Saints 4-4 Norwich

[Fan The Flames]

7 minutes ago, Stud mark of doom said:

I think it’s true to say that VAR hasn’t changed this at all - they are just now moaning about VAR decisions, and the inconsistent use of VAR etc etc. of course, they need to talk about something to fill all that air time, 

meanwhile, I’ve been two games without VAR, six 6 saints goals and two penalties to celebrate instantly and unreservedly. 
 

it feels like proper football is back to me. 

Are people moaning about VAR decisions or just the length of time VAR takes. Most VAR decisions I reckon are correct. 

People don't like the marginal offside decisions made by VAR but are happy to accept the maginal decisions made in real time by the linesman. So that suggestes its the interuption to the game that annoys more and I get that. If they could speed that bit up it would improve VAR.

We scored 6 goals this season and VAR could only have got involved in one, the first yesterday with Stephens slightly shoving the defender. Norwich had a goal ruled out mid celebration, so it still happens.

[eurosaint]

20 minutes ago, Kermitzasaint said:

Interesting you mention being belittled. Pretty sure the name calling was directed at me also being accused of not understanding Martin's football style.

I concentrate on his football, not all the pointless stuff around it. I don't understand the focus on his hair, his religion etc. The fawning on here is amusing but I don't call fans names. 

I think our squad is capable of promotion with a few additions in central defence. I don't think Martin has the skills to do it though. 

His interview after the game indicated he was happy with the performance and enjoyed it. 

Personally I don't think that's good enough and sends the wrong message to the team. 

Did you actually listen to his interview ? 

"I'm really annoyed and frustrated at a few bits of it as well. Their real strength is in transition, and we gave them too many moments, but the lads were relentless.

[Smirking_Saint]

Ok lets give this a goal then.. I wanted to sleep on the result last night and ultimately Im happier then I was at the end of 90 minutes. There was a lot of good positives, but also of course, some big negatives.

We play some exceptional football when in possession, and realistically are scoring and creating a lot more than I anticipated, especially after the last couple of years

Frankly we need to be netter at stopping opposing transitions, and for that Id suggest a proper No.6, not Smallbone who is exceptional on the ball but just not defensively sound enough. Beyond that, we need to work on defending crosses, be that they’re set pieces or in play.. thats not anything new unfortunately

But I do see a lot of positives and with Charles or Downes at 6 I don’t think we lose that
 

Stephens/Bednarek - Unfortunately Im not convinced by them at this level, they were too often exposed but they’re not great 1v1. Stephens was at fault for 1st and 4th… the guy just can’t mark effectively

Smallbone/Armstrong/Alcaraz - Created plenty and S Armstrong creates some lovely spaces but we were far too open today. Im convinced if we started Charles we’d of won that today. Alcaraz will simply have to improve his stamina and start tracking back on transitions, it leaves us short. 
 

Shea Charles - Thought he looked excellent when he came on today, provided resilience and is calm and tidy on the ball

KWP/Manning - Both good offensively but looked shaky defensively today, they’ll need help on transitions and neither Tella but especially Edozie gave them enough protection. One to be concerned about, as, if we can’t defend crosses effectively we HAVE to stop them at source

[Colinjb]

24 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

What is interesting, is after the match he saying stuff similar to Jones, but his choice of words and delivery is better, so he doesn't sound like a prick.

The fine line between honesty and preening vanity.

[The Cat]

42 minutes ago, Kermitzasaint said:

Interesting you mention being belittled. Pretty sure the name calling was directed at me also being accused of not understanding Martin's football style.

I concentrate on his football, not all the pointless stuff around it. I don't understand the focus on his hair, his religion etc. The fawning on here is amusing but I don't call fans names. 

I think our squad is capable of promotion with a few additions in central defence. I don't think Martin has the skills to do it though. 

His interview after the game indicated he was happy with the performance and enjoyed it. 

Personally I don't think that's good enough and sends the wrong message to the team. 

Are you talking about the interview on Solent, because I heard that and he said was annoyed with the fact we let in 4 goals and we would work hard to stop that happening. Pretty sure he went on to say that's for him and the coaches to sit down and look at so he even took some of the blame.

He was happy with how we attacked and the number of shots we had which was 30+. 

[fanimal]

Would still rather have Perraud at left back he can cross and shoot much better than Manning his free kick in the second half was appalling 

[CB Fry]

40 minutes ago, Kermitzasaint said:

His interview after the game indicated he was happy with the performance and enjoyed it. 

Personally I don't think that's good enough and sends the wrong message to the team. 

In other words you've misrepresented what was in the post match interview and then got yourself upset about it.

Literally said he was annoyed and frustrated but carry on making shit up if it gets you through the day

 

[Saint Fan CaM]

Most issues have been highlighted already so I’ll keep this short. Enjoyable game…we deserved at least a draw. Norwich are a good team and knew how to hurt us. If we don’t sort out the weak transitions and zonal defending stuff we’ll struggle to stay in with a shout of promotion. Can’t see the two CB’s being replaced, so somehow they need better coaching. We need more height/grit…Che brought that and to some extent so did Charles…they’re starters for me. Edozie and Tella need to be prepared to bust a gut and close down the opposition quicker…the full backs we’re left exposed. Baz seems to make himself look small most of time, but credit to him for the 1v1 block 2nd half to keep us in the game.

Amazing first Saints game for my Grandson to witness - not sure he was able to take it all in! Certainly one to remember.

[Whitey Grandad]

8 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

It did occur to me that a Premier League keeper would have saved that first one

But he wasn’t so it isn’t really relevant. Had it been in the Premier League the shot wouldn’t have gone there.

[Whitey Grandad]

8 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I've always said if it's not clear and obvious to the extent that you can't tell immediately from a replay that it was the wrong decision, it should stay as the referee's call on the pitch. I don't see why that is so difficult to implement. 

Because the back seat officials don’t want to get it right, they just want to interfere and be in control.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Fan The Flames said:

That was the problem, no one sucked it up, fans moaned, managers moaned in press conferences, Sky had whole segments after the match moaning, fans on phone ins were moaning, the papers the next day were moaning. That's why VAR came in.

And that’s exactly why VAR should never have been introduced. The media promotes the controversy. They thrive on it. It’s what makes people watch and get involved. They create arguments. It doesn’t make for better football.

[Fan The Flames]

6 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

And that’s exactly why VAR should never have been introduced. The media promotes the controversy. They thrive on it. It’s what makes people watch and get involved. They create arguments. It doesn’t make for better football.

Thats a strange take, the moaning along with some shocking decisions made it impossible to resist VAR.

[Convict Colony]

Haven't re-watched the game but the overriding sense for me is that for all norwich's goals whilst the defenders are getting all the shit for the goals most of the fault originally was with the forward/midfielders either losing the ball, not tracking back or not making a tackle/standing off.

Hopefully including Charles and Downes harden's that up a bit more.

Edited 13 August, 2023 by Convict Colony

[david in sweden]

1 hour ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Yeah I'd rather VAR, it needs work but ultimately it is a bonus

As great as the current feeling is I'll await the meltdown when we lose to a refereeing mistake 

Exactly .. for years we moaned because we could watch SKY (or whoever's) replays and see correct decisions even if referees were 20 yards behind 

the play and / or misjudged situations,  or even those cases when the linesman got it wrong. 

Looking at the potential benefits of promotion to the Prem... isn't it time to play fair and have compulsory VAR in Championship matches, too?.... 

It's not a " cheap league " to be playing in and every club deserves to know they are getting fair and correct decisions.

Imagine ...... losing out on promotion because of one wrong offside decision.     The prospect is frightening. 

[Totton Saint]

Looks like we have a good replacement for JWP taking penalties in Adam Armstrong.

[Wade Garrett]

I fucking hate the football buzzwords:

’pressing’ non-hipsters used to call it closing down.

’transition’ non-hipsters used to call it on the break.

’Low block’ non-hipsters used to call it defending deep.

Fucking winds me up.

 

[skintsaint]

12 hours ago, igsey said:

I hope we do some penalty practice in training, both of AA's were awful. Gunn should have got the first and the second would have been a simple save if he'd gone the right way. Stick it in the corner!

Some people just like to moan for the sake of it. 

[Totton Saint]

4 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

I fucking hate the football buzzwords:

’pressing’ non-hipsters used to call it closing down.

’transition’ non-hipsters used to call it on the break.

’Low block’ non-hipsters used to call it defending deep.

Fucking winds me up.

 

What about " round the corner."

[Whitey Grandad]

44 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Thats a strange take, the moaning along with some shocking decisions made it impossible to resist VAR.

The moaning did the ‘shocking’ decisions were few and far between and have not disappeared with the arrival of VAR.

[Whitey Grandad]

5 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Some people just like to moan for the sake of it. 

Exactly. “If he’d gone the right way”. Maybe AA ‘sent’ him that way?

[JRM]

1 hour ago, Smirking_Saint said:

 

Ok lets give this a goal then.. I wanted to sleep on the result last night and ultimately Im happier then I was at the end of 90 minutes. There was a lot of good positives, but also of course, some big negatives.

We play some exceptional football when in possession, and realistically are scoring and creating a lot more than I anticipated, especially after the last couple of years

Frankly we need to be netter at stopping opposing transitions, and for that Id suggest a proper No.6, not Smallbone who is exceptional on the ball but just not defensively sound enough. Beyond that, we need to work on defending crosses, be that they’re set pieces or in play.. thats not anything new unfortunately

But I do see a lot of positives and with Charles or Downes at 6 I don’t think we lose that
 

Stephens/Bednarek - Unfortunately Im not convinced by them at this level, they were too often exposed but they’re not great 1v1. Stephens was at fault for 1st and 4th… the guy just can’t mark effectively

Smallbone/Armstrong/Alcaraz - Created plenty and S Armstrong creates some lovely spaces but we were far too open today. Im convinced if we started Charles we’d of won that today. Alcaraz will simply have to improve his stamina and start tracking back on transitions, it leaves us short. 
 

Shea Charles - Thought he looked excellent when he came on today, provided resilience and is calm and tidy on the ball

KWP/Manning - Both good offensively but looked shaky defensively today, they’ll need help on transitions and neither Tella but especially Edozie gave them enough protection. One to be concerned about, as, if we can’t defend crosses effectively we HAVE to stop them at source

Stephens at fault for the 4th? Really? 

[Verbal]

16 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

I fucking hate the football buzzwords:

’pressing’ non-hipsters used to call it closing down.

’transition’ non-hipsters used to call it on the break.

’Low block’ non-hipsters used to call it defending deep.

Fucking winds me up.

 

How could you have a hipster index and not include 'La Pausa'? It's practically all they talk about in the home cafes round our way.

[moonraker]

Our Bath City loanee got MoM fire the Romans today,  kept them in it with a string of Greta saves.  Big difference in leagues but you never know😉

[SotonianWill]

I don’t know why people are getting annoyed about goal music, we’ve had it for years. We just hadn’t realised as we never scored.

[sledger]

44 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

I fucking hate the football buzzwords:

’pressing’ non-hipsters used to call it closing down.

’transition’ non-hipsters used to call it on the break.

’Low block’ non-hipsters used to call it defending deep.

Fucking winds me up.

 

100% with you on this

[Tamesaint]

Thought that we could have used the wings a lot more - especially in the first half when Tella was often in acres of space but we (primarily KWP) chose to go inside.

Must say that I love the extended additional time that is going to be played this season. Knowing that we had 8 minutes (last season it would have been 4) meant a less frantic additional time. 

8 bookings in the game -the first one after 14 seconds !!! You get booked for kicking the ball away a  metre but nothing for the repeated fouls on Tella. I am not sure that the refs have got this sorted correctly!!

[Saint Billy]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

I fucking hate the football buzzwords:

’pressing’ non-hipsters used to call it closing down.

’transition’ non-hipsters used to call it on the break.

’Low block’ non-hipsters used to call it defending deep.

Fucking winds me up.

 

I think your comments are sick.

[Dman]

My thoughts, for whatever they're worth. 

The best I've seen St Mary's in years. Genuienly a good atmopshere in all 4 stands of the ground, other than maybe 20 mins of the first half. As much as i hate to say it, the goal music worked pretty well. 

Overall I don't think a point is a terribly bad result. Norwich were better than I thought they would be and will certainly be one of the stronger sides we'll play this season, I'd certainly expect them to be up there. The last few seasons we don't get anything from that game, the mentality is changing, which is good to see. However, that's 2 games now where we've relied on Che to change the game for us off the bench, which is a concern as he's not going to be here in a months time. 

I think Martin got it wrong with the starting 11, especially in midfield. It was too attacking and didn't have the right balance. We struggled to really dominate the ball, were a bit all over the place going forwrd and defending. That being said, I thnk he got it spot on in game. 

Alacraz was pretty poor up until Charles came on imo. Kudos to Charles, he looked really good and composed. Has to be starting in that deeper role for me.

I'm not a fan of tella on the right, would much rather he was played on the left with SAA on the right. 

I think Ryan Manning is a pretty poor player. He reminds me of Danny Fox and would get ripped alive in the PL. 

Our inabliy to defend crosses, acually, inability to defend at all, is a real worry.

For me, yesterday summed up why I don't think we'll go up, we're just too sloppy. Its going to b a stressful season if we have to endure that every week!

We have the foundations of being a decent side, but were not there yet. 

 

[Fan The Flames]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

The moaning did the ‘shocking’ decisions were few and far between and have not disappeared with the arrival of VAR.

Well no one's scoring with their hand anymore.

[Matty's Caddy]

1 hour ago, Totton Saint said:

Looks like we have a good replacement for JWP taking penalties in Adam Armstrong.

2 awful penalties. Both a good height for the keeper, neither in the corner. Not for me

[gio1saints]

8 minutes ago, Matty's Caddy said:

2 awful penalties. Both a good height for the keeper, neither in the corner. Not for me

Wow glass half empty or what? 
IF Adam misses the first one then he was never going to start again and our “fans” would put such a big “ hate “on him he might have had to be taken off. 
He misses the last one in injury time and that’s end if his career at southampton maybe even at this level. 
But they both went in . For such a small bloke he’s got big cojones. A good penalty is one that goes in. A bad one is a miss. That’s all we should care about. As far as showing his mental strength AA just got an  A from me. Fair do’s to often much maligned but hardworking footballer. So, I disagree with your view. 😇

Edited 13 August, 2023 by gio1saints

[miserableoldgit]

2 minutes ago, Matty's Caddy said:

2 awful penalties. Both a good height for the keeper, neither in the corner. Not for me

Damned if he does....damned if he doesn't. Criticising penalty takers when they have just scored two penalties is just about the most pointless thing. Did you have a go about JWP if any of his penalties were close to the keeper.......or were all of his penalties perfect? A perfect penalty is when the ball goes in the back of the net. Maybe you just need something to moan about? Better not look at this:-

[miserableoldgit]

5 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Wow glass half empty or what? 
IF Adam misses the first one then he was never going to start again and our “fans” would put such a big “ hate “on him he might have had to be taken off. 
He misses the last one in injury time and that’s end if his career at southampton maybe even at this level. 
But they both went in . For such a small bloke he’s got big cojones. A good penalty is one that goes in. A bad one is a miss. That’s all we should care about. As far as showing his mental strength AA just got an  A from me. Fair do’s to often much maligned but hardworking footballer. So, I disagree with your view. 😇

It's about "opinions" though innit?

[whelk]

16 minutes ago, Matty's Caddy said:

2 awful penalties. Both a good height for the keeper, neither in the corner. Not for me

Fuck off. Have more faith in Armstrong than JWP for pens

[Fan The Flames]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

I fucking hate the football buzzwords:

’pressing’ non-hipsters used to call it closing down.

’transition’ non-hipsters used to call it on the break.

’Low block’ non-hipsters used to call it defending deep.

Fucking winds me up.

A well executed post, I'm not a lover of playing a 8 or playing a 10, but really it's just a different generation with different terms. I don't think transition and on the break are the same thing.

[bugenhagen]

20 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Well no one's scoring with their hand anymore.

I don't care. Let me enjoy this year witout VAR. I wish it had never been introduced in the first place. Soooo much better watching football witout VAR in my opinion.🙂

[adrian lord]

2 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

I fucking hate the football buzzwords:

’pressing’ non-hipsters used to call it closing down.

’transition’ non-hipsters used to call it on the break.

’Low block’ non-hipsters used to call it defending deep.

Fucking winds me up.

 

“Through the channels” 

[Fan The Flames]

'Against the ball', that triggers the old boys.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Why does the world have to change 😢

[miserableoldgit]

4 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Why does the world have to change 😢

 

[Totton Saint]

41 minutes ago, Matty's Caddy said:

2 awful penalties. Both a good height for the keeper, neither in the corner. Not for me

Is'nt a penalty takers skill sending the keeper the wrong way - It happens so often. I thought both AA's penalties were hit so hard few if any keepers would have saved them.

[miserableoldgit]

3 minutes ago, Totton Saint said:

Is'nt a penalty takers skill sending the keeper the wrong way - It happens so often. I thought both AA's penalties were hit so hard few if any keepers would have saved them.

[Totton Saint]

29 minutes ago, adrian lord said:

“Through the channels” 

Managing the game?  taking one for the team?

[Harry_SFC]

37 minutes ago, whelk said:

Fuck off. Have more faith in Armstrong than JWP for pens

Me too actually. Was never convinced by JWP and penalties. 

[saintstowin]

For me that was the best atmosphere for seasons, not just the exciting game, but I sense must of us want to believe it will be different this season and want to play our part in that. The buzz outside the ground, lots of smiles and anticipation, and keeping the support up when they scored. A good football day. At last. 

[Kingsland Codger]

Our second penalty ... the ITV commentator said KWP "may have done his best to manufacure that" - yet it looked like a forearm to the back of KWP's neck and was correctly given.

[The Kraken]

Just watched the highlights. Bloody hell, our lot really need to learn how to defend as a team. Goal 1, so easy to allow the cross in then minimal defending, the lad just nods it in at the back post. Number 2, all three of our central midfielders just allow them to play straight through us, hot knife through butter. Goal 3, appalling defending from a corner, free header from 8 yards out. Goal 4, hapless defending from Manning just gifting the striker a clean shot. All 4 goals were entirely avoidable, it’s not just the defenders that were culpable, we just don’t look very good at defending as a team. Hopefully we can get the Downes signing over the line and Shea Charles can get up to speed and give the midfield a bit of solidity, we look extremely porous based on that showing.

Also, I’m absolutely no fan of Bazunu, I think he’s absolutely terrible, but I wouldn’t be blaming him for any of those goals. He wasn’t positioned all that great for the first one, but aside from that he couldn’t do much about the others.

[Wade Garrett]

3 hours ago, Totton Saint said:

What about " round the corner."

I don’t mind that.  Big Ron started that one, so it’s old school as far as I’m concerned.

[Wade Garrett]

2 hours ago, Verbal said:

How could you have a hipster index and not include 'La Pausa'? It's practically all they talk about in the home cafes round our way.

Bearded vaping cunts.

[Convict Colony]

There are layers to our fuck ups, just done a quick review of goal 1 - sequence here https://youtu.be/WGEgc7zgWRc?t=25