Patrick Vieira

[Ex Lion Tamer]

50 minutes ago, Maggie May said:

It makes sense if Wilcox is overseeing this process.

If the expertise that Wilcox is bringing to the club is to appoint someone because he used to work with them then we're in even more trouble than I thought

[Baz Fl]

Think he was absolutely brilliant as a player, so big respect in that regard but Palace have been resurrected by Hodgson who seems to have made the same group of players miles better than Patrick could. Also the fact he’s been fired twice in a fairly short managerial career is disconcerting to say the least. 

[LegalEagle]

PV's win % ratio at Palace was less than Ralph's with us (29% v 34%). With a good chunk of the current squad (which will probably be the case) and in the Championship rather than the PL, you would hope that PV could get that ratio well over 40% and possibly nearer 50%. That would match Chris Wilder's record at Sheff Utd who took them back to the PL. I would rather have the PV and Chris Wilder types joining than Russell Martin or the Plymouth guy (both of those have a sniff of the Nathan Jones type). I know people turn their noses us at someone like Chris Wilder but he really wouldn't be a bad shout for us in the Championship. As would PV.

[Crab Lungs]

4 minutes ago, LegalEagle said:

PV's win % ratio at Palace was less than Ralph's with us (29% v 34%). With a good chunk of the current squad (which will probably be the case) and in the Championship rather than the PL, you would hope that PV could get that ratio well over 40% and possibly nearer 50%. That would match Chris Wilder's record at Sheff Utd who took them back to the PL. I would rather have the PV and Chris Wilder types joining than Russell Martin or the Plymouth guy (both of those have a sniff of the Nathan Jones type). I know people turn their noses us at someone like Chris Wilder but he really wouldn't be a bad shout for us in the Championship. As would PV.

Does that mean we get Alan Knill free of charge if we appoint Wilder? 

[woodsaint1]

Didn't Kaiser tells us all to lump on Jones being sacked later that day, only for it to be Marsch? Good authority is questionable

[SaintLondon]

I wouldn't be happy with this appointment, I don't think PV is the man for the job. When he was sacked by Palace there was talk of him and his coaching staff not running a tight ship and being late to training etc. From what we've heard re the goings on at Southampton we need someone who is going to be a task master whilst also being an arm around the shoulder guy for the youngsters. 

Also, PV doesn't have a great record in Europe and for those saying we should lower our expectations, we're not asking for Klopp, we'd just like someone who has got a better win percentage in the PL of 29%. Speaking for myself, I'm not asking for a massive name, I want someone that has experience in bringing together a group of lads and has a clear set of beliefs. (Don't make NJ jokes I beg). 

[Saint Matty 76]

I’m just so worried about what we could end up with after NJ that I’d bite your hand off for Vieira/Marsch right away.

[east-stand-nic]

Jury out for me on this one. I can see the positives as aforementioned, but also the aforementioned negatives.

However, he will be looking for a way back to make his name again, and I wonder if he is friends with Kompany and can get advice off him as and when needed.

Being really negative, I hope this isn't out owners trying to be clever and thinking, well Burnley did well with a top ex player, so maybe we should do the same, assuming it will be OK.

[hypochondriac]

I think I'd rather not a known quantity like Vieira who might be a success than some oddbod metrics driven choice from the lower leagues. At least we know what we are likely to get from Vieira. 

[S-Clarke]

I've been an advocate of Viera, and I do think he was harshly treated at Palace. As someone else pointed out, they had to reset their entire team when he first came in. Wholesale change throughout the spine and they were many picks to get relegated, but he steadied the ship and built a decent side.

This season they were ok, never really in danger, but they had a bunch of tough fixtures back to back and he took the kick because of that. I would have expected him to have also kept Palace up with the fixtures Woy came into.

He's big enough and strong enough to handle change, and that's the key thing for me. There will have to be wholesale change this summer and we need a character and a personality who is capable of dealing with that. 

Edited 15 May, 2023 by S-Clarke

[CB Fry]

3 hours ago, east-stand-nic said:

Being really negative, I hope this isn't out owners trying to be clever and thinking, well Burnley did well with a top ex player, so maybe we should do the same, assuming it will be OK.

I think that's a bit harsh. If anything Viera is actually a very "obvious" choice - big name, Ex player, Prem experience.

It's not an "over thinking/being clever" choice, it's a no brainer/populist choice really.

(It will, definitely be interpreted as "this season's Kompany", though, you're correct)

Personally feels like a good choice and I'd be happy with it.

Edited 15 May, 2023 by CB Fry

[Fan The Flames]

The only downside with PV is his managerial career to date has been very average.

[John B]

5 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

The only downside with PV is his managerial career to date has been very average.

But most managers are average

[CB Fry]

9 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

The only downside with PV is his managerial career to date has been very average.

Whoever we get is highly likely to be average.

[croydonsaint]

First of all I have no call on being right on this but I am surprised how PV is being accepted as a decent option. I know a lot of Palace fans and for sure if he had not lost the players he had certainly lost the fans  The big complaint was odd selections and very negative play ie. lack of goals.  
His track record is chequered and although his first season at Palace was decent he certainly lost his way this season. Look at how RH totally changed their results around and with the same players.

To me the NJ experiment was pure arrogance and my main thought was why risk that decision for the win of Ankersen making himself look good if the gamble came off  v setting the club back probably at best 2 or 3 seasons if it didn’t. It’s not hind sight here either  I felt at the time [along with many] that  it was madness and unfortunately that is how it turned out.

We can not take any more risks at this time as if we fail to get back up in 2 seasons it’s going to get tougher each season. We need to pay for a proven manager with experience of gaining promotions. No messing around

The manager recruitment is one of the very important decisions that need making. For the sake of the fans I hope they do not mess this one up again.

[Fan The Flames]

25 minutes ago, John B said:

But most managers are average

20 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Whoever we get is highly likely to be average.

I appreciate that this is market we are in, that we've always been in.

But PV has managed a couple of seasons in Europe and both times had a good first season followed by a poor season, where he gets the boot. We can get a better average manager, who has achieved a bit more.

[Miltonaggro]

5 hours ago, Crab Lungs said:

Does that mean we get Alan Knill free of charge if we appoint Wilder? 

No, Spurt Republic will negotiate the usual compensation package of £3m.

[SNSUN]

43 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Whoever we get is highly likely to be average.

Exactly. We're a Championship club elect fresh from relegation with a clusterfuck of a team, a load of players that want to leave or be sold, in some of the worst form of our history at a ground we can barely win at. 

Actually fair play to any manager that actually wants to take us on right now. Balls of steel.

[EBS1980]

New York City

Games 90 - 40 wins (44% win rate)

Nice

Games 89 - 35 wins (39% win rate)

Palace

Games 74 - 22 wins (29% win rate)

[Badger]

42 minutes ago, croydonsaint said:

First of all I have no call on being right on this but I am surprised how PV is being accepted as a decent option. I know a lot of Palace fans and for sure if he had not lost the players he had certainly lost the fans  The big complaint was odd selections and very negative play ie. lack of goals.  
His track record is chequered

PV comes across as a fairly sound bloke on some of the interviews I’ve seen but I think the acceptance is based largely on his record as a player.

(And perhaps his association with Man City, which as we know lulls the recruitment team at SFC to believing he must be quality …) 

[Badger]

11 hours ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

The trouble with the likes of Viera is with success they would be looking at moving upwards but I guess that's football. His record at Palace with some good players at his disposal is also a nagging worry. Look how quickly Roy Hodgson turned things round. Viera had obviously lost the players. But beggars can't be choosers so like I said previously, we are going to have to accept some flaws whoever comes.

Mate said to me in the 1990’sor early 2000’s that there are two types of manager for Saints; good ones we can’t keep hold of, or others that nobody else wants. 

[sledger]

6 hours ago, Wurzel said:

Maybe we are anticipating a fans backlash at the final game and were asking him how he got away with assaulting a pitch invader. 🤣

he deserves respect for that alone

[Saintscummer]

6 hours ago, Baz Fl said:

Think he was absolutely brilliant as a player, so big respect in that regard but Palace have been resurrected by Hodgson who seems to have made the same group of players miles better than Patrick could. Also the fact he’s been fired twice in a fairly short managerial career is disconcerting to say the least. 

Hasn’t the current Fulham manager been fired two or three times in the last 4/5 years ?

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, Saintscummer said:

Hasn’t the current Fulham manager been fired two or three times in the last 4/5 years ?

he was the hipsters favourite a few years ago, took Hull down, mugged off Watford, got given the boot at Everton. He's had 7 jobs and only lasted more than a 18 months in two of them which includes this one.

Edited 15 May, 2023 by Turkish

[Saintscummer]

48 minutes ago, Turkish said:

he was the hipsters favourite a few years ago, took Hull down, mugged off Watford, got given the boot at Everton. He's had 7 jobs and only lasted more than a 18 months in two of them which includes this one.

That’s my point. Some managers and coaches will take time. Not everyone will be an instant success. 
 

 

[Baz Fl]

Yes Hodgson has previously been fired but not followed up by a successful Patrick Vieira run with the same group. I can only go by the one time they’ve had the same squad in the same timeframe.

Edited 15 May, 2023 by Baz Fl

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

Mate said to me in the 1990’sor early 2000’s that there are two types of manager for Saints; good ones we can’t keep hold of, or others that nobody else wants. 

Agree. Alan Ball saved us from relegation after being hired from Exeter. I really liked Hoddle. Both we couldn't keep hold of.

And we can't compare PV to Koeman. Koeman had miles more gravitas when he joined us and was an inspired signing. So what that PV was a good player? He's also been a bang average manager. He couldn't get his team to score (sounds familiar?) and yet it took only a week for Woy to sort that team out.

Can't see PV masterminding a team rebuild nor any of the other names usually mentioned on the manager merry-go-round. There must be a new Graham Potter out there somewhere.

[Dellman]

20 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Agree. Alan Ball saved us from relegation after being hired from Exeter. I really liked Hoddle. Both we couldn't keep hold of.

And we can't compare PV to Koeman. Koeman had miles more gravitas when he joined us and was an inspired signing. So what that PV was a good player? He's also been a bang average manager. He couldn't get his team to score (sounds familiar?) and yet it took only a week for Woy to sort that team out.

Can't see PV masterminding a team rebuild nor any of the other names usually mentioned on the manager merry-go-round. There must be a new Graham Potter out there somewhere.

I would be very happy with Graham Potter, old or new version. 

[CB Fry]

23 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Agree. Alan Ball saved us from relegation after being hired from Exeter. I really liked Hoddle. Both we couldn't keep hold of.

And we can't compare PV to Koeman. Koeman had miles more gravitas when he joined us and was an inspired signing. So what that PV was a good player? He's also been a bang average manager. He couldn't get his team to score (sounds familiar?) and yet it took only a week for Woy to sort that team out.

Can't see PV masterminding a team rebuild nor any of the other names usually mentioned on the manager merry-go-round. There must be a new Graham Potter out there somewhere.

Viera did mastermind a team rebuild at Palace, in the Premier League. Huge amount of player churn that first season after Hodgson left. Took a new team to twelfth with plenty of plaudits.

We recruited Koeman as a Premier League club, we're not that anymore, so a silly expectation.

Anyway as a second tier club I think Viera is comparable to Koeman in standing/gravitas, especially when you think that Koeman's record before us was actually quite patchy (as it was after he left).

 

[Miltonaggro]

For the record I would be happy with Viera, and think we might be a good fit for him in a way that Palace weren't.  If he emulates any of our former 'top player' managers of the last 20 years (all of whom had skidmarks on their CVs prior to joining Saints) we will be competitive in the Championship very quickly.  Authority and the motivation of talented youngsters wont be a problem for PV.

[gordonToo]

Would be a positive appointment and a clear acknowlegement they've got it wrong so far. For that reason it's probably unlikely.

[Killers Knee]

Can’t be worse than the last 2 we’ve appointed, surely

[macca155]

Oh I hate these threads, I start off thinking 'oh no Viera...', read a bunch of informed comments, come round to 'yeah he may be OK', and start looking forward to him starting .

2 days later he's appointed by someone else, and I've wasted a whole bunch of emotional energy I'm fast running out of.

Of course he'd be a good appointment. He's a big name, needs success so the omens are good. Chances of getting him are probably slim.

I'm afraid we need to lower our expectations. Saints are not in a strong position.

[stevy777_x]

I would be very happy with Vieira! Plays proper football and was a success at Nice. Nice players were very disappointed when he left.

[Dellman]

14 minutes ago, stevy777_x said:

I would be very happy with Vieira! Plays proper football and was a success at Nice. Nice players were very disappointed when he left.

People want a big name, yes he's a big name as a player but he's been a big flop as a manager.

[CB Fry]

11 minutes ago, Dellman said:

People want a big name, yes he's a big name as a player but he's been a big flop as a manager.

You've already said he was "appalling" and now "big flop" but the rest of us can see what he's done and he is clearly neither of those things. All in all a reasonable record.

Fine if you don't want Viera but I think you are going to be hugely disappointed if those are your standards. We will be getting either someone who has failed somewhere else before or someone that hasn't achieved anything yet. So brace yourself.

Edited 15 May, 2023 by CB Fry

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

Probably a better option than Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney or Schumacher. 

[charliemiller]

I dont think Vieira would put up with the sloppiness and unprofessional behavior from the players that has become standard this year so he get my vote , we need a strong man manager this time !!

[gonzo]

On 15/05/2023 at 07:53, Fitzhugh Fella said:

The trouble with the likes of Viera is with success they would be looking at moving upwards but I guess that's football. His record at Palace with some good players at his disposal is also a nagging worry. Look how quickly Roy Hodgson turned things round. Viera had obviously lost the players. But beggars can't be choosers so like I said previously, we are going to have to accept some flaws whoever comes.

You need to look at Palace's run immediately prior to Vieira's sacking then immediately after, in terms of the teams they played.  I think the sacking was very harsh.

 

[ally_uk]

Get it done ✔️ 

[Fabrice29]

2 hours ago, charliemiller said:

I dont think Vieira would put up with the sloppiness and unprofessional behavior from the players that has become standard this year so he get my vote , we need a strong man manager this time !!

Edit: CBA actually so consider this deleted 😂

Edited 16 May, 2023 by Fabrice29

[S-Clarke]

8 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Except he did put up with it at Palace of course. 

Did he? Source?

[LuckyNumber7]

I don't really understand the positivity towards Vieira. Only thing he really has going for him is his name but you need far more than that to get promoted in a long gruelling Championship season. Everything else about his managerial career so far screams mediocrity at best. Not to mention his defensive style of football, which after the last few seasons the least I want is some entertainment. In our situation there's certainly no perfect candidate out there, but I think I'd rather have Schumacher tbh, at least he has actually achieved something and his ceiling is unknown. Vieira feels very meh to me and what does he really know about life below the PL?

[Fabrice29]

4 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Did he? Source?

Ah someone got it. 

My memory of reports out at the time he left was that there were quite a few dissatisfied with him and his coaching as well as fights at the training ground. I could be wrong because I didn’t take a complete interest in it and I also deleted it because I couldn’t be bothered to talk more about a manager whose record speaks for itself 

[ChokinAces]

Im a Palace fan. By all accounts the players and staff all loved Vieira. We played some great stuff last season but its not been the same this season. Not all his fault though.

We played the first half of the season with one midfielder and had two horrific run of games against top teams only, but a few bad results against Everton and Forest was a sign.

Ultimately though, he was sacked because the players hated Osian Roberts (his no2) and told the chairman that Krystian Wilson (head coach) was out of his depth and not good enough. Instead of changing them, he sacked Shaun Derry and the writing was on the wall. Since Roy has comeback, at least 5 players have improved immeasurably.

Hooe that helps.

[Dark Munster]

11 minutes ago, ChokinAces said:

Im a Palace fan. By all accounts the players and staff all loved Vieira. We played some great stuff last season but its not been the same this season. Not all his fault though.

We played the first half of the season with one midfielder and had two horrific run of games against top teams only, but a few bad results against Everton and Forest was a sign.

Ultimately though, he was sacked because the players hated Osian Roberts (his no2) and told the chairman that Krystian Wilson (head coach) was out of his depth and not good enough. Instead of changing them, he sacked Shaun Derry and the writing was on the wall. Since Roy has comeback, at least 5 players have improved immeasurably.

Hooe that helps.

Thanks. So forget about Vieira, it sounds like our club, led by Rasmus W. Ankersen, will see Osian Roberts and Krystian Wilson as a perfect fit for us.

[Saint in Paradise]

Several posters point out a win ration of only 29% in the PL. Hasn't it sunk in yet that Saints

won't be in the PL next season so surely that figure quoted is a tad irrelevant ?

Mind you will the ego of Rasmus actually let a name manager anywhere near Saints?