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Taylor Harwood-Bellis


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4 hours ago, Turkish said:

You’ve completely made that scenario up in your head 

It's how I read the scenario based on what was happening at that exact moment. Everyone is free to make up their own minds about why he was pissed off. It's possible he'd stubbed his toe.

However, Man City graduate, England under 21 captain, Euro Championship winning, Championship title winning centreback being overlooked in his favoured position for a centre midfielder? It's not a stretch to say that's why he looked pissed off at the exact moment the substitution was being made. 

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3 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

It's how I read the scenario based on what was happening at that exact moment. Everyone is free to make up their own minds about why he was pissed off. It's possible he'd stubbed his toe.

However, Man City graduate, England under 21 captain, Euro Championship winning, Championship title winning centreback being overlooked in his favoured position for a centre midfielder? It's not a stretch to say that's why he looked pissed off at the exact moment the substitution was being made. 

You know we signed him yesterday, right?

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17 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

What's the point in him being on the bench then if there was zero intention of using him? Especially when there were clearly such huge issues at CB.

In the world of bloody nine players on the bench he was literally there to make up the numbers. We'd have needed injuries to CBs to see him on the pitch today.

If I was Martin and just seen Holgates performance after a week of preparation I would not be replacing him with someone with less than a day of preparation.

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13 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

It's how I read the scenario based on what was happening at that exact moment. Everyone is free to make up their own minds about why he was pissed off. It's possible he'd stubbed his toe.

However, Man City graduate, England under 21 captain, Euro Championship winning, Championship title winning centreback being overlooked in his favoured position for a centre midfielder? It's not a stretch to say that's why he looked pissed off at the exact moment the substitution was being made. 

Shea Charles didn’t take Holgate’s position though, he played on the right side of defence, right-back/wing-back. Manning came more central and played a sort of hybrid centre-back/left-back position. Holgate coming off changed the shape of the team (not that it did any good), bringing on THB as a centre-back replacement simply wouldn’t have done that. THB may have been pissed off that he didn’t get on the pitch, but suggesting Shea Charles was chosen in THB’s position instead of him is just fundamentally incorrect.

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  • 2 months later...
  • Lighthouse changed the title to Taylor Harwood-Bellis
On 17/11/2023 at 03:03, S-Clarke said:

We've done so well to get this guy, our best signing in many, many years.

He's good alright.      I'd rate him as good as, if not better than John Stones at the same stage of their careers.     He  (THB) is one of several reasons why promotion is so crucial this season - even if it is quite good winning a lot of games in the Championship.

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23 hours ago, austsaint said:

He's good alright.      I'd rate him as good as, if not better than John Stones at the same stage of their careers.     He  (THB) is one of several reasons why promotion is so crucial this season - even if it is quite good winning a lot of games in the Championship.

That's a fairly bold statement. The only similarities that I can see is that he is English and has played for Man City.

Suppose he turns out to be as good as you hope, do you think seriously that City would let him go? 

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24 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

That's a fairly bold statement. The only similarities that I can see is that he is English and has played for Man City.

Suppose he turns out to be as good as you hope, do you think seriously that City would let him go? 

I think there are a few more similarities.   When Stones was the same age as THB he was impressing at Everton as a young, physical CB with technical skills and a good passing game.  I see the same attributes in Harwood-Bellis.    As to whether City would let him go.   It all depends on whether we get promoted this season, in which case there would  be every chance he would become a permanent player.    If we don't go up, he's one of the first out the door.....he will surely be playing in the Prem in 24/25. 

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I don’t understand why Burnley did not buy him outright. Or do more to buy him outright. Losing a player of his calibre was a huge gamble /criminally careless of them.
 

If we go up our obligation to buy for£20m will be a bargain.
 

And given the criteria for CB’s being selected for the full ENG squad ( basically are you English does your epl team pick you at cb ) and the fact the limited maguire still starts most games ) suggests to me THB staying uninjured will make the full England squad by this time next season ( whether it’s with us or a n other epl team). And at his age that means his value basically trebles. 

 

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13 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

 

And given the criteria for CB’s being selected for the full ENG squad ( basically are you English does your epl team pick you at cb ) and the fact the limited maguire still starts most games ) suggests to me THB staying uninjured will make the full England squad by this time next season ( whether it’s with us or a n other epl team). And at his age that means his value basically trebles. 

 

I think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself. 

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  • 1 month later...

That lofted pass for Che last night was simply superb. 
It shows we can go direct. Ie RM has not disallowed it! That the CB has got an eye, and the ability, to reward intelligent runs. 
Also shows why THB is going to be a bargain buy if we get promoted. 
playing brilliantly and were he to do this at EPL level his value easily doubles to £50m+ imo. 
I also think the uptick in form ( from a high base- he’s one of our players of the season for sure so far) is in no small part connected to his developing a good relationship with Jan - as well as the return to squad of JS and the positive motivation to keep his place that creates. 
RM taking him off for JS a few matches ago has coincided with several excellent performances thereafter from THB. There is a correlation in my mind so kudos to the man management taking place also. 

Edited by gio1saints
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1 hour ago, gio1saints said:

That lofted pass for Che last night was simply superb. 
It shows we can go direct. Ie RM has not disallowed it!

Indeed. Great to see that we appear to be trying it much more often than earlier in the season. Long may it continue! :)

 

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Such a class CB - him getting a consistent role in the side is one of the main reasons why we are so good defensively. The bloke is a leader, very vocal, good on the ball (technically) and his head is like a magnet. He's ticks pretty much all boxes you want from a modern day CB.

We did well to get him, a massive coup at the time. The obligation to buy 'if' we go up was another mega clever bit of business - just have to hope we get there.

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29 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Such a class CB - him getting a consistent role in the side is one of the main reasons why we are so good defensively. The bloke is a leader, very vocal, good on the ball (technically) and his head is like a magnet. He's ticks pretty much all boxes you want from a modern day CB.

We did well to get him, a massive coup at the time. The obligation to buy 'if' we go up was another mega clever bit of business - just have to hope we get there.

He is what we’ve been missing for years. A proper defender, a leader someone who can organise the defence.  I said this when he joined, like you say no coincidence that since he’s been a regular we’ve gone from one of the worst defences to one of the best 

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  • 1 month later...

Wanted to bump this to give a shout out to THB's superb range of passing. The ball to Fraser on Saturday that led to his back-heel to Arma was inch perfect. It's great for the team that he's got that in his locker especially with the clever runs made by the likes of RF and AA.

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22 minutes ago, saintant said:

Wanted to bump this to give a shout out to THB's superb range of passing. The ball to Fraser on Saturday that led to his back-heel to Arma was inch perfect. It's great for the team that he's got that in his locker especially with the clever runs made by the likes of RF and AA.

He's like prime Fonte, But has unreal passing ability. I do hope we go up because he is going to be the next VvD

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6 hours ago, saintant said:

Wanted to bump this to give a shout out to THB's superb range of passing. The ball to Fraser on Saturday that led to his back-heel to Arma was inch perfect. It's great for the team that he's got that in his locker especially with the clever runs made by the likes of RF and AA.

He's so good just cannot get my head around why Burnley didn't sign him. 

Future England regular in my opinion. 

What a difference it makes for Baz in goal having a settled centre back partnership in front of him. 

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1 hour ago, JRM said:

He's so good just cannot get my head around why Burnley didn't sign him. 

Future England regular in my opinion. 

What a difference it makes for Baz in goal having a settled centre back partnership in front of him. 

I don't think they could afford him

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21 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Do Man City have an option not to sell?

No but they probably have a buy back clause in the eventual transfer, will be so annoying if we don’t go up this season as he must be being heavily tracked by premier league clubs!  I was surprised we got him this year next year he has to be playing top flight football he’s way to good for this league.

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1 hour ago, a1ex2001 said:

No but they probably have a buy back clause in the eventual transfer, will be so annoying if we don’t go up this season as he must be being heavily tracked by premier league clubs!  I was surprised we got him this year next year he has to be playing top flight football he’s way to good for this league.

The way I see it, is is that if he's good enough to be a Premier League player, and future England international, then he'll be good enough to get us promoted (which will obviously result in us signing him).  I'm assuming here that he would sign for us whether he wanted to or not!?

So it's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy really.

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Agree with everyone else, immense player. Can go to the very top. 
 

Dare I say it, reminds me a bit of John Terry. He has the same ability to drop balls out of the sky and a cultured first touch. 

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47 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Agree with everyone else, immense player. Can go to the very top. 
 

Dare I say it, reminds me a bit of John Terry. He has the same ability to drop balls out of the sky and a cultured first touch. 

Yep, there are certain similarities with JT but I hope to god THB ends up being, dare I say it, less of a cunt. 

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27 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

No, but THB has the option to reject us so if they wanted to keep him they could.

Not sure that’s correct.
But your underlying fear that THB might have outgrown us by end season either way i share. Both Man Utd and Liverpool could want him next season if VVD and Maquire leave.. 

We have THB on a year long loan with obligation to purchase -if we get promoted. We, city and THB are parties to the contract and it would have required three way consent to proceed.

IF we go up City cannot, without breaching contract, refuse to sell at the agreed price. Ditto THB, without breaching contract, cannot refuse to make loan permanent. Saints cannot, without breaching contract (and implications therein) refuse to buy THB for £20m if we get promoted. 

It would never come to that I’m sure  if THB simply did not fancy another year with Saints as you say perhaps because, say, Liverpool wanted him. 

What would happen is that we’d either buy him, try convince him to stay, fail, then sell him to Liverpool. Or more simply City sell him and we get given proceeds minus £20m. 


Either way him not staying a season with us in EPL would be a massive blow so any time he spends with us next season will require a massive wage upgrade I’m sure. If saints can get him To sign a 5 year deal in summer then if worst comes to worst at least we can get best fee possible for him. 

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I think thoughts of THB going straight to a top team are a little premature.  Fantastic as he has been he is still completely untested at PL level, which is a huge step up from The Championship.  If we go up he'll, I'm sure, be delighted to join permanently as a first choice CB in a PL team. 

Of course if he steps up as we believe he can he won't stay long, but by that time he'll be worth mega money and I will fully enjoy watching Saints piss it up the wall again ala VVD.  Or City will have a buy back clause worth buttons.

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8 minutes ago, Barsiem said:

I think thoughts of THB going straight to a top team are a little premature.  Fantastic as he has been he is still completely untested at PL level, which is a huge step up from The Championship.  If we go up he'll, I'm sure, be delighted to join permanently as a first choice CB in a PL team. 

Of course if he steps up as we believe he can he won't stay long, but by that time he'll be worth mega money and I will fully enjoy watching Saints piss it up the wall again ala VVD.  Or City will have a buy back clause worth buttons.

Big agree. He looks the dogs bollocks playing against Chuckle Vision United etc. but has yet to have premier league players running at him consistently. Truth his he has had plenty of moments this season where he puts a lazy header or foot on a ball that ends up in a shooting opportunity for the opposition - in the prem he would get punished for this a lot more than in the Championship - shades of prime Yoshida. 

Don't get me wrong, he's playing great in this team in this league and I would love to see how he handles the step up. Let's just remember where we are. 

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1 hour ago, Barsiem said:

I think thoughts of THB going straight to a top team are a little premature.  Fantastic as he has been he is still completely untested at PL level, which is a huge step up from The Championship.  If we go up he'll, I'm sure, be delighted to join permanently as a first choice CB in a PL team. 

Of course if he steps up as we believe he can he won't stay long, but by that time he'll be worth mega money and I will fully enjoy watching Saints piss it up the wall again ala VVD.  Or City will have a buy back clause worth buttons.

Good point. Janny B. also has looked very good this season. Not so much previously in the PL.  Ditto AArmstrong. 

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16 hours ago, saintant said:

Wanted to bump this to give a shout out to THB's superb range of passing. The ball to Fraser on Saturday that led to his back-heel to Arma was inch perfect. It's great for the team that he's got that in his locker especially with the clever runs made by the likes of RF and AA.

He's really started to do this regularly too, a few times a game at least. Our forwards know to expect it; we've scored a couple from his long balls forwards.

It gives our opponents a real dilemma too - do they close THB down, even if they're not set up for pressing? Our whole play style is built around keeping possession, finding the extra man, so pressing him just opens up spaces on the rest of the pitch. Do they play a lower block to minimise the space behind the defence? That lets us progress up the pitch comfortably and have a game of attack vs defence. Or try and play an offside trap - which has its own obvious drawbacks.

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It’s not just THB either; Bednarek plays just as many long, diagonal or over-the-top balls that are equally accurate and defence-splitting, too.  Stephens, not so much but he does tend to surge forward with the ball a bit more.  So, our three CBs contribute a lot to our attacking play as well as piss about, drawing the oppo’s press onto them to open up gaps that we can exploit.  A key part of our play.

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5 hours ago, Tommy Mulgrew said:

It’s not just THB either; Bednarek plays just as many long, diagonal or over-the-top balls that are equally accurate and defence-splitting, too.  Stephens, not so much but he does tend to surge forward with the ball a bit more.  So, our three CBs contribute a lot to our attacking play as well as piss about, drawing the oppo’s press onto them to open up gaps that we can exploit.  A key part of our play.

Bednarek is a conundrum. On the one hand he's 27, coming into prime years for a CB. On the other hand we've seen him in the Prem before and he was a liability - will he really have improved that much from one season dominating in the Championship where we have 60-70% of the ball most games and little defending to do? I'd love to think so, but my head is telling my heart we should look to upgrade if we get promoted. Maybe buy another THB style youngster to play backup for a season. 

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2 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Bednarek is a conundrum. On the one hand he's 27, coming into prime years for a CB. On the other hand we've seen him in the Prem before and he was a liability - will he really have improved that much from one season dominating in the Championship where we have 60-70% of the ball most games and little defending to do? I'd love to think so, but my head is telling my heart we should look to upgrade if we get promoted. Maybe buy another THB style youngster to play backup for a season. 

I imagine the club will look to strengthen and bring in another CB to push Bednarek/THB for a starting spot along with Stephens. Providing we get promoted.

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10 hours ago, SaintsFan86 said:

I imagine the club will look to strengthen and bring in another CB to push Bednarek/THB for a starting spot along with Stephens. Providing we get promoted.

ABK will come back from his loan as well, if he can repair his shoulder. 

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16 hours ago, Tommy Mulgrew said:

It’s not just THB either; Bednarek plays just as many long, diagonal or over-the-top balls that are equally accurate and defence-splitting, too.  Stephens, not so much but he does tend to surge forward with the ball a bit more.  So, our three CBs contribute a lot to our attacking play as well as piss about, drawing the oppo’s press onto them to open up gaps that we can exploit.  A key part of our play.

We've been doing this since just before Christmas, long balls either over the top or splitting the defence with low accurate long passes with runners running on. It seemed to start for me when Stephens came back, his long low passes were very noticeable and THB with the ones over the top. It seems to have taken a while for JB to get in on the act but he too is now executing these passes well, hence we are now looking very slick with quick progression from back to front. 

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26 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:


No thanks, absolute dosser 

He must have something about him having been in the Germany squad at the world Cup, just seems to struggle with injuries reoccurring. 

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