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Thread: Change the manager? If so, for who?

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    Quote Originally Posted by saint michael View Post
    Pointless changing the manager. Nothing will change until ownership changes.

    You can’t fund a premier league club off of purely the operational turnover as we are trying to do unless you are unearthing transfer gems every time buying cheap and selling big. A few failures as we have had in transfer market has killed this approach which was unlikely to work anyway. Somebody in the board hierarchy needs to recognise this very quickly or club will continue this slide.

    Ralph makes some strange decisions but probably trying every combination in the hope something positive can happen.

    Roller coaster ride to continue.
    100%

  2. #52

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    The trouble is we are stuck with a squad full of average dross. Now some of these players haven't turned it on with the previous four manager's what makes you think suddenly some of these lads can be considered " premiership players " or " World beaters"

    The reality is they are weak minded and not up to it..... We have a average team!

    Transition period it will take a few seasons to proper gut and rebuild by that time we may be dead and buried in the championship....

  3. #53

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    The real problem for me is that hassenhuttl doesn’t appear happy or particularly engaged. We need to try everything to address that if possible, but with the squad we have it’s a big ask

  4. #54

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    Short answer is no. That said, RH has made some baffling decisions this season with his team selections, tactics, and subs (or lack of). Whilst he has a pretty poor squad of players, there's no doubt in my mind that he could have done better with what's available to him, so it's understandable that questions are being asked.

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    When it comes to subs the problem is much of bench is made up of players the manager doesn't seem to rate and in truth aren't much cop anyway. when Ralph makes changes the ones that come on don't have the ability to change a game in our favour and often make us worse.

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  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barsiem View Post
    The real problem for me is that hassenhuttl doesn’t appear happy or particularly engaged. We need to try everything to address that if possible, but with the squad we have it’s a big ask
    Ralph isn’t happy because the players aren’t following instructions. Saying that he’s tinkering with the team at the wrong time. He said in a summer interview. He said it would be a tough season but we would see the benefits 2nd half of the season.
    I think he’s doing it the wrong way round , stabilise the team, strengthen the team in January then he can tinker around.

  7. #57

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    I don't think we should sack the manager, but after almost a year in charge he doesn't know his best formation or starting 11. He changes the defence every game and I believe that is the main reason for most of the errors, as have a sold line up every week will help. I know the defenders are not great, but stick with the best defence available and work with them.

    His body language hasn't been great this season and that is a worry. It seems he doesn't want to be here and I am still not sure that "hospital operation" was planned and I think something did go on behind the scenes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by manji View Post
    Ralph isn’t happy because the players aren’t following instructions. Saying that he’s tinkering with the team at the wrong time. He said in a summer interview. He said it would be a tough season but we would see the benefits 2nd half of the season.
    I think he’s doing it the wrong way round , stabilise the team, strengthen the team in January then he can tinker around.
    I think that’s what last season was about -come in, stabilise the team, play 3CBs (not his preferred setup), be pragmatic and keep us up. Then use a full summer with the squad to make changes and embed his preferred 4-2-2-2. Given that we struggled with 4-2-2-2 last season, there was bound to be growing pains moving to it this season -and that’s even before you get into the quality of the squad.

  9. #59

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    Pointing the finger at RH is ridiculous, and frankly makes me embarrassed to be in the same 'fan' base.

    He knows more than us. He has far, far more information at hand with which to make his calls and judgements, and he's more experienced than all of us, too. Last year, he was the messiah, and showed the difference between a clueless coach, and an excellent coach. Just because I don't understand why Vestegaard played the other week instead of Valery switching for Cedric, doesn't mean he was wrong. It just means I don't know why he did it.

    It doesn't mean professional managers are never wrong, but we've hardly had a sustained period of cockups! He's done far more right than wrong, and has earned enough to time see what he can do with this squad, which, if we're being honest, are largely the problem, and that's down to the board and the recruitment more than the manager.

  10. Default

    RH is not the problem

    Recruitment and current squad is

  11. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by doddisalegend View Post
    When have they shown they can compete in this league under Puel?, MoPe?, Hughes or Ralph? Four managers and still the same ****ty performances from the players.
    Surely 8th is competing?


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  12. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    RH is not the problem

    Recruitment and current squad is
    Sadly but not unexpectedly, this din is enjoying the current plight

    Before you move this post check the quantity of his posts saying pretty much the same since the weekend

  13. #63

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    Ralph is a decent manager. He's probably the best we're likely to get without fear of being poached by a big club.

    The people wanting him out already are probably the same people whinging about "no loyalty in football" when Poch and Koeman both left. It's embarrassing that we're even discussing this. The squad we have is utter cack. Redmond and MAYBE Begnarek are the only ones that a PL team would come in for if we got relegated. Ings at a push, if he stays injury free.

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    Certainly wouldn't want him out - who else would take this job on? Bit like the Redskins and Dan Snyder - the head coach job is a poisoned chalice.

    Have said before it will take a good couple of years to recover from the 3 years of disastrous recruiting and decisions.

    Having said that, some of RH's decisions are baffling - very much so. He was a breath of fresh air last season, bringing in younger players who did not let him down and made a difference, at least short term. This season is almost a complete reversal of that approach and it's been, on the whole, utterly depressing.

  15. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by washsaint View Post
    Certainly wouldn't want him out - who else would take this job on? Bit like the Redskins and Dan Snyder - the head coach job is a poisoned chalice.

    Have said before it will take a good couple of years to recover from the 3 years of disastrous recruiting and decisions.

    Having said that, some of RH's decisions are baffling - very much so. He was a breath of fresh air last season, bringing in younger players who did not let him down and made a difference, at least short term. This season is almost a complete reversal of that approach and it's been, on the whole, utterly depressing.
    Please never reference american football on this forum again. Thank you

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    Probably the only manager who would instantly improve matters is Sam Allardyce. I don’t have a problem with him but it’s not a long term solution. Ultimately, changing the manager would be a sticking plaster on a gangrenous wound of a club.

  17. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by ally_uk View Post
    The trouble is we are stuck with a squad full of average dross. Now some of these players haven't turned it on with the previous four manager's what makes you think suddenly some of these lads can be considered " premiership players " or " World beaters"

    The reality is they are weak minded and not up to it..... We have a average team!

    Transition period it will take a few seasons to proper gut and rebuild by that time we may be dead and buried in the championship....
    Frankly I'd settle for being an Average team, but we are not. We are well below being Average, we have a sub-standard team with weaknesses throughout the team and all over the pitch.

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    Our problem is that we are stuck with too many sh!te players and have a skint owner who doesnt invest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davefoggy View Post
    Please never reference american football on this forum again. Thank you
    Dear leader was at the NFL yesterday (presumably not at the football). Don’t expect an invite to the curry club anytime soon pal.
    Last edited by shurlock; 07-10-2019 at 07:41 PM.

  20. #70

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    Not read but assuming its a troll thread.

    The manager is working with a poor team, his main signing of the summer has been injured for a few games but has still scored 2.

    The weakness in CB has been apparent for over a season, veestergaard is a big bollock to of dropped by the transfer team to "fix" it, he's made the most individual mistakes in the CB pairings.

    Central Mid has been prem average for a few seasons now, Rom is having a better season but Pierre is a jack russell type player, lots of bark not much bite and JWP is a recycler with no pace.

    We are being crippled in FFP by our average signings only being out on loan and not being sold.

    Only way out is to increase commercial income short term, maybe need Huawei to become club sponsor with a 40mil a year deal hahahhhahaa

  21. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    Our problem is that we are stuck with too many sh!te players and have a skint owner who doesnt invest.
    Not sure if you know but I am sure MLG does, whats the max a owner can write off every year in FFP if he chose to invest ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Convict Colony View Post
    Not read but assuming its a troll thread.
    Read it. It’s not, it was to see where people’s views were, and refreshingly, almost everyone backs Ralph to continue and feels other factors are to blame.

    We need a bloody good transfer window in January, but god knows where we are going to get the finances. At least we need a defensive midfielder. It’s hard to know what to do with the centre back situation when we already have so many on the books.

  23. #73

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    Those calling for Ralph s head are ****ing spoilt brats.
    Give him time and the season at the very least before passing a judgement.
    Football fans have no long term vision it s getting more and more shameful by the day.

    Let the guy and the team work with no pressure ffs.
    The more pressure you put the more it will go downhill.

  24. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevy777_x View Post
    Those calling for Ralph s head are ****ing spoilt brats.
    Give him time and the season at the very least before passing a judgement.
    Football fans have no long term vision it s getting more and more shameful by the day.

    Let the guy and the team work with no pressure ffs.
    The more pressure you put the more it will go downhill.
    I agree with you ref Ralph

    But why is it shameful if people want a shyte manager out?

    Was it shameful that pellegrino did not last the the season, or Hughes did not finish what he started?

    I make that point as you said ‘football fans’ so must be a broader point instead of just referring to those mentals who want Ralph out (if they even exist)

  25. #75

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    Ralph is the last person who should be leaving the club. He is a quality coach as proved by the job he did at Leipzig but unfortunately we have an extremely average squad of players.

    Yes he has made mistakes but the players need to take a long hard look at themselves. There is so much wrong at the club currently, I said to my missus this morning that sadly the club lost it's soul when we lost Markus. I just find it very frustrating that we continue to spend £15-20m on players who turn out to be flops yet most other clubs seem to bring in at least one or two players who at least make a positive difference.

    I still think Che Adams deserves time as I think he will score goals - the problem is he currently looks like his confidence is shot to pieces. However, as someone who likes a flair player, I think Boufal needs to be given a run of games in the side. Yes, he is going toes the ball trying to beat a fourth or fifth player and he will frustrate but he is the one player in our team who can create something out of nothing.

    We are becoming dull to watch again with all this sideways and backwards possession. I'd much sooner see someone lose the ball trying a 40 yard pass inside the full back than all this dithering around deep in our own half where we lose the ball under pressure and it seems to lead more often than not to a goal or at least a shot on our goal. It's all being well playing the 'Guardiola' way but you need players who are brave and comfortable on the ball and capable of playing out from the back.

    There were quite a few on here having a go at Burnley for in their words hoofing it but they play to their strengths and at least create problems for their opponents. There is nothing wrong with getting the ball wide and putting quality balls into the box. I'm sure some of us would settle for Ashley Barnes playing up front for us at the moment as he's a handful but also scores goals. Quite why we feel the need to have a pop at a team with far less resources than us for playing to their strengths is beyond me. It smacks of arrogance and I thought we were a bit better than that.

    I think right now with the players we have, we should play Yann Valery on the right side of midfield with Cedric at right back. Cedric can then concentrate on defending and Valery will also provide cover defensively but also has the licence to get forward. The next starting 11 should in my opinion and based obviously on fitness be as follows.

    McCarthy

    Cedric. Bednarek. Yoshida. Bertrand

    Valery. Hojberg. Romeu. Boufal

    Redmond. Ings

    Djenepro on the bench until he is fully fit.


    The fans need to get behind the players but they also have to play some positive attacking football to get the fans onside. Wolves away looks a very tough game but it's time we started asking questions of the opposition rather than getting ourselves in trouble with sideways and backwards passing just to keep the possession stats high.

  26. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
    Surely 8th is competing?


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    With Van Dijk first half of the season and a huge dip in performances after his injury ruled him out for the season...

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    Bring in Greta Thunberg till summer, then Big Sam to keep the natives happy

  28. #78

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    Seven goals conceded in two home games - defending is the immediate issue to address.
    I don't want to go all Puel, but it's no time for gung-ho experimental attacking options.
    We need to get organised again - from the back.
    But Ralph knows this, in him we trust....

  29. #79

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    Hes not to blame for such a poor squad. I understand the desire to bring on youth players, and I understand the need to sell before we buy but Cahill was available for free and doing brilliantly at CPFC and yet we have the worst centre halves in the Premiership. That's bad planning

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morse View Post
    Hes not to blame for such a poor squad. I understand the desire to bring on youth players, and I understand the need to sell before we buy but Cahill was available for free and doing brilliantly at CPFC and yet we have the worst centre halves in the Premiership. That's bad planning
    That's down to Ralph, though, he made it very clear he had no interest in players nearing the end of their careers he apparently wants young players he can mould and improve.

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  31. #81

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    Ralph's backroom team is awful, and recruitment of a decent centre back was amateur. We're paying the price of both. Sacking him would be lunacy, however.

  32. #82

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    Needs to go back to playing 5 at the back. At least with 5 we don't look like we will concede every time the opposition have the ball.

  33. #83

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    Sacking the manager would be pointless. Who on earth would want to come to a club where the fans call for a change after 7 games in the season. Fans who consistently get out sung by visiting supporters. Fans that leave the ground after 70minutes (even when there’s only one goal in it) and in then in increasing numbers so that the stadium is less than 50% capacity at the final whistle.

  34. #84

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    It's all the fans fault.

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    Don't slag of our passionate 12th man

    Best fans in the land IMHO

  36. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Morse View Post
    Hes not to blame for such a poor squad. I understand the desire to bring on youth players, and I understand the need to sell before we buy but Cahill was available for free and doing brilliantly at CPFC and yet we have the worst centre halves in the Premiership. That's bad planning
    Too old for our 'model' apparently and wages too high

  37. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by DT View Post
    Ralph's backroom team is awful
    How do you know this? Player feedback? Or just pure guesswork?

  38. #88

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    8 games FFS, where we have played Liverpool, Man Utd, Spurs, and Chelsea.

    Liverpool we were unlucky not to win or at least draw, Man Utd unlucky not to win due to the sending off, Spurs game was unfortunate as IMO the sending off switched the pressure for them to win onto us and they could just sit back and counter, something we wanted to do.

    The Chelsea game was a heavy loss but they are in an in-form team, they beat Wolves 5-2 away as well, put 3 past Norwich as well, put 7 past Grimsby and created plenty of chances against pool, they are clearly looking good and getting better every game.

    Of the other 4 against lesser teams, 3 have been away, two of which we have won.

    The only really bad performances were Burnley away (though we were ok for 60 minutes) and the Bournemouth game where be battered them for most of the game but conceded from a corner and on the counter.

    We are 5 points of 7th.

    The team is very much a work in progress and is also a young team, that means we will be inconsistent. But crucially we have had a pretty tough run of fixtures, 50% of our games so far have been against the top 6. Burnley are sitting on 7th, they have only played two top 6 teams so far, and have played 2/3 promoted teams already, plus an out of form Wolves, out of form Everton (and us at home on a day conditions suited them).

    Similarly Palace have only played two of the top 6, their other 6 fixtures have been against West Ham, Everton, Sheff Utd, Villa, Norwich and Wolves.

    I am pretty sure had we had their fixture list we'd be on more than 7 points.

  39. #89

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    Keep RH, but we need to do something to sort out our defence and become more solid again.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...-big-win-west/

    Also frustrating reading that article. I said early summer we should be going for Gary Cahill as I felt he's exactly the sort of player we needed. You can pick one of the many players who have left, IMO we miss Jose Fonte the most. He was our captain and our leader, and we have yet to replace him properly. Yes we had VVD who was captain for a while after he left, but we hardly got much out of him after his injury and transfer request.

    I still believe RH is the man for the job, hopefully he will get some backing in January as we definitely need to freshen up.

  40. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by tajjuk View Post
    8 games FFS, where we have played Liverpool, Man Utd, Spurs, and Chelsea.

    Liverpool we were unlucky not to win or at least draw, Man Utd unlucky not to win due to the sending off, Spurs game was unfortunate as IMO the sending off switched the pressure for them to win onto us and they could just sit back and counter, something we wanted to do.

    The Chelsea game was a heavy loss but they are in an in-form team, they beat Wolves 5-2 away as well, put 3 past Norwich as well, put 7 past Grimsby and created plenty of chances against pool, they are clearly looking good and getting better every game.

    Of the other 4 against lesser teams, 3 have been away, two of which we have won.

    The only really bad performances were Burnley away (though we were ok for 60 minutes) and the Bournemouth game where be battered them for most of the game but conceded from a corner and on the counter.

    We are 5 points of 7th.

    The team is very much a work in progress and is also a young team, that means we will be inconsistent. But crucially we have had a pretty tough run of fixtures, 50% of our games so far have been against the top 6. Burnley are sitting on 7th, they have only played two top 6 teams so far, and have played 2/3 promoted teams already, plus an out of form Wolves, out of form Everton (and us at home on a day conditions suited them).

    Similarly Palace have only played two of the top 6, their other 6 fixtures have been against West Ham, Everton, Sheff Utd, Villa, Norwich and Wolves.

    I am pretty sure had we had their fixture list we'd be on more than 7 points.
    There is only so many times we can be unlucky against teams after a while you have to conclude maybe it's something other than luck.

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  41. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    Bring in Greta Thunberg till summer, then Big Sam to keep the natives happy
    She would increase the crowd noise, but wouldn't let us switch the floodlights on, and we definitely wouldn't be allowed the pyrotechnics, so on balance I'm not sure.

  42. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    Don't slag of our passionate 12th man

    Best fans in the land IMHO
    Trolling again....

  43. #93

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    that should be "whom"

  44. #94

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    To the person who said play Valery should play in midfield or the wing I agree he is a good dribbler and least he can beat a man I'd be tempted to try it against a weaker opponent.

  45. #95

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    Agree. Saints do not have one quality centre half and I’m pretty sure the young inexperienced Danso was not his first choice centre half signing hence the lateness of the transfer deadline deal.
    The club needs to back Ralph and not attempt to survive on the cheap.

  46. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by scott_saints View Post
    Needs to go back to playing 5 at the back. At least with 5 we don't look like we will concede every time the opposition have the ball.
    First half against Spurs they were having all kinds of joy down our right and finding plenty of space. That's not the problem, the main issues are:

    1. The defence changes every game, sometimes every half an hour and occasionally 20 minutes before kick off. Nobody looks like they know what's happening, be it in a four or a five.
    2. Our defenders aren't actually that good.

  47. #97

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    5 at the back means less player for the offensive side of things, but as things are our attacking players aren't clicking and leaking goals while not scoring goals is a clear recipe for relegation. so i guess shoring up the defence and getting a minimum of 0-0 draws out of games we are currently losing after scoring as a base to build from seems a more sensible approach.

    im certain our attack will start to produce goals if we don't concede morale sapping goals on the other side. whether 5 defenders is the answer or not is a question for those responsible to answer.

  48. #98

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    A back 5 for me as our defensive personnel aren’t good enough for a back 4- which I think frustrates Ralph!

    The central midfield pairing should be PEH/Romeu or PEH/JWP, think JWP needs dropping no point playing all three in a 5 at the back. PEH also needs dropping too but we cant as we’ve let Lemina go.

    A Redmond/Ings/Boufal front 3- leaves us with Adams, Djenepo as attacking subs and perhaps put Armstrong on for one of the CMs should we really need a goal.


    I also do think though one of Ralphs faults is focusing too much on this flexible idea that we ourselves don’t seem to have an identity and we can’t choose our best 11- lets just get a consistency going- I hope in these two weeks Ralph is working on a single formation and not getting the players to learn 4231s/343s/532s etc etc

    I’d rather teams adapt to us than the other way around- especially for this home game at Wolves- at least under Poch/Koeman we had a settled 11 that chose itself

  49. #99

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    mccarthy

    bednarek maya danso

    valery hoj rom bertrand

    boufal ings redmond

    IMO if we went with a back five that should be it. valery is much better having more offensive duties and less defensive ones. him and bertrand would provide ample width to the side while bednarek and maya would be aided by the pace and strength of danso if caught on the break. boufal and redders you'd hope will create enough chances for themselves and ings to score a few if hoj can link the midfield and attack with some success which is the biggest doubt i have about the side, hojs passes and movement seem too timid to link the mid with the attack which usually means the front 3 become isolated and very little chances are created. valery and bertrand might put in a few decent crosses but chances of ings latching onto their crosses are quite slim.

  50. #100

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    The problem is the constant shoe-horning of JWP into every starting eleven. Yes, he had a good end to last season, but he's been a waste of a shirt this season. Bringing back the old saying "form is temporary, class is permanent". I just don't get it. If he was an incredible threat from his mythical set-pieces then I could understand why he's on the pitch, but he just isn't. He's not better than what Lambert was at direct free-kicks and he didn't have half the reputation JWP has regarding them. He's made out to be the next Beckham by commentators (Not Saints fans), when he quite simply isn't.

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