Saints 1-1 Chelsea- Match Thread

[cloggy saint]

15 minutes ago, aintforever said:

If KWP is out it's hard to see anything other than a comfortable Chelsea win.

If KWP is not out It's hard to see anything other than a comfortable Chelsea win too.

[qwertyell]

4 hours ago, eelpie said:

Why don't you go and support Portsmaouth?

Is no-one allowed to point out that we're in relegation form, and that it's not ideal?

Last 11 games: 1 win, 3 draws, 7 defeats. Goals for: 6. Goals against: 22.

 

[Charlie Wayman]

5 hours ago, skintsaint said:

Chelsea due a loss ...we are due a win. 2-1.......Ings double. No real logic to my prediction.

You of all people clutching at straws. You are usually very logical so what caused this flip?

[Charlie Wayman]

3 hours ago, qwertyell said:

Is no-one allowed to point out that we're in relegation form, and that it's not ideal?

Last 11 games: 1 win, 3 draws, 7 defeats. Goals for: 6. Goals against: 22.

 

Of course they are. Not sure what was running through eelpie's head when he wrote that, it has not the slightest connection to PFC

[Micky]

5 hours ago, skintsaint said:

Chelsea due a loss ...we are due a win. 2-1.......Ings double. No real logic to my prediction.

You're not wrong there...!

[Simon3737]

10 hours ago, qwertyell said:

Is no-one allowed to point out that we're in relegation form, and that it's not ideal?

Last 11 games: 1 win, 3 draws, 7 defeats. Goals for: 6. Goals against: 22.

 

To be positive, that’s 6 points from 11 games. If we were to keep that form up for the remaining 15 games we’d get 8 more points (6x15/11) and finish with 37.

Pretty sure we’d stay up on that this season. I think we’ll get over this blip though and finish much better than that.

[northam soul]

1 hour ago, Simon3737 said:

To be positive, that’s 6 points from 11 games. If we were to keep that form up for the remaining 15 games we’d get 8 more points (6x15/11) and finish with 37.

Pretty sure we’d stay up on that this season. I think we’ll get over this blip though and finish much better than that.

Ah but, six defeats in a row.

if we keep that form up that’s 0x15 and we finish with 29 points.

That we will not stay up with.

Disclaimer- In no way does the author of this post believe we will get 0 points from now until the end of the season.

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, northam soul said:

Ah but, six defeats in a row.

if we keep that form up that’s 0x15 and we finish with 29 points.

That we will not stay up with.

Disclaimer- In no way does the author of this post believe we will get 0 points from now until the end of the season.

“Past performance is no indication of future performance”

Yeah, right.

[Chickendippers]

I think we will nick it 1-0. Stephens will play well (defensively) at RB and we'll score from a corner or a set-piece.

Forster (he will pick mcarthy)

Stephens Bednarek Vest Bretrand

JWP Rom

Mini Stu

Ings Adams/Redz

(I want Adams, he will play Redmond)

Tella on for Minimino on 70 mins

Adams on for Redmond on 75 mins

No injuries.

[beatlesaint]

I don’t understand where Ralph has suddenly got this idea from that Redmond can play as a striker, has he been speaking to Puel? 🤣

The whole Redmond thing is a puzzle, when he came back from injury he was on the bench, even at Old Trafford when he had been back a while and we were scrabbling for fit players. Then all of a sudden he’s front and centre and key to how we set up !

[Saint Garrett]

38 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

I don’t understand where Ralph has suddenly got this idea from that Redmond can play as a striker, has he been speaking to Puel? 🤣

The whole Redmond thing is a puzzle, when he came back from injury he was on the bench, even at Old Trafford when he had been back a while and we were scrabbling for fit players. Then all of a sudden he’s front and centre and key to how we set up !

Not sure whether it's more to do with the fact Adams needs a rest, or just isn't scoring, so trying something else, but personally I thought Adams wasn't playing badly. I like Redmond's energy, and the fact he wants to get in behind, but we have Ings that can do that, and we are missing Adams hold up play IMO. I want to see Adams back in the starting line up this weekend

[LiberalCommunist]

Got a cloud of foreboding dread hanging over me in regards to this game. 

Fully expecting us to start really well and then get screwed by var. 

I hope Tunchel has placed all his eggs in the Champions League basket. 

[Teddeer]

41 minutes ago, LiberalCommunist said:

Got a cloud of foreboding dread hanging over me in regards to this game. 

Fully expecting us to start really well and then get screwed by var. 

I hope Tunchel has placed all his eggs in the Champions League basket. 

Chelsea will be wanting to finish in the top 4.

[Toussaint]

2 hours ago, Chickendippers said:

I think we will nick it 1-0. Stephens will play well (defensively) at RB and we'll score from a corner or a set-piece.

Forster (he will pick mcarthy)

Stephens Bednarek Vest Bretrand

JWP Rom

Mini Stu

Ings Adams/Redz

(I want Adams, he will play Redmond)

Tella on for Minimino on 70 mins

Adams on for Redmond on 75 mins

No injuries.

Note to self, get Valium / electroconvulsive therapy 

[Teddeer]

Time to play ugly for a while. Do whatever it takes to get some points on the board and make it as hard as possible for opponents to break us down. For whatever reason, whether it is tiredness, confidence, injuries or a combination the press is not working. Let's try something different.

[Toussaint]

44 minutes ago, LiberalCommunist said:

Got a cloud of foreboding dread hanging over me in regards to this game. 

Fully expecting us to start really well and then get screwed by var. 

I hope Tunchel has placed all his eggs in the Champions League basket. 

Don't think we'll need VAR to screw us, they have superior players in almost every position. They'll have to have an off day and we will need to be at our best, like Liverpool at home. 

[danjosaint]

Does Ralph know any different 

[Teddeer]

4 minutes ago, danjosaint said:

Does Ralph know any different 

The definition of insanity is to keep doing what you're doing and expect a different result. The press is not yielding results, not even draws.

[Mr X]

32 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

The definition of insanity is to keep doing what you're doing and expect a different result. The press is not yielding results, not even draws.

But it's all the players know, where is Ralph going to get a plan b from? 

[Teddeer]

33 minutes ago, Mr X said:

But it's all the players know, where is Ralph going to get a plan b from? 

Big Fraser in goal, two tight banks of four and two up front. Easy.

Edited 17 February, 2021 by Teddeer

[supersonic]

I wonder if we go to a 3/5 at the back with wingbacks? (I appreciate I am being optimistic here by expecting Ralph to have a Plan B but one can only hope).

----------------------FF*-------------------------

-------JB------------JV----------------MS------

SA--------------------------------------------RB

-----------JWP----------------OR---------------

TM-------------------------------------------MD

----------------------DI-------------------------

 

or

----------------------FF*-------------------------

-------JB------------JV--------------RB----------

----------------------OR--------------------------

-----------JWP----------------AJ---------------

SA-------------------TM----------------------MD

----------------------DI-------------------------

 

*also acknowledge I'm being hopeful that McCarthy won't play.

[jamesfp1]

Feeling positive about this one, against all sense and logic, we will win 2-1. HTH.

[SaintZamboni]

3 hours ago, Teddeer said:

The definition of insanity is to keep doing what you're doing and expect a different result. The press is not yielding results, not even draws.

So logic suggests that when we were winning and playing well we were doing the right thing and no need to change.

Why then won’t it correct itself with some tweaking?

[captainchris]

9 minutes ago, SaintZamboni said:

So logic suggests that when we were winning and playing well we were doing the right thing and no need to change.

Why then won’t it correct itself with some tweaking?

This is an interesting point, However, the problems seem to be arising in the second half mostly when we stop pressing, stop passing, stop running, and start aimlessly drifting.... 

[Teddeer]

16 minutes ago, SaintZamboni said:

So logic suggests that when we were winning and playing well we were doing the right thing and no need to change.

Why then won’t it correct itself with some tweaking?

That's what Ralph is paid a lot of money to sort out.

[Toussaint]

15 minutes ago, captainchris said:

This is an interesting point, However, the problems seem to be arising in the second half mostly when we stop pressing, stop passing, stop running, and start aimlessly drifting.... 

....when we run out of steam, fatigue sets in  compounded by the niggling injuries players are playing through catch up?  Further compounded by the opposition knowing we will burn out and biding their time. It occurred to me when Klopp first took over at Liverpool they played at a frenetic pace and rain out of steam quite early, he ended up having to slow things down a bit to suit the marathon that is a premier league season. 

Edited 17 February, 2021 by Toussaint

[Teddeer]

Whatever we do I still think it will take a miracle for one of the current bottom 3 to escape relegation.

[Teddeer]

Maybe even go 5 at the back;

Forster

Ramsey Bednarek Vestergaard Salisu Bertrand

Armstrong Ward-Prowse Romeu Redmond

Ings

 

Bednarek, Armstrong and Ward-Prowse to help out and cover Ramsey.

Edited 17 February, 2021 by Teddeer

[Shroppie]

1 hour ago, Teddeer said:

Maybe even go 5 at the back;

Forster

Ramsey Bednarek Vestergaard Salisu Bertrand

Armstrong Ward-Prowse Romeu Redmond

Ings

 

Bednarek, Armstrong and Ward-Prowse to help out and cover Ramsey.

Last time we tried 3/5 at the back and ditched Ralph's philosophy, we built up to the Leicester 0-9. 

That's when he had a reboot and got back to what he believes in. Which is what we should stick with now. A week's rest between games will make a big difference.

[Matthew Le God]

3 minutes ago, Shroppie said:

Last time we tried 3/5 at the back and ditched Ralph's philosophy, we built up to the Leicester 0-9. 

The last time was actually in the 2nd half vs Wolves at the weekend. 

[Scallysaint]

Ralph won’t change formation. He will be struggling to fix the right back issue but he won’t change formation. I’m guessing Stephens goes in there. 
 

 

[Mr X]

5 hours ago, Teddeer said:

Big Fraser in goal, two tight banks of four and two up front. Easy.

That's a formation not a game plan 

[Teddeer]

44 minutes ago, Mr X said:

That's a formation not a game plan 

Two tight banks of four is the game plan in case you missed it.

[sydenhamssocks]

3 hours ago, Teddeer said:

Whatever we do I still think it will take a miracle for one of the current bottom 3 to escape relegation.

Fulham 6 points behind Newcastle with 14 games to play... that’s an achievable miracle if ever there was one 

[StrangelyBrown]

It pains me to say this, but against Chelsea I think we should go back to playing the majority of the game against the ball and hitting them on the break rather than the dominate the hell out of possession until we run out of steam approach that hasn't been working since the backs the wall performance against Liverpool. It would be ugly, but we need to try and keep a clean sheet, build some confidence in defence and then look to push on once we've picked up a point or two.

For me it is more about approach than formation or personnel.

Edited 17 February, 2021 by StrangelyBrown
Typo

[BotleySaint]

6 minutes ago, StrangelyBrown said:

It pains me to say this, but against Chelsea I think we should go back to playing the majority of the game against the ball and hitting them on the break rather than the dominate the hell out of possession until we run out of steam approach that hasn't been working...

For me it is more about approach than formation or personnel.

I agree we need a change in approach. Can't see Ralph doing that though. His whole ethos is one of hard work and pressing. Have we ever played differently?

[Matthew Le God]

2 hours ago, Scallysaint said:

Ralph won’t change formation. He will be struggling to fix the right back issue but he won’t change formation. I’m guessing Stephens goes in there. 
 

 

He did vs Wolves

[StrangelyBrown]

39 minutes ago, BotleySaint said:

I agree we need a change in approach. Can't see Ralph doing that though. His whole ethos is one of hard work and pressing. Have we ever played differently?

From what I've seen we seem to have 2 game plans, one where we accept we're not having the ball and press but play cautiously and hit the opposition on the break. The other is very similar but we dominate possession and the focus is more on the ball than against it.

[LaptopSaint]

18 minutes ago, StrangelyBrown said:

From what I've seen we seem to have 2 game plans, one where we accept we're not having the ball and press but play cautiously and hit the opposition on the break. The other is very similar but we dominate possession and the focus is more on the ball than against it.

Agreed - and it needs to be plan A against Chelsea, nick a first half goal and then hold it. Like against the dippers. Simple.

[Saint Garrett]

57 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

He did vs Wolves

Only because we were losing. And to keep more attacking players on the pitch. We will absolutely be 4222 on Saturday. As we should be. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

1 hour ago, Saint Garrett said:

Only because we were losing. And to keep more attacking players on the pitch. We will absolutely be 4222 on Saturday. As we should be. 

As we should be? That’s why we’ll end up losing...Ralph is proving to be a bit too one dimensional in his tactics. If it were me I’d start Ings up top and pack the midfield to help protect a weak defence while still operating a high press when out of possession. Most of all though I would instruct the team to attack with more speed whenever possible and not to fanny around with the ball in and around our penalty area...just get rid into row ZZ if necessary.  Screw the attempts at 60% possession...that’s not going to work against Chelski with confidence so low in the squad, so let them make the mistakes which we can try to capitalise on.

Yeah ok, we’re going to lose and by some considerable margin probably, but why not try something different?

[Far que]

WE WILL SCORE FIRST then find a way to lose,typical saints display.

[Chris cooper]

6 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

As we should be? That’s why we’ll end up losing...Ralph is proving to be a bit too one dimensional in his tactics. If it were me I’d start Ings up top and pack the midfield to help protect a weak defence while still operating a high press when out of possession. Most of all though I would instruct the team to attack with more speed whenever possible and not to fanny around with the ball in and around our penalty area...just get rid into row ZZ if necessary.  Screw the attempts at 60% possession...that’s not going to work against Chelski with confidence so low in the squad, so let them make the mistakes which we can try to capitalise on.

Yeah ok, we’re going to lose and by some considerable margin probably, but why not try something different?

Packing the midfield is wot he should have done at old Trafford.. 4-5-1 .. players behind the ball but nope went with that inexperienced line up and the trusted 4-4-2/4-2-2-2..Spuds Looking at Ralph apparently wen/if Jose is sacked ! Prepare for 4-2-2-2 in every game even wen your losing 11-0 to some 3rd ranked league side the other side of Israel ..but ofcourse it’s the formation just unlucky with var and injuries.. don’t think spuds fans will buy that one Ralph ! 

[SNSUN]

Against Arsenal in the cup and Liverpool in the league, we got the first goal and defended it resolutely for a 1-0 win. That would be the key to winning this game IMO, get the first goal and defend it. Chelsea are much better under Tuchel than Lampard (unsurprisingly as they have one of the best squads on paper and were underachieving) but they are still not the finished article.

Yes I'd take a draw. I've been saying that a lot lately!

I know Ralph favours McCarthy but I would start Forster against Chelsea, to see if it can solid things up a bit at the back.

Forster, Stephens, Bednarek, Vestergaard, Bertrand, JWP, Romeu, Armstrong, Minamino, Ings, Adams would be my starting XI but who knows what Ralph will choose, especially with another match 3 days later. He seems to favour Redmond of late.

[Charlie Wayman]

16 hours ago, SaintZamboni said:

So logic suggests that when we were winning and playing well we were doing the right thing and no need to change.

Why then won’t it correct itself with some tweaking?

Tosh! Things weren't the same at all. We had a bucket full of injuries to our best players and we had to field half a team of inexperienced and largely ineffective B team players. Even now we are not fully up to strength  - Diallo, Walcott, Walker Peters. This led to a collapse of our automatism on which Ralph's tactics depend.

 

[Shroppie]

14 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

The last time was actually in the 2nd half vs Wolves at the weekend. 

Indeed, that's true. Turned out well.

[trousers]

Unless Ralph's had enough time on the training field this week to instill new 'automatisms' into the players, I would stick with our tried-and-tested formation and tactics. To me, the risks of trying a new system for the first time in 18 months outweigh the risks of sticking with a system that has served us well in the past, albeit one that hasn't withstood the strains placed upon it by injuries very well; but I still think, on balance, we should persevere with it.

[Toussaint]

6 minutes ago, trousers said:

Unless Ralph's had enough time on the training field this week to instill new 'automatisms' into the players, I would stick with our tried-and-tested formation and tactics. To me, the risks of trying a new system for the first time in 18 months outweigh the risks of sticking with a system that has served us well in the past, albeit one that hasn't withstood the strains placed upon it by injuries very well; but I still think, on balance, we should persevere with it.

Shouldn't be that big a deal, many teams change formations and tactics during a game, he's had a week to work on it. Don't forget this drop off on form / scoring started before the injury crisis,  there has been plenty of time to work on alternative formations and tactics when it first became apparent plan a was becoming less effective

[Teddeer]

23 minutes ago, trousers said:

Unless Ralph's had enough time on the training field this week to instill new 'automatisms' into the players, I would stick with our tried-and-tested formation and tactics. To me, the risks of trying a new system for the first time in 18 months outweigh the risks of sticking with a system that has served us well in the past, albeit one that hasn't withstood the strains placed upon it by injuries very well; but I still think, on balance, we should persevere with it.

Professional footballers should be capable of quickly adapting to a new formation. Besides, they should be regularly trying out various formations in training rather than relying on one system.

Edited 18 February, 2021 by Teddeer

[SaveloyMush]

35 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

Professional footballers should be capable of quickly adapting to a new formation. Besides, they should be regularly trying out various formations in training rather than relying on one system.

And therein lies the problem. The Saints playbook must be a single side of A4!