own terms.

It also reads like the club will fight any banning order (probably using Bielsa as precedent, even though there are other cases where bans have happened).

[saintant]

I don't think this statement needed to apologise to the fans as it is a response to the written reasons given by the Arbitration Panel to knock back our appeal against the original decision. It would be interesting to read the full text of the Arbitration Panel statement so I'm assuming that will be made public shortly.

[hypochondriac]

I mentioned last week that I know someone who has talked to the likes of Parsons and the message was that they weren't expecting FA charges against Tonda (albeit this was shortly after the verdict). I wonder if this makes that more true?

[trousers]

24 minutes ago, saintant said:

Given the time the club has had to come up with a response this is weak and wishy washy. Maybe they feel the best thing is not to rock any particular boats so they've opted for this bland statement. I'd have preferred something diplomatic but a little more hard nosed. I'm guessing the club has decided to draw a line under the whole saga and move on. My feeling from the statement is that they probably wanted to say more but this is what they've come up with through slightly gritted teeth. 

I would imagine they're now doing what their solicitors are telling them to do, every step of the way. As such, theres probably no justification for criticising what 'the club' is saying at the moment given they're probably being advised not to come out with any 'from the heart' stuff until the legal manouvres (whatever they may be) are completely concluded. All of which I can understand, as frustrating as it is from our perspective. 

Edited 4 hours ago by trousers

[EssEffCee]

Not sure how anyone can read that statement and think we might take legal action. Seems pretty clear to me that we're wanting to draw a line under it and move on.

[Scummer]

19 minutes ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

Exactly. Wouldn't you think with all that was at stake that they would have scrutinised those involved in the inquiry and appeal and insisted on a fair hearing with unbiased people. How come nobody at Southampton Football Club made an issue of this. It could have had a much different outcome. Yet another own goal scored by Dragan and Co and what a howler!

How much notice did they have of who was on the panel? Remember it was all rushed through very quickly at the request of the EFL. All that was said in advance was that it was an independent panel from a company who specialise in these sorts of cases.

[Saint Pete]

22 minutes ago, saintant said:

Given the time the club has had to come up with a response this is weak and wishy washy. Maybe they feel the best thing is not to rock any particular boats so they've opted for this bland statement. I'd have preferred something diplomatic but a little more hard nosed. I'm guessing the club has decided to draw a line under the whole saga and move on. My feeling from the statement is that they probably wanted to say more but this is what they've come up with through slightly gritted teeth. 

It is pretty weak I agree, but didn't honestly expect any different after the way this has been handled by us up to now. There's a couple of complaints, but as others have said the one about the makeup of the panel feels hollow as it should have been argued more strongly before the case, potentially with a public statement on it. Boro were putting out statements so we could have done the same to apply pressure to get a fairer hearing. 

It's interesting there's not more reference to the severity of the punishment, you can only assume our lawyers don't think we have much of a leg to stand on in pursuing that angle unless we are keeping our powder dry (which I doubt). 

[trousers]

[trousers]

This pretty much echos my thinking...

 

[hypochondriac]

Just now, trousers said:

I don't really understand his desire for someone to own the story and lead from the front. If we are going to sacking people or are teeing up some legal response then we are hardly going to get someone front and centre as the fall guy. It is tough for fans though clearly because we haven't been addressed at all.

[EssEffCee]

4 minutes ago, trousers said:

This pretty much echos my thinking...

 

The points deduction isn't getting dropped now. Those proceedings are over.

[benjii]

I wonder if Winnie declared his prior employment to the panel.

I've asked his firm three times but they seem unwilling to reply.

[saintant]

30 minutes ago, Saint Pete said:

It is pretty weak I agree, but didn't honestly expect any different after the way this has been handled by us up to now. There's a couple of complaints, but as others have said the one about the makeup of the panel feels hollow as it should have been argued more strongly before the case, potentially with a public statement on it. Boro were putting out statements so we could have done the same to apply pressure to get a fairer hearing. 

It's interesting there's not more reference to the severity of the punishment, you can only assume our lawyers don't think we have much of a leg to stand on in pursuing that angle unless we are keeping our powder dry (which I doubt). 

Haven't we appointed these hotshot lawyers that look after Man City? We must have something up our sleeve if we're paying their fees.

[davefizzy14]

Just now, saintant said:

Haven't we appointed these hotshot lawyers that look after Man City? We must have something up our sleeve if we're paying their fees.

Yeah that's what I think. We've definitely got something lined up for our legal case. 

[Wade Garrett]

All I want to hear now is that we are going full throttle for promotion next season and will be improving the squad to fucking smash the league.

Couldn’t really give a monkeys about an apology now.  Time to look forward.

[Livewire]

41 minutes ago, Scummer said:

How much notice did they have of who was on the panel? Remember it was all rushed through very quickly at the request of the EFL. All that was said in advance was that it was an independent panel from a company who specialise in these sorts of cases.

So once you find out you do a basic search on who the members of the Panel are. It would have taken one look at Winnie's Wikipedia page to see that he played for Middlesbrough. That should have ruled him out instantly. All of this could be done very fast. Why raise this now and not then? 

[Colinjb]

51 minutes ago, EssEffCee said:

Not sure how anyone can read that statement and think we might take legal action. Seems pretty clear to me that we're wanting to draw a line under it and move on.

This is it. Softly softly while they further consider what they can do. 

Mentioning the make up of the panel tells us where our focus lies 

[S-Clarke]

A truly weak and washy statement, I assume Parsons wrote that.

We start next season on -4 points, we don't know who our manager will be, how many players we will have, or who will want to join us. At some point in this entire sorry saga the club need to accept responsibility, own it, and make their own decisions to pave the way going forward - but it seems like they're waiting for others to do so.

I never thought we'd have such incompetent business people running my club.

[SaintsLoyal]

Everyone was highlighting the media response from Boro, photo leak etc, it was at that point the club could have clearly made a statement even sideways, that they will now not get a fair hearing.  That carries more weight than whinging about some mush who played one game on loan 35 years ago.

[Saints4Prem]

32 minutes ago, SaintsLoyal said:

Everyone was highlighting the media response from Boro, photo leak etc, it was at that point the club could have clearly made a statement even sideways, that they will now not get a fair hearing.  That carries more weight than whinging about some mush who played one game on loan 35 years ago.

I think we were extremely naive and must have thought that the expulsion was a non starter. The choice of the tribunal though, was extremely poor as there were thousands of qualified persons but the EFL chose two of the three who had connections with Middlesborough. In my opinion if those two had integrity they would not had stood on the board. Our legal team should have done a lot better at the start but it beggars belief the EFL allowed themselves to be put under this scrutinity (unless of course they wanted a specific outcome?)  

Edited 2 hours ago by Saints4Prem

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

Just seen the statement, I kind of agree with 'Blakey' responding to Adam Blackmore. I think the lack of a fans apology in it could very well be (maybe wishful thinking...) that a separate gesture with regards reduced cost of upcoming season tickets alongside an apology to go with it.

I also believe it's a bit restrained due to the FA action that's still to come.

[Willo of Whiteley]

59 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

All I want to hear now is that we are going full throttle for promotion next season and will be improving the squad to fucking smash the league.

Couldn’t really give a monkeys about an apology now.  Time to look forward.

First part - yes.

Second part, no, an apology is necessary and it buries the whole saga.
I feel SR will drag this out and it’ll overshadow everything else.

 

It’ll be another thing to add to their “mistakes/incompetences” list.

[stevematthews635]

2 hours ago, LGTL said:

I think it’s blindingly obvious the direction that the club is going in after that statement. Both legally and from a football perspective. 

Amen. This is why Saints are being quiet....imo they are getting ready to litigate.  The statement today appears to be the clearest sign this is where it is heading

[Suhari]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

All I want to hear now is that we are going full throttle for promotion next season and will be improving the squad to fucking smash the league.

Couldn’t really give a monkeys about an apology now.  Time to look forward.

Yep.

Let's get a line drawn under it all, and go full throttle into prep for next season.

Tonda is taking us up.

[Thripp87]

Well what another load of waffle that statement was. Still banging on like a spoilt teenager about how the ruling isn’t fair.

No update at all on anything fans care about. More pointless words with no meaning at all.

Nothing at all around who is taking accountability for this stupidity.

 

All this talk about litigation and legal responses, have you all forgotten we have tweedle dee and tweedle twat running the football operations at SFC. You are giving them far too much credit. They have fuck all planned in my opinion, and are sitting there hoping Tonda doesn’t get banned. No chance the points deduction gets overturned.

Edited 1 hour ago by Thripp87

[Thripp87]

2 hours ago, CB Fry said:

True but that's someone being banned, rather than being sacked. It reads like we aren't going to sack him on our own terms.

It also reads like the club will fight any banning order (probably using Bielsa as precedent, even though there are other cases where bans have happened).

Do you think even Sports Republic have worked out Leeds and Bielsa aren’t a precedent yet? No, probably not. 

[Pamplemousse]

I don't really care about any more statements, time to move on and focus on getting promotion next season.

The thought of the EFL chairman having to present us with the trophy would be most amusing.

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

11 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

I don't really care about any more statements, time to move on and focus on getting promotion next season.

The thought of the EFL chairman having to present us with the trophy would be most amusing.

I think that may be setting our sights a little high. Forget that the 3 relegated PL sides will likely be battling away at the top, if our side is as depleted as I think it could well be then another half dozen or so current Championship teams will prove to be a bit of a bugger too.

Edited 1 hour ago by TheAlehouseBrawlers

[Winnersaint]

Boro fans still losing their shit over on X. Can’t be arsed to screenshot any, don't get what’s in it for them other than performative northern monkey outrage. Or perhaps generating further outrage to wind the toxicity up to our detriment next season. We got caught, we got booted, they fucked up promotion, end of.

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, SaintsLoyal said:

There was no bias, utter tosh and it could have clearly been raised at the time, if those running the club had the management skills to do it. 

That's a very bold unsubstantiated statement. There may well have been bias even if it was subconscious. 

[AlexLaw76]

14 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

I don't really care about any more statements, time to move on and focus on getting promotion next season.

The thought of the EFL chairman having to present us with the trophy would be most amusing.

we aint getting top 2, no way. If this drags on be lucky to finish top 6. I know the playoffs include 7-8th place, but that needs to be bettered, surely.

[John B]

3 hours ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

Exactly. Wouldn't you think with all that was at stake that they would have scrutinised those involved in the inquiry and appeal and insisted on a fair hearing with unbiased people. How come nobody at Southampton Football Club made an issue of this. It could have had a much different outcome. Yet another own goal scored by Dragan and Co and what a howler!

But they were fucking guilty it was quite obvious from the start the club broke the rules

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

Exactly. Wouldn't you think with all that was at stake that they would have scrutinised those involved in the inquiry and appeal and insisted on a fair hearing with unbiased people. How come nobody at Southampton Football Club made an issue of this. It could have had a much different outcome. Yet another own goal scored by Dragan and Co and what a howler!

At what stage was the composition of the panel revealed?

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, SaintsLoyal said:

Everyone was highlighting the media response from Boro, photo leak etc, it was at that point the club could have clearly made a statement even sideways, that they will now not get a fair hearing.  That carries more weight than whinging about some mush who played one game on loan 35 years ago.

The 35 years is irrelevant. Equally as irrelevant as whether or not we gained a sporting advantage. The "one game" argument is equally pathetic. Even if he had played no games he had been paid by Middlesbrough FC over a substantial period. He should have recused himself from the start.

Edited 35 minutes ago by Whitey Grandad
Recused not refused. Ignorant autocorrect. Artificial Stupidity

[John B]

4 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

The 35 years is irrelevant. Equally as irrelevant as whether or not we gained a sporting advantage. The "one game" argument is equally pathetic. Even if he had played no games he had been paid by Middlesbrough FC over a substantial period. He should have refused himself from the start.

We messed up got found out lied then pleaded guilty just move on

[Challenger]

15 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

we aint getting top 2, no way. If this drags on be lucky to finish top 6. I know the playoffs include 7-8th place, but that needs to be bettered, surely.

Just need the club to spunk away god knows what on legal proceedings, fighting a battle that they have already surrendered.

[Whitey Grandad]

6 minutes ago, John B said:

We messed up got found out lied then pleaded guilty just move on

It affected the punishment, which are large part of the football community consider to have been very harsh.

[obelisk]

6 minutes ago, John B said:

We messed up got found out lied then pleaded guilty just move on

Would love to move on but there's still some that need to thrash themselves with sticks a bit more.

[CanadaSaint]

Most of us are happy to concede that we screwed up badly and deserved a significant punishment.  We also handled the matter very poorly, so - in some ways - we got what we deserved. We should take it on the chin and move on, chastened but looking forward.

What I find much harder to accept is a mealy-mouthed, chicken shit, “tail between our legs” statement that glosses over the fact that the judge, jury and executioner had clear connections to the party that benefitted massively from the ruling. That’s a disgrace which warrants further follow-up.

It would change nothing resulting from the ruling, but it would whistle bullshit on an organisation that’s okay with enforcing integrity and fairness principles but piss poor at following them.

[Lighthouse]

19 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

The 35 years is irrelevant. Equally as irrelevant as whether or not we gained a sporting advantage. The "one game" argument is equally pathetic. Even if he had played no games he had been paid by Middlesbrough FC over a substantial period. He should have refused himself from the start.

In the unlikely event that THB did stay this summer, presumably you think he should be dropped from the squad for our games against Stoke and Burnley next season?

[AlexLaw76]

8 minutes ago, Challenger said:

Just need the club to spunk away god knows what on legal proceedings, fighting a battle that they have already surrendered.

And be in a position where we "regrettably" have to find a new manager In Jul, let alone the fact we will drag out the transfer window until the last day

[aintforever]

1 minute ago, CanadaSaint said:

What I find much harder to accept is a mealy-mouthed, chicken shit, “tail between our legs” statement that glosses over the fact that the judge, jury and executioner had clear connections to the party that benefitted massively from the ruling. That’s a disgrace which warrants further follow-up.

This. It’s mind boggling how anyone can put together an independent panel of three and include two people with links to Middlesbrough one being a former fucking player.

What percentage of legal experts in this country are former Middlesbrough FC players? The whole think stinks, especially as the Middlesbrough chairman is in the EFL board.

[Whitey Grandad]

29 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

In the unlikely event that THB did stay this summer, presumably you think he should be dropped from the squad for our games against Stoke and Burnley next season?

Eh? What are you smoking?

They are completely different situations. Virtually in a separate universe.

A closer parallel would be where a loan player cannot play against his own club.