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Does anyone really miss the Prem?

washsaint

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Maggie May

Maggie May

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, skintsaint said:

It was pretty horrible on here under both the Poortvliet and Wotte regimes. 

Indeed. I recently went back and read a few posts. There was a brief period of hope under Jan but some of the results were horrid. Lots of acrimony towards Lowe and Wilde too. Very bleak days.

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OldNick

OldNick

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On 29/10/2023 at 14:07, AlexLaw76 said:

Wait till we well KwP, Downes has gone and THB, along with Bednarek are no longer here.

 

essentially, just wait until we are Stoke city

Well Downes will not be here anyway, KWP will be picked off in Jan I suspect. THB will be here if we get promoted. Bednarek if he goes will not be a problem as frankly 6 months or so a ago he was said to be useless, on here

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gio1saints

gio1saints

Posted
Posted

Enjoying today is more important than enjoying tomorrow once you get to a certain age. 


We would all be wise to concentrate on the present much more than we do - our friends and family and yes that includes the SFC family - instead of wishing our lives away with what might be tomorrow. 

Our true friends and true family will always be with us no matter what our status. And as a point of reference to that I reckon 99% of posters here would still support Saints in the National League. 

So, yeah playing v Liverpool Man Utd & and co is all very exciting but the only time it’s ever really counted for something was in 1976.
 

Anyone who was at the paint trophy’s final with the biggest club support ever at Wembley did not think it was a waste of time or inferior. It was a blast and we all felt right proud. 
 

 


 

 

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Hamilton Saint

Hamilton Saint

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Speaking as a supporter who now lives overseas (in Canada), being in the Premier League is important because it means I can watch Saints play every single game of the season on TV. Now that we have dropped to the Championship, TV coverage is sporadic.

Much as I appreciate the audio commentary of Adam B and Joe T, and enjoy the debates on here, I do like to see the games, so that I can watch the players and form my own opinions. Perhaps we'll get TV coverage of all Championship games in the not-too-distant future. Here's hoping.

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washsaint

washsaint

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59 minutes ago, Hamilton Saint said:

Speaking as a supporter who now lives overseas (in Canada), being in the Premier League is important because it means I can watch Saints play every single game of the season on TV. Now that we have dropped to the Championship, TV coverage is sporadic.

Much as I appreciate the audio commentary of Adam B and Joe T, and enjoy the debates on here, I do like to see the games, so that I can watch the players and form my own opinions. Perhaps we'll get TV coverage of all Championship games in the not-too-distant future. Here's hoping.

We get most of the games here in the US as, for some reason, Saints are typically chosen by ESPN+ as the live game most weeks (or so it feels).

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verlaine1979

verlaine1979

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12 hours ago, washsaint said:

We get most of the games here in the US as, for some reason, Saints are typically chosen by ESPN+ as the live game most weeks (or so it feels).

I'd say it's more like every third game. There have been a few on Sky Sports Arena + extra games in the UK that never made it on to ESPN+.

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Fitzhugh Fella

Fitzhugh Fella

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I have mixed opinions on this. Part of me says the only place to be is the top-flight as that's where it's at in terms of money, exposure etc etc.

But football has sold its soul (WC to Saudi is just the latest example) and money talks loudest, which means the PL is simply not a level playing field any more. Clubs like Saints will always struggle and who wants to spend their Saturday afternoons (or whenever Sky decide) watching a struggling side who rarely wins (2022-23)? The fans have been shafted by the powers to be. There is no integrity in football and the PL in particular, the officials interpretation of VAR is killing what's left of the game and the players feigning injury has reached pathetic levels. Ticket prices have put the game beyond many, clubs have become corporate entities with fans now regarded as dispensable and problematic if they dare to have a voice (Celtic fan pro Palestine stance a case example). I love football, it's been a drug I can't shake off but i have no warm feelings towards the modern game and its corrupt and greedy administrators.

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Osvaldorama

Osvaldorama

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2 hours ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

I have mixed opinions on this. Part of me says the only place to be is the top-flight as that's where it's at in terms of money, exposure etc etc.

But football has sold its soul (WC to Saudi is just the latest example) and money talks loudest, which means the PL is simply not a level playing field any more. Clubs like Saints will always struggle and who wants to spend their Saturday afternoons (or whenever Sky decide) watching a struggling side who rarely wins (2022-23)? The fans have been shafted by the powers to be. There is no integrity in football and the PL in particular, the officials interpretation of VAR is killing what's left of the game and the players feigning injury has reached pathetic levels. Ticket prices have put the game beyond many, clubs have become corporate entities with fans now regarded as dispensable and problematic if they dare to have a voice (Celtic fan pro Palestine stance a case example). I love football, it's been a drug I can't shake off but i have no warm feelings towards the modern game and its corrupt and greedy administrators.


Amen. Couldn’t agree more with this. Football died the day the Sky Sports Premier League was formed and has been getting worse ever since. 
 

The big clubs are untouchable, meaning the premier league is no longer a sport. 
 

Id prefer to stay in the championship if it didn’t mean being raided over & over again. Proper fans, proper football. 

 

All clubs of our size are stuck between a rock and a hard place really. You have to strive to be the best you can be, but there is a glass ceiling formed by money & corruption. 

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Kenilworthy

Kenilworthy

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1 hour ago, Osvaldorama said:


Amen. Couldn’t agree more with this. Football died the day the Sky Sports Premier League was formed and has been getting worse ever since. 
 

The big clubs are untouchable, meaning the premier league is no longer a sport. 
 

Id prefer to stay in the championship if it didn’t mean being raided over & over again. Proper fans, proper football. 

 

All clubs of our size are stuck between a rock and a hard place really. You have to strive to be the best you can be, but there is a glass ceiling formed by money & corruption. 

We have just celebrated the 40th anniversary of the real death of football - October 2 1983 when Spurs v Forest was the first game on TV as part of the new deal. The TV companies conspired then to put all the money in the hands of the Big Five by covering their games regularly. But Saints went 7 years, from 1984 to 1991, without being shown once. I worked out that the TV coverage gave Liverpool a £1million advantage over Saints before a ball was kicked every season. That may seem nothing now when we can spend £20 million on a player who doesn't play. But back then £1million would buy you Gary Lineker. SKY in 92 just speeded up a process that was already well underway.

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

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5 hours ago, pingpong said:

The best thing that could happen is formation of the European super league. Let the super rich have their own playground, and then we could compete for champions of England in the domestic league.

Sounds great doesn’t it? Until you realise the Sky money would drop to a drip once the big boys have left, along with all the good players, and that the new “premier league” would just be the Championship in drag. 

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SaintTex

SaintTex

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23 hours ago, Hamilton Saint said:

Speaking as a supporter who now lives overseas (in Canada), being in the Premier League is important because it means I can watch Saints play every single game of the season on TV. Now that we have dropped to the Championship, TV coverage is sporadic.

Much as I appreciate the audio commentary of Adam B and Joe T, and enjoy the debates on here, I do like to see the games, so that I can watch the players and form my own opinions. Perhaps we'll get TV coverage of all Championship games in the not-too-distant future. Here's hoping.

This. I think North American supporters will have a different perspective on this. A drop in the Championship has made the Saints far less accessible for us.

  • when we do get TV coverage it is often the 12.30 match, which is 6.30 here. Waking up at 6.15 on Saturday is no fun, but you you do it because your chances are few and far between
  • Peacock/NBC coverage of the PL is pretty outstanding. Every match is available to watch, you will get halftime and postgame highlights of the Saints match. We get none of that in the scant ESPN+ coverage. Aslo, PL matches always had commentary that includes 2 people.  i am not a fan of a single commentator that Championship matches broadcast.
  • God knows how many viruses my phone and laptop now contain in an effort to find a non TV match stream for the Championship.

 

  • Also, i know so little about the clubs and players in the Championship, its hard to get up, for example, for the Millwall match this Saturday. Who the hell plays for Millwall? When we play Liverpool i knew every hated player on that team. It just makes match more interesting. Championship matches feel like friendlies to me at times or early rounds of a Cup. No idea who were are playing. Plus, i am going to spend the first 10 minutes of the Millwall match trying to find a stream that is half watchable.

 

  • I don't miss VAR that is for sure.
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saintstowin

saintstowin

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The fact a point on Saturday would mean we have as many as our 38 game total last season helps me to enjoy it more, than last season. Or the few seasons before that. We've won more games already. 

Happy memories of earlier prem campaigns. 

I like no VAR even if we end up having a goal or two wrongly awarded to the opposition. Human error is part of football.

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adrian lord

adrian lord

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Posted

What I enjoy is hope, anticipation, and some success as perennial underdogs. Whatever the league, but as a general rule, the higher the league that one experiences that, the better it is. But inevitably, these things are less likely the higher up in the pyramid we are. 

There are problems inherent to the Premier League that suffocate the essence of why we love football. I have concluded that VAR, or perhaps the way it is operationalised, is the biggest problem. It kills sporting spontaneity and the elation of the dopamine hit. Superfluous technology rarely improves sport for player or spectator. 

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Saint86

Saint86

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Posted (edited)

Anyone who would rather stay in the championship than be in the prem is being pretty stupid imo. Sorry if that offends. The only reason to drop down to this league is if it can be done as a means to resetting the club and building for a brighter future in the top division - ditto our league 1 minus 10points campaign. By all means enjoy it whilst we're here, but any right minded fan should only want to be in the championship for as short a time as possible - they should want to see saints succeeding at the highest level they can! If anyone is harbouring a hope of us staying at the top of the championship indefinitely then they're living in absolute fairy land - you either get promoted out of this league, or you fall further behind all the clubs richer than you and endure more and more disappointing seasons and eventual relegation. The 2nd and 3rd divisions are littered with examples. 

If all fans care about is winning and being successful, probably should go and pick a man city to support, and then change to whichever club usurps them in a few years time.

Edited by Saint86
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ErwinK1961

ErwinK1961

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7 hours ago, Saint86 said:

Anyone who would rather stay in the championship than be in the prem is being pretty stupid imo. Sorry if that offends. The only reason to drop down to this league is if it can be done as a means to resetting the club and building for a brighter future in the top division - ditto our league 1 minus 10points campaign. By all means enjoy it whilst we're here, but any right minded fan should only want to be in the championship for as short a time as possible - they should want to see saints succeeding at the highest level they can! If anyone is harbouring a hope of us staying at the top of the championship indefinitely then they're living in absolute fairy land - you either get promoted out of this league, or you fall further behind all the clubs richer than you and endure more and more disappointing seasons and eventual relegation. The 2nd and 3rd divisions are littered with examples. 

If all fans care about is winning and being successful, probably should go and pick a man city to support, and then change to whichever club usurps them in a few years time.

I don’t think there’s a Saints fan out there that doesn’t want to see the club succeed at the highest level possible.

The issue is, succeeding in the Prem is just becoming more and more unlikely with the amount of money swashing around bigger clubs. ‘Success’ for the club is finishing 17th, scraping 9-10 wins a season. A top half finish seems so far away. 

You’re right though, if you don’t get promoted you will inevitably end up in a really crap place. 

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saint lard

saint lard

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Posted

Watching Mike Dean on Sky right now trying to stick up for ridiculous refereeing and VAR decisions in the premier league just makes me detest the Premier league even more. The refs are totally inept.  

yes it’s the supposed holy grail of football…but in it’s incarnation with VAR it’s shite  

he's an odious little turd by the way. 
its lovely to say you are in the Prem…but you can’t tell me that it isn’t better in a league that we can compete in and  being able to be spontaneous and celebrate a goal as it happens. 
we will achieve nothing being in the Premier league except the revenue to just about stay fourth from bottom. If we are lucky. 
 

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Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

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5 minutes ago, saint lard said:

...we will achieve nothing being in the Premier league except the revenue to just about stay fourth from bottom. If we are lucky. 

 

Days of glory to pass down to our grandkids. Meh 🙂

6 minutes ago, saint lard said:

Watching Mike Dean on Sky right now trying to stick up for ridiculous refereeing and VAR decisions in the premier league just makes me detest the Premier league even more. The refs are totally inept.  

yes it’s the supposed holy grail of football…but in it’s incarnation with VAR it’s shite  

he's an odious little turd by the way.

Is it Dean they have off to the side on Soccer Saturday? I thought he was being kept apart in case the others throttled him.

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SNSUN

SNSUN

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Posted

VAR is fucked. In the Newky vs Arse game just now they checked for 3 things. 3. The damn stoppage was about 7 minutes. 

 

Newcastle scored.

- did the ball go out of play? Yes.

- was it a foul? No.

- Was it offside? Yes. 

 

But the out of play alone should have been enough to rule that goal out.

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Saint_clark

Saint_clark

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Posted
13 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

VAR is fucked. In the Newky vs Arse game just now they checked for 3 things. 3. The damn stoppage was about 7 minutes. 

 

Newcastle scored.

- did the ball go out of play? Yes.

- was it a foul? No.

- Was it offside? Yes. 

 

But the out of play alone should have been enough to rule that goal out.

Looked close on the out of play one, the ball probably was just over the line keeping it in. 

I thought it was a foul...Gabriel was pushed out the way of the flight of the ball. Without that push the ball connects with his head. 

It can't be offside because Gordon was behind the ball when it was played, irrespective of how many defenders there were.

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maysie

maysie

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Posted

The only thing I miss is the highlights coverage on terrestrial TV MOTD versus EFL highlights on ITV.

Huggy Woodenscroft or whatever his name is at 1 ground and no proper analysis. Just do the usual studio analysis approach, it would easily fix a real bad format.

At least there is no Tactics Truck with nobber Townsend.

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whelk

whelk

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Posted

Twats on SSN talking about VAR for about 20mins. Comments like ‘how can we be at a stage where we haven’t got all the angles?’ FFS there has been football before VAR and guess what, most of us enjoyed it. The bang on like one dodgy decision puts the whole fairness of the league into doubt.

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AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

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Posted
16 hours ago, SNSUN said:

VAR is fucked. In the Newky vs Arse game just now they checked for 3 things. 3. The damn stoppage was about 7 minutes. 

 

Newcastle scored.

- did the ball go out of play? Yes.

- was it a foul? No.

- Was it offside? Yes. 

 

But the out of play alone should have been enough to rule that goal out.

The ball never went out of play

It was a foul

It was not offside

 

happy to help

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Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

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51 minutes ago, whelk said:

Twats on SSN talking about VAR for about 20mins. Comments like ‘how can we be at a stage where we haven’t got all the angles?’ FFS there has been football before VAR and guess what, most of us enjoyed it. The bang on like one dodgy decision puts the whole fairness of the league into doubt.

SSN just concerned about a crisis to such a new sport, that only began with the Premiership, sorry Premier League as it can only be called now. 🙂

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Turkish

Turkish

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1 hour ago, whelk said:

Twats on SSN talking about VAR for about 20mins. Comments like ‘how can we be at a stage where we haven’t got all the angles?’ FFS there has been football before VAR and guess what, most of us enjoyed it. The bang on like one dodgy decision puts the whole fairness of the league into doubt.

It’s brilliant for the TV audience, imagine being in Thailand or Dubai, decked on in your clubs kit watching on TV waiting in anticipation for minutes for a decision to be given for a team you have supported passionately for the last 3 years never missing a game on telly. Who cares about the fans in the ground that can’t celebrate?

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Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

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2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

It’s brilliant for the TV audience, imagine being in Thailand or Dubai, decked on in your clubs kit watching on TV waiting in anticipation for minutes for a decision to be given for a team you have supported passionately for the last 3 years never missing a game on telly. Who cares about the fans in the ground that can’t celebrate?

If VAR is good enough for the veteran supporters we all aspire to become, it should be good enough for us.

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St Louis

St Louis

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Posted

I honestly prefer everything about this league than the Premier League. It's such a strange paradox as we feel we need to get back to the Premier League to play the biggest teams and earn the biggest money, but its a league that is no way as enjoyable to be a part of as the one we are in.

There’s literally nothing I miss about the Premier League… VAR, the non-competitiveness, the media love-in/obsession with the ‘Big 6’, plastic fans supporting teams the other end of the country, over-saturation on the TV/Radio, etc?  I definitely needed a break, and am loving a little optimism every weekend. Surely Burnley, Bournemouth and others aren’t enjoying it so much this season. Yes, I enjoyed the Pochettino and Koeman years as we were Top 5-8 for 5 years or so, but always knew we weren’t big/rich enough to sustain it, as the vultures then took our managers and players. The same happened to Leicester, and will also to Brighton.

I think part of why I am loving this season is it brings back the nostalgia of 80's/90's football for me which I absolutely loved, where the league back then was way more even/competitive. And we are again playing some proper clubs with proper fans (Leeds, Coventry, Sunderland, QPR, Ipswich, Blackburn, Norwich, Sheffield Weds, etc) with all of us on a more even keel, with similar budgets and loyal/local fanbases, I love it. Ive had enough of Liverpool, Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal and now Newcastle, they bore me so much and the media make it worse. 

Part of me hopes the European Super League does happen one day (and their fans can all enjoy it on the telly) and leave the rest of us to it.

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St Louis

St Louis

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2 hours ago, Mr Nimbus said:

The PL has many positives, that mainly relate to the club itself. Increased TV revenue, exposure & higher commercial opportunity.

The PL has overtime, eroded the game of it's connection with the fans. 

So I really am not sure where I stand anymore.

I understand what you are saying, but that isnt enjoying or missing the Premier League more. Its just worrying that we are missing out on revenues, and thats about it. The actual competitive football part of the game for me (and the matchday experiences) are way more enjoyable in the EFL.

I went to the Tottenham Stadium last season (yes I know we lost 1-4) but it was the worst experience of attending football for me, it was just dreadful. Beautiful to look at, but so clinical, fake and 'perfect' (like the Premier League I guess), it was just so soulless (like Wembley). Give me The Den, Elland Road or Hillsborough any day of the week.

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whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, Paulwantsapint81 said:

Is a last minute winner against Millwall in Championship as much fun as a last minute winner against Spurs in Premier?

 

the rise from league one to premier league was amazing & matched by Koeman (had poch team done it would have eclipsed it, as the spine were our players from the rise)

Don’t you miss getting a chance to applaud ‘Bobby’ Firmino off the pitch?

Edited by whelk
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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman

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Posted (edited)

I prefer the authenticity of this league.  Obviously we want to watch the best players we can get and need money to do that and I think we all enjoy the odd occasions where we give the "big clubs" a shock.

But the teams, the players, no bloody VAR! But yes, I want to be promoted still - football is completely hypocritical. 

Edited by Patrick Bateman
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Badger

Badger

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Posted

Occurred to me on Saturday, Saints get a late winner at Millwall and we’re all elated in our competitive league where we can win matches.

Bournemouth lose 6-1 at Man City. No great surprise just a routine tonking for a lower table club v one of the top three. That is the league we’re trying to get back to, earn the right to get stuffed by City etc.

Of course had Millwall scored first rather than hit the bar, we wouldn’t have been so keen on our league. Thin margins and all that. 

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bpsaint

bpsaint

Posted
Posted (edited)

If there was more money in the league then I’d happily stay in the championship, however for a club our size to survive and thrive we need to be in the Prem unfortunately.

I certainly don’t miss VAR though, fucking thing. Watching the Spurs-Chelsea game currently and there’s already been 3 goals ruled out inside of 28 minutes with well over 8 minutes wasted for reviews. Just sucks the fun out of the game.

Edit: oh and a retrospective red card and penalty now.

Edited by bpsaint
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Dellyears

Dellyears

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Posted
2 hours ago, bpsaint said:

If there was more money in the league then I’d happily stay in the championship, however for a club our size to survive and thrive we need to be in the Prem unfortunately.

I certainly don’t miss VAR though, fucking thing. Watching the Spurs-Chelsea game currently and there’s already been 3 goals ruled out inside of 28 minutes with well over 8 minutes wasted for reviews. Just sucks the fun out of the game.

Edit: oh and a retrospective red card and penalty now.

course I want mhy team tom be amolng them

2 hours ago, bpsaint said:

If there was more money in the league then I’d happily stay in the championship, however for a club our size to survive and thrive we need to be in the Prem unfortunately.

I certainly don’t miss VAR though, fucking thing. Watching the Spurs-Chelsea game currently and there’s already been 3 goals ruled out inside of 28 minutes with well over 8 minutes wasted for reviews. Just sucks the fun out of the game.

Edit: oh and a retrospective red card and penalty now.

Yes, pleased to be free of VAR and football as we knew it has been ruined by premier League but I still want Saints to be in it. The glamour, the prestige the best players are there, of course I want my team to be among them.

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Mr Nimbus

Mr Nimbus

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20 hours ago, St Louis said:

I understand what you are saying, but that isnt enjoying or missing the Premier League more. Its just worrying that we are missing out on revenues, and thats about it. The actual competitive football part of the game for me (and the matchday experiences) are way more enjoyable in the EFL.

I went to the Tottenham Stadium last season (yes I know we lost 1-4) but it was the worst experience of attending football for me, it was just dreadful. Beautiful to look at, but so clinical, fake and 'perfect' (like the Premier League I guess), it was just so soulless (like Wembley). Give me The Den, Elland Road or Hillsborough any day of the week.

Sorry I wasn't particularly specific. I in no way miss the PL. 

The main reason I don't, and clubs can state it's not the case, football is now a television product. It's geared towards people around the world, sat in the comfort of their armchairs. VAR, to me is the biggest showing of the hand on this. It's not to get the "correct outcome" (too many of the laws are subjective to ensure this anyway) 

I think it's purely to enhance the TV experience. Just my opinion of course. 

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