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Saints 1-3 Bournemouth - Reaction


Lighthouse

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Can’t add much that hasn’t already been said - Ralph needs to take the blame for that, first half was an utter shambles, and how Vest continues to get picked is beyond me. Listening to Solent when I got back to the car Merrington was rightfully laying into Ralph for just chatting rubbish in his post match interview instead of holding his hands up to the poor team selection.

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Bottom line - we had 6 shots on goal and scored 1, they had 3 shots on goal and scored 3. Same old story, with better finishing we would have got something from the match.

 

Where did they take their shots from compared to ours? Hoj had that scrappy attempt that was bundled away by the post with about five defenders in the way, but other than that I think the others were all from outside the box. Bournemouth finished better, but they also cut us open to create far better chances. If King wore boots one size smaller and VAR had done its job with their penalty claim, we could easily have lost that 5-1 and it wouldn't have been undeserved.

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Within 5 minutes the whole stadium felt in agreement that Ralph completely ****ed it tonight. Felt sorry for Danso, absolutely shafted by the manager and can only assume it was his disagreement with Ralph on the touchline that meant he was hooked and not the awful Vestergaard. Very worrying that Ralph would pick Vest against a team that literally live for the counter attack at pace, very naive. I’m one of Cedric’s biggest critics too but even I felt sorry for him also, again completely stitched up by the manager, Danso had done a decent job at LB, why put two players out of position when one has already shown he can play there? And to be fair to Cedric, I thought he really put a shift in after half time and was one of our better performers.

 

What a difference Bertrand made, never has a substitution been so obvious so early on, seriously worrying that Ralph doesn’t want to play him, and you could see Bertie whispering to Stephens/Yoshida/Long whilst warming up, i’ll be shocked if he wasn’t criticising Ralph and the decision to leave him on the bench whilst our makeshift back 4 was getting pulled all over the place.

 

Romeu was superb, absolutely all over the pitch winning the ball back, mopping up, even tidying up after himself if he gave the ball away. I’ve been baffled by the love for Hojbjerg for a long time, tonight just proved yet again that he does not have the quality we need in CM. Romeu is the destroyer, JWP is the recycler, what is Hojbjerg? He’s not a box to box midfielder, he’s not a playmaker, he’s not a ball winner, he does nothing. I would say he runs around a lot, but even then I don’t actually think he does, and he has an awful habit of making a lazy tackle and completely giving up and letting runners go, his tracking at times is appalling, but nothing is quite as appalling as his passing. I reckon if you cut Prowsey’s legs off, he’d still pass the ball better than Hojbjerg. When he gestured to the Itchen to lift the noise in the second half I felt like running down to the pitch to tell him i’ll sing louder when you manage to pick out a single pass to a ****ing teammate, really wound me up. Bet he did a great interview after the game though.

 

But I don’t wish to blame the players tonight, and I feel like the crowd actually were fairly positive overall tonight and the noise was pretty good considering the first half performance. Tonight all falls at Ralph’s feet. He hasn’t done much wrong since he got here, tonight he well and truly ****ed it up.

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Shambles zonal marking at corners bar jwp who was on Billing, who the f*** decided that would be a good match up, Danso awful at wing/full back , whys he not playing alongside Bednarek or Yoshida, with our natural fullbacks where they should be, I like Adams and i think it will come although we shouldve bought in Jean kevin Augustin, Boufal and Redmond were bright sparks tonight and Cedric did well in his familiar role, really dont get Ralphs thinking , Bournemouths front 2 have pace which should mean no place for Vest, as a squad we are not good enough for this formation surely we would go to a 4231 with Gunn, Cedric, Danso, Bednarek, Bertrand,

Hoj, Romeo.... Djnepo, Boufal, Redmond, .... Adams. Possibly bit offensive for away games but then just bring in Jwp/Armstrong for 1 of the 3

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Agree with the many who've said that was totally down to the weird defensive setup.

 

I've got a lot of respect for Ralph, but the priority for every defensive player is to defend, and they've got a lot better chance of doing that in their proper positions. I'm struggling to understand the reluctance to play Yoshida and Bertrand, our two most experienced defenders. The second half line-up tonight looked balanced and sensible, except Yoshida would have been way better than Vestergaard.

 

Ralph seems hooked on thinking of the full/wing backs as attacking players, and also keeps trying to hammer square pegs into round holes in those positions. Danso may be a good CB, but so far we've seen he's not a LB or a RB. Cedric is a decent RB, a much weaker LB with no attacking potential as he always has to cut in onto his right foot. Vestergaard is 6'19" or something, but doesn't head the ball well, is slow and gets out of position. JWP and PEH have done a job at FB, but why? To try to get more attacking players into the team?

 

We have great attacking options. But we need a settled defence playing in their proper positions.

 

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Where did they take their shots from compared to ours? Hoj had that scrappy attempt that was bundled away by the post with about five defenders in the way, but other than that I think the others were all from outside the box. Bournemouth finished better, but they also cut us open to create far better chances. If King wore boots one size smaller and VAR had done its job with their penalty claim, we could easily have lost that 5-1 and it wouldn't have been undeserved.
It was offside, no argument, and never a penalty.

 

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We have a bit of an issue. We are very good at swarming the ball up the top end of the pitch but then we are too slow to capitalise on it. Then, if we don't manage to win the ball back, it's played through us or over us and we have half our team too far up the pitch. we are so open to the counter.

 

This wouldn't be as big an issue if we had some pace in defence but we don't. Vestegaard was absolutely dreadful last night and is one of the slowest CB's I've ever seen.

 

Couple that with the fact that we have a sub par attack and we are in trouble.

 

We should've been able to win that really. Bournemouth did nothing but give the ball away in the second half and they sat back and couldn't handle our pressing but not once dd I actually think we'd score. Ralph needs to have a word with our team and get them starting games in the way we finish them and not just against the big teams.

 

We have a decent manager that plays the right way but our shockingly dreadful recruitment over the last few years has cost us dearly and we now have a squad full of players that aren't good enough for anything other than surviving.

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Is it much of a comfort to prove so conclusively that we only deserved to lose 3-1?
Unlike yourself, I'm not happy at all that we lost. I just stated facts.

 

I had the dubious pleasure of travelling back last night on a train full of Bournemouth fans. Who were obviously very happy, but more than ready to say that on the basis of our second half, we deserved a draw.

 

If we'd started the game with the second half team, would have been a different story.

 

 

 

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We have a bit of an issue. We are very good at swarming the ball up the top end of the pitch but then we are too slow to capitalise on it. Then, if we don't manage to win the ball back, it's played through us or over us and we have half our team too far up the pitch. we are so open to the counter.

 

This wouldn't be as big an issue if we had some pace in defence but we don't. Vestegaard was absolutely dreadful last night and is one of the slowest CB's I've ever seen.

 

Couple that with the fact that we have a sub par attack and we are in trouble.

 

We should've been able to win that really. Bournemouth did nothing but give the ball away in the second half and they sat back and couldn't handle our pressing but not once dd I actually think we'd score. Ralph needs to have a word with our team and get them starting games in the way we finish them and not just against the big teams.

 

We have a decent manager that plays the right way but our shockingly dreadful recruitment over the last few years has cost us dearly and we now have a squad full of players that aren't good enough for anything other than surviving.

 

I tend to agree with your first two paragraphs. Why Yoshida and Bertrand aren't starting, I just don't know.

 

We don't have a sub-par attack. I'll accept the strikers aren't firing at the moment but Boufal, Djenepo and a fully fit Redmond will trouble teams.

 

Last night was nothing to do with not starting as we finished, or having the wrong attitude against a "lesser" team. We simply started with a confused defence and it was immediately obvious the team had no balance

 

Overall, we have the quality in the team to be comfortably mid table or better, but Ralph needs to get over his "creative" defensive selections and try putting round pegs in round holes.

 

Play a back four of Cedric (or Valery), Bednarek, Yoshida and Bertrand regularly and build a bit of defensive understanding. Add in Danso or Vestergaard in we need a five.

 

At it is at the moment, we're getting different selections every game with half the players out of position.

 

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If we'd started the game with the second half team, would have been a different story.

 

Nail on head. The defence looked so much more in control after HT when we had players being played in their correct positions. It's really not rocket science.

 

I can understand Ralph wanting to experiment with different ideas, but he needs to recognise much sooner when it isn't working. That was a winnable game last night, and he has to take full responsibility for us not getting anything out of it.

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The problem with Hoj is that we can really only afford one immobile defensive midfielder, and Romeu has that spot sewn up on merit - he's far better at winning the ball back. Hoj just isn't outstanding in any area - he's not mobile enough to be a nuisance, strong enough to dominate or technical enough for the game to run through him. He's a solid utility player, but easily shown up by opponents with a better blend of qualities in their midfield partnership.

 

This is why it was utterly negligent to get rid of Lemina and Reed with no replacement. Those two have no competition and doubtless both will get suspended / injured over the season.

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Bournemouth didn't win last night as much as Ralph lost it. With a small handful of exceptions we're not a very good team and without Dejenepo scoring great solo goals we would be in a relegation fight already. But what the hell wad Ralph thinking about with that defensive set up ????? Play your best players in their best positions FFS

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Can’t add much that hasn’t already been said - Ralph needs to take the blame for that, first half was an utter shambles, and how Vest continues to get picked is beyond me. Listening to Solent when I got back to the car Merrington was rightfully laying into Ralph for just chatting rubbish in his post match interview instead of holding his hands up to the poor team selection.
What did he say was the reason for our hammering out of interest?

 

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Bournemouth didn't win last night as much as Ralph lost it. With a small handful of exceptions we're not a very good team and without Dejenepo scoring great solo goals we would be in a relegation fight already. But what the hell wad Ralph thinking about with that defensive set up ????? Play your best players in their best positions FFS

 

Starting to doubt RH tactical nous quite agree players and best players Bertie and Yoshi should’ve been on at start VesteguRd far to immobile and generally a hearing disaster.

 

 

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Not really surprised when we haven’t solved last years defensive issues.

 

We have changed in that we press a lot more but we still don't move the ball fast enough and you can see players holding the ball until people move rather than instinctive moving.

 

We seem to play as a group of individual talent rather than team talent. I don’t believe we have changed enough from last year to make us different this year. All being exasperated by playing players out of position.

 

Playing at home also requires a different approach and strategy and don’t think Ralph has got this right yet.

 

Sadly think we have more of this to come

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I think everyone agrees that we look utterly unbalanced without a recognised leftback (and right) playing and I if RH doesn’t see it then he is clearly needs a white stick.

 

I can only think that he has a longer term reason for a short term weakness in our side. Maybe he is sending a message to the squad that no one can feel comfortable in the team unless they are following his exact instructions.

 

Berty hasn’t looked the player of old for at least 18 months and maybe that’s due to motivation, desire, attitude or character. Showing him and the squad that he will favour players that offer the heart and fight above talent alone sets a message to the squad. Second half Berty looked more like the player we know he can be and maybe it’s needed some time out to show him that RH means business.

 

Look how he binned hoedt with no real second chance, how boufal seems to have transformed his attitude and how valery has been dropped for a improved attitude from Cedric.

 

Ultimately I think RH is building a team and takes no Shyte if your not in for the ride under his terms. Short term loss for long term gain.

 

The real mistake is letting Targett go without having anyone decent to push bertrand to excel.

 

In summary, i can see the issue but choose to believe RH sees it as well and is playing a longer game.

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Got to a first for this place - unanimous on this week's scapegoat.

 

RH has to take the blame for this one. Any PL match, let alone one with the chance to go third, is *not* the time to be experimenting. Even more so after he saw how quickly he needed to change things last week.

 

Hopefully he is now clear in his mind on one thing. However he *wants* to play, he needs to accept that with current personnel our best defence is Cedric/Valery Yoshida Bednarek Bertrand and they should be starting every game when fit. And unless the opposition tactics deliberately restrict the forward runs of the 2 full backs, that's still one of our best attacking options too.

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Ralph picked the wrong team, period. Howe outthought him as he played 4 forwards and the team were are tall and strong. We were so at a disadvantage at set pieces and of course all the long balls were easily cut out.

To be fair they were 2nd best until their goal which relaxed them, of course Danso being totally out of the comfort zone caused us problems and the 2nd goal duly came that gave them plenty of time to relax.

2nd half with a proper balance we did what we should have from the start. They were rocking but we couldn't get the 2nd goal that would have set us up for perhaps a win.

I cant see why the hate of Vest, I dont think he was at fault for any of the goals. Boufal worked hard and looked dangerous, Redmond always causing them trouble, Romeau superb. Adams tried his hardest but needs a goal. Frankly we need a target man like Pelle for our skills and play to take advantage of,as we aren't going to get much change with crosses.

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Just had a chat with my cousin (Bournemouth fan). He thought we were the better side overall and that Bournemouth were hanging on in the second half.

 

Disclaimer: yes, I know it's the result that counts, my fellow Saintsweb chums

 

Wow strange opinion. Yes we dominated the 2nd period but only because they sat back and let us come onto them without us ever looking like scoring. First half they were streaks ahead and looked so much coherent than us. A positive for me was Boufal who worked his socks off and tried to be creative but we have problems all over the field at the moment. Shaky keeper, long-standing central defensive issues, a turgid midfield (Romeu excluded - he had a stormer) and a forward line who need introducing to each other. Our one asset, the manager has had a brain storm in the selection department and seems to have developed a stubborn alter ego. Other than that everything is hunky dory.

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Wow strange opinion. Yes we dominated the 2nd period but only because they sat back and let us come onto them without us ever looking like scoring. First half they were streaks ahead and looked so much coherent than us. A positive for me was Boufal who worked his socks off and tried to be creative but we have problems all over the field at the moment. Shaky keeper, long-standing central defensive issues, a turgid midfield (Romeu excluded - he had a stormer) and a forward line who need introducing to each other. Our one asset, the manager has had a brain storm in the selection department and seems to have developed a stubborn alter ego. Other than that everything is hunky dory.

 

"Without us ever looking like scoring" - Indeed. Apart from the time we did score of course. And the last ditch block to deny Redmond's shot that was going in. And JWP's scuffed attempt from Ings's pull back when a half decent connection would have been a goal. And the volley from Cedric's cross he put just over that he should have scored from. And the 22 other attempts we had on goal, several of which their keeper made good stops from. But yeah, apart from that, never ever looked like scoring....

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Wow strange opinion. Yes we dominated the 2nd period but only because they sat back and let us come onto them without us ever looking like scoring. First half they were streaks ahead and looked so much coherent than us. A positive for me was Boufal who worked his socks off and tried to be creative but we have problems all over the field at the moment. Shaky keeper, long-standing central defensive issues, a turgid midfield (Romeu excluded - he had a stormer) and a forward line who need introducing to each other. Our one asset, the manager has had a brain storm in the selection department and seems to have developed a stubborn alter ego. Other than that everything is hunky dory.

 

this, exactly right

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"Without us ever looking like scoring" - Indeed. Apart from the time we did score of course. And the last ditch block to deny Redmond's shot that was going in. And JWP's scuffed attempt from Ings's pull back when a half decent connection would have been a goal. And the volley from Cedric's cross he put just over that he should have scored from. And the 22 other attempts we had on goal, several of which their keeper made good stops from. But yeah, apart from that, never ever looked like scoring....
We didn't seriously trouble there keeper once. All straight forward saves. So on that basis we didn't look like scoring

 

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My theory for what it’s worth is Ralph is trying to build a team that can be flexible playing out of position. He made that comment during the summer that we could have a tough season but we would see the results next season.

I kinda get that but the Premier League is a merciless League and he doesn’t have the luxury of experimenting most of the season.

The players aren’t bad they are just confused by his decisions. IMO he should build a team that is comfortable with itself and then start tinkering about.

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Poor team selection from RH with better players left on the bench. Championship level defence and striking options. Players played out position.

 

Bournemouth have built gradually and sensibly, retaining a good fit Manager to the point where they now have a better squad more suited to the Prem. Yes, make no mistake, they won because they are better in attack and defence - they deserved to win that game hands down.

 

Beat Pompey Tuesday and we can hopefully move on. Lose and a lot of love for Ralph will evaporate from the fan base. Worse still it will make a big dent in the fragile confidence of this squad.

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Wow strange opinion. Yes we dominated the 2nd period but only because they sat back and let us come onto them without us ever looking like scoring. First half they were streaks ahead and looked so much coherent than us. A positive for me was Boufal who worked his socks off and tried to be creative but we have problems all over the field at the moment. Shaky keeper, long-standing central defensive issues, a turgid midfield (Romeu excluded - he had a stormer) and a forward line who need introducing to each other. Our one asset, the manager has had a brain storm in the selection department and seems to have developed a stubborn alter ego. Other than that everything is hunky dory.

 

Never looked like scoring although we did. Whilst we didn’t have many clear cut chances maybe ward prowess hitting the target and not row Z would have changed the Schreiner a little, no?

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Utterly disgusting performance. I never want to see Vestergaard in a Saints shirt again. Cedric puts in a slightly better performance than usual and suddenly he's amazing despite said performance still just being average. Bertrand came on and did nothing and we wonder why Ralph doesn't like him, PEH and JWP were both diabolical.

 

Romeo, Boufal, Redmond all very good. Adams did okay but got no service.

 

If we smash P*mpey then I'll happily look back at this and laugh but for now, not good at all.

 

I assume you didn't go to watch the game at St Mary's then. Cedric & Bertrand were superb in their proper positions second half. You need to stop hating these players and see what is really happening rather than what your blinkered vision wants to see. You are right about Vestergaard 'though.

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poor finishing.

If JWP had finished just a couple of his chances things would look so different today. We would have said Ralph you got it wrong in the first half but the intricate football won us the game. I really didnt think Bournemouth were that good. We gifted them the first goal that gave them the confidence to hold us off, add to that their determination not to let us score.

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Romeu was superb, absolutely all over the pitch winning the ball back, mopping up, even tidying up after himself if he gave the ball away. I’ve been baffled by the love for Hojbjerg for a long time, tonight just proved yet again that he does not have the quality we need in CM. Romeu is the destroyer, JWP is the recycler, what is Hojbjerg? He’s not a box to box midfielder, he’s not a playmaker, he’s not a ball winner, he does nothing. I would say he runs around a lot, but even then I don’t actually think he does, and he has an awful habit of making a lazy tackle and completely giving up and letting runners go, his tracking at times is appalling, but nothing is quite as appalling as his passing. I reckon if you cut Prowsey’s legs off, he’d still pass the ball better than Hojbjerg. When he gestured to the Itchen to lift the noise in the second half I felt like running down to the pitch to tell him i’ll sing louder when you manage to pick out a single pass to a ****ing teammate, really wound me up. Bet he did a great interview after the game though.

 

 

I'm of the same opinion when it comes to Hojbjerg, and have been for a while. In the build up to their first goal he was slow to react to Billing bursting down the middle and then gave up chasing him. That goal is, in large measure, down to him. Romeu - who I thought was washed up - has been outperforming him in every game that I've seen this season.

 

BUT, to be fair, his pass to Adams in the build up to our goal was great. It was sharp and incisive and bypassed their midfield.

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Ok, so you only look like scoring if the keeper makes great saves - got you..... :rolleyes:

 

Based on your "appreciation" of football, I'd say under Puel we won every game, every league, everything. Based on simply reading what you've written you not only fail to make a convincing argument but more seem to actually support the counter-argument that you dislike.

 

Shots that go 200 feet over the bar all the time might count as shots but otherwise are a hazard for low-flying aircraft rather than the goalkeeper. A daisy-cutter is not a good chance but an opportunity for the the opposition fans to take the **** out of the effort. Etcetera.

 

Sheffield United had more, better chances than we did. They also had David McGoaldrought. Bournemouth had far fewer chances, slacked off in the second half, but were capable of scoring and we didn't so much play offside for King's ruled-out goal as lose the player and let him get it wrong. I assume that's why Long isn't playing: the VAR highlights of him being offside would double the length of the game.

 

We played a middle of the rang side who played badly in the second half and overall we were worse where it mattered (both boxes, as always). That's it.

 

As for the comment about having a team that can play in multiple ways, that's not so much of a new thing and Eddie Howe does it as do many others so it's nothing special and nor should it be with professional footballers unless they really can't do a bloody thing without someone else pulling their strings (and they can on the continent, so why are footballers in this country then so different?).

 

 

If we do need to experiment, get 3-0 up and do it in the last 20 mins like we used to do when introducing youth players into the fold.

 

I had hoped for and expected a draw as we aren't particularly good so the defeat wasn't too much of a surprise. Let's win easily on Tuesday and this result will be forgotten.

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Strangely following a defeat, a lot of decent and insightful posts here, highlighting specifics rather than writing us off as being unlucky or terrible.

 

Although I thought we looked a lot better in the second half (both better than our first half performance and better than Bournemouth), Bournemouth were a lot more effective at keeping us at arm's length. We always looked on the edge of creating something, but more often than not that ended up with a shot from distance, or a blocked shot. Whether or not they were prepared to let us have the ball 25 yards from goal is debatable, but they were certainly more organised when it came to preventing that final ball. That's what concerns me about our defence - too often there are scenarios where the opposition players just run and run without anyone getting near them and then they also have acres of space to pass into. Sometimes it is because we are hit on the counter attack, but not always. Is it because we push so many forward that we are left exposed? Find it hard to believe that's the case with three CBs.

 

Theory on Romeu - and it is just a hypothesis, as I think he's great - is there a case that he tends to look good when the rest of the team are struggling, or when we are playing better teams, simply because he has more defensive work to do? A bit like how a goalkeeper in a poor side often looks good because he has lots of shots to save. I also think he tends to play better when he is a solitary DM rather than as one of two, perhaps because he is necessarily involved more. Don't get me wrong, if that is the case then that's still a good reason to play him, but I still worry about the two or three times he fails to track his runner from midfield in a match, which often proves costly.

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