Nathan Jones

[64saint]

Well there's a nice job waiting down the road  for NJ as he seems at home in Div 1 as that lot down the M27 just sacked the Cowley brothers.

[SotonianWill]

11 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

How far alienated are they from the fan base a bloody light show with wrist bands when bottom of league.

Such a shit show this season have they got anything right ? 
Doesn’t seem it to me started at fans forum and gotten worse as we have gone on.

Trying really hard, can’t think of one thing they’ve done right tbh. Other shit seasons you could think of maybe one, but no. 

[Badger]

12 hours ago, alehouseboys said:

 

Just had a little snoop around and yes they're understandably up for this after Chelsea and see us as a fragile and there for the taking. It's also being billed on one of their forums as "The seasons ultimate grudge match (Part 1)" have they got something against Corporal Jones? Don't think there's any history between us really.

I don’t think the issue is with Saints as much as with NJ from his Luton days.

Forest supporter I spoke to after the appointment wasn’t keen on him, saying he was pretty ‘yappy’ on the sideline, and his Luton side weren’t good to watch, niggly, with plenty of ‘dark arts’ going on. 

[Badger]

14 minutes ago, SotonianWill said:

Trying really hard, can’t think of one thing they’ve done right tbh. Other shit seasons you could think of maybe one, but no. 

Been going on for a while, and nothing to do with Nathan Jones.

When did they poncify the Dell Club to become a wine bar, and put padded ‘executive seating’ in the Kingsland for example ? 

[Saint Garrett]

20 minutes ago, Badger said:

I don’t think the issue is with Saints as much as with NJ from his Luton days.

Forest supporter I spoke to after the appointment wasn’t keen on him, saying he was pretty ‘yappy’ on the sideline, and his Luton side weren’t good to watch, niggly, with plenty of ‘dark arts’ going on. 

You know there won’t be any of that from our soft bunch 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

3 hours ago, Miltonaggro said:

 

The only mine is the one our form plummeted down. Thanks Rasmus.

[Maggie May]

If he loses to Forest then he’s entered Frank de Boer territory, who’s often classed as one of the worst PL appointments ever. 

[Nordic Saint]

13 hours ago, alehouseboys said:

I have it on good authority that Ralph's pay out was 10 mi.......oh fuck, someone's already done it...

Just had a little snoop around and yes they're understandably up for this after Chelsea and see us as a fragile and there for the taking. It's also being billed on one of their forums as "The seasons ultimate grudge match (Part 1)" have they got something against Corporal Jones? Don't think there's any history between us really.

If it's someone with a long memory he could be referring to the match at the Dell in May 1967, when we needed to win to stay up and they needed to win to win the league. They weren't too happy the last time we met either:

 

 

[verlaine1979]

3 hours ago, Nordic Saint said:

If it's someone with a long memory he could be referring to the match at the Dell in May 1967, when we needed to win to stay up and they needed to win to win the league. They weren't too happy the last time we met either:

 

 

Bah. Look at Cork offloading the ball and immediately running into space. WTF has happened with our squad of midget statues?

[Turkish]

Rumours circulating Potter has two games to save his job. Their next two games are both against Man City. We should have kept Ralph for another 2 months 

Edited 3 January, 2023 by Turkish

[Turkish]

8 hours ago, Maggie May said:

If he loses to Forest then he’s entered Frank de Boer territory, who’s often classed as one of the worst PL appointments ever. 

hmm, De Boer P5 won 1, lost 4, scored 2 and conceded 8.

Jones P5 W0 L3 scored 3 conceded 8

He's matched goals against in two less games. He only needs a draw from the next two to stick another record in the books.

[kitch]

23 hours ago, SotonianWill said:

Yes though Ralph deserved to go after second half last season/ this season, I do miss the ralph era of actually knowing win lose or draw we always played the same style of football, you knew we could cause a few problems as we always played the same way. Now, we don’t have the ball enough to have a style our style is give the ball to the opposition then whack it forward for our 5ft10 striker

Ralph started that shit at the beginning of this season, in fairness. Not as bad as it is now, granted, but we looked a very long ball-based team as soon as Bazunu went in the sticks.

[sotonjoe]

On 01/01/2023 at 22:39, The Kraken said:

I struggle to believe that. He only had another 18 months on his contract.

Well his first contract with Saints was £6m per year 

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

hmm, De Boer P5 won 1, lost 4, scored 2 and conceded 8.

Jones P5 W0 L3 scored 3 conceded 8

He's matched goals against in two less games. He only needs a draw from the next two to stick another record in the books.

I honestly see us losing every league game under him. 

[Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan]

6 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Bah. Look at Cork offloading the ball and immediately running into space. WTF has happened with our squad of midget statues?

Definitely helped him having Morgan sitting behind him. Imagine having a midfield where you actually trust that every team we play won't be able to just run straight through us. God I miss him.

[Miltonaggro]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

hmm, De Boer P5 won 1, lost 4, scored 2 and conceded 8.

Jones P5 W0 L3 scored 3 conceded 8

He's matched goals against in two less games. He only needs a draw from the next two to stick another record in the books.

I think Nat will be all over this! 

[Turkish]

21 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

I honestly see us losing every league game under him. 

We might get lucky against Forest, we wont be Palace and we always lose at Everton. 

[Miltonaggro]

30 minutes ago, Turkish said:

We might get lucky against Forest, we wont be Palace and we always lose at Everton. 

The best senior managers I’ve seen are always the ones who tell the truth when a untenable situation has emerged on their watch and act quickly. Ostensibly effective crisis management and damage limitation. Whatever happens now in terms of results I doubt that Semmens and Ankersen have the experience, intelligence or guts to act to act decisively to protect the ‘business’. Tossers. 

[OldNick]

5 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

I honestly see us losing every league game under him. 

Any bets going?

[Saint_clark]

7 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Any bets going?

Betting sites won't let you bet beyond the next two round of games otherwise I'd consider it.

[OldNick]

6 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Betting sites won't let you bet beyond the next two round of games otherwise I'd consider it.

Would you really place a bet as that foolish???

Im not sure how old you are but Lawrie came from Grimsby Town and went through pelters, the board kept him and we had the best days supporting Saints.

Yes NJ is not who I expected but I am warming to him. We as a fanbase do not have time to be down on the manager as we need the team to feel us behind them

Edited 3 January, 2023 by OldNick

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, OldNick said:

Would you really place a bet as that foolish???

Of course he / she wouldn’t; just like most of this thread it’s all hot air. 
 

 

[imadirtyurchin]

2 hours ago, OldNick said:

Would you really place a bet as that foolish???

Im not sure how old you are but Lawrie came from Grimsby Town and went through pelters, the board kept him and we had the best days supporting Saints.

Yes NJ is not who I expected but I am warming to him. We as a fanbase do not have time to be down on the manager as we need the team to feel us behind them

How come you’re warming to him OldNick? 

[AndyRWatson]

On 02/01/2023 at 17:18, Dellman said:

It's not 'Jones Out'  The real question is the  one nobody has answered: Why was he ever in?

I think the answer remains in that we are owned and lead by a company that made their fortune from betting strategies, who use stats and data to make decisions rather than heart and previous traditional football experience.   The club we all love is,  as mentioned many times by others, is a moneyball team, along with the likes of Brentford and Brighton who themselves have reached the premier league in recent years using a similar model where money and star players were not the answer.

As to why we chose Nathan Jones,  I think Brighton could be the answer here.  The club has said before it knew along with Ralph who the next manager would be.  Ralph had tried to adapt and coach to the requirements of the owners, statistics suggesting success with  new formations and long balls,    and they knew Nathan Jones was the natural successor  as he had experience of coaching based on moneyball / stats / data with Luton.    All the love for a Dyche to save our season was never the answer for SR as would he buy into how they wanted their  club to be run ?   

I wonder if what triggered the move was not Ralphs situation or the upcoming World Cup break ,  but Chelsea signing Potter from Brighton,  a rival team who use a similar system and potential for a manager who knew the system and had experience at the club,  and SR  suddenly move quickly to secure Ralphs successor with the skills and buy into the system they wanted as an employer rather than risk losing him.

Whether it will work, well that’s the gamble ! Its proven to bring teams up the leagues to the heights of the Premier League, but has yet to be shown can it be applied to help a team survive ?

Optimistically it could be just that Brighton's computer was better than ours on Boxing Day,  lets hope the black box got an upgrade and some better results coming out in 2023, but either way I think we have no option than to hope NJ can coach this team to the system

Edited 3 January, 2023 by AndyRWatson

[Saint_clark]

33 minutes ago, AndyRWatson said:

 

I wonder if what triggered the move was not Ralphs situation or the upcoming World Cup break ,  but Chelsea signing Potter from Brighton,  a rival team who use a similar system and potential for a manager who knew the system and had experience at the club,  and SR  suddenly move quickly to secure Ralphs successor with the skills and buy into the system they wanted as an employer rather than risk losing him.

 

Interesting theory, except Brighton appointed Potters replacement on the 18th of September and we didn't sack Ralph until 7th of November so we didn't exactly move quickly, nor was there any evidence of us trying to ensure we snapped Jones up before someone else got him.

[AndyRWatson]

3 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Interesting theory, except Brighton appointed Potters replacement on the 18th of September and we didn't sack Ralph until 7th of November so we didn't exactly move quickly, nor was there any evidence of us trying to ensure we snapped Jones up before someone else got him.

Fair point,   maybe the stats and risk changed for SR in November 😉

Edited 3 January, 2023 by AndyRWatson

[imadirtyurchin]

I understand that NJ is undoubtedly SR's man and they wanted him because of "stat based reasoning". But my issue with the appointment is judging by the type of football being played (very long, very direct, little possession and 3 at the back) it just doesn't seem to fit with the "playbook" established over the last 4 years and therefore the attributes of the expensively (for us) assembled squad in the summer. I know ralph started to go more direct and moved away from 4222 but I think perhaps that was being dictated to him from above.

I just haven't seen anything at the moment which seems to suggest that NJ will get us playing in a way which will work in the Prem. (or which won't just condemn us to being a poor Burnley knockoff) No love-in from me for a Dyche appointment. I wanted a progressive manager that would carry on the work done by Ralph and move us forward where we had stagnated. I don't think NJ is that guy.

[verlaine1979]

1 hour ago, AndyRWatson said:

I think the answer remains in that we are owned and lead by a company that made their fortune from betting strategies, who use stats and data to make decisions rather than heart and previous traditional football experience.  

I think you have us mixed up with Brentford. We're led by people who made their money in cable/telecoms (Solak), investing (Kraft) and as far as Ankerson goes, he's actually spent most of his career in football.

There's also a common misconception about "moneyball", insofar as the process described in the book can't really be applied to football as the game is too unstructured for the kind of statistical analysis used in baseball. As for whether data is useful in identifying players for the scouts to take a closer look at - well of course it is. There's a lot the stats can't tell you, but in many cases, they tell you everything you need to know.

For example, comparing Danny Ings and Che Adams chance conversion data would immediately show you that one of those players is an unusually effective finisher, and one of them is unusually terrible.

[Morse]

'Data' my arse.

The only 'data' that counts is 'played 17 points 12' 

[SotonianWill]

3 hours ago, imadirtyurchin said:

How come you’re warming to him OldNick? 

personally I like him but that’s as a person, his football is shit 

[Smirking_Saint]

2 hours ago, AndyRWatson said:

Fair point,   maybe the stats and risk changed for SR in November 😉

It wasn’t a rushed appointment, it was calculated… whuch IMO makes it arguably worse

Ralph was given until October originally but due to a couple of good results then it was extended, the drop of form prompted us to go to our preferred targets

NJ has been ‘watched’ and analysed since before the summer

[pimpin4rizeal]

I might be in the minority here but I’m happy to give Nj a chance 

theres already a few promising signs, one of them being he has already fully unleashed Edozie something Ralph seemed unwilling to do bar the odd sub cameo.. Jones already has edozie looking our main attacking threat and he looks great.

i would also say our attacking looks slightly better under Jones there was some nice interplay vs Fulham again a lot of it going through edozie but also maybe due to less Ralphball sideways passing crap and more direct not having a lot of possession can sometimes be a good thing as you get more space on the break.

Also think he sounds more truthfull then RH who a lot of the time sounded like a club mouthpiece. With bullshit like he didn’t want a big squad etc.. Jones sounds more like he will say if the players don’t suit which puts more pressure on the board luke koeman used to..

End of the day he’s here now do we really want to make a tough job even harder by putting a ton of pressure on the man?  Let’s get behind him for now !

[hotsaint]

On 02/01/2023 at 02:59, Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd said:

I have to laugh. I made my feelings about Jones known on here when he was appointed and was told to 'Fuck off and support Luton'.

Nice to see that people are already coming round to the fact that the bloke is a tosser and completely out of his depth. He's an egomaniac who hasn't got a clue, tactically.

Nathan Jones is interested in one thing... Himself. 

To quote one of my mates who I go to the odd Luton game with... "So far, Rob Edwards is certainly playing a better style of football, which isn't difficult as Jones didn't have any style.

Obviously it’s very early days but signs are positive. No ridiculous badge kissing / chest thumping or shouting “fucking come on” after every game, which is refreshing after that ego maniac, Jones.

Jones shouldn't have been allowed to return after he went to Stoke. The vast majority of fans didn't want him back and even making the play offs didn't change people's opinions of him.

What makes me laugh is that someone at saints is supposed to have done their homework and I've no idea what they saw that made them think he was a Premiership manager? If he's so great then why were other Championship clubs not beating down the door for his signature at the end of last season?

I genuinely feel sorry all Saints fans having to endure that prick."

 

I am not really sure this is the case. The Luton fans were pissed off when he left, we were top of the league but he went to a club in a higher league at the time offering ten times more pay. It didn't work and we were bottom of the league in January staring relegation in the face when he came back. The fans has doubts but he turned it around and then against all the odds led the team to the play offs and assembled the excellent squad they have now. A poll of Luton fans when he left this time had him as 98% liked. 

His football in his spell at Luton was very exciting but has been a lot more pragmatic and got results this times round, with a team of free transfers v teams with ex premier budgets it had to be. 

Whether he will do well at Southampton who knows, the Luton board gave him a year to find his feet in league two and he flourished. Where Southampton will do that I doubt, it seems they have decided already he is not good enough for them. I suspect he will end up as Wales manager

[hotsaint]

2 minutes ago, hotsaint said:

I am not really sure this is the case. The Luton fans were pissed off when he left, they were top of the league but he went to a club in a higher league, Stoke at the time offering ten times more pay. It didn't work and tey were bottom of the league in January staring relegation in the face when he came back. The fans had doubts but he turned it around and then against all the odds led the team to the play offs and assembled the excellent squad they have now. A poll of Luton fans when he left this time had him as 98% liked. 

In his first spell at Luton the football was very exciting but has been a lot more pragmatic and got results this time round, with a team of free transfers v teams with ex premier budgets it had to be. 

Whether he will do well at Southampton who knows, the Luton board gave him a year to find his feet in league two and he flourished. Whether Southampton will do that I doubt, it seems the fans have decided already he is not good enough for them.

 

Edited 4 January, 2023 by hotsaint
Spelling

[S-Clarke]

3 minutes ago, hotsaint said:

I am not really sure this is the case. The Luton fans were pissed off when he left, we were top of the league but he went to a club in a higher league at the time offering ten times more pay. It didn't work and we were bottom of the league in January staring relegation in the face when he came back. The fans has doubts but he turned it around and then against all the odds led the team to the play offs and assembled the excellent squad they have now. A poll of Luton fans when he left this time had him as 98% liked. 

His football in his spell at Luton was very exciting but has been a lot more pragmatic and got results this times round, with a team of free transfers v teams with ex premier budgets it had to be. 

Whether he will do well at Southampton who knows, the Luton board gave him a year to find his feet in league two and he flourished. Where Southampton will do that I doubt, it seems they have decided already he is not good enough for them. I suspect he will end up as Wales manager

Maybe Sidney will introduce you to his Luton friend so you can debate the views.

Although as we all suspect that Luton friend is a figment of his own imagination so you'll never meet him. 

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

5 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

Maybe Sidney will introduce you to his Luton friend so you can debate the views.

Although as we all suspect that Luton friend is a figment of his own imagination so you'll never meet him. 

I go to Luton quite a bit as they're my hometown team. I'll gladly introduce you at least 10-15 people who will give you an honest opinion of Jones, the only issue is that they're likely to want to slap you in the face for being such a presumptuous prick. 

[S-Clarke]

4 minutes ago, Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd said:

I go to Luton quite a bit as they're my hometown team. I'll gladly introduce you at least 10-15 people who will give you an honest opinion of Jones, the only issue is that they're likely to want to slap you in the face for being such a presumptuous prick. 

Can you introduce me to your Spurs fan friends whilst you're at it?

Edited 4 January, 2023 by S-Clarke

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

18 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Can you introduce me to your Spurs fan friends whilst you're at it?

Anytime.

Living where I do, most people are Luton Town supporters. There's also a lot of Watford, Arsenal and Spurs fans as it's only a short trip down the M1. 

I guess when you've not got any friends you can't get your head around the fact that some of us might actually have friends and family who support other teams. 

[Saint Matty 76]

Ah man, he isn't necessarily wrong in some aspects but this is proper depressing stuff.

Manager trying to save face in the light of an absolutely massive game is just the lift the fanbase needs.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

Ah man, he isn't necessarily wrong in some aspects but this is proper depressing stuff.

Manager trying to save face in the light of an absolutely massive game is just the lift the fanbase needs.

Oh ffs that is horrendous. What sort of manager says something like that publically after just taking over? How is that defeatist sort of attitude going to help anyone? Uninspiring, weak and dire. Sounds like a broken man already and is night and day from when started just a short time ago. We are proper f*cked. 

[S-Clarke]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Oh ffs that is horrendous. What sort of manager says something like that publically after just taking over? How is that defeatist sort of attitude going to help anyone? Uninspiring, weak and dire. Sounds like a broken man already and is night and day from when started just a short time ago. We are proper f*cked. 

Sadly, that is the attitude which has progressed throughout the club over the last 18 months.

''We should be grateful to be here''  ''Every win we get should be cherished at this level'' and I could go on. We have acted like we don't belong at this level for ages and it's no surprise that the inevitable is now likely to happen. Totally self-inflicted.

A club that has been in the PL for 11 seasons in a row should not be feeding the ‘lucky to be here’ narrative.

Edited 4 January, 2023 by S-Clarke

[Archers Road Stand]

Loser mentality. 

[Weston Saint]

6 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Sadly, that is the attitude which has progressed throughout the club over the last 18 months.

''We should be grateful to be here''  ''Every win we get should be cherished at this level'' and I could go on. We have acted like we don't belong at this level for ages and it's no surprise that the inevitable is now likely to happen. Totally self-inflicted.

A club that has been in the PL for 11 seasons in a row should not be feeding the ‘lucky to be here’ narrative.

24 years out of 31 in Premier League. Of course we belong there. Need to get those now runnindg our club to realise that. As you say, a sad attitude from our owners and Executive staff.

[hypochondriac]

12 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Sadly, that is the attitude which has progressed throughout the club over the last 18 months.

''We should be grateful to be here''  ''Every win we get should be cherished at this level'' and I could go on. We have acted like we don't belong at this level for ages and it's no surprise that the inevitable is now likely to happen. Totally self-inflicted.

A club that has been in the PL for 11 seasons in a row should not be feeding the ‘lucky to be here’ narrative.

What I want is relentless positivity and talking the club and players up even if it comes accross as a bit deluded. I wonder if this is some sort of pr move from the club designed to get the fans to accept we are really lucky to be here. I found Semmens at the fans forum equally odd. I've no idea what possible good this attitude from Jones can do other than maybe trying to shield Jones personally from any criticism. It should be all about the team and its success and not Jones at all. 

At least we have a world class wristband light show to look forward to... 

Edited 4 January, 2023 by hypochondriac

[stknowle]

28 minutes ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

Ah man, he isn't necessarily wrong in some aspects but this is proper depressing stuff.

Manager trying to save face in the light of an absolutely massive game is just the lift the fanbase needs.

Fuck me what a wanker. Even if that's how you feel don't fucking say it. Was this his attitude in the interview - kinda doubt it. If it was he shouldn't have got the job, if it wasn't he should be sacked.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, stknowle said:

Fuck me what a wanker. Even if that's how you feel don't fucking say it. Was this his attitude in the interview - kinda doubt it. If it was he shouldn't have got the job, if it wasn't he should be sacked.

His attitude is diametrically opposed to what he showed immediately after he was appointed. Either he's been told to act like that by the club or he's so weak that he's been ground down in just six weeks to this point. 

[adrian lord]

Hardly Churchillian. 

[captainchris]

On 03/01/2023 at 15:30, OldNick said:

Would you really place a bet as that foolish???

Im not sure how old you are but Lawrie came from Grimsby Town and went through pelters, the board kept him and we had the best days supporting Saints.

Yes NJ is not who I expected but I am warming to him. We as a fanbase do not have time to be down on the manager as we need the team to feel us behind them

Isn’t the football we play a factor? Our football has been outrageously poor. Our results have unsurprisingly been the same. Had the football been cohesive and organised with rational team selections then perhaps we could be patient even through a poor set of initial results. However, that has clearly not been the case. We were relegated under Lawrie yes but were playing much more intelligent football then than now and went on to play scintillating attractive football ….

In those days we also had ambition not like Semmens today who has zero and should take much more blame for this mess we are in than he does.

[ally_uk]

Wow what a negative message and attitude. Would our players be inspired? After listening to that?

Some of us here could do alot better! 

Yes we are in a tricky position but we are determined to turn things around. I believe our players are better than what we are currently exhibiting and hopefully with a few reinforcements we can turn a corner and show the fans that this is the league we belong in......

 

Not hard is it to motivate?

 

What a absolute joke of a manager 

[saintant]

It's no wonder the team amble onto the field resembling a bunch of Christians about to be thrown to the lions. We need a leader to build them up not a defeatist who sends them out beaten before a ball is even kicked. I thought Jones was at least going to have some spirit in him but he's coming across as a bit of a wimp who wants to get his excuses in before the match has kicked off. This is one we must win so a rallying cry is needed not all this pathetic whimpering. Jeez.