Russell Martin

[danjosaint]

But we all new this from the outset, he should've been nowhere near being recruited by sfc 

[Badger]

1 hour ago, DT said:

Personally if things don't work out I'd love us to finally lure David Moyes to get back to basics and get us up next season. Just not sure that we have the personnel - or ever will - for Russ' style. As it is we need a decent keeper and a striker who isn't shit, as well as replacements for all of those players who are clearly off. A tall order.

He's carried that scar tissue for 23 years ..... surprised his career ever recovered from not taking the job when offered to him

 

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, DT said:

Personally if things don't work out I'd love us to finally lure David Moyes to get back to basics and get us up next season. Just not sure that we have the personnel - or ever will - for Russ' style. As it is we need a decent keeper and a striker who isn't shit, as well as replacements for all of those players who are clearly off. A tall order.

That’s what has often confused me. I never understood the long term strategy of setting out to be a pound - shop City, it’s a contradiction in terms. Just say we get promoted, what then? Apply the City style resourced with the Southampton budget? Disastrous.
 

What credentials did Wilcox ever have to be our DoF, or the inexperienced Martin, with a questionable managerial track record, to be the man to take us up this season, which is probably the best opportunity we could have for a long time?
 

The whole thing stinks of a Rasmus vanity project. Dragan needs kick some arses.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, DT said:

Personally if things don't work out I'd love us to finally lure David Moyes to get back to basics and get us up next season. Just not sure that we have the personnel - or ever will - for Russ' style. As it is we need a decent keeper and a striker who isn't shit, as well as replacements for all of those players who are clearly off. A tall order.

We could do a lot worse. I'm pretty sure we'd get promoted under Moyes. However he's not cool or have a hipsters philosophy. I'd probably go for Steve Cooper but i dont reckon they'll sack him.

[Dman]

15 hours ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

In terms of excitement at a football match, I'm struggling to think of another season where there been so many games that have caused real tension and excitement. Last minute winners (Watford a week ago), goals galore (Huddersfield, Blackburn), heart in mouth moments as the team tries to bring the ball out from defence...and RM has got to take a lot of credit for creating that environment.

He even seems to have learned that Jack S. is not the answer. What he hasn't got right is reacting to change in tactics from the opposition and managing the team to kill off games when we're so much on top. And he's got six games to get it right!

Blackburn (h) aside, all of the other games you've listed have been 'exciting' due to imcompentance. 

The sign of a good manager / team is winning those games comfortably - not 3-2 / 4-3 etc. relying on a last minute winner. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

80 games at MK Dons, 105 goals conceded,

99 games at Swansea, 143 conceded,

48 games at Southampton, 63 conceded.

He cannot coach defences.

What about the possession stats though? 

[captainchris]

If we were to make a change Danny Rohl has done an amazing job at Wednesday and also we were playing very well under his coaching when he was with us.  Very experienced at top level in Germany and here and with something still to prove. Not sure if Moyes is still ambitious enough now and not really very progressive in nature but hey just throwing it out there. RM might yet sort his head out and our defence which would be preferable.

[badgerx16]

46 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What about the possession stats though? 

20/21 season at MK Dons he finished 13th, but across Europe only Man City and Barcelona had higher possession percentage.

[Greenridge]

4 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

20/21 season at MK Dons he finished 13th, but across Europe only Man City and Barcelona had higher possession percentage.

OK, so he's not the best manager in Europe like Nathan, but third's not to be sniffed at.

[Toussaint]

43 minutes ago, captainchris said:

If we were to make a change Danny Rohl has done an amazing job at Wednesday and also we were playing very well under his coaching when he was with us.  Very experienced at top level in Germany and here and with something still to prove. Not sure if Moyes is still ambitious enough now and not really very progressive in nature but hey just throwing it out there. RM might yet sort his head out and our defence which would be preferable.

I thought about that also , Ralph / Saints weren’t as effective after his departure 

[Dman]

Just now, Toussaint said:

I thought about that also , Ralph / Saints weren’t as effective after his departure 

Surely not this myth again. 

[Toussaint]

Just now, Dman said:

Surely not this myth again. 

Was it? That is my recollection ? Ralph had his lockdown purple patch but other than that there were some very sketchy times 

[CB Fry]

2 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Was it? That is my recollection ? Ralph had his lockdown purple patch but other than that there were some very sketchy times 

Myth. We had our best season under Ralph when he was already gone.

 

[Toussaint]

Just now, CB Fry said:

Myth. We had our best season under Ralph when he was already gone.

 

Oh well, myth then. He seems to have done well at Sheffield Wednesday 

[Dman]

1 hour ago, Toussaint said:

Oh well, myth then. He seems to have done well at Sheffield Wednesday 

Yeah, I've no doubt hes a good coach and looks a good manager. I'd have taken him here and still would (although I think something may have gone on behind the scenes which would prevent that - @Turkish might know more...). 

But Yes, its a myth we went on a instant downward spiral after he left. 

[Turkish]

10 minutes ago, Dman said:

Yeah, I've no doubt hes a good coach and looks a good manager. I'd have taken him here and still would (although I think something may have gone on behind the scenes which would prevent that - @Turkish might know more...). 

But Yes, it’s a myth we went on an instant downward spiral after he left. 

 You betcha I do 😇😇😇

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

3 hours ago, Dman said:

Blackburn (h) aside, all of the other games you've listed have been 'exciting' due to imcompentance. 

The sign of a good manager / team is winning those games comfortably - not 3-2 / 4-3 etc. relying on a last minute winner. 

I agree. I deliberately chose the word exciting rather than competent. To be fair to RM, he has got us playing some neat passing football, but a) he hasn't got a plan when teams come on to us and b) he isn't yet tactically astute enough to react to changes from the opposition. In some ways, despite the incompetence up front and lack of a goalkeeper who saves shots, it's our midfield that is getting exposed. One poster mentioned we lost the plot when Romeu went and nowadays when Downes isn't playing and that's what he needs to sort out.

Personally reckon Charles could develop in to a competent CDM but there's something RM doesn't like about him. Maybe it's just his inexperience.

[gammon cheeks]

6 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

80 games at MK Dons, 105 goals conceded,

99 games at Swansea, 143 conceded,

48 games at Southampton, 63 conceded.

He cannot coach defences.

That is scary stats to be honest!  Dont think it will ever change under Martin .

[verlaine1979]

I do find it odd that the team completely falls apart without Downes, and yet it seemed far from certain at the time that he wanted to join us. What was the plan if he'd turned us down?

[ally_uk]

If we don't go up I'd go for Cooper 

[Badger]

2 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

I do find it odd that the team completely falls apart without Downes, and yet it seemed far from certain at the time that he wanted to join us. What was the plan if he'd turned us down?

Plan a) convert Jack Stephens.

Plan b) mid-table.

[CB Fry]

38 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

I do find it odd that the team completely falls apart without Downes, and yet it seemed far from certain at the time that he wanted to join us. What was the plan if he'd turned us down?

Well it was certain, he wasn't linked with anyone else.

All that happened is he ate some dodgy chicken, got the shits and then the assorted dins on here decided we'd been gazumped, he wasn't coming and etc etc etc.

[Dark Munster]

48 minutes ago, ally_uk said:

If we don't go up I'd go for Cooper 

A decent, solid, experienced, non hipster, non good looking manager? The polar opposite of what the legend in his own mind Rasmus W. Ankersen wants. 

[Challenger]

So convinced this bloke will not promote this team,I will personally present him with a bunch of flowers, naked ,in the center circle prior to our first game back in the Prem if wrong .

 

[Toussaint]

37 minutes ago, Challenger said:

So convinced this bloke will not promote this team,I will personally present him with a bunch of flowers, naked ,in the center circle prior to our first game back in the Prem if wrong .

 

I don’t know if that’s something to look forward to or not?

[Wade Garrett]

Cooper would be a superb appointment.  Twice the manager the idiot is.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, ally_uk said:

If we don't go up I'd go for Cooper 

managed Swansea before Rusty did, here are their records.

Swansea finished 6th in his first season 4th in his second season losing in the play offs. Rusty managed 15th and 10th. 

Cooper in 3 years managing in the championship has never finished outside the play offs. 

 

	Steve Cooper	Wales	13 June 2019	21 July 2021	2 years, 38 days	105	47	28	30	44.76		[51]
	Russell Martin	Scotland	1 August 2021	21 June 2023	1 year, 324 days	99	36	26	37	36.36

Edited April 22 by Turkish

[The Kraken]

Steve Cooper would be a brilliant appointment. Ergo, it won’t happen.

[Roo1976]

2 hours ago, ally_uk said:

If we don't go up I'd go for Cooper 

if we dont id like Potter.....................

[LGTL]

Cooper has been my first choice since we got rid of Ralph. Absolutely light years ahead of the current din. 

[Saint NL]

My heart goes out to Russel Martin whose dog ran away today.

 

He lost the lead 

[Dusic]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

managed Swansea before Rusty did, here are their records.

Swansea finished 6th in his first season 4th in his second season losing in the play offs. Rusty managed 15th and 10th. 

Cooper in 3 years managing in the championship has never finished outside the play offs. 

 

	Steve Cooper	Wales	13 June 2019	21 July 2021	2 years, 38 days	105	47	28	30	44.76		[51]
	Russell Martin	Scotland	1 August 2021	21 June 2023	1 year, 324 days	99	36	26	37	36.36

With the notable caveat that Martin managed them during the period where their parachute payments were cut and then ended.

Cooper has had a mixed bag of a managerial career so far, comes across a bit dour to me. Obviously did well to get Forest up but they lacked any real style of play in the PL and he chopped and changed every week (albeit not helped by having a squad of 60).

One thing for sure, if they did sack RM after delivering pretty much 2pts/game then the next guy would need to make a hell of a start.

Personally think the last thing we need is more change (plus the costs that entails) and certainly no guarentee anyone else would come in and do better. Change again to a third manager and new style of play in November if we are in the playoff positions and on 1.7pts/game?!

Edited April 22 by Dusic

[Turkish]

21 minutes ago, Dusic said:

With the notable caveat that Martin managed them during the period where their parachute payments were cut and then ended.

Cooper has had a mixed bag of a managerial career so far, comes across a bit dour to me. Obviously did well to get Forest up but they lacked any real style of play in the PL and he chopped and changed every week (albeit not helped by having a squad of 60).

One thing for sure, if they did sack RM after delivering pretty much 2pts/game then the next guy would need to make a hell of a start.

Personally think the last thing we need is more change (plus the costs that entails) and certainly no guarentee anyone else would come in and do better. Change again to a third manager and new style of play in November if we are in the playoff positions and on 1.7pts/game?!

Mixed bag?

Won the World Cup with England u17s, runners up in the euros 

never finished outside the play offs in 3 championship seasons. In one of these he took over a team bottom to finishing 6th and winning the play offs 

Then kept Forest up in his first season in the premier league. Sacked with them 17th which is exactly the same position they are now 

of that’s a mixed bag I’m not sure what sort of manager you expect us to get

[Lee On Solent Saint]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Mixed bag?

Won the World Cup with England u17s, runners up in the euros 

never finished outside the play offs in 3 championship seasons. In one of these he took over a team bottom to finishing 6th and winning the play offs 

Then kept Forest up in his first season in the premier league. Sacked with them 17th which is exactly the same position they are now 

of that’s a mixed bag I’m not sure what sort of manager you expect us to get

Definetly think they have gone backwards since appointing Nuno.

[The Oggmonster]

Cooper would be a great appointment in whichever league we end up in next season imo.

[Fabrice29]

We’re not sacking Martin and if we did after he delivered a near 90 point season then you’ll do well to convince credible managers to trust you. 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, Fabrice29 said:

We’re not sacking Martin and if we did after he delivered a near 90 point season then you’ll do well to convince credible managers to trust you. 

Nearer 80 than 90.

Besides, money talks.

[Fabrice29]

1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Nearer 80 than 90.

Besides, money talks.

Yeah money might talk but so do other teams, with equal or more money. Presumably ones that haven’t been through 4 managers in 2 seasons too. 

Edited April 22 by Fabrice29

[trousers]

12 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

We’re not sacking Martin and if we did after he delivered a near 90 point season then you’ll do well to convince credible managers to trust you. 

Has it been a "near 90 point season"  because we've been exceptional or because the collective quality of the teams below us has been poorer than usual...? 

#itsallrelative

[Weston Super Saint]

14 hours ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

I agree. I deliberately chose the word exciting rather than competent. To be fair to RM, he has got us playing some neat passing football, but a) he hasn't got a plan when teams come on to us and b) he isn't yet tactically astute enough to react to changes from the opposition. In some ways, despite the incompetence up front and lack of a goalkeeper who saves shots, it's our midfield that is getting exposed. One poster mentioned we lost the plot when Romeu went and nowadays when Downes isn't playing and that's what he needs to sort out.

Personally reckon Charles could develop in to a competent CDM but there's something RM doesn't like about him. Maybe it's just his inexperience.

He hasn't got a plan when teams come on to us because :

a) We don't give a shit about other teams, how they play, what tactics they use etc

and 

b) We only have a passing interest in what they do at set pieces

Because :

c) Our system is the best, trust the system, we will be brave, therefore we will win.

It's sad but true.  If we spent a little time on the tactics of other teams, maybe we wouldn't throw away so many winning positions.

[Wade Garrett]

54 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

He hasn't got a plan when teams come on to us because :

a) We don't give a shit about other teams, how they play, what tactics they use etc

and 

b) We only have a passing interest in what they do at set pieces

Because :

c) Our system is the best, trust the system, we will be brave, therefore we will win.

It's sad but true.  If we spent a little time on the tactics of other teams, maybe we wouldn't throw away so many winning positions.

It’s like a weird religious cult.

[Weston Super Saint]

7 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

It’s like a weird religious cult.

I can think of another four letter word beginning with c and ending with t...

[notnowcato]

8 hours ago, trousers said:

Has it been a "near 90 point season"  because we've been exceptional or because the collective quality of the teams below us has been poorer than usual...? 

#itsallrelative

Average 90 points over past 10 or 20 years of Championship football should give you the answer to get you off the fence 😉

[trousers]

18 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Average 90 points over past 10 or 20 years of Championship football should give you the answer to get you off the fence 😉

Nah... prefer to stay open minded thanks....

[Toussaint]

9 hours ago, trousers said:

Has it been a "near 90 point season"  because we've been exceptional or because the collective quality of the teams below us has been poorer than usual...? 

#itsallrelative

The second point plus the embarrassment of riches within the squad he was given to work with.

Edited April 23 by Toussaint

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

Average 90 points over past 10 or 20 years of Championship football should give you the answer to get you off the fence 😉

Not really, it seems clear to me the gap between the prem, and particularly the teams relegated, is widening at an exponential rate.

[trousers]

Assume there'll only be one candidate on Wilcox's replacement radar....

 

[david in sweden]

1 hour ago, Toussaint said:

Not really, it seems clear to me the gap between the Prem,  and particularly the teams relegated, is widening at an exponential rate.

well said Toussaint,

I've quoted several times in the past that the "gap" between the bottom of the Prem... and the top end of the Championship is far greater than

merely 3 league places.   Looking at last season when Burnley were runaway winners in the Championship whilst Luton and Sheff. United made

it more by luck than judgment, and this season's performances have been no real surprise to many of us.  

 

Saints' final relegation had been delayed  - only because there had been 3 sides - a little worse than we were - for several seasons past. 

Leeds and Leicester drew the short straws and  came down at the same time ..when on the balance  Forest and Everton were worse and can

count themselves very lucky to have survived by getting a few extra points in the last month. 

 

This season all three promoted sides were treading water from the first games, and they are in line for an abrupt return to the Championship,

and maybe Forest and Everton will survive for yet another year - subject to off-the-field punishments of a points deduction. 

 

[Give it to Ron]

13 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

We’re not sacking Martin and if we did after he delivered a near 90 point season then you’ll do well to convince credible managers to trust you. 

Was Nathan Jones a credible manager? Managers will come here we are a good place to attract. Whether our owners can do that is another matter.

I agree we won’t sack him and after 15m spent on sacking him and Ralph we can’t but something has to change next season we simply cannot allow teams to walk through our midfield again.

Edited April 23 by Give it to Ron

[Fan The Flames]

Is the gulf between the two getting greater? If it was you would expect the three promoted teams to come straight back down most of the time, but this rarely happens. You can still go up and stay up if you do it properly. All non big club clubs are one bad season away from going down and often the foundations for a bad season are laid in the season before. Which means there is a space in the Prem ready to be bagged by the most prepared promoted team.