Russell Martin

[Lord Duckhunter]

14 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

About time someone on here talked some sense.

The only thing he made a mistake with was persist and dither with subs a little too long. 

It isn’t Russell Martins fault that he was bought a crocked striker and has been left with one of the most inconsistent finishers in the league.

Look at what their manager did to his team with his substitutions, and contrast that with what Lego did to us with his. Then look at the quality of our bench compared to theirs, and the complete and utter dogs breakfast the manager made of the second half is obvious. Regard of how many sitters we missed first half, we should never have got beat after going in 1-0 up. 

Edited April 20 by Lord Duckhunter

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

1 hour ago, sfc4prem said:

More and more I see some of the players as the issue, not the manager. Too many of them are naive and wasteful, prone to errors of judgement, mishits, scuffs and brain farts.

First time reading, I read that as "miss shits" which is probably equally appropriate!

Yes, the manager can't be blamed for the wastefulness in front of goal, though we didn't seem to be much of a threat after they equalised today. As a manager, he should be yelling them forward and to get their arses in gear and make up for their earlier misses.

[Fan The Flames]

Sad to say but I don't think Martin is the right man. Failed 'twice' to get us into the automatics. Time for a reset.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

2 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Sad to say but I don't think Martin is the right man. Failed 'twice' to get us into the automatics. Time for a reset.

Yep I agree. He is too full of senseless decisions that don't add up and now his mentor (Wilcox) has decamped maybe time for yet another reboot?

Brooks came here as a good player and looked promising initially but Martin has managed to turn him into an also ran.

SR haven't got much right so far, on or off the pitch. The Chris Nicholl tribute debacle might mean nothing to many on this forum but it shows the club do not have a steady hand on the tiller.

[AlexLaw76]

Games led and not won

Leicester - 5
Ipswich - 4
Leeds - 3
Southampton - 10

Sums up the season.

[Saint Gifford]

27 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Sad to say but I don't think Martin is the right man. Failed 'twice' to get us into the automatics. Time for a reset.

Not being the doom and gloom merchant here, but that was plainly obvious before the first ball was kicked this season.

Another experiment, we should have walked or certainly been top two all season. 
 

 

 

[Fan The Flames]

6 minutes ago, Saint Gifford said:

Not being the doom and gloom merchant here, but that was plainly obvious before the first ball was kicked this season.

Another experiment, we should have walked or certainly been top two all season. 

I don't know if it was, there was a chance he could have pushed on.

I think he failings for me is his inability to learn and evolve, he sticks with his system. He's a 'gut feel' rather than evidence based manager.

[Whitey Grandad]

25 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

I don't know if it was, there was a chance he could have pushed on.

I think he failings for me is his inability to learn and evolve, he sticks with his system. He's a 'gut feel' rather than evidence based manager.

He's still learning on the job. At least, I hope he's learning.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

1 hour ago, Fan The Flames said:

I don't know if it was, there was a chance he could have pushed on.

I think he failings for me is his inability to learn and evolve, he sticks with his system. He's a 'gut feel' rather than evidence based manager.

There are managers who stick to a system no matter what and wish to perfect it.  There are also managers that adapt and tinker.  Plenty of successful managers doing either.  Jason Wilcox brought Russell Martin in to play a very specific way and Martin has done that to a tee.  It is no guarantee of success.  I'm not upset when we have 65%+ possession and create better and more chances than the opposition and only a lack of quality finishing prevents us from winning.  When a game is too open and our defense is exposed to too many attacks in transition that is when the system fails but the onus is on the players to fix because the manager asks them to play a certain way and when they don't that is the consequence.  We all know and understand how we're supposed to play, and when we do it we look good and play well.  Aside from a a good spell under Ralph, it's been about 6 years since we could say that?

He is still a very young manager and still very much in the ascendancy.  I predict next season if we're a Championship club he will be linked with many jobs in the lower half of the Prem.  He has made every team he has been manager of better, and has done it playing very good football.  He will move onto better things long before we sack him, I've no idea what the bar is Saints fans think there is to be our manager but I think he's been a very good appointment.  Of course, ultimately if by summer 2025 we haven't gone up the effectiveness of his football with the quality of team we'll have will be in question, plus he now has to negotiate a new DoF coming in.  However, I would be very surprised to see a new DoF come in that has different ideas to the vision that is now being implemented.

[Long Shot]

9 hours ago, Lallana's Left Peg said:

There are managers who stick to a system no matter what and wish to perfect it.  There are also managers that adapt and tinker.  Plenty of successful managers doing either.  Jason Wilcox brought Russell Martin in to play a very specific way and Martin has done that to a tee.  It is no guarantee of success.  I'm not upset when we have 65%+ possession and create better and more chances than the opposition and only a lack of quality finishing prevents us from winning.  When a game is too open and our defense is exposed to too many attacks in transition that is when the system fails but the onus is on the players to fix because the manager asks them to play a certain way and when they don't that is the consequence.  We all know and understand how we're supposed to play, and when we do it we look good and play well.  Aside from a a good spell under Ralph, it's been about 6 years since we could say that?

He is still a very young manager and still very much in the ascendancy.  I predict next season if we're a Championship club he will be linked with many jobs in the lower half of the Prem.  He has made every team he has been manager of better, and has done it playing very good football.  He will move onto better things long before we sack him, I've no idea what the bar is Saints fans think there is to be our manager but I think he's been a very good appointment.  Of course, ultimately if by summer 2025 we haven't gone up the effectiveness of his football with the quality of team we'll have will be in question, plus he now has to negotiate a new DoF coming in.  However, I would be very surprised to see a new DoF come in that has different ideas to the vision that is now being implemented.

“He has made every team he has been manager off better”

Really? MK Dons? Swansea?

[LGTL]

10 hours ago, Lallana's Left Peg said:

There are managers who stick to a system no matter what and wish to perfect it.  There are also managers that adapt and tinker.  Plenty of successful managers doing either.  Jason Wilcox brought Russell Martin in to play a very specific way and Martin has done that to a tee.  It is no guarantee of success.  I'm not upset when we have 65%+ possession and create better and more chances than the opposition and only a lack of quality finishing prevents us from winning.  When a game is too open and our defense is exposed to too many attacks in transition that is when the system fails but the onus is on the players to fix because the manager asks them to play a certain way and when they don't that is the consequence.  We all know and understand how we're supposed to play, and when we do it we look good and play well.  Aside from a a good spell under Ralph, it's been about 6 years since we could say that?

He is still a very young manager and still very much in the ascendancy.  I predict next season if we're a Championship club he will be linked with many jobs in the lower half of the Prem.  He has made every team he has been manager of better, and has done it playing very good football.  He will move onto better things long before we sack him, I've no idea what the bar is Saints fans think there is to be our manager but I think he's been a very good appointment.  Of course, ultimately if by summer 2025 we haven't gone up the effectiveness of his football with the quality of team we'll have will be in question, plus he now has to negotiate a new DoF coming in.  However, I would be very surprised to see a new DoF come in that has different ideas to the vision that is now being implemented.

Get off this forum Russ and get ready for Tuesday. 

[CB Fry]

10 hours ago, Lallana's Left Peg said:

He has made every team he has been manager of better

Er, nope.

[Badger]

13 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Look at what their manager did to his team with his substitutions, and contrast that with what Lego did to us with his. Then look at the quality of our bench compared to theirs, and the complete and utter dogs breakfast the manager made of the second half is obvious. Regard of how many sitters we missed first half, we should never have got beat after going in 1-0 up. 

How many times this season could you have posted that ? 

[CB Fry]

Swansea

10th, 6th, 4th [MARTIN MAKES TEAM BETTER] 15th, 10th.

Breathtaking.

[Toussaint]

42 minutes ago, Long Shot said:

“He has made every team he has been manager off better”

Really? MK Dons? Swansea?

It’s debatable that he has made us “better” relative to the league we now find ourselves in. 

[Colinjb]

12 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Games led and not won

Leicester - 5
Ipswich - 4
Leeds - 3
Southampton - 10

Sums up the season.

It's the same weaknesses we have seen for years now. 

Cannot take our chances, cannot hold onto a lead.

[Badger]

12 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Games led and not won

Leicester - 5
Ipswich - 4
Leeds - 3
Southampton - 10

Sums up the season.

But we were brave every time and RM was proud of the guys … 

[Toussaint]

12 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

He's still learning on the job. At least, I hope he's learning.

That is, and was, the biggest issue when we took him on. You can’t blame him for wanting the opportunity, but you can hold our leaders to account for taking a higher risk option in what most feel was the best opportunity for a return to the prem. 

[adrian lord]

Martin’s failure to coach us to be defensively tight and effective has been our undoing far more than the profligacy in front of goal. Given that he was an international defender, that’s inexcusable. 
 

 

[SaintStinger]

33 minutes ago, adrian lord said:

Given that he was an international defender

Being an international doesn't automatically make you a good player. Che Adams is an international striker for eg.

 

[captainchris]

13 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Games led and not won

Leicester - 5
Ipswich - 4
Leeds - 3
Southampton - 10

Sums up the season.

This is the most important stat of them all. RM’s weakness is Managing games combined with poor defensive organisation. (Oh and odd personnel choices) This has been a feature of the season and hasn’t changed at all throughout his time here. 
RM is a coach, however it appears that he is struggling to ‘Manage’ at our level.

 

[Dusic]

14 hours ago, Saint Gifford said:

Another experiment, we should have walked or certainly been top two all season. 

Seeing as Leicester and Leeds were better than us last season (and Leicester for about 5 years before that too, plus not complying with FFP) why should we certainly have been ahead of them?

We have been in the mix for promotion for the whole season, and will likely end up with a points tally that would ordinarily get automatic promotion. I think at the start of the season 99% would have taken that outcome for this experiment (whatever that means!)

Edited April 21 by Dusic

[Whitey Grandad]

4 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Seeing as Leicester and Leeds were better than us last season (and Leicester for about 5 years before that too, plus not complying with FFP) why should we certainly have been ahead of them?

We have been in the mix for promotion for the whole season, and will likely end up with a points tally that would ordinarily get automatic promotion. I think at the start of the season 99% would have taken that outcome for this experiment (whatever that means!)

Include me out of that 99%

[trousers]

14 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Games led and not won

Leicester - 5
Ipswich - 4
Leeds - 3
Southampton - 10

Sums up the season.

 

18 minutes ago, captainchris said:

This is the most important stat of them all. RM’s weakness is Managing games combined with poor defensive organisation. (Oh and odd personnel choices) This has been a feature of the season and hasn’t changed at all throughout his time here. 
RM is a coach, however it appears that he is struggling to ‘Manage’ at our level.

 

To be fair, it was also a feature of Ralph's tenure too... Indeed, I think we achieved a Premier League record in points lost from a winning position in one season (?)

There seems to be an underlying mental weakness running through the fabric of the club which sticks around even when we change the manager and half the players. 

Edited April 21 by trousers

[Wade Garrett]

Martin won’t change the way we play for the same reasons that Kompany won’t at Burnley.

It’s all about them and their style of play.  ‘Look at the beautiful way we play the game.  Imagine if I do that for your team Mr Chairman but with better players’.

It worked for Martin going from MK Dons to Swansea to Saints and will probably get him his next move to the next sucker in line.

[Toussaint]

18 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Include me out of that 99%

And me, and most, if not all, of the supporters I know.

[S-Clarke]

31 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Seeing as Leicester and Leeds were better than us last season (and Leicester for about 5 years before that too, plus not complying with FFP) why should we certainly have been ahead of them?

We have been in the mix for promotion for the whole season, and will likely end up with a points tally that would ordinarily get automatic promotion. I think at the start of the season 99% would have taken that outcome for this experiment (whatever that means!)

I've enjoyed parts of this season, but there's something nagging in me that isn't filling me with much excitement. Promotion efforts should be exciting, lots of comfortable wins and the such - but that's not really felt like the case for us, we're constantly letting everyone we play back into the games - recurring theme, so it's been hard to enjoy a lot of games this year.

Our 26 unbeaten run was decent for sure, but it was littered with some crappy draws - and not many comfortable wins. I think our 'relaxed, sit back and enjoy' moments come over Christmas with Swansea, Blackburn etc - but most of the season has been a bit of a chore watching us try and chug outa result, not sure if I'm the only one feeling that.

We may look back next year and wish we still had this for sure, but I think it's fair to have expected a little bit more dominance in terms of results/score lines with the players we have this year. We'll never, ever, ever have a better chance.

Edited April 21 by S-Clarke

[captainchris]

23 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Seeing as Leicester and Leeds were better than us last season (and Leicester for about 5 years before that too, plus not complying with FFP) why should we certainly have been ahead of them?

We have been in the mix for promotion for the whole season, and will likely end up with a points tally that would ordinarily get automatic promotion. I think at the start of the season 99% would have taken that outcome for this experiment (whatever that means!)

Interesting and how do Ipswich comply with that recent historical ‘reasoning’

As for the 99% …….. You might be slightly out on that one too.

 

[John B]

14 hours ago, Saint Gifford said:

Not being the doom and gloom merchant here, but that was plainly obvious before the first ball was kicked this season.

Another experiment, we should have walked or certainly been top two all season. 
 

 

 

I am sorry but why should we have walked it as we had a new team with new tactics a below average goalkeeper and no real consistent top class creative player

[Lord Duckhunter]

7 minutes ago, John B said:

I am sorry but why should we have walked it as we had a new team with new tactics a below average goalkeeper and no real consistent top class creative player

“New tactics” which were imposed by the manager, a GK the manager claims he’d sign if he wasn’t here,  and a top class creative player since Jan (Brookes) who our manager has somehow made worse since dropping down a league. Dyche would have got us out of this league, no fucking bother.  

[Lighthouse]

27 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

“New tactics” which were imposed by the manager, a GK the manager claims he’d sign if he wasn’t here,  and a top class creative player since Jan (Brookes) who our manager has somehow made worse since dropping down a league. Dyche would have got us out of this league, no fucking bother.  

Dyche! Do me a favour, sure we’d probably concede a few less but he wouldn’t be able to do anything about the worst goalkeeper ever in football, who might as well not even have arms. His teams would also create far fewer chances, which our forwards need about five of just to trouble the keeper once.

With Dyche here we’d just be seeing a lot more 0-0, 1-1 and 1-0 either way games.

[coalman]

Some of the attacking play I've seen this season has been up with the best Saints have ever produced in my lifetime. I look forward to games rather than dreading them last season.

That being said, we offer up too many gilt edged chances. So unless we convert our chances we run the risk of being pegged back. We're not clinical at either end of the pitch. This is partly down to our players and partly the space we offer attacking teams. This is something Martin can learn.

On top of that we don't have a plan to tighten up and hold into leads. This is something Martin needs to learn.

Given the improvement in play from last season I'm happy for Martin to continue as long as he's addressing that.

Changing manager every season (or worse) is a soul destroying experience. We won't develop as a club without some stability. I don't see us getting a manager who is the finished article. For every Pochettino or Koeman there are multiple Hughes, Jones and Selles. Martin ticks a lots of the boxes we want. We should stick with him.

[S-Clarke]

11 minutes ago, coalman said:

Some of the attacking play I've seen this season has been up with the best Saints have ever produced in my lifetime. I look forward to games rather than dreading them last season.

That being said, we offer up too many gilt edged chances. So unless we convert our chances we run the risk of being pegged back. We're not clinical at either end of the pitch. This is partly down to our players and partly the space we offer attacking teams. This is something Martin can learn.

On top of that we don't have a plan to tighten up and hold into leads. This is something Martin needs to learn.

Given the improvement in play from last season I'm happy for Martin to continue as long as he's addressing that.

Changing manager every season (or worse) is a soul destroying experience. We won't develop as a club without some stability. I don't see us getting a manager who is the finished article. For every Pochettino or Koeman there are multiple Hughes, Jones and Selles. Martin ticks a lots of the boxes we want. We should stick with him.

Those bits I've highlighted are the key takeaways for me - what we are seeing playing out here (in terms of chances gifted/goals conceded) is identical to what played out at Swansea and MK Don's - he hasn't learnt.

I've read some of his comments from yesterday calling them nonsense goals to concede, we need to cut that out etc - absolutley agree with him, but he said exactly the same about the Bristol City goals, the Huddersfield goals, the Ipswich goals etc - it's like groundhog day, no one is learning anything in my eyes and I don't think it'll ever change.

I get what you mean about stability 100%, but my fear is that Martin has consistently shown that he cannot coach a team to defend at multiple clubs. His teams always gift up opportunities and opponents know that. If we fail this year the quality of our squad next year will be stark compared to this, so we'll score less goals and probably concede around the same/maybe more - which will equate to a Swansea City and MK Dons finish of mid-table if we're not careful.

Edited April 21 by S-Clarke

[Lord Duckhunter]

38 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Dyche! Do me a favour, sure we’d probably concede a few less but he wouldn’t be able to do anything about the worst goalkeeper ever in football, who might as well not even have arms. His teams would also create far fewer chances, which our forwards need about five of just to trouble the keeper once.

With Dyche here we’d just be seeing a lot more 0-0, 1-1 and 1-0 either way games.

This is the most ridiculous argument. That the players would be exactly the same if there was a different manager. What if Dyche didn’t want Baz, wanted another keeper. What if he proposed another striker instead of Stewart. Maybe he might have got more out of Che Adams & Adam Armstrong  by playing more direct & a 4-4-2. What if he coached players, played to their strengths and took the revolutionary step of playing full backs at full back every week.To say nobody can do better than Martin is pure nonsense, nothing in his career so far has indicated he’s anything other than bang average. 
 

Dyche has been there & done it, unlike Martin who hasn’t. 

[saintant]

2 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I've enjoyed parts of this season, but there's something nagging in me that isn't filling me with much excitement. Promotion efforts should be exciting, lots of comfortable wins and the such - but that's not really felt like the case for us, we're constantly letting everyone we play back into the games - recurring theme, so it's been hard to enjoy a lot of games this year.

Our 26 unbeaten run was decent for sure, but it was littered with some crappy draws - and not many comfortable wins. I think our 'relaxed, sit back and enjoy' moments come over Christmas with Swansea, Blackburn etc - but most of the season has been a bit of a chore watching us try and chug outa result, not sure if I'm the only one feeling that.

We may look back next year and wish we still had this for sure, but I think it's fair to have expected a little bit more dominance in terms of results/score lines with the players we have this year. We'll never, ever, ever have a better chance.

I agree with you in part that we'll never get a better chance - only in part because this will be a record points season. Out points tally come the end of the season would have got us promoted in most other years so that has gone against us.

[bugenhagen]

2 hours ago, trousers said:

 

To be fair, it was also a feature of Ralph's tenure too... Indeed, I think we achieved a Premier League record in points lost from a winning position in one season (?)

There seems to be an underlying mental weakness running through the fabric of the club which sticks around even when we change the manager and half the players. 

Agere, and I think it develops by losing, and is only cured by winning in a controlled manner.

This season has perhaps improved on it a little bit, but not enough. 

I am however surprised to see that so many thought we would bounce straight back up again last summer… I was not a believer then, and I am still not a believer now. I do hope, but have no faith. Kind of like the players, in a way 😃

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, saintant said:

I agree with you in part that we'll never get a better chance - only in part because this will be a record points season. Out points tally come the end of the season would have got us promoted in most other years so that has gone against us.

It definitely is a freak season for sure, at the same stage last year Sheff U were promoted on 84 points and Luton were on 78. I don't think the points tallies will be anywhere near as high next year, but with the players we had this year (KWP/THB/Downes - absolute PL level players) we should have got closer to the teams setting the pace imo, we've always been stuck on the periphery and look in from a 'what could have been' angle - and that's what's frustrated me more than anything.

[Turkish]

17 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Games led and not won

Leicester - 5
Ipswich - 4
Leeds - 3
Southampton - 10

Sums up the season.

To me that shows his game management is poor. He’s doesnt know how to close a game out. Most subs are like for like, sometimes you’ve got to just shut up shop and take one goal win, we never do that

Edited April 21 by Turkish

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

This is the most ridiculous argument. That the players would be exactly the same if there was a different manager. What if Dyche didn’t want Baz, wanted another keeper. What if he proposed another striker instead of Stewart. Maybe he might have got more out of Che Adams & Adam Armstrong  by playing more direct & a 4-4-2. What if he coached players, played to their strengths and took the revolutionary step of playing full backs at full back every week.To say nobody can do better than Martin is pure nonsense, nothing in his career so far has indicated he’s anything other than bang average. 
 

Dyche has been there & done it, unlike Martin who hasn’t. 

More out of AA and Armstrong? That’s as good as they are, why can nobody accept this? You can’t ‘coach them to their strengths’, that’s just how good they are and have been under Ralph, Jones, Selles and now Martin.

 

Dyche has done it before, as have Curbishley, Redknapp, Burley and Hughes. That doesn’t mean they would automatically do a job here, for us, today. Dyche has won one game (1-0 at home to Burnley) since December 16th.

[Lord Duckhunter]

15 minutes ago, Turkish said:

To me that shows his game management is poor. He’s spent know how to close a game out. Most subs are like for like, sometimes you’ve got to just shut up shop and take one goal win, we never do that

How many wins have we had that were undeserved. Fucking zero I reckon. Other sides find a way to win games, we find a way to fucking lose them. I bet the 3 teams that finish above us have come away from games thinking “we didn’t really deserve those 3 points”. Not us, even last minute winners or equalisers are just getting us a point or 2 that we were in danger of chucking away. 

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

How many wins have we had that were undeserved. Fucking zero I reckon. Other sides find a way to win games, we find a way to fucking lose them. I bet the 3 teams that finish above us have come away from games thinking “we didn’t really deserve those 3 points”. Not us, even last minute winners or equalisers are just getting us a point or 2 that we were in danger of chucking away. 

Yep I can think of loads of games we should have won but didn’t. Can’t think of any we won where we shouldn’t 

Edited April 21 by Turkish

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

More out of AA and Armstrong? That’s as good as they are, why can nobody accept this? You can’t ‘coach them to their strengths’, that’s just how good they are and have been under Ralph, Jones, Selles and now Martin.

We’re in the championship FFS. If they were playing for Ipswich I bet they’d be banging them in more regularly . Adam Armstrong wide is ridiculous, as is playing him down the middle on his own. He’s scored a lot, he’d get loads more if we got it in the mixer & played him in a 2 up top. He’s not getting the best out of the players available. Our wide men get worse the more they play for him, & Charles looks a shadow of the player we first saw.  

[Midfield_General]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

How many wins have we had that were undeserved. Fucking zero I reckon. Other sides find a way to win games, we find a way to fucking lose them. I bet the 3 teams that finish above us have come away from games thinking “we didn’t really deserve those 3 points”. Not us, even last minute winners or equalisers are just getting us a point or 2 that we were in danger of chucking away. 

It's a tangential side point, and not a criticism in any way, but I can't help but read all your posts in the voice of Roger Mellie, The Man On The Telly. 

Edited April 21 by Midfield_General

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Martin said that there could be games where we'd get undone. This is because, as he's also said often enough, that there's no plan B. Everything is within the plan he thinks is the best to get results, if not in every game, then across the season.

The quality of our players, relative to this level, has limited the worst games to September. Tony Mowbray took Martin's philosophy apart. With that quality, we've seen some excellent football when it's clicked.

In most games, we get the majority of possession. We often create more chances than opponents. As the season has gone on, I think we've created clearer chances, rather than ones where our opponents have reset, to make them more difficult. We're a lot more confident passing it across the back too. It's fair to look at our finishing, as not being clinical.

However the system, as mentioned by at least one player, needs a lot of rethinking on how they play the game. Natural instincts, positioning and momentum have to be suppressed to support that control of games.

When the attacking clicks, it's really good. But it relies, not only doing it for 90 minutes across starters and subs, but that all of the rest of it cicks too.

And that's where it hasn't worked to anyone, including Martin's satisfaction. We're left having to outscore teams by a margin, in the spell where we're good. Because the system, with the personnel we are telling to play it, means we're going to give up chances.

Martin does look to limit some of it, often forcing those chances down gaps on the flank at more difficult angles.

But Better teams and the focus on maintaining the system throughout the match, regardless of game management has resulted in the figures AlexLaw put up. It sums up our season, and this approach, perfectly. We take a lead with lots of possession. We fail to extend the lead sufficiently, and are unable to manage a game to stop losing points.

We have a midfield that fails without Downes in it. He's the engine and best all rounder by a mile. Charles is defensive only, and learning, so doesn't offer enough in creating an attacking tempo/passes. Aribo is strong and technically decent. But DM isn't his role, and isn't the best at those long passing moves. Rothwell isn't a midfielder, and simply doesn't suit this system. Smallbone offers a bit of everything, but is neither our best AM or DM, offering lots of links but not stamping authority on games. Stu is technically the best, but is not DM minded.

The fullbacks, we push up to support the midfield seem unable to prevent giving away chances. We lose the midfield and sticking to the same plan, struggle to cope. Sticking random players into situations they aren't suited for, just makes it worse.

It's not that these are poor players. They, like others in the side, just aren't capable of being all things to a tactic that only works with very versatile players.

SR have failed all our managers in key areas. Depending on Charles to become an instand midfield genius, not providing a direct threat on the right, and not getting in a functional striker.

But the tactic employed, and lack of adjusting it to our limitations, in game, is all on the manager. The post match comments are identical over months. So, it can't be a surprise when it keeps happening.

No reason why we can't win the playoffs. We've won plenty of games, with all of the above issues. But Martin will be only too well aware of his prospects, should we not go up.

Edited April 21 by Holmes_and_Watson
autocarrot

[Pamplemousse]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

Yep I can think of loads of games we should have won but didn’t. Can’t think of any we won where we shouldn’t 

The Hull away game springs to mind, a draw would have been a fair outcome. The QPR game as well (both home and away) we weren't at our best in either game.

[Badger]

3 hours ago, Pamplemousse said:

The Hull away game springs to mind, a draw would have been a fair outcome. The QPR game as well (both home and away) we weren't at our best in either game.

Disagree about Hull. Although perhaps fortunate to squeeze the winner in before the final whistle went, the last 15 minutes or so had been one way and Saints deserved the win. 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

In terms of excitement at a football match, I'm struggling to think of another season where there been so many games that have caused real tension and excitement. Last minute winners (Watford a week ago), goals galore (Huddersfield, Blackburn), heart in mouth moments as the team tries to bring the ball out from defence...and RM has got to take a lot of credit for creating that environment.

He even seems to have learned that Jack S. is not the answer. What he hasn't got right is reacting to change in tactics from the opposition and managing the team to kill off games when we're so much on top. And he's got six games to get it right!

[DT]

Personally if things don't work out I'd love us to finally lure David Moyes to get back to basics and get us up next season. Just not sure that we have the personnel - or ever will - for Russ' style. As it is we need a decent keeper and a striker who isn't shit, as well as replacements for all of those players who are clearly off. A tall order.

[badgerx16]

On 21/04/2024 at 08:57, adrian lord said:

Martin’s failure to coach us to be defensively tight and effective has been our undoing far more than the profligacy in front of goal. Given that he was an international defender, that’s inexcusable. 
 

 

80 games at MK Dons, 105 goals conceded,

99 games at Swansea, 143 conceded,

48 games at Southampton, 63 conceded.

He cannot coach defences.

[sfc4prem]

30 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

80 games at MK Dons, 105 goals conceded,

99 games at Swansea, 143 conceded,

48 games at Southampton, 63 conceded.

He cannot coach defences.

That is a very clear summary of his record, and has actually worried me... I've been pretty positive this year but that has opened my eyes a bit.