Things That are Racist

[whelk]

4 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

 

 

 

Some of my best friends are black

[whelk]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Nicely swerved. Someone who doesn't support mandatory taking the knee in public is not racist. If you disagree, please say. 

Playing the tape forward, is someone who doesn't support mandatory taking the knee in public, a racist for expressing that view?

I haven't said the Millwall boys are or aren't racist. I'm saying it's perfectly acceptable to think that footy players having to take the knee is bollocks. 

 

Not the same argument at all. I think knee taking is stupid now, however actively booing it is clearly offensive as it is standing against racism. I wager the only type of cunt to get animated about it probably has racist views.

Edited 5 December, 2020 by whelk

[Turkish]

9 minutes ago, whelk said:

Some of my best friends are black

Obviously on of the hallmarks of a racist is Someone having friends who aren’t white.

Edited 5 December, 2020 by Turkish

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, whelk said:

Not the same argument at all. I think knee taking is stupid now, however actively booing it is clearly offensive as it is standing against racism. I wager the only type of cunt to get animated about it probably has racist views.

Or it could be someone sick to death of compulsory virtue signaling. I know I am and I’m not racist, my best mate is black.

Edited 5 December, 2020 by Turkish

[Turkish]

12 minutes ago, whelk said:

You must be quite excited at your thread and getting on your little hobby horse again

I feel it’s served it’s purpose 😁

[whelk]

3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Or it could be someone sick to death of compulsory virtue signaling. I know I am and I’m not racist, my best mate is black.

If you were at St Mary’s at the start of the game and were in earshot of say Ryan Bertrand you would boo? And you think that would be seen as being fed up with virtue signalling?

[Lighthouse]

Just now, whelk said:

If you were at St Mary’s at the start of the game and were in earshot of say Ryan Bertrand you would boo? And you think that would be seen as being fed up with virtue signalling?

We all know Millwall fans aren't exactly the type to leave a game early to get to the ballet. Yes, most of them are probably obnoxious bell ends and booing isn't pleasant or helpful but that doesn't necessarily dictate their motives.

[Turkish]

5 minutes ago, whelk said:

If you were at St Mary’s at the start of the game and were in earshot of say Ryan Bertrand you would boo? And you think that would be seen as being fed up with virtue signalling?

No, I’d be there with a rainbow arm band, a it’s okay to be okay t shirt, waving (Halal) jerk chicken Over my head in one hand whilst scrolling through the women’s results on my phone On the other to even notice Bertrand was Near me. 

[Fan The Flames]

Boooo the poppy

[aintforever]

Oh no, not the black friend again

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Or it could be someone sick to death of compulsory virtue signaling. I know I am and I’m not racist, my best mate is black.

How is wearing a poppy not virtual signalling?

[Lighthouse]

18 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Boooo the poppy

 

3 minutes ago, aintforever said:

How is wearing a poppy not virtual signalling?

If BLM kneeling was an optional choice once a season, I doubt anyone would be too upset about it. Likewise if we had a poppy and a minutes silence for every game, fans would soon get fed up.

[Turkish]

14 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Oh no, not the black friend again

You’re not very bright are you, dangerously you think you are, bless.

[Dorchester Saint]

3 hours ago, aintforever said:

If you don’t agree with taking the knee, don’t take the knee. Booing someone for making an anti racist gesture is an odd thing to do if you’re not racist IMO.

 

The taking the knee gesture is directly linked to BLM, Sky themselves use that exact term!! They also have BLACK LIVES MATTER in the corner of the tv screen periodically during televised matches. People are pissed off because BLM is an unsavoury organisation which is being rammed down our throats despite their very dangerous stated aims. Sasha Johnson herself said the “White men will become their slaves” that in itself is racist and Twitter saw fit to remove her as a result. 

[Big M]

I'm astounded at the grief the Millwall fans are getting by their own club for booing at both teams yesterday for taking the knee.I thought football was about sport,an escape for all sorts of people from the community not about political beliefs and virtue signalling.The idiots condemning Millwall fans need to realise football fans want to watch football not have political statements rammed down their throats.Im sick of it to be honest Thoughts.

[austsaint]

15 minutes ago, Big M said:

I'm astounded at the grief the Millwall fans are getting by their own club for booing at both teams yesterday for taking the knee.I thought football was about sport,an escape for all sorts of people from the community not about political beliefs and virtue signalling.The idiots condemning Millwall fans need to realise football fans want to watch football not have political statements rammed down their throats.Im sick of it to be honest Thoughts.

Have a look at footage of the 1936 Olympic Games in Berlin.   Sport may be an escape for many fans but sport has never been free of political influence and ideology.       The people condemning the MIllwall fans are not idiots; most of them just want to see an end to systemic racism.

[Dusic]

In hindsight, it would probably have been better for the players to have made a new gesture rather than one linked to an organisation.

I say that because its clear that players are making the gesture to show they are against any racial injustice - a totally worthy cause that I would assume every single person is aligned with.

They are not doing it to promote the whole manifesto of BLM and most probably don't know what any of that is.

Also players kneeling in silence for a couple of seconds is not really being rammed down the throats of anyone IMO.

From reading the Millwall forum, its clear that in the case of many the whole BLM Marxist thing is a convenient screen.

Interesting topic for a first post after 5 years.

Edited 6 December, 2020 by Dusic

[SuperSAINT]

Millwall fans being Millwall fans.

[ChrisPY]

2 minutes ago, Dusic said:

In hindsight, it would probably have been better for the players to have made a new gesture rather than one linked to an organisation.

I say that because its clear that players are making the gesture to show they are against any racial injustice - a totally worthy cause that I would assume every single person is aligned with.

They are not doing it to promote the whole manifesto of BLM and most probably don't know what any of that is.

Also players kneeling in silence for a couple of seconds is not really being rammed down the throats of anyone IMO.

From reading the Millwall forum, its clear that in the case of many the whole BLM Marxist thing is a convenient screen.

Interesting topic for a first post after 5 years.

Agree with this. Think it’s clear there’s a distinction to be made between players showing solidarity in their belief black lives matter and the organisation Black Lives Matter.

However, I do think taking the knee has probably achieved all it can now and should probably stop.

Les Ferdinand said it perfectly after QPR stopped doing it a few months ago:

’The taking of the knee has reached a point of 'good PR' but little more than that. The message has been lost. It is now not dissimilar to a fancy hashtag or a nice pin badge.

"What are our plans with this? Will people be happy for players to take the knee for the next 10 years but see no actual progress made?

"Taking the knee will not bring about change in the game - actions will.’

[niceandfriendly]

37 minutes ago, Big M said:

I'm astounded at the grief the Millwall fans are getting by their own club for booing at both teams yesterday for taking the knee.I thought football was about sport,an escape for all sorts of people from the community not about political beliefs and virtue signalling.The idiots condemning Millwall fans need to realise football fans want to watch football not have political statements rammed down their throats.Im sick of it to be honest Thoughts.

Millwall fans booed the taking the knee? F*ck me what utter helmets. 

[Dorchester Saint]

Anyone who thinks BLM and the wearing of poppies are even remotely linked, needs a history lesson ....wow. 

[hypochondriac]

I don't think it's helpful for the media in general to just dismiss the Millwall fans as awful rather than attempting to listen to them. Would be much much better to start a dialogue to try to understand why they would be booing this gesture but instead there's just blanket condemnation. Seems counter productive. 

[skintsaint]

well according to Dion Dublin, if you don't agree with the BLM movement you are racist.

[Saints4Prem]

Over the years I think that a minority of Millwall supporters have displayed links with the national front movement and I don’t think that they would listen to reasonable conversations. My own opinion is that the booing can only be seen as racist. Surely whatever your opinion of the black movement is, any verbal attack on it can only be construed in one way. My own experience of Millwall fans is that there are a small minority who use the platform of being “football supporters” to be extremely violent and racist. This is obviously the hard-core few so perhaps if the security videos can identify those who booed (as mentioned on the radio yesterday)someone will be able to have a word with them and ask why they did it 

[egg]

1 minute ago, skintsaint said:

well according to Dion Dublin, if you don't agree with the BLM movement you are racist.

Yep, absolutely ridiculous statement. I believe in racial equality and social justice. BLM don't. 

[Turkish]

8 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

well according to Dion Dublin, if you don't agree with the BLM movement you are racist.

Les Ferdinand must be racist then

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/sep/21/why-qpr-have-stopped-taking-a-knee-les-ferdinand

[aintforever]

10 hours ago, Dorchester Saint said:

The taking the knee gesture is directly linked to BLM, Sky themselves use that exact term!! They also have BLACK LIVES MATTER in the corner of the tv screen periodically during televised matches. People are pissed off because BLM is an unsavoury organisation which is being rammed down our throats despite their very dangerous stated aims. Sasha Johnson herself said the “White men will become their slaves” that in itself is racist and Twitter saw fit to remove her as a result. 

The players made it crystal clear what their taking the knee was for, it was nothing to do with defunding the police or any other weird political idea, it was a simple anti-racism message. 

Anyway, BLM Is a protest movement and like any it’s going to have weird groups and extremists associated to it. Just like climate change protests have all sorts of anti capitalist nut jobs tagging along - it does not  mean the main message is wrong. It’s blatantly obvious to anyone with a brain what the players are wanting to get across.

Edited 6 December, 2020 by aintforever

[LuckyNumber7]

Football / the PL chose to align itself with a divisive political organisation and then acts shocked when not all fans follow along like sheep.

Dublin's comments demonstrate how little most players actually know about what they are 'taking a knee' for.

What was wrong with Kick it Out?

[Turkish]

32 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I don't think it's helpful for the media in general to just dismiss the Millwall fans as awful rather than attempting to listen to them. Would be much much better to start a dialogue to try to understand why they would be booing this gesture but instead there's just blanket condemnation. Seems counter productive. 

We don’t start dialogues with people who don’t agree with what they are told to think, we dismiss their views as bigoted. That’s how it works. 

[Turkish]

Just now, LuckyNumber7 said:

Football / the PL chose to align itself with a divisive political organisation and then acts shocked when not all fans follow along like sheep.

Dublin's comments demonstrate how little most players actually know about what they are 'taking a knee' for.

What was wrong with Kick it Out?

Apparently they booed at West Ham as well  with sky playing music over the top to drown it out. 

[AlexLaw76]

I find the taking the knee unproductive in this country. We are not the USA.

The condemnation by pundits is entirely predictable and absolutely fuel for fans to rebel further as time goes by, as well as numbers in stadiums increase.

It wont be long before it is phased out.

[Weston Super Saint]

6 minutes ago, aintforever said:

The players made it crystal clear what their taking the knee was for, it was nothing to do with defunding the police or any other weird political idea, it was a simple anti-racism message. 

Anyway, BLM Is a protest movement and like any it’s going to have weird groups and extremists associated to it. Just like climate change protests have all sorts of anti capitalist nut jobs tagging along - it does not  mean the main message is wrong. It’s blatantly obvious to anyone with a brain what the players are wanting to get across.

So why the move away from the perfectly reasonable, well established 'kick it out' campaign that was relevant to the football industry?

[bpsaint]

I’m totally against any form of racism in society, however I will not support the BLM group and their dangerous beliefs. Perhaps football, especially Sky, should adopt a new motto that isn’t linked to such a dangerous organisation.

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

I’m totally against any form of racism in society, however I will not support the BLM group and their dangerous beliefs. Perhaps football, especially Sky, should adopt a new motto that isn’t linked to such a dangerous organisation.

Like “Kick it out”? 

[hypochondriac]

33 minutes ago, Saints4Prem said:

Over the years I think that a minority of Millwall supporters have displayed links with the national front movement and I don’t think that they would listen to reasonable conversations. My own opinion is that the booing can only be seen as racist. Surely whatever your opinion of the black movement is, any verbal attack on it can only be construed in one way. My own experience of Millwall fans is that there are a small minority who use the platform of being “football supporters” to be extremely violent and racist. This is obviously the hard-core few so perhaps if the security videos can identify those who booed (as mentioned on the radio yesterday)someone will be able to have a word with them and ask why they did it 

Where is the evidence that they were verbally attacking the black movement? 

[hypochondriac]

19 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I find the taking the knee unproductive in this country. We are not the USA.

The condemnation by pundits is entirely predictable and absolutely fuel for fans to rebel further as time goes by, as well as numbers in stadiums increase.

It wont be long before it is phased out.

When stadiums are full you can guarantee there will be more of it and it will be more widespread. Sadly those with an agenda will just dismiss that as evidence of racism without wondering if there is any more to it than that. 

[beatlesaint]

35 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

well according to Dion Dublin, if you don't agree with the BLM movement you are racist.

Not just him. Michael Holding has expressed similar views.

Are footballers going to continue to take the knee indefinitely then ? Is this now part of the pre-kick off ritual?

I understand why they do it and there is no issue with it whatsoever but I did think this would happen for a few weeks (the end of last season) and at the start of this season be quitely retired. There's gonna be hell to pay when teams decide to stop doing it. Didnt QPR get hammered a couple of months ago for not participating ? 

[Lighthouse]

The media and the various football pundits are clearly well out of touch with the view of a lot of the public. You only have to look at the news stories on social media and a lot of the comments are against either the BLM organisation or the compulsory virtue signalling of kneeling. Yet every live game I watch starts with whichever commentator solemnly telling the viewers, "as ever we take the knee to send out such a powerful statement of unity."

 

The problem people like Dublin have is that they seem to have suspended critical thinking. We’ve got to a point in society where a lot of people think they can’t be wrong and that if someone disagrees with them, they must be the victim of an -ism or a -phobia. There’s no willingness to listen to the other side anymore, just the Maginot Line of, "I’m offended," for egos to hide behind. If Dion assumes racism and stops there then this won’t be the last time and he will go to his grave thinking the world is an awful, racist place.

 

Having said that, I’ve no doubt that a large number of Millwall fans are absolute helmets.

[The Cat]

18 minutes ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

Football / the PL chose to align itself with a divisive political organisation and then acts shocked when not all fans follow along like sheep.

Dublin's comments demonstrate how little most players actually know about what they are 'taking a knee' for.

What was wrong with Kick it Out?

I largely agree with this, especially the part about not the players probably not knowing what's in the BLM manifesto.

When this started it was clearly an attempt to show that racial inequality will not be tolerated. That's obviously a good thing and it's sad we live in an age where people are still face discrimination based on race. 

Taking the knee is a symbolic gesture to show they are upset with inequality at a time when the issue has been catapulted into the global consciousness. It's not supporting the apparent Marxist beliefs of the organisation. Most people wouldn't even know about that, just like most people don't know the ins and outs of the manifesto for whatever political party they vote for. This has now got muddled. 

Kick It Out has been going ages but is underfunded and underused by the FA. They should have been straight on this and aligned and any show of support by the players with their own organisation. As normal though the FA was slow to react.

[Lord Duckhunter]

47 minutes ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

Football / the PL chose to align itself with a divisive political organisation and then acts shocked when not all fans follow along like sheep.

Dublin's comments demonstrate how little most players actually know about what they are 'taking a knee' for.

What was wrong with Kick it Out?

Spot on. 
 

They jumped on a bandwagon & are now performing ridiculous verbal gymnastics to justify it ( like the woke poster on here are). Trying to pretend it was all about black lives matters rather than Black Lives Matter, is disingenuous. For every racist millwall fan pretending the boos were just against that particular organisation and not black people, there are hundreds  of wokies pretending it was never anything to do with Black Lives Matter. 
 

As you say, there was nothing wrong with Kick it out. A simple statement stating the authorities were refreshing and modernising the Kick it out campaign would have sufficed. 
 

What happens when fans come back is as predictable as us chucking away 2 goal leads. They’ll be arguments between people booing & people showing their virtue, the media will highlight one side of the debate and the narrative will be footballs “problem”. This wouldn’t have happened had Kick it out been the vehicle used and gestures like taking the knee only happened once in a blue moon and certainly not as a result of a violent criminal being shot on the other side of the Atlantic. 

Edited 6 December, 2020 by Lord Duckhunter

[View From The Top]

Those who scream abuse at Irish players who won't wear a poppy on their shirts are the same sort of cunts who boo players for an anti racism gesture.

Anyone who believes taking a stance against racism, like players taking a knee, is virtue signalling is simply a racist without the balls to say it out loud.

Only thing worse than a racist is a racist coward.

[Lighthouse]

11 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Kick It Out has been going ages but is underfunded and underused by the FA. They should have been straight on this and aligned and any show of support by the players with their own organisation. As normal though the FA was slow to react.

I wouldn't say that so much as the fact that there's only so much a slogan and a logo can really achieve. Their place and purpose is to raise awareness of an issue; for someone in the 21st century to say they're unaware of the issue of racism is laughable.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Fuck me. This is going to be about as funny as a dose of the clapp.... 
 

 

[saintwbu]

Black Lives Matter surely has to be one of, if not the greatest political group name of all time. It’s impossible for someone to say they don’t agree with Black Lives Matter without someone immediately asking them why they do not believe that black lives matter. Masterful. 

[Wade Garrett]

As someone who has been racially abused, I see no merit in taking the knee any more.

It trivialises a very emotive and complex issue.

Football would make more of a contribution if there were more black managers, coaches and execs.  It goes without saying that any racial abuse from ‘fans’ should result in lifetime bans and prosecution.  

Is booing not taking the knee racist?  I’m not sure.  It doesn’t really help.  Is not supporting Black Lives Matter racist?  I don’t think so.

Edited 6 December, 2020 by Wade Garrett

[Griffo]

Well done to Millwall, hopefully it will be the same in many other grounds up and down the country. If the players and clubs want to get involved in showing their beliefs by taking a knee, then the fans have just as much right to exercise their opinion on it too.

We are one of the most liberal and welcoming societies there is and there is no 'systemic racism' in this country. People are sick and tired of having this forced on them at every single opportunity. Rainbow laces, BLM, transgender day of remembrance, etc etc. 

I will not be supporting an organisation that was born out of misled beliefs on black Americans being 'targeted' by the police, which then led to widespread violence, looting and the desecration of the Churchill statue here, and attempted burning of the Union Flag on the Cenotaph. 

If it continues, hopefully those at St Mary's for the Sheffield United game make their feelings known. 

[egg]

3 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

As someone who has been racially abused, I see no merit in taking the knee any more.

It trivialises a very emotive and complex issue.

Football would make more of a contribution if there were more black managers, coaches and execs.  It goes without saying that any racial abuse from ‘fans’ should result in lifetime bans and prosecution.  

Is booing the not taking knee racist?  I’m not sure.  It doesn’t really help.  Is not supporting Black Lives Matter racist?  I don’t think so.

That post nails it, especially the last paragraph. 

[Lighthouse]

Sam Harris basically puts the situation across as I see it.

[beatlesaint]

I do wonder why taking the knee gets included in highlights of every single match shown on Match Of The Day. We get it, we know its happening, but does it really need to be shown ? "Oh look what a wonderful technique from Patrick Bamford, look how he's got himself into position so well to take the knee"....

Edited 6 December, 2020 by beatlesaint

[Pamplemousse]

I have no issue with players continuing taking of a knee personally, and if our players want to keep on doing so, then I support them.

 

However, booing was totally inevitable. The organisation Black Lives Matter, which sadly have latched onto this, is a horrific group that should be widely condemned for hijacking an anti-racism campaign to push an extremist ideology. Unfortunately, to some, apparently to be anti-racist you have to be left wing, and conversely, if you're not left wing, you're a racist, or an enabler of racism.

 

Kick It Out is totally apolitical, what was wrong with strengthening their message, especially as it well known and well respected as an organisation.

 

In any case, I'd be disappointed if there are boos next weekend at St Mary's. I do believe the players' gestures are meant to show a message about anti-racism, and nothing more.