Saints 1-1 Charlton - Match Thread

[trousers]

24 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Peretz still has credit in his account because he has shown that he is capable of pulling off some good saves.

Pretty much everyone on this thread agrees that he could, and probably should, have done better with that shot today.

When he starts letting those in every single time, then he will deservedly start getting the same criticism as Bazunu.

Indeed. It's not difficult, is it...?

[Sheaf Saint]

10 minutes ago, trousers said:

Indeed. It's not difficult, is it...?

It is to some, apparently.

[Pamplemousse]

Disappointing outcome but only one team was trying to win that.

We did the same to teams last season as Charlton did and fluked our way to results (think Man City at home) - it happens. We played well, move on and win on Tuesday.

Edited 16 hours ago by Pamplemousse

[washsaint]

Sometimes you have to just say fair play about the opposition.  Very limited but defended really well and were obviously keen for payback from the reverse fixture.

Thought both Stewart and Larin played well and were a real handful.......shame our geniuses at SR didn't recognize this at the start of the season insetad of wasting money on an unknow quantity who turned out to be pretending to be a footballer.

For me both Azaz and Fellows have been underwhelming all season apart from one purple patch.  For those saying the Christmas results will be why we don't make the play offs I don't think that's the case: it was the position WIll Still left us in (13 games played, 12 points.  Since then we have 35 points from 20 games which would clearly be enough to finish in the play offs at least over the course of a season)

[AlexLaw76]

3 minutes ago, washsaint said:

Sometimes you have to just say fair play about the opposition.  Very limited but defended really well and were obviously keen for payback from the reverse fixture.

Thought both Stewart and Larin played well and were a real handful.......shame our geniuses at SR didn't recognize this at the start of the season insetad of wasting money on an unknow quantity who turned out to be pretending to be a footballer.

For me both Azaz and Fellows have been underwhelming all season apart from one purple patch.  For those saying the Christmas results will be why we don't make the play offs I don't think that's the case: it was the position WIll Still left us in (13 games played, 12 points.  Since then we have 35 points from 20 games which would clearly be enough to finish in the play offs at least over the course of a season)

That is fair. Results like this happen for team nearer the top (we have done this to better teams plenty over the years).

The first couple of month, under that horrific manager, killed this season.....coupled with the insane belief 3 at the back was the way ahead

[stknowle]

1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Peretz still has credit in his account because he has shown that he is capable of pulling off some good saves.

Pretty much everyone on this thread agrees that he could, and probably should, have done better with that shot today.

When he starts letting those in every single time, then he will deservedly start getting the same criticism as Bazunu.

Inevitable that certain individuals would latch on to that goal as vindication of BAZ and his consistent 1 star goalkeeping. 

[Lighthouse]

3 minutes ago, stknowle said:

Inevitable that certain individuals would latch on to that goal as vindication of BAZ and his consistent 1 star goalkeeping. 

That one goal, and at least two against Leicester, when he had a 0% save percentage, and the goal at Pompey, both goals at Doncaster and the second against Hull. That and having roughly the same save percentage overall this season. 

Criticise Baz all you want but when Peretz is getting off scot-free for very similar performances it looks more than a little biased.

[AlexLaw76]

What is the option fee for Peretz?

 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

Our group's half time chat concluded with an early second half goal, the game's as good as won. Well that worked out well.

It's easy to under-estimate the psychology in sport. Once again, we scored and sat back. FFS, go for the kill.

And something's got to be done about time wasting. That lump of a sub they brought on went down like a shot with the lightest of touches. It's time to allow play to continue and even with the head injuries, the ref can call help on to the pitch but play around them. And we've been just as bad recently when we've been one up.  

[Paul_B]

2 hours ago, Cabrone said:

Typical Saints, work yourself into a decent position and then bottle it.

Knowing us we'll beat Coventry at their place in a month's time to balance this one out.

What a downer.

We really won't.

[Give it to Ron]

10 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

That one goal, and at least two against Leicester, when he had a 0% save percentage, and the goal at Pompey, both goals at Doncaster and the second against Hull. That and having roughly the same save percentage overall this season. 

Criticise Baz all you want but when Peretz is getting off scot-free for very similar performances it looks more than a little biased.

Where is he getting off Scot free? It’s only you Baz fan club members saying that …get over it he is gone for a few months.

Perez IS slightly better , today he should have done better but Ive watched those go in for 3 years though.

[Badger]

4 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

If we miss the playoffs it will be because we took 3 points in 7 games either side of Christmas, not because we drew today.

No, although those Christmas results haven’t helped, the failure to go up (let alone reach the playoffs) will be due to the ridiculous appointment of Will Still. Then keeping him in post over a month too long 
 

[The Kraken]

19 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

That one goal, and at least two against Leicester, when he had a 0% save percentage, and the goal at Pompey, both goals at Doncaster and the second against Hull. That and having roughly the same save percentage overall this season. 

Criticise Baz all you want but when Peretz is getting off scot-free for very similar performances it looks more than a little biased.

He’s not getting off scot free at all. You just made that up, which is a ridiculous thing to do.

[Charlie Wayman]

Certainly a disappointing performance from Saints but Jones team had done their homework, sat deep and frustrated all our efforts to penetrate their front line. Kudos to them but it highlighted the lack of creativity in our team and to a certain extent a lack of leadership when the going gets tough. 

Scant pickings for Sienza and Fellows today as they were well marshalled by their fullbacks. Fellows had another poor game irrespectively of the close marking and seems to have lost confidence. IMO it was a mistake to start him over Matsuki who has been performing dynamically in recent matches. The high spot for us was undoubtedly Stewart's well taken header, really classy stuff from the big man.

Their goal was disappointing; awful defending by Stephens and Manning allowed Carey far too much space to pick his spot but Peretz could have and should have done better and will have nightmares after his howler.

Charlton did not deserve a point but Saints showed that they still have much to do to convince that they really are serious candidates for promotion. On this showing they are not.

We can expect a similar pattern of play on Tuesday evening and if we can't come uo with some clever tactics to overcome visitors sitting back in a low block at SMS in the meantime, one fears our season will start to peter out.

Edited 14 hours ago by Charlie Wayman

[Ex Lion Tamer]

2 hours ago, Badger said:

No, although those Christmas results haven’t helped, the failure to go up (let alone reach the playoffs) will be due to the ridiculous appointment of Will Still. Then keeping him in post over a month too long 
 

Consensus on here was that it was a decent appointment, despite his pretty average record, so not sure it can be called ridiculous

Edited 13 hours ago by Ex Lion Tamer

[bugenhagen]

1 minute ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Consensus on here was that it was a decent appointment, despite his pretty average record, so not sure it can be called ridiculous

In hindsight, it was ridiculous in hindsight. Come on, it's how we roll on here, isn't it? 😉

[Patrick Bateman]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

What is the option fee for Peretz?

 

It's under £10m. He should be snapped up, far better than any other options we have. Ramsdale won't be at Saints next season regardless. 

[austsaint]

2 hours ago, washsaint said:

Sometimes you have to just say fair play about the opposition.  Very limited but defended really well and were obviously keen for payback from the reverse fixture.

Thought both Stewart and Larin played well and were a real handful.......shame our geniuses at SR didn't recognize this at the start of the season insetad of wasting money on an unknow quantity who turned out to be pretending to be a footballer.

For me both Azaz and Fellows have been underwhelming all season apart from one purple patch.  For those saying the Christmas results will be why we don't make the play offs I don't think that's the case: it was the position WIll Still left us in (13 games played, 12 points.  Since then we have 35 points from 20 games which would clearly be enough to finish in the play offs at least over the course of a season)

Yep.  Tonda didn’t do a lot wrong today but when it was apparent before the 60 minute mark that Azaz and Fellows weren’t having great days, he could have replaced Fellows with Edozie ( or switch Scienza to the right, Edozie to the left) and Azaz with Matsuki.   Whatever the reason behind Edozie’s absence, he must be used more, his direct run, trickery and variety of crosses are much more effective than Fellows’ current form.   As washsaint suggests, a limited but well organised Charlton frustrated Saints dominance.   Peretz definitely should have done better with the goal but he’s comfortably a better keeper than Baz.   Downes was good, before he lost his head; Charles excellent, THB very good.    Classy goal from Stewart.   Beat QPR and todays frustration will pass quickly.

[macca155]

A lot of our competitors lost today. After a winning run, a draw was on the cards at some stage. It happens, opposing teams work out a strategy to negate our threats, and we've seen Saints struggle against a negative defensive block for many years.

Tonda seems to be learning to adapt, although a tad too slow for my tastes. Hopefully he has something up his sleeve for QPR.

A win would have been nice, but they didn't lose, and gained ground on a number of teams.

Just need to keep going, with our horrific start to the season, it was always going to go to the wire.

[SNSUN]

22 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

It's under £10m. He should be snapped up, far better than any other options we have. Ramsdale won't be at Saints next season regardless. 

I can see Ramsdale back if we go up. But I'd still try to sign Peretz too. Best set of GK's we'd have had in years that would be. 

But I don't think we go up this season, so get Peretz in and sign someone half decent as a back up. Shea's brother or someone like that. 

[SaintBobby]

Good performance overall. We win that 9 times out of ten.

Fair play to Charlton, they defended brilliantly and were well organised.

Thems are the breaks.

[LoyalSaintSO50]

1 hour ago, Patrick Bateman said:

It's under £10m. He should be snapped up, far better than any other options we have. Ramsdale won't be at Saints next season regardless. 

Are you being serious? Watch the Charlton goal again, soft as shite. Another in a long line of poor goal keeping appointments. I don’t actually see what he’s good at other than being a ‘character’. 

[HKsaint]

We miss Arma badly

[Pilchards]

What is sad for me is our guys had two extra games rest compared to Charlton and yet we couldn’t beat them at home.

QPR will be tough while Sheffield Wednesday will be a doddle. Please start with your strongest team Tonda.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

8 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Charlton did not deserve a point but Saints showed that they still have much to do to convince that they really are serious candidates for promotion. On this showing they are not.

We can expect a similar pattern of play on Tuesday evening and if we can't come uo with some clever tactics to overcome visitors sitting back in a low block at SMS in the meantime, one fears our season will start to peter out

My sentiments entirely. Their fans were singing "We are staying up" at the end and that was the extent of our opposition yesterday. Almost level with Blackburn as one of the worse teams I've seen this season, and yes, we're going to have the odd blip, but to create one meaningful chance every 15 minutes or so against this standard of opposition isn't good enough.

If not the tempo, we need the level of wanting to score and puuting the ball in the penalty box that we showed in the last ten minutes. We wasted far too much time passing sideways and backwards.

[aintforever]

8 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Consensus on here was that it was a decent appointment, despite his pretty average record, so not sure it can be called ridiculous

That’s bollocks, plenty on here said it was a pointless gamble at the time.

[Wade Garrett]

11 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

What is the option fee for Peretz?

 

Not sure.  But there will be much better options in the Summer.

Of course he’s better than Bazunu, who isn’t?  But he’s not really pulling up any trees.

[Challenger]

8 hours ago, SaintBobby said:

Good performance overall. We win that 9 times out of ten.

Fair play to Charlton, they defended brilliantly and were well organised.

Thems are the breaks.

Sorry, hate to pick an argument, but I've followed this lot long enough to know that they don't win games like that 9 times out of 10.

[Badger]

9 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Consensus on here was that it was a decent appointment, despite his pretty average record, so not sure it can be called ridiculous

Some may have lapped it up on the back of his appearance with Carragher , and a French journalist praising him but several - me included - thought it ridiculous and a huge risk at the time. 
 

 

 

 

 

[Badger]

2 minutes ago, Challenger said:

Sorry, hate to pick an argument, but I've followed this lot long enough to know that they don't win games like that 9 times out of 10.

Yes, the spurious argument of “on another day…” . Naive and over optimistic in the extreme. 
 

As you say if you’ve watched Saints long enough,or just in recent years,  you know that other day seldom comes. If anything, ‘on another day’ someone slips in their arse in the last minute and Charlton or whoever sneak a 2-1 on the break. At least that didn’t happen. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Just one of those days, provided we win the next 2 it won’t make much of a difference as we were never going to win all our remaining games. 
 

As for the game. Charlton defended for their lives and made it difficult for us. The big fella who came on put himself about a bit and led to 10 mins where they equalised and had us unsettled for a bit. Fair play to Jones as he replaced what looked like their most dangerous player and put us on the back foot a bit. The goal looked like one of those “could he have done better”, very Baz like. Every keeper has them occasionally, the difference is “occasionally “ means most weeks in Baz’s world.

Ross Stewart is class imo, intelligent movement, good touch and quite strong.Without his injury record he’d be a premier league player, no bother. Shea Charles was class as well, & I thought Edozie added something. I’d like to know why he’s been left out in the cold because it baffles me. I thought Manning had one of his better games as well, but I wish he’d knock it in the box a bit more when the big lump is up top. 
 

Downside, Fellows still doesn’t look right, Azaz was frustrating again and I thought Downes was a bit of a cock ay the end. That spat, disrupted our rhythm a bit and played right into their hands. 
 

Overall a frustrating day, but that’s football…

[OneMrsWallace]

13 hours ago, washsaint said:

Sometimes you have to just say fair play about the opposition.  Very limited but defended really well and were obviously keen for payback from the reverse fixture.

Thought both Stewart and Larin played well and were a real handful.......shame our geniuses at SR didn't recognize this at the start of the season insetad of wasting money on an unknow quantity who turned out to be pretending to be a footballer.

For me both Azaz and Fellows have been underwhelming all season apart from one purple patch.  For those saying the Christmas results will be why we don't make the play offs I don't think that's the case: it was the position WIll Still left us in (13 games played, 12 points.  Since then we have 35 points from 20 games which would clearly be enough to finish in the play offs at least over the course of a season)

Combination of Still and Christmas but that's history now, we've known even play offs were unlikely for some time, although not impossible. I think Fellows could prove another poor buy from SR. Seems largely disinterested but that could be a hangover from his spells at RB. Weird season all round.

[die Mannyschaft]

13 hours ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Our group's half time chat concluded with an early second half goal, the game's as good as won. Well that worked out well.

It's easy to under-estimate the psychology in sport. Once again, we scored and sat back. FFS, go for the kill.

And something's got to be done about time wasting. That lump of a sub they brought on went down like a shot with the lightest of touches. It's time to allow play to continue and even with the head injuries, the ref can call help on to the pitch but play around them. And we've been just as bad recently when we've been one up.  

Gone back to keep ball 2nd half. I cant understand how we can play like 2nd half v Leicester by keeping the attacks going to score then a completely flat performance v Charlton.  Maybe as I suspect Charlton was a lets at least get a draw as be cant get through low block 9 at the back teams and hope we get 3 points v qpr and wendesday 

[Kenilworthy1959]

While Fellows was disappointing he did supply a really good cross to Scienza for the shot blocked on the line early in the game. What happened with the Downes scuffle where he got a yellow card? I didn't really have a clear view.

[Harry_SFC]

15 minutes ago, OneMrsWallace said:

Combination of Still and Christmas but that's history now, we've known even play offs were unlikely for some time, although not impossible. I think Fellows could prove another poor buy from SR. Seems largely disinterested but that could be a hangover from his spells at RB. Weird season all round.

I don't think you can blame SR for buying Fellows. One of the best players in the league last season. For one reason or another he obviously hasn't hit those heights here yet. 

[kitch]

18 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Lucky lucky boy Flynn.

Something really seemed to rattle him, no idea what

[Badger]

23 minutes ago, Kenilworthy1959 said:

While Fellows was disappointing he did supply a really good cross to Scienza for the shot blocked on the line early in the game. What happened with the Downes scuffle where he got a yellow card? I didn't really have a clear view.

there seemed to be a skirmish between a few players. Most separated but from where I was - opposite end of the ground - Downes appeared to lean his head in towards the Charlton bloke. Not a close up view by any means but I was half expecting a red card to come out for him( possibly a Charlton player as well) 

[Badger]

16 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

 

Shea Charles may have broken a record today for the amount of times he gave the ball away.  
 

 

16 hours ago, stfrancisofbenali said:

Lost control and composure when Charles came off. Best player on the pitch. I know it’s difficult managing minutes of players returning from injury but at this stage of the season you need to be ruthless. 

Sometimes it seems people are watching different games. 
 

Thought Charles quality shone through in the first half, less involved in the second, although was a bit surprised he went off. At the time I wondered if the thought was Jander is more creative going forward, although a couple of people thought he’d slowed down after taking a knock which might explain him going off. 
 

As for being “ruthless” this might cut the other way, leave him on and see him pull up as he did at Blackburn and out again for another two months. 

[Badger]

16 hours ago, miltonroad said:

Great effort with the Nathan Jones chants; fucking moronic and was never going to work in our favour. So predictable, mad Nate is laughing at the obsessed ones. 

First one was about fifteen seconds in!  Immediately after we scored the crowd lifted, but not an OWTS but the Nathan Jones song  …. Terrace muppetry  at its finest. 
 

In fairness to Jones when he did come on the pitch at the end I saw him being very sportsmanlike to our players, without any gestures to the crowd. So who’s the biggest knobhead out there Jones or Lampard ? 

[S-Clarke]

I felt it was just one of those days, I think we've seen a hell of a lot worse this season. In the first half I think we should have had at least 1 goal, they made a great block on the line from Leo as that was in otherwise. (think that was the first 5mins).

I didn't think we stretched them enough though, certainly second half. We could have used Fellows and Leo more to stretch it, but they were coming inside into any area already crowded. It was your typical Nathan Jones backs to the wall low block, nothing spectacular about it - but those games need players willing to break the lines and get in behind, that's how you beat those.

So the main criticism is our lack of width at times and our habit to come inside all the time, the subs didn't change that as Matsuki is naturally as central. Edozie was the only player doing a true 'wide' performance in that game, and it did make a difference.

We were never going to win 3 games in a week, the results around us could have been worse - but if we're honest, the playoffs have always been a longshot. We look like your typical 10th/11th placed team to me.

Edited 1 hour ago by S-Clarke

[Toadhall Saint]

How did we not win that? On another day we go in 3 to the good at half time.

[coalman]

When teams sit back like that we need the option of playing two up top. Azaz isn't going to find the magic through ball but we can pepper their box with crosses. Trouble is neither player we have for that can last 90 minutes. But there is a case for Stewart and Larin in the same team when another team parks the bus.

Our lack of intensity when they were so passive was disappointing. 

Edited 21 minutes ago by coalman

[Oh no Mick Mills]

5 minutes ago, coalman said:

When teams sit back like that we need the option of playing two up top. Azaz isn't going to find the magic through ball but we can pepper their box with crosses. Trouble is neither player we have for that can last 90 minutes. But there is a case for Stewart and Larin in the same team when another team parks the bus.

Our lack of intensity when they were so passive was disappointing. 

I'd be tempted to take Azaz off when he's having " one of his days" .

Put Edozie on the left and stick Leo behind either Stewart and Larin. 

[Fabrice29]

2 minutes ago, coalman said:

When teams sit back like that we need the option of playing two up top. Azaz isn't going to find the magic through ball but we can pepper their box with crosses. Trouble is neither player we have for that can last 90 minutes. But there is a case for Stewart and Larin in the same team when another team parks the bus.

I disagree with this a bit. I think by going 2 up top you are playing to their strengths, they wanted a physical game and to defend the box. The trick in these games is to come up with variation and for your midfielders to be a threat. I thought we lacked that, and do lack that generally tbh. Scienza was defended nicely by Ramsey and not many of our midfielders are a threat in the box. The one time a midfielder got close to the target man Matsuki slipped. 

[madge]

What we needed in the last 20 mins was Larin and Stewart together.. but don’t think we’ll ever see that happen.. but we still would Fanny around and not put crosses in the box.