Is Gareth Bale the best ever British player?

[benjii]

If not, who is?

[Mustapha Fag]

Is he any better than say Gascoigne at his peak?

Certainly nowhere near George Best, guess it depends on your age

Different position,  Bobby Moore?

[Toadhall Saint]

Kenny Dalgleish?

Edited 26 March, 2022 by Toadhall Saint

[mickn]

Bobby Charlton?

[egg]

Not for me, but the ability was there to have been. For whatever reason he's not played enough to consistently do what he's capable of. Amazing player all the same, and seeing him come out of nowhere and break through with us was good to see. 

George Best was amazing, and it's hard to imagine how good he'd have been if he'd been able to look after himself properly. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

John Charles?

[Winnersaint]

George Best.

[Lighthouse]

Depends what your criteria are I suppose. Bale is certainly up there. Aside from those already mentioned;

• Keegan had two Ballon D’Ors
• Shearer and Lineker were consistently prolific for club and country.
• Ashley Cole. Probably sounds silly but has there been a fullback in English football who’s come close to his achievements.
• Shilton. Englands most capped played.
• Owen and Gazza would certainly have been in the discussion, if they’d stayed fit.

[Uncle Albert]

Stanley Matthews?

[Midfield_General]

For me it’s a toss-up between Bobby Moore, George Best and Neil Shipperley. 

[Lighthouse]

5 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

For me it’s a toss-up between Bobby Moore, George Best and Neil Shipperley. 

I knew Neil had been arrested for it, I didn’t realise the other two were involved.

[HarvSFC]

For a brief period the hierarchy of best players in the world was the obvious Ronaldo and Messi category and then Bale was the player beneath them. The injuries and desire stopped him from having a prolonged period up there, so it depends whether a spell as one of the best players in the world is considered better than someone who has been consistently at the top of the game for the majority of their career.

[S-Clarke]

I'll always see him as someone who could have done so much more, but lost the appetite and hunger to get there.

I think he's been treated pretty poorly in Madrid, but he hasn't done himself many favours either and certainly has never endeared him to his fans.

A couple of years he was right up there, but he couldn't sustain it. The players who sustain it over years and years and years are the ones I'd class as the best ever.

Edited 26 March, 2022 by S-Clarke

[LiberalCommunist]

I'd go as far as to say, he's the best pro footballer Golfer.

But that's where I draw the line. 

[Nordic Saint]

George Best. But, you can take your pick from the British players listed here:

 Ballon d'Or - Wikipedia

[East Kent Saint]

Well No he isn't but can you compare across the decades ? Modern players are under more pressure these days plus the fitness requirements , no pre match 3 pints and catch a bus to the ground. Over training is now a feature of all sports , even golf after Tiger shook the tour up. Barty has shown the way to go to avoid the treadmill of ever increasing matches , just look at the old crocks Federer , Nadal , Murray , multi millionaires still trying to carry on .

[ecuk268]

3 hours ago, egg said:

Not for me, but the ability was there to have been. For whatever reason he's not played enough to consistently do what he's capable of. Amazing player all the same, and seeing him come out of nowhere and break through with us was good to see. 

George Best was amazing, and it's hard to imagine how good he'd have been if he'd been able to look after himself properly. 

He was also constantly booted up in the air and was given little protection by referees.

[Piran]

No, I don't think you can compare across the decades, but the best I have seen in the flesh, (the criterion I use personally) have been Best and Charlton. (Bobby)

[Maggie May]

Just now, Piran said:

No, I don't think you can compare across the decades, but the best I have seen in the flesh, (the criterion I use personally) have been Best and Charlton. (Bobby)

I used to think it was Best too before he put his penalty wide against Derby in the play-off semi. 

[CylonKing]

Paul Telfer and Jermaine Wright surely. 😉

Alan Ball maybe? Though I never saw him play live, Keegan must be right up there. Even better for the Saints link.

Edited 26 March, 2022 by CylonKing
Punctuation

[Matthew Le God]

3 hours ago, Midfield_General said:

For me it’s a toss-up between Bobby Moore, George Best and Neil Shipperley. 

He is in a class of his own...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-50839639

[Lord Duckhunter]

31 minutes ago, CylonKing said:

 

Alan Ball maybe? Though I never saw him play live, Keegan must be right up there. Even better for the Saints link.

Keegan was a good player, but he’s not “right up there”. 
 

In terms of players at a peak, you can’t look much further than Bestie or Jimmy Greaves in the 50+ years I’ve been watching. In terms of great players with great careers, Bobby Moore, Charlton and Dalglish take some beating, but Bally deserves an honourable mention for his performance in the ‘66 final. 
 

Personally, as good as he is, Bale (along with KK) is the next level down. IMO 

Edited 26 March, 2022 by Lord Duckhunter

[Chris cooper]

Gazza was elite !  Best defence splitting passer we’ve ever had ! 

[RedArmy]

I will never understand why Rooney is always overlooked in these conversations, I’m not saying he was the best but he deserves a mention. 
 

He’s won everything there is to win in club football. He would have won a European championship with England if he didn’t get injured. 
 

He’s the all time top scorer for Manchester United and England. 
 

I think people forget just how good he was when he was younger. 

[Miltonaggro]

George Best in terms of pure footballing ability, God given. As others have said Bale fits in the next tier, which includes Ball and Keegan, who were both machines, incredible craftsmen. When Gascoine and Le Tissier were both in their pomp I thought MLT the better player in terms of natural ability and flair, and still do. 

[AlexLaw76]

Despite his medal haul, I will say no (but he is right up there)

 

[Matthew Le God]

Edited 26 March, 2022 by Matthew Le God

[Lighthouse]

54 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

I will never understand why Rooney is always overlooked in these conversations, I’m not saying he was the best but he deserves a mention. 
 

He’s won everything there is to win in club football. He would have won a European championship with England if he didn’t get injured. 
 

He’s the all time top scorer for Manchester United and England. 
 

I think people forget just how good he was when he was younger. 

For Man United he was consistently a very good player, a solid 15-20 goal a season player, without ever really looking like THE guy. Across his domestic career he just never quite looked as good as Henry, Suarez, Torres, Ronaldo, Aguero, Bale, Drogba, Kane and a few others, on their day.

For England he burst onto the scene with two braces against Switzerland and Croatia at Euro 2004 but then what? Lineker, Shearer and Kane all have golden boots from major tournaments, Hurst has a hat trick in a WC final, Owen and Beckham have big goals in crucial games. Rooney just has a consistent stream of goals in qualifiers against Moldova, Estonia and Kazakhstan. He has one goal at a WC in his whole career, a tap in in a defeat to Uruguay in 2014.

His career just doesn't scream absolute greatness.

[Tank]

what about goalies? but Best was unbeatable.

[Tank]

was he even the best drummer [I mean player] in Saints? Le Tiss, Keegan, Shearer, Charlie George, Shilts, Ball ... even Channon

Edited 26 March, 2022 by Tank

[Midfield_General]

1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

He is in a class of his own...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-50839639

I remember watching him in an away match in Switzerland, at the Wankdorf. He spanked a couple in the first half, but then got pulled off. 

[StrangelyBrown]

18 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

For Man United he was consistently a very good player, a solid 15-20 goal a season player, without ever really looking like THE guy. Across his domestic career he just never quite looked as good as Henry, Suarez, Torres, Ronaldo, Aguero, Bale, Drogba, Kane and a few others, on their day.

For England he burst onto the scene with two braces against Switzerland and Croatia at Euro 2004 but then what? Lineker, Shearer and Kane all have golden boots from major tournaments, Hurst has a hat trick in a WC final, Owen and Beckham have big goals in crucial games. Rooney just has a consistent stream of goals in qualifiers against Moldova, Estonia and Kazakhstan. He has one goal at a WC in his whole career, a tap in in a defeat to Uruguay in 2014.

His career just doesn't scream absolute greatness.

He was a classic flat track bully - just look at who he got most of goals against. Had a heck of a lot of potential and while he was left to do what came to him naturally early in he career looked like he would be a world great, but unfortunately stifled by fergie.

[Turkish]

Had a period when he was at spurs where he was arguably the best player in the world at the time. Got his move to Real but never hit those heights again. Strong, powerful, quick, he had it all but never quite hit the heights he could have consistently. What a discovery by Redknapp, finding him and turning him from a left back into a magnificent player 

[The Cat]

Paul Scholes was an incredible player. Not flash or eye catching like some of the others mentioned but, along with Keane, the best player Man Utd had when they were winning everything.

Criminally misused by England which is probably why he often gets left out of these types of discussion. 

[cloggy saint]

Can't believe Alan Ball is being mentioned as a possible contender. Very good player but if it wasn't for the Saints connection he wouldn't get a look in.

[RedArmy]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

For Man United he was consistently a very good player, a solid 15-20 goal a season player, without ever really looking like THE guy. Across his domestic career he just never quite looked as good as Henry, Suarez, Torres, Ronaldo, Aguero, Bale, Drogba, Kane and a few others, on their day.

For England he burst onto the scene with two braces against Switzerland and Croatia at Euro 2004 but then what? Lineker, Shearer and Kane all have golden boots from major tournaments, Hurst has a hat trick in a WC final, Owen and Beckham have big goals in crucial games. Rooney just has a consistent stream of goals in qualifiers against Moldova, Estonia and Kazakhstan. He has one goal at a WC in his whole career, a tap in in a defeat to Uruguay in 2014.

His career just doesn't scream absolute greatness.

Messi has only ever had one good World Cup,  and Bolivia is the country he’s scored his most international goals against… it doesn’t make him shit does it? 
By his own admission Rooney didn’t turn up to a tournament fit and ready after 2004, but yes he definitely underperformed. 
 

Not “looking as good” as players like Henry, Suarez etc is irrelevant. This is a discussion about the best British players. You’ve only listed two and I’d argue that on his day Rooney was better than Kane is and it would be close with Bale. 

[Turkish]

58 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Paul Scholes was an incredible player. Not flash or eye catching like some of the others mentioned but, along with Keane, the best player Man Utd had when they were winning everything.

Criminally misused by England which is probably why he often gets left out of these types of discussion. 

Nods vigorously in agreement 

[Lighthouse]

17 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

Messi has only ever had one good World Cup,  and Bolivia is the country he’s scored his most international goals against… it doesn’t make him shit does it? 
By his own admission Rooney didn’t turn up to a tournament fit and ready after 2004, but yes he definitely underperformed. 
 

Not “looking as good” as players like Henry, Suarez etc is irrelevant. This is a discussion about the best British players. You’ve only listed two and I’d argue that on his day Rooney was better than Kane is and it would be close with Bale. 

The point about Henry, Suarez etc. is that Rooney was always ‘very good’ and never the best. I’m not denying Messi wasn’t at his best for Argentina but he is one of, if not the greatest players of all time.

 

Somebody summed up Rooney quite well on here once. He’s Stan Collymore, playing at his best for about 12 years, in a world without Shearer, Owen, Sherringham, Les Ferdinand, Andy Cole, Le Tiss and Fowler. 

[jimmysaint7]

4 hours ago, Chris cooper said:

Gazza was elite !  Best defence splitting passer we’ve ever had ! 

Other than mlt of course

[Streaky]

I would say Gascoigne had the most natural talent of them all but injuries and drinking meant he never reached the heights he should have. Bale for me yes. Big goals in champions league and big international tournaments. 

Whatever Madrid think of him I would say they have a history of turning on there own players so not strictly Bales fault for the fall out.

[RedArmy]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

 

Somebody summed up Rooney quite well on here once. He’s Stan Collymore, playing at his best for about 12 years, in a world without Shearer, Owen, Sherringham, Les Ferdinand, Andy Cole, Le Tiss and Fowler. 

 Stan Collymore?? He has got less career goals than Rooney has got assists. What are you going on about? 
 

 

 

 

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, RedArmy said:

 Stan Collymore?? He has got less career goals than Rooney has got assists. What are you going on about? 

You've deliberately ignored the, "playing at his best for 12 years," part. Rooney scored 208 goals in 16 top flight seasons, bang on 13 per season on average. Like I said, a solid 15-20 goal a season striker overall but not as prolific as the likes of Andy Cole.

[VectisSaint]

8 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

You've deliberately ignored the, "playing at his best for 12 years," part. Rooney scored 208 goals in 16 top flight seasons, bang on 13 per season on average. Like I said, a solid 15-20 goal a season striker overall but not as prolific as the likes of Andy Cole.

George Best and Stanley Matthews definitely better.

[East Kent Saint]

Shearer has to be up there , he is still top on scorers charts as we are shown on motd ! I liked him at Saints , able , like MLT to score from anywhere .

[Lee On Solent Saint]

The real question is was Le Tiss better than Gascoigne?

[kevdoh]

George best was before my time but seeing all the highlights you wonder who was more pissed, him or the defenders. Overrated in my opinion that didn't see him at the time. But probably same as anyone younger than me saying the original Ronaldo isn't the best player ever. To me he is. And would probably be the best in the world if he was about nowadays

 

[kevdoh]

5 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

The real question is was Le Tiss better than Gascoigne?

Yes, undoubtedly

[Dellman]

John Charles seems to be the forgotten man, he excelled in every position, in UK or abroad.

[Saint86]

For ability and physical prowess I would say bale had it all on paper, and his performances at the top level lead me to say he probably is the best Britain has ever produced... 

But he also seemed to have an attitude that he really wasn't fussed half the time - which highlights both just how good he was (that he could just then it on to such a level), and also frustrates because there is no doubt he should have taken over from Ronaldo and Messi for me... but apparently he couldn't be arsed and would rather have put his feet up in the sun playing golf and taking his frankly obscene wages 😅 But let's be honest, that's fair enough 👍.

Also he has had a lot of injuries in his later career. 

 

Edited 27 March, 2022 by Saint86

[CylonKing]

CB Fry?