Saints 3-1 Birmingham - Match Thread

[Baird of the land]

First half was a very good performance. (though a slight offside benefitted us and Bazanu's assault on their striker being ignored by ref also benefitted us)

Didn't think we were very good in the 2nd half. We lost our heads around their goal.

Very relieved when A.Armstrong bagged the 3rd.

Also handy to being playing a Birmingham team(who sacked their manager who was doing well and appointed rooney because he was a bigger name).

 

[bpsaint]

How was the reception for Marian at half time? They showed it briefly on tv, he’s looking well but a reminder Father Time is coming for us all!

Edited 28 October, 2023 by bpsaint

[Saint_clark]

5 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

How was the reception for Marian at half time? The showed it briefly on tv, he’s looking well but a reminder Father Time is coming for us all!

Certainly not the baby faced little forward we remember.

[Totton Saint]

Saints  played like a well oiled machine. Cannot praise them enough. What a difference 3 days make.  But why was crowd so quiet?

[Miltonaggro]

24 minutes ago, saintant said:

Bit harsh on AA. He worked his socks off, scored one, assisted one and could have had a couple more.

He certainly upped the work rate second half and that charge across the pitch to defend was great. First half thought he looked completely out of sorts and a yard behind everything.

[LuckyNumber7]

45 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

How was the reception for Marian at half time? They showed it briefly on tv, he’s looking well but a reminder Father Time is coming for us all!

Got a standing ovation from all four stands as he walked around the pitch. Looked like he really enjoyed it and posed for some photos with fans too. Was great to see him back at SMS!

 

34 minutes ago, Totton Saint said:

Saints  played like a well oiled machine. Cannot praise them enough. What a difference 3 days make.  But why was crowd so quiet?

Always is for the early kick offs. A bit of nerves too in the second half.

[JRM]

3 hours ago, gio1saints said:

THB played the best best ive seen him.
 
Bree was a solid confidence inspiring LB who looked tighter to his player than manning who tends to stand off them a bit more. 
Jan and JWP = classy performances. 
AA deserved his goal. Worked his socks off as usual. 
KS looked good in parts. Bit unlucky with the run of the ball. Decision making still got a high ceiling. 
Stu & Charlie : decent perf.s and delighted my bet tip came good 😎- but Charlie especially got ragged later on . Both v popular players, deservedly so. 
Will and Flynn did what they do very well again. 
Baz- gutted he didn’t score but maybe next week..Aribo- he’s a mountain! 

overall I felt it was a good performance though we again showed our mental stamina is not quite there yet. Brum not a good team but we did what we needed to do. RM subs did the trick so fair do’s to him. 
RM: three fist pumps yes I liked them! 
Marian Pahars : excellent performance covered every blade of grass. A bona fide Saints hero. 

 

Thought THB was dominant in the air, made plenty of interceptions and scored a nice goal, was surprised when the stadium announcer said Bednarek was man of the match 

Midfield looks more coordinated than recent games, can see that bit more quality with players like Stuart Armstrong so comfortable on the ball. 

Important win but top two look uncatchable, surely Ipswich will have a stumble at some point 

[JRM]

51 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

How was the reception for Marian at half time? They showed it briefly on tv, he’s looking well but a reminder Father Time is coming for us all!

He's more the Latvian George Clooney now rather than Michael Owen , think he could tell he was well remembered and loved by the fans 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

Must admit, thought Manning, Smallbone & AA were the first names on RM's teamsheets, so fair play to RM in keeping with Bree after his Preston performance. After today, Manning should find it even harder to get back in to the team.

[JRM]

5 minutes ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

Got a standing ovation from all four stands as he walked around the pitch. Looked like he really enjoyed it and posed for some photos with fans too. Was great to see him back at SMS!

 

Always is for the early kick offs. A bit of nerves too in the second half.

2nd half we reverted to walking football trying to kill off the game and atmosphere suffered as a result, generally for a 12.30 game thought crowd was good. Would expect full house for next game v WBA being 3pm not on the tele 

[JRM]

1 minute ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Must admit, thought Manning, Smallbone & AA were the first names on RM's teamsheets, so fair play to RM in keeping with Bree after his Preston performance. After today, Manning should find it even harder to get back in to the team.

Agree, Bree might not offer as much going forward but gives us aerial presence and is much more clinical in a challenge than Manning ever is, proper defender and we need that 

[RedArmy]

18 minutes ago, JRM said:

Agree, Bree might not offer as much going forward but gives us aerial presence and is much more clinical in a challenge than Manning ever is, proper defender and we need that 

Genuinely didn’t really notice Bree playing, whereas usually Manning is a target for the opposition to exploit and everything seems to come down his side. Bree has to stay in the side now.
Thought Bednarek looked a lot more assured with someone alongside him who isn’t useless too. 
Mannings strength is going forward but we have Sulemana down the left so he’s not really needed for that any more either and Stu and Sulemana link up well anyway. 

[RedArmy]

Oh and we need to sign THB and Downes in January. Both potential future captains. 

[Dark Munster]

1 hour ago, bpsaint said:

How was the reception for Marian at half time? They showed it briefly on tv, he’s looking well but a reminder Father Time is coming for us all!

Did he actually appear? I heard he was out injured.

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, RedArmy said:

Oh and we need to sign THB and Downes in January. Both potential future captains. 

They'll both stay if we're promoted and we'll sign them in the summer (there is an obligation with THB), but they won't be here if we're not promoted - they won't commit in January to anything long term. If we were in Leicester's position, maybe, but we're in the playoff shakeup so it's all unknown.

[Sheaf Saint]

I think I get it now. You could see today when we were playing it around at the back that the players were waiting for a certain amount of Brum players to commit forwards to try and press us, or for certain Brum midfielders to cross a certain threshold, before going for the forward pass into the space they had left.

When Brum made the sub early in the second half, it took us a while to adapt to their new patterns, and as a result we conceded and then had a wobbly period while we worked out who would press where and when. Once we did though, we retook control of the play and from there on Brum obligingly fell into our trap of drawing them out.

I've been very critical of Russball so far, but today it worked perfectly, bar that 5-10 minute spell around when they scored.

[RedArmy]

3 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

They'll both stay if we're promoted and we'll sign them in the summer (there is an obligation with THB), but they won't be here if we're not promoted - they won't commit in January to anything long term. If we were in Leicester's position, maybe, but we're in the playoff shakeup so it's all unknown.

Why? 
 

THB had a good season with Burnley and got promoted but took the step back down to the Championship again this season. He’s still only 21 there’s no reason he wouldn’t commit to another season in the Championship. 

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, RedArmy said:

Why? 
 

THB had a good season with Burnley and got promoted but took the step back down to the Championship again this season. He’s still only 21 there’s no reason he wouldn’t commit to another season in the Championship. 

He's a PL player, he needs to have a crack at the PL sooner rather than later. I don't think he'd waste another year in the Championship with us, same with Downes in my opinion. 

[SNSUN]

Completely missed today's game due to an incident at work but I could feel the LiveScore updates buzzing on my phone in my pocket. When I got time to have a quick look it was 2-1 to Saints and I was thinking "oh here we go" as I expected a late Brum equaliser but I was presently surprised to come on here when i got home and read we scored a third and we actually played well after a few dodgy performances. I'm glad to hear Bree had a good game at left back, glad to hear Charly and THB scored (AA too obviously) and glad to see Downes get MOTM when he's been excellent recently. The table looks a bit better tonight too, just a shame Ipswich and Leicester continue their unstoppable march and Leeds also want to make a fight of it. 

 

I'm looking forward to the highlights later. Keep it up Saints. 

[RedArmy]

16 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I think I get it now. You could see today when we were playing it around at the back that the players were waiting for a certain amount of Brum players to commit forwards to try and press us, or for certain Brum midfielders to cross a certain threshold, before going for the forward pass into the space they had left.

When Brum made the sub early in the second half, it took us a while to adapt to their new patterns, and as a result we conceded and then had a wobbly period while we worked out who would press where and when. Once we did though, we retook control of the play and from there on Brum obligingly fell into our trap of drawing them out.

I've been very critical of Russball so far, but today it worked perfectly, bar that 5-10 minute spell around when they scored.

I sort of agree but we have to finish teams off when we’re on top rather than being happy to sit on a lead and try and close it out with ‘controlled possession’ because it can go wrong very quickly, as it did at Preston and nearly did today. 
 

We’ve already dropped 9 points from winning positions and a better team could have made that at least 11 today. 
 

Another 9 points would have us comfortably in the race for the top 2. 
 

Credit to all of them for the turnaround in form but we can’t rest on our laurels. 
 

 

[Barsiem]

Biggest concern I have is that we haven't won a single game at a canter as of yet.  Even today we had a nervy 15mins after being 2 goals up and looking like we were cruising.  With our quality we should be putting some of the poorer sides like Wednesday, Rotherham and Birmingham to the sword

On the positive I've never known a saints team score so many late goals in games.  If games were 80mins long we'd be in the bottom half!

[Cabrone]

Much better performance today, when we get more direct we look decent. Hopefully this is how we will play going forward.

[Charlie Wayman]

5 hours ago, macca155 said:

 

 

In the end it was a formula win against a weak side. However that has eluded us so far this season, so good to see.

 

It was far more than that. We played them off the park by keeping possession so well and attacking in strength from all directions.  We could have beaten anybody today including the Foxes.

[Chewy]

Really good day for all concerned; even a great half-time (thanks Marian).

KWP had a brain fart which isn’t the managers fault but until then he was probably MOTM so we’ll let him off. We were shaky for about 6 or 7 mins after which is a concern still, but the team is still pretty young. I also loved how we managed to regain control and spent 5 mins with total possession and control which pretty much killed their comeback off. Was still nervous until the 3rd but that’s my scar tissue and in all honesty we never looked at risk again. Very accomplished and professional thanks to the possession play and making all the right subs at the right time - we’ll done!

Like most here, Downes was my MOTM. Thought Bree was quietly excellent - barely noticed him whereas I always notice Manning, mostly for the wrong reasons. Centre backs and keeper good. Charlie and Stu weren’t especially good imho (and I’m a fan of both) but they do both move and probe which makes them hard to mark and creates space elsewhere. Smallbone played well, especially filling in for KWP to allow him to play almost as a winger, which in turn meant Charlie could be  more narrow causing confusion in their marking. And there’s no combating Kamaldeens pace - just need it in the right places for him.

Finally, ArmA has great attitude and work rate but ultimately isn’t the striker we need. Add a good one and performances like todays will get a score line to match.

Extra mention for the officials - Lino missed 3 or 4 offsides first half in our favour, including a goal apparently? And the ref missed a penalty I thought was obvious from 80 yards away. Brilliant!!

Very good day - we had the movement we’ve been crying out for, got width, got support in central attacking areas and utilized our creative players in effective positions. We might also have found a left-back. 
As I said at the start, really good day for all concerned.

[AlexLaw76]

49 minutes ago, Chewy said:

 

Extra mention for the officials - Lino missed 3 or 4 offsides first half in our favour, including a goal apparently? And the ref missed a penalty I thought was obvious from 80 yards away. Brilliant!!

 

Was a ridiculous decision (in our favour)

Edited 28 October, 2023 by AlexLaw76

[sfc4prem]

6 hours ago, spyinthesky said:

KWP for me but agree Downes played well

If we had taken all our chances it could have been six.

 

Can't agree after KWPs error to allow Birmingham a shot on goal

[spyinthesky]

20 minutes ago, sfc4prem said:

Can't agree after KWPs error to allow Birmingham a shot on goal

Good point but he had been wiped out by a bad tackle a bit earlier which the ref didnt give so that may well have affected his mistake.

[Essruu]

3 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Certainly not the baby faced little forward we remember.

All I see when I look at the present day Pahars is a Ted Lasso (Season 3) Nathan Shelley 🫣

[HarvSFC]

 Today was fantastic. First half up there with the Leeds first half performance. Second half a bit more of a difficult watch, but ultimately it was a comfortable victory.

Nice to see the summer signings Downes and Harwood-Bellis coming into their own now. Both showing why they’re on the books of Premier League clubs. I wasn’t really a fan of Bree last season, he didn’t look like a good footballer and I suggested Meghoma against Preston instead. However, Bree’s proving me wrong and he’s taken his chance well, looked very comfortable today, which is the opposite of Manning. Credit to Martin too as he could have easily put Manning straight back into the 11, but he’s going to have to fight to get back in the squad now.

Loved seeing Pahars at half time. I started going to St. Mary’s in 2005 and Pahars was the name I got on the back of my second Saints shirt, Phillips was the first. Unfortunately, Pahars was injured for a lot of that period until he left, but I remember his lap of appreciation then when he left. He also seemed genuinely touched on the pitch today that the club had asked him to come back for this event. One of the good things at the club in recent years is that they’re now acknowledging former favourites and often bringing them out at half time. 

On a tactical front, I noticed we’re putting a hell of a lot of crosses into the box, we scored from three of them, but there were also a few where it just needed a bit better movement and we’d have scored. Stewart’s YouTube highlights suggest he knows where to be, so hopefully he can convert a few more of the crosses coming in. As we saw today, Sulemana got an assist from a cross he’s played a few times in recent matches without an attacker getting on the end of it.

Also shout out to the subs. When Aribo came on, I groaned, and not from excitement, but he was good. Don’t want to see him start, but he has a place in helping us to see out matches. Fraser also, showed his good and bad points (the attempted chip).

We’ve also escaped a few penalty calls so far this season. Stoke, Preston and now Birmingham today. Big club bias? We do seem to be on Sky every other week.

Unbeaten in six, Ipswich are riding the momentum that we had 11 years ago, but our form dropped and we finished two points above West Ham, hopefully we can be the ones to take advantage when Ipswich lose their form.

[austsaint]

7 hours ago, gio1saints said:

THB played the best best ive seen him.
 
Bree was a solid confidence inspiring LB who looked tighter to his player than manning who tends to stand off them a bit more. 
Jan and JWP = classy performances. 
AA deserved his goal. Worked his socks off as usual. 
KS looked good in parts. Bit unlucky with the run of the ball. Decision making still got a high ceiling. 
Stu & Charlie : decent perf.s and delighted my bet tip came good 😎- but Charlie especially got ragged later on . Both v popular players, deservedly so. 
Will and Flynn did what they do very well again. 
Baz- gutted he didn’t score but maybe next week..Aribo- he’s a mountain! 

overall I felt it was a good performance though we again showed our mental stamina is not quite there yet. Brum not a good team but we did what we needed to do. RM subs did the trick so fair do’s to him. 
RM: three fist pumps yes I liked them! 
Marian Pahars : excellent performance covered every blade of grass. A bona fide Saints hero. 

 

You have copped a bit of flak on this forum; some of it probably  justified following your "lecturing" style towards critics of RM and his system, tactics, team selections etc.    Today, many of those Martin critics (me included) can easily give him credit for picking just about the best side - employing a faster movement of the ball and using the subs bench well.     He also gets praise for removing the suspicion that Manning was undroppable, and he's noticed that a player like Bree, judging by his last two appearances offers a better all round defender game.

Your summary is good too - the only point of difference I have is questioning whether Will and Flynn deserve an equal billing for "what they do very well again".     I might be too harsh on Smallbone but I'd rate Downes game as close to best on the ground as he controlled the midfield, intercepted and passed faultlessly.   Smallbone on the other hand seems locked into a simple recycling role with lots of premeditated short passes; he often seems to be beaten (for pace) by fast, counter-attacking players and while his technical skills are good, he doesn't seem to be on the same wave length as attacking players like Stu, KWP, Sulemana, Alcaraz when he pushes forward.      I hope that RM puts the microscope on WS' continued automatic selection in the side when a player like Stewart becomes available.     Just as he's seen that there's an alternative to Manning's place in the team, it may be that the likes of Alcaraz and Charles offer more to our CM/AM roles than   WS does.   Either way, a strengthening of CM in January may be the missing part of a really strong starting 11, assuming Stewart is the answer to our striker deficiencies.

[warsash saint]

In my opinion i saw no real difference in the performance to the Rotherham game - I am not saying that in a bad way.  As many chances created....we don't take them 2 weeks ago & today we do.  Yet the knee jerk boys on here go from the sack the 'useless ****', to Martin is the new messiah ... only on TSF!!

Edited 28 October, 2023 by warsash saint

[macca155]

I can't say I'm looking forward to when VAR is introduced to the Championship, hopefully a long way down the line.

Having seen the recording, THB was offside, and how that wasn't a penalty is beyond me. Bazuna's reckless challenge was obvious at the game, but I had no idea that THB was offside. It was pretty clear, surprised the lino missed it.

Smallbone had a shout for a Pen but it would have been soft. Similarly the handball could have been given but pretty harsh if it was.

That game could have finished 2-2 or 3-2, definitely squeaky bum time at the end.

Saints definitely seem to be on the right side of refs at the moment. Strange feeling, doubt it will last.

[Roo1976]

Are we ever going to keep a clean sheet?....................................................

[CSA96]

34 minutes ago, Roo1976 said:

Are we ever going to keep a clean sheet?....................................................

https://www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11095/12975102/stoke-city-0-1-southampton-stuart-armstrong-free-kick-seals-win-for-saints

Edited 29 October, 2023 by CSA96

[rooney]

12 hours ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

Got a standing ovation from all four stands as he walked around the pitch. Looked like he really enjoyed it and posed for some photos with fans too. Was great to see him back at SMS!

 

Always is for the early kick offs. A bit of nerves too in the second half.

Anybody got any clips of Marians s he walked around the pitch? 

[Sheaf Saint]

7 hours ago, macca155 said:

I can't say I'm looking forward to when VAR is introduced to the Championship, hopefully a long way down the line.

Having seen the recording, THB was offside, and how that wasn't a penalty is beyond me. Bazuna's reckless challenge was obvious at the game, but I had no idea that THB was offside. It was pretty clear, surprised the lino missed it.

Smallbone had a shout for a Pen but it would have been soft. Similarly the handball could have been given but pretty harsh if it was.

That game could have finished 2-2 or 3-2, definitely squeaky bum time at the end.

Saints definitely seem to be on the right side of refs at the moment. Strange feeling, doubt it will last.

There was also a blatant shirt pull on Arma in the first half as he tried to get on the end of a through ball from FD, but it wasn't clear if it was inside the box or not from the one replay they showed. Would definitely have been picked up and given by VAR if it was because the ref missed it completely.

Edited 29 October, 2023 by Sheaf Saint

[Whitey Grandad]

8 hours ago, macca155 said:

I can't say I'm looking forward to when VAR is introduced to the Championship, hopefully a long way down the line.

Having seen the recording, THB was offside, and how that wasn't a penalty is beyond me. Bazuna's reckless challenge was obvious at the game, but I had no idea that THB was offside. It was pretty clear, surprised the lino missed it.

Smallbone had a shout for a Pen but it would have been soft. Similarly the handball could have been given but pretty harsh if it was.

That game could have finished 2-2 or 3-2, definitely squeaky bum time at the end.

Saints definitely seem to be on the right side of refs at the moment. Strange feeling, doubt it will last.

The Championship have decided against it.

Offside? Not enough that you’d have noticed. It was the exactly the sort of offside situation that football has been using for decades. Only VAR could possibly have given it.

Why do you think Bazunu’s attempt was a penalty? It was as much the attacker backing in as anything. It was a natural coming together.

[Fan The Flames]

8 hours ago, warsash saint said:

In my opinion i saw no real difference in the performance to the Rotherham game - I am not saying that in a bad way.  As many chances created....we don't take them 2 weeks ago & today we do.  Yet the knee jerk boys on here go from the sack the 'useless ****', to Martin is the new messiah ... only on TSF!!

I think you'll find it's only on every football forum ever. 

[SNSUN]

22 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

The Championship have decided against it.

Offside? Not enough that you’d have noticed. It was the exactly the sort of offside situation that football has been using for decades. Only VAR could possibly have given it.

Why do you think Bazunu’s attempt was a penalty? It was as much the attacker backing in as anything. It was a natural coming together.

I only saw the highlights but at first glance it looked like a Brum player's arm was keeping THB onside. Not that I fully ever understand the rules. However knowing VAR there would have been multiple lines drawn at quirky angles and a 5 minutes stoppage in play so I'm quite glad we don't have it in the Championship. I'm sure whether it was offside or not we'll get similar decisions for/against us this season at some point.

Whether or not the Baz challenge was a penalty (I do think many refs would have given it), I know if it had happened against us, as a fan, I'd have been fuming with the decision.

[Baird of the land]

Baz’s challenge was 100% a penalty. Just like the 1 at he start of the season where’s Man U keeper got away with it and referee’s apologized afterwards.

It was probably offside but the benefit of doubt is meant to go to the attacker, so hardly a glaring error in my eyes.

[Whitey Grandad]

7 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

Baz’s challenge was 100% a penalty. Just like the 1 at he start of the season where’s Man U keeper got away with it and referee’s apologized afterwards.

It was probably offside but the benefit of doubt is meant to go to the attacker, so hardly a glaring error in my eyes.

How can I have been 100% when the referee saw it differently?

Why do you consider it to have been a foul? Isn’t the attacker also fouling Bazunu by backing into him thus preventing him from getting to the ball?

It was a natural’ coming together’.

[Whitey Grandad]

47 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

I only saw the highlights but at first glance it looked like a Brum player's arm was keeping THB onside. Not that I fully ever understand the rules. However knowing VAR there would have been multiple lines drawn at quirky angles and a 5 minutes stoppage in play so I'm quite glad we don't have it in the Championship. I'm sure whether it was offside or not we'll get similar decisions for/against us this season at some point.

Whether or not the Baz challenge was a penalty (I do think many refs would have given it), I know if it had happened against us, as a fan, I'd have been fuming with the decision.

The arms don’t count when considering offsides.

[Saint_clark]

1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

How can I have been 100% when the referee saw it differently?

Why do you consider it to have been a foul? Isn’t the attacker also fouling Bazunu by backing into him thus preventing him from getting to the ball?

It was a natural’ coming together’.

The player wasn't backing into him, he jumped for a header. The Brum player got it spot on, timed his run, his jump and header and won the ball. 

Baz came flying in recklessly, got nowhere near the ball and completely floored the player. 

[Harry_SFC]

41 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

Baz’s challenge was 100% a penalty. Just like the 1 at he start of the season where’s Man U keeper got away with it and referee’s apologized afterwards.

It was probably offside but the benefit of doubt is meant to go to the attacker, so hardly a glaring error in my eyes.

Agreed. Blatant penalty. The Brum attacker heads it first, Bazunu misses the ball and clatters into the back of him.

The offside was a very tight call for the lino and im sure we will have a few of those against us.

[Whitey Grandad]

Just now, Saint_clark said:

The player wasn't backing into him, he jumped for a header. The Brum player got it spot on, timed his run, his jump and header and won the ball. 

Baz came flying in recklessly, got nowhere near the ball and completely floored the player. 

Look at it again, like I just have. Their player was running backwards.

[Saint_clark]

1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Look at it again, like I just have. Their player was running backwards.

Running for the ball, timing his run and header perfectly to win said ball. He wasn't backing into the keeper at all - Baz came flying out. 

[saintant]

9 hours ago, macca155 said:

I can't say I'm looking forward to when VAR is introduced to the Championship, hopefully a long way down the line.

Having seen the recording, THB was offside, and how that wasn't a penalty is beyond me. Bazuna's reckless challenge was obvious at the game, but I had no idea that THB was offside. It was pretty clear, surprised the lino missed it.

Smallbone had a shout for a Pen but it would have been soft. Similarly the handball could have been given but pretty harsh if it was.

That game could have finished 2-2 or 3-2, definitely squeaky bum time at the end.

Saints definitely seem to be on the right side of refs at the moment. Strange feeling, doubt it will last.

As to decisions going our way I would argue that the ref missed a blatant scissor kick on KWP. We didn't get what was a clear free kick, Brum brought on their sub and they scored immediately. Ref gives us the free kick and Brum don't score because the pattern of the game is changed.

[West end Saints]

Was it much different from Pope on Djenepo last season? 

Like most I have double standards on this, often moan that other keepers get away with too much and are too protected but happy to benefit when it is in our favour. 

That was my view yesterday. 

Having seen the replay, I think it was even less likely to be given - the forward had knocked the ball on, then Bazunu clattered him - ball already lost, GB had every right to go for it, then heavy coming together. 

[saintant]

56 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

I only saw the highlights but at first glance it looked like a Brum player's arm was keeping THB onside. Not that I fully ever understand the rules. However knowing VAR there would have been multiple lines drawn at quirky angles and a 5 minutes stoppage in play so I'm quite glad we don't have it in the Championship. I'm sure whether it was offside or not we'll get similar decisions for/against us this season at some point.

Whether or not the Baz challenge was a penalty (I do think many refs would have given it), I know if it had happened against us, as a fan, I'd have been fuming with the decision.

The penalty is a strange one because there was a very similar incident when Wolves played Man Utd. The Utd keeper cleaned out a Wolves striker just like yesterday and VAR looked at it but decided no penalty. I'm baffled because I thought both were blatant penalties but perhaps we are misinterpreting the rules. I did notice that Sky asked our old mate Mike Dean and he said it was a blatant penalty. 

[gio1saints]

10 hours ago, austsaint said:

You have copped a bit of flak on this forum; some of it probably  justified following your "lecturing" style towards critics of RM and his system, tactics, team selections etc.    Today, many of those Martin critics (me included) can easily give him credit for picking just about the best side - employing a faster movement of the ball and using the subs bench well.     He also gets praise for removing the suspicion that Manning was undroppable, and he's noticed that a player like Bree, judging by his last two appearances offers a better all round defender game.

Your summary is good too - the only point of difference I have is questioning whether Will and Flynn deserve an equal billing for "what they do very well again".     I might be too harsh on Smallbone but I'd rate Downes game as close to best on the ground as he controlled the midfield, intercepted and passed faultlessly.   Smallbone on the other hand seems locked into a simple recycling role with lots of premeditated short passes; he often seems to be beaten (for pace) by fast, counter-attacking players and while his technical skills are good, he doesn't seem to be on the same wave length as attacking players like Stu, KWP, Sulemana, Alcaraz when he pushes forward.      I hope that RM puts the microscope on WS' continued automatic selection in the side when a player like Stewart becomes available.     Just as he's seen that there's an alternative to Manning's place in the team, it may be that the likes of Alcaraz and Charles offer more to our CM/AM roles than   WS does.   Either way, a strengthening of CM in January may be the missing part of a really strong starting 11, assuming Stewart is the answer to our striker deficiencies.

Thank you for kind words. 
On one level I agree with your assessment on Will - Flynn is certainly the more obviously accomplished player. 
However? I think , and this is despite agreeing  somewhat that I’d like to see more obvious attacking kind of play in that mf role, but Will actually plays a VERY important role in the team. 
I think we agree Will mainly recycles ball  ( apart from popping g up late to score from cutbacks of course ) but in that respect he may be regarded as our @ water carrier@, every team needs a selfless player. Willing to be patient do the yards make themselves available for the pas that may not come. Stick their foot in to make afoul if necessary etc. It was Oriels job description basically- but there have been many more lauded ( though oriel does that for Barca now) . One the springs to mind is Deschamps. 
 

 

Most teams have one or two guys that act as metronomes for the tempo. Saints have got two, Flynn and Will and they are practically both have the same job  except Flyn. Seems a better overall player even if Will currently out scoring him. 
In short: Having Will AND Flynn in the team means KS or Sam or Charlie or Stu or KWP even AA and manning/ Bree have  much more latitude to show their flair than otherwise. 😇

Edited 29 October, 2023 by gio1saints