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Matt Le Tissier Position

FrenchSaint

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FrenchSaint

FrenchSaint

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Hi all,

I've been a lurker on the forum for a number of years and have finally taken the plunge to officially sign up!

I have a question: I'm working on a little side project for fun, and I wanted to know about Matt Le Tissier's positions in different teams in the 90s. Having never seen him play and purely going by information that I've read / team selections I've found online, I imagine that he played mainly on the left in a 442 or as a 'number 10' in what could have been a 4312.

Could anyone enlighten / correct me or give me a little more detail?

Many thanks in advance!

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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

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25 minutes ago, jemanson said:

Was relieved to see this was a football-related thread and not a discussion on Matt's position on COVID, climate change or - (le) god forbid - Ukraine.

I've done my own research and discovered that Le Tissier never actually played for us. It's all just lies the mainstream media want you to believe.

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FrenchSaint

FrenchSaint

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1 hour ago, jemanson said:

Was relieved to see this was a football-related thread and not a discussion on Matt's position on COVID, climate change or - (le) god forbid - Ukraine.

Haha yeah sorry for having opened this can of worms!!

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The Left Back

The Left Back

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3 hours ago, FrenchSaint said:

Hi all,

I've been a lurker on the forum for a number of years and have finally taken the plunge to officially sign up!

I have a question: I'm working on a little side project for fun, and I wanted to know about Matt Le Tissier's positions in different teams in the 90s. Having never seen him play and purely going by information that I've read / team selections I've found online, I imagine that he played mainly on the left in a 442 or as a 'number 10' in what could have been a 4312.

Could anyone enlighten / correct me or give me a little more detail?

Many thanks in advance!

It's actually a more complicated question than it appears.  Having watched him avidly, I still can't name it.  He gets credited as being one of the highest scoring midfielders in the premier league but he's not really a midfielder.  And yet he was not an out and out striker.  I think it was one of the reasons he stayed (a bit like the JWP chat on the other thread today) in that whatever system we played was designed around getting the best out of him.  The two exceptions to that were when he first broke through, he was definitely played as a striker, and in the Branfoot era when he didn't really fit.

I remember the glorious Nicholl 4-2-4 formation with him wide right and Rod Wallace left, but with lots of fluidity when we had the ball so they both popped up all over. They both were expected to track back and help the full back.  Wallace was good at this, Le Tiss a bit of a liability.  In the Ball era my memory is that there was a formation for the other 10 and his job was to find space near the ball ready to receive it whenever we got it.  So that was like a roving 10 I guess in a 3-4-1-2.

I can't really relate him to a modern day player - perhaps Ozil but with a better shot? As I've said before, if Matt had been playing now he would be expected to be much fitter and better without the ball.  In our side I guess the Stuey role is the nearest fit? 

Hope this helps.  What is the side project and will it help me clarify this in my own mind?

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Baird of the land

Baird of the land

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2 hours ago, jemanson said:

My memory of Matt is that even if he had a nominal position he could pop up anywhere in the attacking half and under many managers our tactics were 'give the ball to Matt'. 

That was very much the 'Alan Ball era' approach in particular. Remember watching Baddiel's Le Tiss documentary where Le Tiss said he was concerned about his role under the new manager until he turned round and told them all to 'pass the ball to Matt'.

Edited by Baird of the land
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Badger

Badger

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1 hour ago, jemanson said:

I'm pretty sure that under Nicholl we played what was effectively a 424 with Matt in one of the winger positions and Jimmy Case pulling the strings as part of the 2.

Yes we did for a while, Rod Wallace was the other winger, with Shearer and Rideout in the centre. Very effective with MLT and RW swapping sides.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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1 hour ago, jemanson said:

I'm pretty sure that under Nicholl we played what was effectively a 424 with Matt in one of the winger positions and Jimmy Case pulling the strings as part of the 2.

Keep your German pressing and false nine bollocks.

This, for me, will be the ultimate footballing system.

Chris Nicholl we salute you.

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tajjuk

tajjuk

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4 minutes ago, Sunglasses Ron said:

In my time watching him (mid to late 90's) he was invariably an advanced central midfielder but with a license to roam wherever he could have most influence.  What was shown on team sheets, and where he ended up were often two different things.  

I'd say similar from watching him from a similar time, I suppose you'd say this no.10 or second striker type role with a lot of tactical freedom. 

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Mystic Force

Mystic Force

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Could not call him a second striker as in that period there were two stickers up top already. In a 4 in midfield Tis was the advanced playmaker of the pair with the other centre mid doing the holding roll. The roll was also to be the player run into the box to support the stickers on a running play through the centre or wing or to be outside the box to pick up loose balls on a more methodical attack. It has to be remembered that in this period wingers provided most of the width, with full backs overlapping some times to help with crossing, but the first instinct of the wide midfield players of the era was to go outside to create crosses for the forwards and arriving mid fielders rather than to cut inside like the current game.

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redkeith

redkeith

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Started out as a right winger under Chris Nicholl. 

Branfoot moved him to the left wing, to accommodate Perry Groves !!! He also played him about 10 yards in front of the left back, so he was miles away from goal. If  you look at the famous 2 goal games against Newcastle, both the goals were up the left hand side. 

Back to the right hand side of a front 3 under Dave Jones and Souness.

Ballie and Dave Merrington gave him a completely free role . Ballie's famous instruction " He is your best player, give him the ball until he is sick of it " .

Can't really remember much under Hoddle, only that he was injured a lot, and that Hoddle was jealous of his skills .  

Finally, under Stuart Gray, just go and score the last ever goal at the Dell with your wrong foot . 

 

 

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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17 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Something like 'The Balearic Front press' or the 'Siegfreid Line'?

I was hoping for a 24-letter compound noun, ideally with one of those German letters that look like a B but sound like S. Plus an umlaut or two.

Edited by CB Fry
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The Kraken

The Kraken

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Ah, 1989-90. What a season. 4-2-4 under Chris Nichol, Shearer, MLT, Rod and Ray Wallace, Franny all coming through the youth ranks (plus a young Jason Dodd making a big impact, and Neil Maddison and Andy Cook getting a handful of games each). We finished seventh, scored 71 goals (the second highest in the league) while conceding 63 (the third highest in the league). And of course the unforgettable 4-1 hammering of Liverpool at the Dell.

Edited by The Kraken
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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

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47 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

I was hoping for a 24-letter compound noun, ideally with one of those German letters that look like a B but sound like S. Plus an umlaut or two.

'Pressing striker front four' translates to "Stürmervornevierdrücken" no double s in there though.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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20 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Ah, 1989-90. What a season. 4-2-4 under Chris Nichol, Shearer, MLT, Rod and Ray Wallace, Franny all coming through the youth ranks (plus a young Jason Dodd making a big impact, and Neil Maddison and Andy Cook getting a handful of games each). We finished seventh, scored 71 goals (the second highest in the league) while conceding 63 (the third highest in the league). And of course the unforgettable 4-1 hammering of Liverpool at the Dell.

Also one of the greatest kits we ever had.

What a season.

Edited by CB Fry
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The Kraken

The Kraken

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26 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Also one of the greatest kits we ever had.

What a season.

It really was. Perhaps the last time we had black shorts and black socks? Or maybe the pony days carried that on.

Those socks were brilliant, they had a saints badge sewn into them, they were my footballing socks for a kick about for years (until the badge ripped off Ffs). Bought from sportskit near Debenhams.

Edit, just checked and we also did black shorts and socks 99-01 too.

 

Edited by The Kraken
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FrenchSaint

FrenchSaint

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4 hours ago, The Left Back said:

It's actually a more complicated question than it appears.  Having watched him avidly, I still can't name it.  He gets credited as being one of the highest scoring midfielders in the premier league but he's not really a midfielder.  And yet he was not an out and out striker.  I think it was one of the reasons he stayed (a bit like the JWP chat on the other thread today) in that whatever system we played was designed around getting the best out of him.  The two exceptions to that were when he first broke through, he was definitely played as a striker, and in the Branfoot era when he didn't really fit.

I remember the glorious Nicholl 4-2-4 formation with him wide right and Rod Wallace left, but with lots of fluidity when we had the ball so they both popped up all over. They both were expected to track back and help the full back.  Wallace was good at this, Le Tiss a bit of a liability.  In the Ball era my memory is that there was a formation for the other 10 and his job was to find space near the ball ready to receive it whenever we got it.  So that was like a roving 10 I guess in a 3-4-1-2.

I can't really relate him to a modern day player - perhaps Ozil but with a better shot? As I've said before, if Matt had been playing now he would be expected to be much fitter and better without the ball.  In our side I guess the Stuey role is the nearest fit? 

Hope this helps.  What is the side project and will it help me clarify this in my own mind?

Thanks so much for this! I agree that it's tricky, and you're hitting the nail on the head of what I'm interested in. Basically - would Matt Le Tissier have a place in modern football? There are no statistics (as far as I'm aware) for this period of time so I have to rely on hearsay. Ozil was a player I'd already thought of as a comparison, another maybe Riquelme... I even remember AC Milan accomodating an aging (partying) Ronaldinho who had absolutely zero defensive duties - not that Le Tissier and Ronaldinho had particularly similar play styles I'm more interested into how they fit into a setup. 

Thanks for mentioning the 3-4-1-2. I'd seen some of the squad selections mentioned 5 defenders and as I didn't know the players, I figured they could have been shoehorned into a 4-4-2.

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The Kraken

The Kraken

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I always say that as a younger player MLT was a little quicker than people give him credit for. Ok, he was not fast, but he was definitely no slouch. Certainly in some of his earlier games when he was playing out wide, he had a combination of supreme skill with a bit of pace to get him past defenders. When Alan Ball came in and gave him the luxury of a free attacking role, that kind of spelled the end of any hard running! His game became much more about finding the right space in the oppositions danger area and, yes, by the latter years of his time with us, he relied on his skill alone.

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Dellman

Dellman

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4 hours ago, FrenchSaint said:

Thanks so much for this! I agree that it's tricky, and you're hitting the nail on the head of what I'm interested in. Basically - would Matt Le Tissier have a place in modern football? There are no statistics (as far as I'm aware) for this period of time so I have to rely on hearsay. Ozil was a player I'd already thought of as a comparison, another maybe Riquelme... I even remember AC Milan accomodating an aging (partying) Ronaldinho who had absolutely zero defensive duties - not that Le Tissier and Ronaldinho had particularly similar play styles I'm more interested into how they fit into a setup. 

Thanks for mentioning the 3-4-1-2. I'd seen some of the squad selections mentioned 5 defenders and as I didn't know the players, I figured they could have been shoehorned into a 4-4-2.

Matty didn't really have a place in the football of his day---judging by the way England bosses ignored him (nine caps in all, I think). Saints played round him, he was the pivot, no England manager was willing to do that.

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Toadhall Saint

Toadhall Saint

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10 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

I always remember the England game MLT started, Italy at Wembley. He had a great chance in the first half, a header. It went wide. Zola scored later and England lost 1-0. Had his header gone in, history would be different imo.

I can’t remember which manager gave him a chance (b team and Hoddle I think)then when he scored plus ran the game promptly overlooked him.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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34 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

I can’t remember which manager gave him a chance (b team and Hoddle I think)then when he scored plus ran the game promptly overlooked him.

Hoddle in 98. In fairness he was past his best at that point but great hat trick vs R*ss*a B team.

Unfortunately missed out to Darren Anderton and Paul Merson which I think we can all accept because those two were absolutely world class.

Edited by CB Fry
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Stud mark of doom

Stud mark of doom

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16 hours ago, Toadhall Saint said:

I can’t remember which manager gave him a chance (b team and Hoddle I think)then when he scored plus ran the game promptly overlooked him.

Just for the record

a) you missed out the words “a hat-trick”

b) yes Hoddle - 98, although by then the England squad was extremely strong, and MLT should have been a regular in it for years before that, when he was overlooked in favour of some real dross. 

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JRM

JRM

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2 hours ago, beatlesaint said:

Maybe, just maybe, Ian Wright actually likes Lineker whereas he might think Le Tiss is a bit of a twat. But Matthew wouldn’t think of that I don’t suppose.

IMG-20230311-WA0003.thumb.jpg.cb1aa0a2fafb0b7baf0a24c303c7fe7a.jpg

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