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Everton vs Saints - Match Thread

Chapel End

By Chapel End,
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woodsaint1

woodsaint1

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

Who really has a team with more than one or two academy players in it, in this league? The vast majority don’t make it, that’s always been the case at every club.

I've said the exact same on another thread. We're lucky if we get 1 every other year who is good enough to make it at PL level. You're hardly going to know that though if you're putting square pegs in round holes as opposed to giving them a chance. Jankewitz should be given the chance tomorrow, not Stephens

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Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
57 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

I've said the exact same on another thread. We're lucky if we get 1 every other year who is good enough to make it at PL level. You're hardly going to know that though if you're putting square pegs in round holes as opposed to giving them a chance. Jankewitz should be given the chance tomorrow, not Stephens

Monday 8pm?

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macca155

macca155

Posted
Posted

We really shouldn't be debating about Stephens. He is experienced, certainly not useless, and he is needed. That doesn't mean he is the chosen one, far from it. I've always liked his attitude but something is amiss this year, we can all see that.

If he does get a chance at RB, then it is going to be last chance saloon.

Playing him in midfield is very risky, it could work, but I don't think he has the pace for that position. He would be a strong enforcer there so it isn't without merits.

However, Jankewitz has to be given another chance. He is the future. We'll probably lose so make it a low key game for Alex. Chance for him to establish himself.

Whatever happens, it needs to be a step towards a season long solution. No more patchwork.

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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, woodsaint1 said:

I've said the exact same on another thread. We're lucky if we get 1 every other year who is good enough to make it at PL level. You're hardly going to know that though if you're putting square pegs in round holes as opposed to giving them a chance. Jankewitz should be given the chance tomorrow, not Stephens

The people who watch them every day in training clearly think otherwise. Valery and Vokins were thought of as two of the better options and yet the former especially has looked like a fish up a tree for many of his first team appearances. Throwing kids in to see if they’re good enough will just end up with more Jamie Whites and Olly Lancashires.

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egg

egg

Posted
Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

The people who watch them every day in training clearly think otherwise. Valery and Vokins were thought of as two of the better options and yet the former especially has looked like a fish up a tree for many of his first team appearances. Throwing kids in to see if they’re good enough will just end up with more Jamie Whites and Olly Lancashires.

You completely overlook that after being watched in training and B team games, that Jankewitz was felt good enough to start at Old Trafford. Forget talking about Vokins and Valery, they're gone, the issue here is Jankewitz playing in midfield rather than a defender out of position. 

Edited by egg
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WALK DMC

WALK DMC

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, egg said:

You completely overlook that after being watched in training and B team games, that Jankewitz was felt good enough to start at Old Trafford. Forget talking about Vokins and Valery, they're gone, the issue here is Jankewitz playing in midfield rather than a defender out of position. 

You make a good point, but it should also be remembered that Salisu and Vest were both injured for the 9-0, so playing Stephens in centre midfield instead of Jankewitz wasn't an option for Man U. We really were down to our bare bones so it was almost a case of "who is fit?".

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egg

egg

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, WALK DMC said:

You make a good point, but it should also be remembered that Salisu and Vest were both injured for the 9-0, so playing Stephens in centre midfield instead of Jankewitz wasn't an option for Man U. We really were down to our bare bones so it was almost a case of "who is fit?".

True, but It shouldn't be an option for Everton!! He's an average CB who can fill in at full back. If he's not felt good enough to cover RB, it'd be mind boggling if he's felt good enough for midfield. 

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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted (edited)

With all the injuries I think we've got to reinforce the midfield and play it quite cagey, like we did against Chelsea. We still have a chance of grabbing a goal with JWP, Vesty and Ings in the team.

I'd go with:

--‐-------------Big Mc-------------

----Bednarek----Vest----Salisu----

Djenepo - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bertrand 

- - - - - - - JWP- - - Jankewitz- - - - 

- - -- - - - - - Armstrong - - - - - - - 

- - - - - Ings- - - - - Adams

Edited by benjii
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WALK DMC

WALK DMC

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, egg said:

True, but It shouldn't be an option for Everton!! He's an average CB who can fill in at full back. If he's not felt good enough to cover RB, it'd be mind boggling if he's felt good enough for midfield. 

My feeling is that for whatever reason Ralph just doesn't trust Jankewitz - and I mean that from before Man U. He didn't get selected for Shrewsbury when "less senior" reserves played in midfield.  I haven't seen enough of Jankewitz to know why, but there does appear to be a reason why Ralph is worried about using him. As I mentioned previously we were desperate against Man U just to get 11 players so there just wasn't any other real option. 

I agree with your assessment of Stephens abilities, but I suspect that in a one-off game (hopefully Diallo will be back soon), Ralph may decide to go with an individual with  premier experience rather than a complete novice who he doesn't trust. I don't think either option is particularly palatable, but I guess Ralph gets well paid for making difficult decisions.  I believe that Jack has played as defensive midfielder when he was on loan (Swindon ?), but I'm not sure that it was particularly successful, as I've only ever seen him the back line over the recent past.

I think its a no-win decision; I don't feel confident of any sort of a result whoever is played, my hope is focused on the return of Diallo and KWP. But sometimes football turns up some strange surprises, so you never know, maybe Jack or Jankewitz will have a stormer on Monday.  Fingers crossed.

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JRM

JRM

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Appy said:

Twice. 
 

What’s that got to do with whether I would prefer a midfielder in midfield to a defender?

Please don't tell me the 'twice' is last 5 mins home to Shrewsbury and the 2 mins at Old Trafford 🙄

I'm not against him playing, but I've watched u23s a few times and he hasn't really stood out. Maybe you're just anti Stephens rather than pro Jankewitz. 

Must have something about him but personally I'd trust Stephens more myself. 

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egg

egg

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, JRM said:

Please don't tell me the 'twice' is last 5 mins home to Shrewsbury and the 2 mins at Old Trafford 🙄

I'm not against him playing, but I've watched u23s a few times and he hasn't really stood out. Maybe you're just anti Stephens rather than pro Jankewitz. 

Must have something about him but personally I'd trust Stephens more myself. 

I've seen him in the u23's and he definitely stood out. In a good way. Strong, good positioning, gets his head up, passes forward and quickly, carries the ball forward well - generally a very good footballer.

What about his play didn't impress? 

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egg

egg

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, benjii said:

With all the injuries I think we've got to reinforce the midfield and play it quite cagey, like we did against Chelsea. We still have a chance of grabbing a goal with JWP, Vesty and Ings in the team.

I'd go with:

--‐-------------Big Mc-------------

----Bednarek----Vest----Salisu----

Djenepo - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bertrand 

- - - - - - - JWP- - - Jankewitz- - - - 

- - -- - - - - - Armstrong - - - - - - - 

- - - - - Ings- - - - - Adams

Yep, although I'd prefer to keep our shape, we can't keep doing what hasn't been working. That's about the best we can go with. 

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
Just now, egg said:

Yep, although I'd prefer to keep our shape, we can't keep doing what hasn't been working. That's about the best we can go with. 

What do they say about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result?

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nta786

nta786

Posted
Posted

To wade into the debate- I don’t think Stephens would be good enough for midfield.

His passing looks okay from the back whre generally you are given more time and space on the ball to look up and find a pass- in midfield he’d likely be found wanting.

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, saint77 said:

Stephen’s played midfield holding whilst at Middlesbrough and didn’t do to bad 

6 years ago... he only played in 1 league game for Middlesbrough. In which he came on as a sub in the 79th minute and played in central defence.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/34623339

Edited by Matthew Le God
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saintwbu

saintwbu

Posted
Posted

Surely it’s got to be JWP and Jankewitz - this kid has been touted as ‘next in line’ for a while. He fucked up his first opportunity so bad that it was almost impressive, so it can only get better from here. I really hope he gets the chance, sometimes these things work out really well. 

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Saint Keef

Saint Keef

Posted
Posted

Jankowitz or Stephens....Stephens or Jankowitz.......Jankowitz or Stephens......Let's face, whichever one it is James Rodriguez will rung rings around us. (Obviously I hope not, but.....)

On a positive note, playing on a Monday night as opposed to a Friday night or midday on a Saturday......it doesn't fuck up the whole weekend if we lose.

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qwertyell

qwertyell

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, saint77 said:

Must of been Swindon then my mistake I do apologise 

I remember Stephens playing as a holding midfielder for Swindon in the League One play off final (we also had Jordan Turnbull on loan there, playing centre back).

Jack's highlight of the game was a Zidane-like pirouette away from twin challenges in the centre circle before driving majestically to the edge of the box and letting fly a dipping, swerving thunderbolt that almost snapped the corner flag.

Swindon lost 4-0.

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suewhistle

suewhistle

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

Doesn't matter if Jack Stephens plays DM, RB or not at all, the hard of thinking on here will blame him for everything regardless. 

Really?

 

I thought they'd be blaming Redmond. Two scapegoats perhaps - a surfeit of choices which will confuse some of them. All we need is for Jankewitz to be sent off again! :-)

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JRM

JRM

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, qwertyell said:

I remember Stephens playing as a holding midfielder for Swindon in the League One play off final (we also had Jordan Turnbull on loan there, playing centre back).

Jack's highlight of the game was a Zidane-like pirouette away from twin challenges in the centre circle before driving majestically to the edge of the box and letting fly a dipping, swerving thunderbolt that almost snapped the corner flag.

Swindon lost 4-0.

I went to a few Swindon games that season, he was one of their best players in what was considered a good season by their standards. 

I remember that day, we went to Man City away, services were packed with Preston going the other way to Wembley. 

Anyway none of that suggests he's good enough to play that position in the Premier league, but he's a player we can use for his experience at this level. 

If Jankewitz plays I really hope he takes his chance this time, he won't get a better opportunity for a run of games now Romeu is out for the season, having put a transfer request in his agent is probably trying to negotiate a move elsewhere anyway. 

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The Cat

The Cat

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, JRM said:

I went to a few Swindon games that season, he was one of their best players in what was considered a good season by their standards. 

I remember that day, we went to Man City away, services were packed with Preston going the other way to Wembley. 

You had a lucky escape that day mate. I've heard about those Preston fans. They are famous for stalking around motorway services on a match day lunchtime and  praying on unsuspecting rival fans before dishing out a few slaps and making off with their lunch. 

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Saint Keef

Saint Keef

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 26/02/2021 at 20:12, UpTheToffees said:

Came on for a bit of team news and insight in to your pathetic club. Good day.

Here you go Mr Toffee. Here's our team news....hope it's of use to you.....

                                      Frank Furter

Warren Peace    Jimmy Jams    Chuck Bricks    Len Scapp

Willie Shaker   Lloyd Spank    Tom O'Hawk    Anita Bush

                      Emma Royds      Phil McCaverty

 

Bench: Edna Clouds, Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick & Titch, Colin Ostomy, Rod Anline, Courtney Fish, Jack Schitt. 

Our manager is still Stan Dupp

We were going to name Doug Owt, but he plays for your lot doesn't he?

 

Edited by Saint Keef
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LuckyNumber7

LuckyNumber7

Posted
Posted

It's a sad indictment of the lack of depth in the squad that we are probably left with no choice but to play a 19 year old who doesn't want to be here and has already shown he can't be trusted. Not to mention the problems at right back. Yet according to some we have a quality squad and Ralph should have us finishing top half!

That and our awful record at Goodison Park, it's very hard to see anything other than a comfortable defeat.

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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

It's a sad indictment of the lack of depth in the squad that we are probably left with no choice but to play a 19 year old who doesn't want to be here and has already shown he can't be trusted. Not to mention the problems at right back. Yet according to some we have a quality squad and Ralph should have us finishing top half!

That and our awful record at Goodison Park, it's very hard to see anything other than a comfortable defeat.

We have two players injured in the same position, what else would you except? We may lack quality in depth overall but not in CM. 

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nta786

nta786

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

We have two players injured in the same position, what else would you except? We may lack quality in depth overall but not in CM. 

Hmm- if the yardstick is to have 2 players for each position, then for the 2 ‘number 6’ positions- we have 3 players in total- JWP, Romeu and Diallo (out of 4 needed)

However, I’m not suggesting we need another as we have other positions we need to prioritise- but let’s just say Diallo was a player that came through academy instead (he is very young after all), would people think differently and say we need another CM?

 

Edited by nta786
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LuckyNumber7

LuckyNumber7

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

We have two players injured in the same position, what else would you except? We may lack quality in depth overall but not in CM. 

Three senior central midfielders is not enough for a long season, you should have two players for each position on the pitch. We are lucky JWP is such a machine but even he clearly could do with a rest. You will always get injuries, loss of form etc which is why you need options. 

In mdifield, with one injury we are then relying on the remaining two to play every minute of every game. As we have seen, that's not sufficient.

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VectisSaint

VectisSaint

Posted
Posted
49 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

We have two players injured in the same position, what else would you except? We may lack quality in depth overall but not in CM. 

You are joking, 2 CM positions and we have 3 (first choice) players. Even Diallo is only 21, not exactly experienced and younger than some of the kids that we don't trust. Yes we have some kids but that's not the same as having squad depth. Full backs and CM are the two areas we are short. We should have two for every position.

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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted

Part of our philosophy is giving young players a chance. Players like Jankewitz are never going to get a game if they’re fifth choice behind a bunch of senior players. Our current CM situation is no different to when we first came up and JWP was one of our options, or a couple of years later when Reed made a few appearances, or Stephens playing when Fonte/VVD were injured, or N’Lundulu/Obafemi being forth choice striker.

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Mr X

Mr X

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

It's a sad indictment of the lack of depth in the squad that we are probably left with no choice but to play a 19 year old who doesn't want to be here and has already shown he can't be trusted. Not to mention the problems at right back. Yet according to some we have a quality squad and Ralph should have us finishing top half!

That and our awful record at Goodison Park, it's very hard to see anything other than a comfortable defeat.

If our team is that bad and our players so awful how did we have our best ever start to a season playing some good stuff & being first in the league? (admittedly for like a day) this has to go down as the most colossal collapse in form by a team ever 

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egg

egg

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

It's a sad indictment of the lack of depth in the squad that we are probably left with no choice but to play a 19 year old who doesn't want to be here and has already shown he can't be trusted. Not to mention the problems at right back. Yet according to some we have a quality squad and Ralph should have us finishing top half!

That and our awful record at Goodison Park, it's very hard to see anything other than a comfortable defeat.

He handed in a transfer request because he wants to play, if not here, then somewhere else. That's very different to not wanting to be here. 

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