How to sort it...starting on Saturday

[Oldandtired]

We all have our theories on what is wrong with the club atm, RM out etc but I was wondering what peoples' theories on what can be done to sort it out, preferably by next Saturday?

I have to admit I wouldn't have a clue where to start apart from reverting to what old people like myself call 'normal' football,just wondering what others ideas are.

[saintant]

There is only one solution - sack RM and his coaches. It won't happen.

[Dusic]

One small thing but I feel makes a difference. Put Edozie back on the left.

Easily our best wide player this season has been Edozie.

Seemed strange to me that after having his full back on toast in each of the first 3/4 games, he was moved to the right to accomodate Fraser who hasnt done much really.

Pretty sure he will stick with the midfield 3 from today.

Obviously lacking confidence and our crowd probably won't provide a huge amount of support so will be a very tough game.

Lose that and its hard to see where Martin goes unless the club comes and says they are happy not to challenge this season for the longer term goal of resetting everything.

Edited 23 September, 2023 by Dusic

[Chewy]

My opinion fwiw.

From a tactical perspective we’re too far apart from front to back. We need to squeeze further forward so we start passing it around 10-15 years further up than we currently are. The biggest difference between the Sheff Wed performance and recent games is this. Obviously Sheff Wed helped us by playing deep, plus a high line is dangerous without pace at the back, but if we keep playing where we are in front of our own box we a) invite an immediate goal opportunity against when we lose it and b) don’t have our two more offensive midfielders near enough to the ball. And if they drop deep they’re too far from the forwards to create anything meaningful. 

Secondly we’re not using width properly. (and again were so much better first game with especially Tella and KWP). Because we’re too stretched we’re slow to support the wingers. Their only option is to go backwards or beat a man and cross; but we only have one striker,  who’s not very tall, so it’s a waste. I’d like our wide men narrower to create more of a front three, only have one AM so they don’t get in each others way, have two sitting to allow our full backs to be wider and more supportive of attacks and to also allow us to dominate the middle. It should also make us harder to play through. Seeing as our weakness will be scoring goals (because we FAIL EVERY SINGLE F***ING TRANSFER WINDOW TO SIGN A STRIKER) we need to work on being harder to beat.
We won’t create much through crosses but by clever play in the channels so I’d like a bit of guile and pace here (I.e. not ArmA), full backs able to join in without leaving us overly exposed, and some strength in midfield.

Unfortunately I don’t know who could partner Shea in midfield to play a deeper role - didn’t watch today but gather Downes was poor. I’d be concerned about being exposed to pace at the back with a high line as well, but every system has its downsides and at least it gets the ball further away which helps defensively and offensively.

My ideal team (form and fitness permitting) would be

Baz

KWP Jack (THB) Jan Manning

Shea Downes/Smallbone 

3 from Edozie Stu Charlie Kamaldeen

Ross (Adams)

But there are still glaring concerns which are cb pace, left back, second midfielder and the striker if Ross isn’t as good as Aguero.  Plus most concerningly, leadership and character.
It’s not going to be easy for anyone, but I’d expect the above to offer a better showing than Martin’s lot managed against Leicester, Sunderland, Ipswich, Boro and in fact QPR (who were unlucky to lose on chances and was where this all started to unravel).

We were actually pretty close to being in the right shape v Sheff Wed but seem to be going backwards every new game. I know Wednesday were poor and we had a couple of players who’ve now left but we’ve fallen so far from that performance level I’m seriously concerned. The last thing we need is more upheaval but from my perspective it’s pretty obvious we’re now on entirely the wrong track and the sooner we make a u- turn, the better.

[Streaky]

58 minutes ago, Oldandtired said:

We all have our theories on what is wrong with the club atm, RM out etc but I was wondering what peoples' theories on what can be done to sort it out, preferably by next Saturday?

I have to admit I wouldn't have a clue where to start apart from reverting to what old people like myself call 'normal' football,just wondering what others ideas are.

We defend first then go from there. I'd go 532 and counter attack teams. Are defence is so wide open at the moment it's ridiculous.

Would also help kwp play his natural game and I'd play alcaraz in behind adams and Armstrong and stop this possession for the sake of it.

[Wade Garrett]

It will be more of the same under  Martin.

Turn next week around - get a new manager in place tomorrow.  

[trousers]

1 hour ago, Oldandtired said:

We all have our theories on what is wrong with the club atm, RM out etc but I was wondering what peoples' theories on what can be done to sort it out, preferably by next Saturday?

I have to admit I wouldn't have a clue where to start

Good evening Russell... Welcome to the forum... Fear not, you've come to the right place to get the help you need ... 

Edited 23 September, 2023 by trousers

[iansums]

Forget it, we’re shit and going down. Goodnight all.

[StrangelyBrown]

I said it before the game switch to a proper 4-2-3-1 with the right players...

Baz in goal, defense picks itself.

Shea to hold and Downes to play the box to box role. Pick the best 3 attacking miss either play alcarez in the middle and stu and Edozie in the other wide positions or play stu in the middle with Arma or Frazer and Edozie.

Press properly from the front and move the ball quickly when in possession. But most importantly put a fucking shift in - when you lose the ball you work twice as hard to get it back.

It's not exactly rocket science.

1 last point never ever put aribo in a saints shirt again.

[Roo1976]

Well all i know is that were are now currently 4 games as it stands behind automatic promotion, watched the stream today but only got the stream after boro got level.Thoughts,how does Smallbone get ahead of Alcaraz, and to some point Aribo(theres a player there somewhere). We have a set piece coach apparently!.From what i witnessed we were so so exposed through failure to connect with our own players, Boro should have had 2 more,but for an excellent save by Baz and some very poor decisions making by Boro. Our insistance of playing slow sideways and backward passing seems to stem from our midfield players not having the belief that they can or are capable of beating the player in front,and we show no strengths in tackling.We are so over run and weak,yes you might get whacked but youll never know if you dont show and put in the effort. Where to go from here? well it would help to go 4-4-2 imo  and play the right player in the right place.Bree whats wrong with him? Manning was bloody useless today,Holgate..........................please..............oh bugger rant over too much to talk about ...................................................................................................

[Toussaint]

10 hours ago, Roo1976 said:

Well all i know is that were are now currently 4 games as it stands behind automatic promotion, watched the stream today but only got the stream after boro got level.Thoughts,how does Smallbone get ahead of Alcaraz, and to some point Aribo(theres a player there somewhere). We have a set piece coach apparently!.From what i witnessed we were so so exposed through failure to connect with our own players, Boro should have had 2 more,but for an excellent save by Baz and some very poor decisions making by Boro. Our insistance of playing slow sideways and backward passing seems to stem from our midfield players not having the belief that they can or are capable of beating the player in front,and we show no strengths in tackling.We are so over run and weak,yes you might get whacked but youll never know if you dont show and put in the effort. Where to go from here? well it would help to go 4-4-2 imo  and play the right player in the right place.Bree whats wrong with him? Manning was bloody useless today,Holgate..........................please..............oh bugger rant over too much to talk about ...................................................................................................

Unfortunately Roo that’s only true if we win our next four and everyone in the promotion spots loses those matches.  The reality is we’d probably need an eight to twelve game winning streak to threaten those positions. I think the automatic promotion ship has well and truly sailed.

As for what we do? I haven’t a clue. Russ has now ruined this bunch, they are shot under him. He is the one who has inflicted scar tissue, the players (many of whom are new) and the  fans, full of optimism, offered a clean slate this season. It’s Russell  and the idiots who run SR have destroyed the players and fans alike this season. 
 

In answer to the OP, so yes, normal football would be a start, so would a normal manager and a normal bloke pulling the strings or better still having no involvement at all in football strategies and employing and trusting people who know what they are doing, not dictating the strategy and employing weak yes men to carry it out. Looking at you Rasmus because that’s where all roads lead in our meteoric decline.

Edited 24 September, 2023 by Toussaint
Tidy up

[a1ex2001]

Best we can possibly hope for this season is play offs.  The turn round could start quite simply by RM admitting his tactics and methods don’t work and picking out best 11 players in their best position and sending them out with a rocket up there backsides.

it won’t happen we will continue to play tippy tappy crap and defend like a bunch of church mice as RM has nailed his colours to that flag pole and definitely isn’t for turning.  So in reality the only way this gets better before next weekend is if the board find there balls and give him the boot today again it’s not going to happen they showed us last season that they like to stick with their mistakes until it becomes utterly impossible to resist the pressure to get them out.

[beatlesaint]

The first thing I would say is stop the short intricate passing in the defensive third, we are shite at it and lose the ball regularly, this leads to conceding ridiculous goals.

Get the keeper or defender to hit it long, get it down then play your passing/possession game in attack and around the half way line. 
 

 

[Chez]

15 hours ago, Dusic said:

One small thing but I feel makes a difference. Put Edozie back on the left.

Easily our best wide player this season has been Edozie.

Seemed strange to me that after having his full back on toast in each of the first 3/4 games, he was moved to the right to accomodate Fraser who hasnt done much really.

 

Agree. When he came on, he played on the left and Sulemena on the right. Worked pretty well for me. If you are going to play wingers, play wingers. And show some fuckign faith in them. Give them a long run in the side not drop them after one underwhelming game. 

[Oldandtired]

Thank you for the replies, interesting reading. As I said in the op I don’t really know what the complete answer is, especially in the short term, but just hope that there has got to be something soon…please!

[LGTL]

It easy to sort for a competent manager. Unfortunately, we have Russell Martin. 

Start by getting your best players on the pitch. Alcaraz, S Armstrong and Edozie should all be playing. 

Get rid of utter shit like Smallbone. 

Stop needless passes. Countless times yesterday the ball went to a player via another player, when it could have gone from X to Y with one pass. Pointless. 

If we’re going to play this tippy tappy, then do it fucking quicker. 

Stop leaving nobody back for attacking corners. Absolute suicide. 

 

Most of all, the best thing we can do to help for Saturday would be to sack Russell fucking Martin. 

[derry]

What we have is an obsessive that can't see that it's his obsession is the flaw together with his ex Swansea favourites aided and abetted by Smallbone's unambitious just unload mentality.

[Ken Tone]

Just stop the suicidal reoeatedly playing it short in defence until someone makes a mistake and gives the opposition a scoring chance. 

It seems that we do this because it's fashionable.... Man City do it etc... but we haven't got the players City have. 

[egg]

We need to get back to basics and do the simple things. Our full backs need to pay as full backs. If one goes, the other doesn't. We need two midfielders, and one slightly ahead, or even a tighter 3. I'd even be happy with a properly drilled 442/4411. Our wide men need to tuck in and support the striker, not sit wide to cross to nobody. Sadly we have a manager wedded to his preferred kamikaze tactics, limited midfield options, and a squad with no confidence.

I'd get as much experience on the pitch as possible. At the moment I'd play Bree at RB to play as an old skool RB. I'd play Charles in midfield with Manning, and Downes as well to make it tighter, if not SA. I'd play SA and AA wide of Adams, but Edozie in for SAnif he's in the midfield. Sadly Alcaraz's head's not in the game (apparently) but I'm not sure he's the answer right now anyway. 

Moreover, we need new management. No project. No "future star". Just an experienced manager who'll get the players doing the basics properly, give some leadership, instil some leadership and belief on the pitch, and get us winning. 

[S-Clarke]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

We need to get back to basics and do the simple things. Our full backs need to pay as full backs. If one goes, the other doesn't. We need two midfielders, and one slightly ahead, or even a tighter 3. I'd even be happy with a properly drilled 442/4411. Our wide men need to tuck in and support the striker, not sit wide to cross to nobody. Sadly we have a manager wedded to his preferred kamikaze tactics, limited midfield options, and a squad with no confidence.

I'd get as much experience on the pitch as possible. At the moment I'd play Bree at RB to play as an old skool RB. I'd play Charles in midfield with Manning, and Downes as well to make it tighter, if not SA. I'd play SA and AA wide of Adams, but Edozie in for SAnif he's in the midfield. Sadly Alcaraz's head's not in the game (apparently) but I'm not sure he's the answer right now anyway. 

Moreover, we need new management. No project. No "future star". Just an experienced manager who'll get the players doing the basics properly, give some leadership, instil some leadership and belief on the pitch, and get us winning. 

Absolutely, I wouldn't even just say it's the playing side which needs to get back to basics, it's the club as a whole. There doesn't seem to be a single element at this club which functions well these days. We bring in proven people from elsewhere and they fail, we try again, they fail again - there is something deep and fundamentally broken and I'm at a loss as to how to fix it.

Going back to basics on a footballing side is a good start, but there is so much more wrong here it's impossible to know where to start.

It looks to me as if SR are totally in over their heads if I'm honest.

[Convict Colony]

It's like we've been learning golf this season.

First game was like us having our swing good and the balls going straight where want them.

Then every game after we've started moving feet, changing hands and now we've got the fucking yips and couldn't hit a 🐄 arse with a 🪕.

We've got too complicated and fucked it up.

Edited 24 September, 2023 by Convict Colony

[ant]

3 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

It's like we've been learning golf this season.

First game was like us having our swing good and the balls going straight where want them.

Then every game after we've started moving feet, changing hands and now we've got the fucking yips and couldn't hit a 🐄 arse with a 🪕.

We've got too complicated and fucked it up.

I like this analogy.

The alternative/extra curricular activity to the 'back to basics' approach is to re-examine what was working in the first few matches.

The philosophy we supposedly play to hasn't - IMO - been in evidence since QPR. Everything since has been bitty and directionless. A chaotic group of strangers.

Rightly or wrongly we're likely to persist with Martin.

So he and his team need to very quickly identify whether: a) the players don't understand his tactics (but they managed to initially...); b) whether they're literally incapable of carrying them out (plausible in some cases); or c) whether they can't be arsed (can think of a few suspects).

My personal feeling is that it's a combo of all three. With selling the likes of JWP and Tella being key contributors to b). They were more capable of delivering Martin's ethos than those that have stepped into their positions.

[InTheChannel]

https://inthechannel.blogspot.com/2023/09/pain-courage-strap-in-vocabulary-behind.html?m=1
 

A look into the fan/team disconnect as a result of a very poor September 😇🔴⚪️

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Welcome To Dragan's Diary

Monday: Take control of SR.

Tuesday am: locate better club, but in financial peril.

Tuesday pm: Buy club

Wednesday 09:00 : Liquidate club. All coaching and player contracts terminated

Wednesday 09:01: All coaching and playing staff signed for Saints.

Wednesday 09:02: Pay up contracts of lots of Saints players and coaches.

Thursday: Fly in new squad and staff

Friday: Tactics and press conferences.

Saturday: 3 points.

Sunday: Deliver shredded copies of Rasmus' book to pet shop to line hamster cages.

Sometimes, the simple solutions are best 🙂

[Fan The Flames]

Our football has been both detrimental to defence without benefiting the attack. So I would look to focus on defence, get solid and build some confidence, they try and transition to Martins style.

Martin should be embarrassed to serve up another game of this shit, but I'm sure he'll persevere with his approach. I wonder if he ever considers what's good for the club or the fans, or is he just a cuckoo using the club to play out his football experiments.

[saintant]

17 minutes ago, InTheChannel said:

https://inthechannel.blogspot.com/2023/09/pain-courage-strap-in-vocabulary-behind.html?m=1
 

A look into the fan/team disconnect as a result of a very poor September 😇🔴⚪️

What a load of rubbish!

[Osvaldorama]

Stop conceding so many goals 

We are bottom of the entire EFL and conceding 2.4 goals per game. 
 

Relegation form. 

[disconnect]

10 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Stop conceding so many goals 

We are bottom of the entire EFL and conceding 2.4 goals per game. 
 

Relegation form. 

And with this in mind - stop making very risky passes at the back, and leaving slow players at the back to be outpaced on the counter (when we lose the ball from overplaying it again, and again, and again).

[CB Fry]

37 minutes ago, InTheChannel said:

https://inthechannel.blogspot.com/2023/09/pain-courage-strap-in-vocabulary-behind.html?m=1
 

A look into the fan/team disconnect as a result of a very poor September 😇🔴⚪️

Absolute drivel. Your key point seems to be that every other club has jittery moments all the time but by some astonishing bad fortune it's only our jittery moments are being capitalised on by our opponents.

And then something something it's all the fans fault.

[bugenhagen]

Watching our last games, I am getting a feeling that maybe our training intensity is too low. We can train against our own players at a pace that makes everything seem to work in training, but when Saturday comes, our tempo and passing is too slow against other teams. We get caught in possession and struggle to move the ball fast enough.

[trousers]

1 hour ago, InTheChannel said:

https://inthechannel.blogspot.com/2023/09/pain-courage-strap-in-vocabulary-behind.html?m=1
 

A look into the fan/team disconnect as a result of a very poor September 😇🔴⚪️

Still happy with this glowing piece on Martin ...?

 https://inthechannel.blogspot.com/2023/05/what-are-sport-republic-russling-up.html

 

 

 

[Sevvy]

My advice, stop dilly dallying at the back, the goal at the other end of the pitch is your target, put the bleeding ball between the posts. Simples,

Play the players in their  correct positions, it ain't  rocket science. 

[saintant]

40 minutes ago, trousers said:

Still happy with this glowing piece on Martin ...?

 https://inthechannel.blogspot.com/2023/05/what-are-sport-republic-russling-up.html

 

 

 

He needs to stick to watching re-runs of Bergerac because his understanding of football is a joke.

[Andy Hill]

For a start don’t play Smallbone or A.Armstrong or Fraser.  Make KWP Captain. Start Sulemana.

[Saint Billy]

Forget the press as we are leaving our defence exposed and we are shit at it. Stop the aimless short passes at the back, I would rather see the long game than continually having to witness the defence pass it amongst themselves and getting absolutely nowhere. Once in the final third stay there with forward players making themselves available for a pass rather than playing it back and recycling.

Finally, axe A Armstrong, Smallbone, Aribo, Manning, Holgate and put what's left in their strongest possible positions.

But, I don't think any of this will happen with our present chancer 

 

[Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan]

We need to concede less and score more, which is fairly obvious really.

In terms of conceding less, the answer to me is simple, play with players in natural positions where they know their shape, and stop playing so much around the back, play out from the back by all means, but not between players. I'd play Bazunu (although his shot-stopping really does need improving still) in goal. At the moment the centre back pairing seems to be THB and Bednarek, and that I'd work with, but just try and give them some confidence in each other. Bednarek is an international with years of experience, he needs to be commanding the defence, telling everyone around him where they need to be. Get him some proper defensive coaching (fuck knows how Martin was a centre back for so long based on how he wants ours to play) and tell THB to do what he did last year. KWP at right back, playing actual right back. He plays wide and overlaps when possible, and then uses his pace to cover the ground back. He doesn't invert (he's tiny, he cannot play midfield in the championship) and he tracks runners like he used to. THB covers the back post for deep crosses so that KWP isn't exposed. Manning plays at left back, he doesn't invert either. He plays wide, overlaps but less expansively than KWP. Charles sits in front in a traditional holding midfield role, taking the ball from the defense and linking plays. He learnt at Man City so I want him forming little passing triangles with the centre back and full back, and then up the pitch. We play short from the back and spread the ball wide, then inside to midfield. We don't play across the box, we don't try and carry the ball out of defence, and we don't push the centre backs into midfield.

Then, in front of that, Downes partners Charles (think Cork and Schneiderlin vibes). He plays box-to-box, and should in theory be the metronome of the team (as we all wanted JWP to be) taking us up the pitch when needed. We probably suit a 10 in front of that, ideally Charly once he's in the right place mentally, if not maybe Stuart. We want someone who is comfortable taking the ball on the turn and driving at a defence but with purpose (not Arma's shit touches and mindless runs to nowhere). Ideally they're playing the left channel, between a wide left winger, a right winger who comes inside, and a striker (see below).

Ahead of that we need to be more direct and creative. Sadly most of our wide players seem to operate best on the left, but we can work with that. We play a wide left winger, who (because Manning isn't as expansive in my system) has the freedom of the left wing. Depending on form, I'd play one of Edozie, Sulemana or Fraser. Edozie and Sulemana are told to try and pin the right back of the opposition deep, go past them and be a nuisance. If it's Fraser I want him on the touchline, ready to get the ball, beat a man, and put it somewhere dangerous. The right winger is playing inside, allowing KWP to have the right wing when we attack which is where he's excellent. Not sure we have a player who fits this role particularly, until SAA has developed some more. His dribbling ability and left foot seem perfect for this role. Perhaps Fraser could do it too for a bit. Up top, we play Adams until Stewart is fit. The striker's role is to be a presence, hold the ball up for the players around him (Alcaraz, Downes, SAA) and then get into the box and be ready to finish off moves. You don't need to drop deep, or press excessively to wear yourself out, just be ready to score goals.

Against 90% of championship teams this should be enough to control a game, keep a strong defensive shape and attack with better direction and some intent.

[Oldandtired]

52 minutes ago, Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan said:

 

Against 90% of championship teams this should be enough to control a game, keep a strong defensive shape and attack with better direction and some intent.

This, for me, is it in a nutshell. The players bought in were bought because they had certain strengths, expressing themselves, creative, defensively sound, whatever. It seems to me that this manager has taken all of these strengths, tossed them out of the window and told the players to play in a way that is probably alien to most of them. It’s like telling me, as a right handed person, to do everything with my left hand and do it better than everyone around me. It’s not gonna work.

I believe our squad should be strong enough to be up there challenging for the top spots. I also unfortunately believe that I’ve seen enough of this manager and his way of playing to know that’s not going to happen. 
 

I would love to be wrong but…..

 

[St Louis]

On 23/09/2023 at 20:37, iansums said:

Forget it, we’re shit and going down. Goodnight all.

Good evening Russell... Welcome to the forum...

[Wurzel]

On 23/09/2023 at 19:40, Chewy said:

My opinion fwiw.

From a tactical perspective we’re too far apart from front to back. We need to squeeze further forward so we start passing it around 10-15 years further up than we currently are. The biggest difference between the Sheff Wed performance and recent games is this. Obviously Sheff Wed helped us .......

Christ I know, I know refs have started adding on minutes for time wasting, and our build up play is slow but is it really that bad?

[Convict Colony]

Will we ever have a system that gets goals out of Adams, Armstrong regularly in games.

Can't wait for the loch Ness drogba to come in and give me some optimism of a goal fest.

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

Will we ever have a system that gets goals out of Adams, Armstrong regularly in games.

Can't wait for the loch Ness drogba to come in and give me some optimism of a goal fest.

Or more likely he'll start alright then go to shit like the rest of the team.

[rallyboy]

All the catering staff at the Leeds hotel need to suspend washing their hands from Wednesday morning, then we need to invite their players to a meal on Friday night and get them all totally shitfaced.

Perhaps free up Edozie from defensive duties too and let him run more without waiting for everyone else. 

[hypochondriac]

27 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

Will we ever have a system that gets goals out of Adams, Armstrong regularly in games.

Can't wait for the loch Ness drogba to come in and give me some optimism of a goal fest.

Adam Armstrong has been our biggest ever disappointment in recent years for me compared to how often he has played. At least Carillo and tall Paul barely played a game befor leaving. I have to endure Adam Armstrong stinking out the place every single week now he's assured a place in the first eleven and is inexplicably captain. 

[hypochondriac]

21 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

All the catering staff at the Leeds hotel need to suspend washing their hands from Wednesday morning, then we need to invite their players to a meal on Friday night and get them all totally shitfaced.

Perhaps free up Edozie from defensive duties too and let him run more without waiting for everyone else. 

Great idea. If it goes to plan we should only lose 2-0.

[S-Clarke]

4 hours ago, Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan said:

We need to concede less and score more, which is fairly obvious really.

In terms of conceding less, the answer to me is simple, play with players in natural positions where they know their shape, and stop playing so much around the back, play out from the back by all means, but not between players. I'd play Bazunu (although his shot-stopping really does need improving still) in goal. At the moment the centre back pairing seems to be THB and Bednarek, and that I'd work with, but just try and give them some confidence in each other. Bednarek is an international with years of experience, he needs to be commanding the defence, telling everyone around him where they need to be. Get him some proper defensive coaching (fuck knows how Martin was a centre back for so long based on how he wants ours to play) and tell THB to do what he did last year. KWP at right back, playing actual right back. He plays wide and overlaps when possible, and then uses his pace to cover the ground back. He doesn't invert (he's tiny, he cannot play midfield in the championship) and he tracks runners like he used to. THB covers the back post for deep crosses so that KWP isn't exposed. Manning plays at left back, he doesn't invert either. He plays wide, overlaps but less expansively than KWP. Charles sits in front in a traditional holding midfield role, taking the ball from the defense and linking plays. He learnt at Man City so I want him forming little passing triangles with the centre back and full back, and then up the pitch. We play short from the back and spread the ball wide, then inside to midfield. We don't play across the box, we don't try and carry the ball out of defence, and we don't push the centre backs into midfield.

Then, in front of that, Downes partners Charles (think Cork and Schneiderlin vibes). He plays box-to-box, and should in theory be the metronome of the team (as we all wanted JWP to be) taking us up the pitch when needed. We probably suit a 10 in front of that, ideally Charly once he's in the right place mentally, if not maybe Stuart. We want someone who is comfortable taking the ball on the turn and driving at a defence but with purpose (not Arma's shit touches and mindless runs to nowhere). Ideally they're playing the left channel, between a wide left winger, a right winger who comes inside, and a striker (see below).

Ahead of that we need to be more direct and creative. Sadly most of our wide players seem to operate best on the left, but we can work with that. We play a wide left winger, who (because Manning isn't as expansive in my system) has the freedom of the left wing. Depending on form, I'd play one of Edozie, Sulemana or Fraser. Edozie and Sulemana are told to try and pin the right back of the opposition deep, go past them and be a nuisance. If it's Fraser I want him on the touchline, ready to get the ball, beat a man, and put it somewhere dangerous. The right winger is playing inside, allowing KWP to have the right wing when we attack which is where he's excellent. Not sure we have a player who fits this role particularly, until SAA has developed some more. His dribbling ability and left foot seem perfect for this role. Perhaps Fraser could do it too for a bit. Up top, we play Adams until Stewart is fit. The striker's role is to be a presence, hold the ball up for the players around him (Alcaraz, Downes, SAA) and then get into the box and be ready to finish off moves. You don't need to drop deep, or press excessively to wear yourself out, just be ready to score goals.

Against 90% of championship teams this should be enough to control a game, keep a strong defensive shape and attack with better direction and some intent.

On paper this team shouldn't have any problems, but as you've put above it's all about playing people in their natural positions and providing the structure around them. We're doing neither and no matter how good a player you are, if you're asked to do something you're not familiar with - with no structure around you - then you've got no chance to look any good. Add the fact that these guys are mainly young kids, it's a recipe for disaster.

When we last tried to experiment in the Championship it went horribly wrong under Port and Wotte - that was based on a philosophy of playing football with kids. They sunk.

When we became successful after that ill-fated experiment it was because we filled the side with Hammond, Harding, Jaidi, Lambert, Butterfield - proper experience through the spine, and didn't fart arse around with a philosophy - we just put players where they play. That allowed the kids from the previous season to grow inside a structure, and we saw Lallana, Morgan etc grow into the core of our side.

I have no doubts that Charles, Edozie, Larios, THB, Sulemana, Charly etc are really, really good young players - but we're not giving them a chance with how we're setting up.

Edited 25 September, 2023 by S-Clarke

[woodsaint1]

There is certainly merit in possession based football, but it needs to be done in the right areas. Considering we pay a lot of attention to what City do (arguably the best side at playing out from the back), surely we recognise that Ederson regularly sends it 50-60 yards when nothing is developing in their own third. If sides are pressing us very high, we need to be similarly adaptable to go long and start our possession that way. Perhaps Stewart will add that dimension. Separately, when City give it away in their own half they're exceptional at recovering as a team and getting back in a defensive shape. We're all at sea when we lose possession.

It only takes one mistake or an effective press from the opposition and we've conceded. Against well-drilled defensive sides (like Ipswich), that's game over. Players regularly make mistakes so we need to accept that they're going to happen, however it doesn't take a genius to work out that there is less risk losing it 50 yards out, as opposed to 25 yards out. If we're so confident in our possession approach, then we can do so from winning the ball in their half/around the halfway line.

[coalman]

Stop changing the team every week. I know some changes are forced but there's no chance for players to settle.

Play our three most dangerous players: Edozie, Alcaraz, Sulemana.

Downes and Charles in central midfield. For some modicum of protection.

Stop playing Holgate. Preferably send him back to Everton.

That would be a start. And if Bazunu hasn't stopped palming the ball to attackers or learned to jump get a new keeper in January (or sooner).

Then somehow get Stewart fit because Adams is still not the striker to lead our line.

[captainchris]

9 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Adam Armstrong has been our biggest ever disappointment in recent years for me compared to how often he has played. At least Carillo and tall Paul barely played a game befor leaving. I have to endure Adam Armstrong stinking out the place every single week now he's assured a place in the first eleven and is inexplicably captain. 

Totally! What a really crap player. Nothing else to add …. 

[Galway saint]

Baz has a weakness ( only one) with long range shots on his left side,so one thing the goal keeping coach could do is to get him to stand on the left hand side of the goal on Saturday. 

[Saint-Michael]

Sack the current manager and his staff,employ a new manager who plays his team to the best of there abilities playing a system the suits them,being able to make changes during a game that works better against an opponent.