Danny Ings

[Saint_clark]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

Whilst I tend to agree, the worry would be that a grumpy/disenchanted player ("wah, wah, they wouldn't let me go") would go off the boil in their final season. I guess the counter-argument there though is that he would be shooting himself in the foot if he took his foot off the pedal and made himself less attractive to the big teams in the process. 

Exactly. Ings would then be 30 years old, have a bad injury record and just come off the back of a sub par season. Tottenham and Arsenal, if they're in the market for strikers, will have already signed someone and he'll instead be looking at signing for the likes of West Ham, Leeds or Newcastle, at which point he may as well just stay with us anyway.

[Chez]

3 hours ago, Turkish said:

All of them were very good players, and agree losing a top keeper or striker would have more impact than a left back but to claim Ings is a level above them both is ridiculous. 

Where do people put James Beattie into the mix for our best strikers? You look at his record and his best season in terms of goals is better than Ings was, he was also better for a longer period and integral to how we played at the time. I though he was a cock but you cant argue that he was a good striker for us.

when Beattie was flying he possibly offered more than Ings, with his height and strength, although Ings has better touch and ability on the ball. 

Beattie is a good case history though as his form fell off a cliff once he decided he wanted a move and then subsequently got one. Imagine if we had offered him the equivalent of £150k a week and got the return Everton did for it? Perhaps now is the time to sell, although I am not sure how much we'd get for him this summer. Should we expect Ings to continue to score hatfuls of goals or are we seeing a best and end up paying for a lot less then that over the next four years. Tricky. I guess our record contract shows we expect him to continue to be great...

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

The club needs to get tough with Ings IMO: "Danny, if you don't sign up pronto, mush, we're removing your personalised brick from the wall..."

[MarkSFC]

I wonder whether Ralph isnt actually too bothered either way. He has a history of building teams of young players and perhaps he has highlighted one or two younger players, probably 23-25, (theres been a few names bandied around on here) that he fancies more for the next 2-3 years. 

 

[Chez]

44 minutes ago, Chickendippers said:

The only truly world class player that was playing at that level when we sold him and then continued to play at that level was VVD and possibly Toby (Premier League if only to keep it to colour TV ). I'd put Theo, Shearer, Bridge and even Shaw ahead of Bale (good though he was for us at the time) as top prospects capable of kicking on at the time we sold them. Beattie was superb for us for a couple of seasons but I think he had already peaked when we sold him, so I would put him in the Lambert category when he left. Mane was good for a few games but I don't think anyone here thought he was a world beater (other than Koeman to be fair - especially after Sheff Utd away).

I think Ings is in the very very good category right now and would make most of the big 6 better (except perhaps Liverpool and Spurs). We are lucky to have him and his agent knows it.

You are right about world class, by which I mean would get into a world's best team. VVD and Toby.

Bridge wasn't a prospect though, that could kick on. He was the finished article. Shaw the same. Already among the best in his position in the league. He (Shaw) hasn't got back to that level since. I don't think he ever will. Both were tremendous players.

I think your assessment of Mane is disingenuous. The Sheff United game was December 2014 and he didn't join Liverpool until 2016. In between those dates he blossomed into one of the most dangerous attacking players in the league, enabling us to demand a huge £34m fee for him. Many felt this was not nearly enough. He has continued to shine, but now at CL level. To say no one here felt he was a world beater is bolloxs. He also was already the finished article.

I agree, Ings is very good. He's at the Beattie level, when he was scoring goals for fun.

[Totton Saint]

Watch this space but be careful what you wish for

[Lighthouse]

33 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Erm almost everyone on here said Liverpool got a bargain when they signed Mane for £30million. First season he was inconsistent for us but after that he was one of the top attackers in the league.

Only Glasgow claimed it was £30m. The fee widely reported in the press was around £34m with a few more in add ons (which have almost certainly been triggered) in the £36-38m category. That was a fair enough price, in the £50-60m bracket in today's money, for a player who had yet to consistently prove himself.

[Totton Saint]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

You are right about world class, by which I mean would get into a world's best team. VVD and Toby.

Bridge wasn't a prospect though, that could kick on. He was the finished article. Shaw the same. Already among the best in his position in the league. He (Shaw) hasn't got back to that level since. I don't think he ever will. Both were tremendous players.

I think your assessment of Mane is disingenuous. The Sheff United game was December 2014 and he didn't join Liverpool until 2016. In between those dates he blossomed into one of the most dangerous attacking players in the league, enabling us to demand a huge £34m fee for him. Many felt this was not nearly enough. He has continued to shine, but now at CL level. To say no one here felt he was a world beater is bolloxs. He also was already the finished article.

I agree, Ings is very good. He's at the Beattie level, when he was scoring goals for fun.

What level was he at playing for the club we bought Mane from

[Chez]

 

1 minute ago, Totton Saint said:

What level was he at playing for the club we bought Mane from

no idea. I didn't have a clue who he was before we signed him other than what I read at the time of the transfer. Must have been playing bloody well as we invested a sizeable amount on him. 

[Chickendippers]

Quote

I think your assessment of Mane is disingenuous.

Fair enough. I don't think Liverpool knew what they had bought at the time. He was definitely not the finished article when he left us especially in terms of consistency but we can all agree that when he was 'on it' he was phenomenal.

[Saint Garrett]

11 minutes ago, Totton Saint said:

Watch this space but be careful what you wish for

What does this mean? 

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

My instinct when this debate started was that I look at Ings now as someone broadly in the same bracket as Beattie.

Ings position in the world is also similar - pretty fringe with England with no real chance of being a core international player. A decent, consistent goal scorer.

I'm a bit bewildered by one of our resident "experts" making out Ings is some world-beating megastar on a very short list of great players. 

Nah. We've had plenty come and go. Ings is great, has made a big contribution but then so have others.

He's the hairy Andy Johnson.

[saintwbu]

56 minutes ago, Chez said:

I was thinking the same. £20m is far too low. At this very minute would we accept £20m for him? I think no, and thus a £20m clause could create a possibility of a bid today that we could not turn down. Come the end of the season, would we accept a £20m (again assuming no contract has been signed) or risk an unhappy player that leaves for free 12 months later. Not sure, but at least its in our own destiny. As you say, may as well remove the contract offer - all it does is give him big money security and prevent him going for £0 in 18 months. Tricky though. As a company, allowing a valuable asset to depreciate to £0 would be bad business.

I don’t see the £0 outcome being possible really, I think it’s more we’ll take the best offer in the summer. If we’re lucky it’ll be more than £20mil. If we sign a £20mil release clause then obviously it won’t be more. So best position for us I think is no deal, he goes in the summer to the highest bidder.

However I hadn’t thought of the implications of signing a deal with a release clause during January, albeit I know these things can have time restrictions, maybe we may agree once this window has closed, who knows.

[saintwbu]

23 minutes ago, Chez said:

You are right about world class, by which I mean would get into a world's best team. VVD and Toby.

Bridge wasn't a prospect though, that could kick on. He was the finished article. Shaw the same. Already among the best in his position in the league. He (Shaw) hasn't got back to that level since. I don't think he ever will. Both were tremendous players.

I think your assessment of Mane is disingenuous. The Sheff United game was December 2014 and he didn't join Liverpool until 2016. In between those dates he blossomed into one of the most dangerous attacking players in the league, enabling us to demand a huge £34m fee for him. Many felt this was not nearly enough. He has continued to shine, but now at CL level. To say no one here felt he was a world beater is bolloxs. He also was already the finished article.

I agree, Ings is very good. He's at the Beattie level, when he was scoring goals for fun.

I agree on Mane, he was world class here too. I don’t think we as a fan base are the greatest admirers or enigmatic attackers but he was absolutely top drawer and we are lucky to have seen him play for us. VVD, Toby, Mane all suddenly became world class within weeks of joining their new clubs, funny how that works isn’t it.

[Turkish]

58 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Erm almost everyone on here said Liverpool got a bargain when they signed Mane for £30million. First season he was inconsistent for us but after that he was one of the top attackers in the league.

That's the problem, you're using here as your yardstick. The fee was actually more like £34m, at the time it was a good fee, it was one of the biggest transfers of the summer. The follow one or two season prices exploded with players no where near Manes level going for the sort of money he did, whilst he was playing really well in a good Liverpool team so then everyone decided Les had f*cked up again, which wasn't true. I maintain and always have that the price we got for Mane was fair and good at the time we sold him 

[Lighthouse]

7 minutes ago, saintwbu said:

I agree on Mane, he was world class here too. I don’t think we as a fan base are the greatest admirers or enigmatic attackers but he was absolutely top drawer and we are lucky to have seen him play for us. VVD, Toby, Mane all suddenly became world class within weeks of joining their new clubs, funny how that works isn’t it.

No they didn’t. The first two were widely regarded as amongst the best, if not the best, in the league during their time at Saints. Mané was world class for about his last ten games here, which in itself isn’t world class as you’ve got to consistently show yourself in that bracket to be considered one of the greats.

 

[Saint Keef]

Let's assume he goes for £20m. Who could we buy for £20m? If I recall we only paid about £18m for that prolific striker Carrillo..............oh, hang on a minute.

[saintwbu]

Just now, Lighthouse said:

No they didn’t. The first two were widely regarded as amongst the best, if not the best, in the league during their time at Saints. Mané was world class for about his last ten games here, which in itself isn’t world class as you’ve got to consistently show yourself in that bracket to be considered one of the greats.

 

Not by anyone outside of here they weren’t. VVD was the best CB in the world when he was playing for Saints, yet his fee was deemed too expensive and he was overpriced by most of the media and pundits’ standard. Anyone who’d watched him properly could tell you he was going to transform that team, but most people don’t watch us outside MOTD. Mane was way better than just those last 10 games, I said to my brother that Mane would be on the Ballon D’or list one day when he was still with us, so not sure where you were prior to those last 10 games!

[Donatello]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

Brilliant point. Ings agent team are expecting us to accept the same or less 🤦‍♂️ 

We'd honestly be better keeping him and letting him go for nothing, his goals for another season would be worth the loss (top half rather than bottom half, would we make most of it up in prize money anyway?) And it gives us another seasons worth of revenue/deadweight players off the wage bill to try and replace him properly rather than spending a paltry amount on a subpar replacement and struggling because of it.

With the reported sell-on fee, it'd definitely be less (assuming the £20m is the release clause price, and not the discrepancy between the two sides prices)

[Totton Saint]

This must contract issue be so unsettling for the rest of the squad. I would say more but I am slow at typing. 

[Tom]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

You are right about world class, by which I mean would get into a world's best team. VVD and Toby.

Bridge wasn't a prospect though, that could kick on. He was the finished article. Shaw the same. Already among the best in his position in the league. He (Shaw) hasn't got back to that level since. I don't think he ever will. Both were tremendous players.

I think your assessment of Mane is disingenuous. The Sheff United game was December 2014 and he didn't join Liverpool until 2016. In between those dates he blossomed into one of the most dangerous attacking players in the league, enabling us to demand a huge £34m fee for him. Many felt this was not nearly enough. He has continued to shine, but now at CL level. To say no one here felt he was a world beater is bolloxs. He also was already the finished article.

I agree, Ings is very good. He's at the Beattie level, when he was scoring goals for fun.

Not correct. Redknapp was told he had to sell either Beattie or Niemi and he chose to sell Beattie. Beattie never wanted to leave at that time.

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, Totton Saint said:

Watch this space but be careful what you wish for

To lose a stone or two? I can't see a downside, oh cryptic one...

[Scully]

Don't leave Danny! Our best player by some way when fit and would be a massive loss to the club. 

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

Latest from Ralph:
 

“I can only say that we want him to stay and we show that we want him to be here, and he shows signals that he wants to be with us.

“I think that is clear. We show him what we don’t want, and for us it is important to show that we don’t want to sell him, we want to keep him for as long as possible.

“He knows that his quality now, we helped him to be that strong. It is a win-win situation if we can find the solution. He likes playing with this team and the atmosphere is fantastic.”

[Scully]

Keeping him would be better than a new signing on the caveat he doesn't get one of his infamous injuries!

[Turkish]

39 minutes ago, Scully said:

Don't leave Danny! Our best player by some way when fit and would be a massive loss to the club. 

Get a grip, FFS. Players leave. 

[trousers]

2 hours ago, Totton Saint said:

Watch this space but be careful what you wish for

Can't work out if its Dusty Bin or the Mini Metro

[CB Fry]

2 hours ago, Totton Saint said:

Watch this space but be careful what you wish for

Ings has signed the contract but he's done his ACL picking up the Montblanc ballpoint and out until April '22.

[the saint in winchester]

I start with the view that if Ings was fully committed to staying with us long term, he wouldn't be interested in a release clause. It suggests he has one eye on the exit door already. I guess that's the modern player. "I want salary rises and contract extensions, but not to be tied down and held to the length of the contract."  That's player power these days. 

[Jeremy Corbyn]

43 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Get a grip, FFS. Players leave. 

Nonsense.  Players warming up in "Danny Please Stay" t-shirts on Saturday hopefully.

[Lighthouse]

2 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

Nonsense.  Players warming up in "Danny Please Stay" t-shirts on Saturday hopefully.

We should get the squad together in a studio and record a cover of Shakespeare’s Sister.

[Dusic]

Will be interesting to see when the usual SWF player opinion shift will begin.

The one where, like with Hojberg, he goes from being good to woeful once it becomes clear he will be leaving. Won't play at the team he joins, not a top 6 player etc. Not as good as N'Lundulu. Adams makes him look good. He was only good because of Ralph and Aleks Gross etc etc.

I reckon April this year.

 

 

Edited 21 January, 2021 by Dusic

[trousers]

27 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

We should get the squad together in a studio and record a cover of Shakespeare’s Sister.

This one?

 

[DJ_TOAST]

49 minutes ago, the saint in winchester said:

I start with the view that if Ings was fully committed to staying with us long term, he wouldn't be interested in a release clause. It suggests he has one eye on the exit door already. I guess that's the modern player. "I want salary rises and contract extensions, but not to be tied down and held to the length of the contract."  That's player power these days. 

Quite sickening really isn't it. 

[Turkish]

49 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

We should get the squad together in a studio and record a cover of Shakespeare’s Sister.

I won’t be satisfied until Ings comes onto the pitch grabs the Mike of the stadium announcer and scream “I’m not leaving” Jordan Belfort style

 

[itchen]

I don't want him to leave and the team will be poorer without him. It also seems a little ungrateful to the club who took him on when he couldn't get a game at Liverpool and which developed him further into the player he is now. But that's football. Players come, players go. If he thinks he'll get more money or win some trophies elsewhere then loyalty and gratitude take second and third place.

I'll be disappointed but I won't lose any sleep over it.  The club have offered what they think is in the best interest of the club, striking a balance between giving him the best deal they can afford and acting for the long-term future of the club.  I'm confident we'll find another player either from within our own ranks or by a shrewd transfer.  Ings is good but not irreplaceable.  Many here said we shouldn't have had a commitment to buy him when we took him on loan.  Ralph knew better then and I'm sure he has a plan for what to do post Ings if Danny decides to quit.

In the end, it's up to the player. 

 

[saintwbu]

1 hour ago, the saint in winchester said:

I start with the view that if Ings was fully committed to staying with us long term, he wouldn't be interested in a release clause. It suggests he has one eye on the exit door already. I guess that's the modern player. "I want salary rises and contract extensions, but not to be tied down and held to the length of the contract."  That's player power these days. 

Hojbjerg was shit for probably three quarters of the time he played for us, there was no revisionism there at all, just look at the difference that transfer has done for our team. Ings has been good, most will struggle to dismiss that wherever he goes.

[verlaine1979]

8 minutes ago, saintwbu said:

Hojbjerg was shit for probably three quarters of the time he played for us, there was no revisionism there at all, just look at the difference that transfer has done for our team. Ings has been good, most will struggle to dismiss that wherever he goes.

We're definitely a better passing side with Hoj gone.

[fanimal]

He will be worth 3-4 places in the League for us so reward him for that as an incentive no harm in paying him a % of the place money 

[Matthew Le God]

1 minute ago, fanimal said:

He will be worth 3-4 places in the League for us so reward him for that as an incentive no harm in paying him a % of the place money 

You assume money is the issue and not playing at a higher level - which would bring in even more money for him.

[saintwbu]

20 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

We're definitely a better passing side with Hoj gone.

Unquestionably - and he’s doing a good job for Tottenham, which is great, but it’s completely different to the job he was trying to do here, and asking a lot less of him. At no point since he dropped out the team have I ever thought ‘we could’ve really done with Hojbjerg in this game’ and i’d be baffled if anybody out there had done.

[Big M]

Sadly this is Saints business model, I'm assuming our owner will be happy to sell to make as much money as possible, covid makes no difference I'm afraid all the time we have the ownership we do, I just hope we don't do what we usually do and end up with a poor poor relegation battling team. 

[Saint Billy]

9 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

You assume money is the issue and not playing at a higher level - which would bring in even more money for him.

I can’t  believe wanting Champions League football is the sole reason seeing that he came to us from a club that offered that.

More likely that his stock has risen again after having a good and mainly injury free season and can now look to boost his salary up once again.

[Dark Munster]

3 hours ago, Tom said:

Not correct. Redknapp was told he had to sell either Beattie or Niemi and he chose to sell Beattie. Beattie never wanted to leave at that time.

Really? That's the first I heard about that. If true, the ruddy-cheeked bastard is a bigger idiot than I thought. Talk about being penny wise, pound foolish.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

When did we first hear about this release clause? I'm guessing that around the time Ings got injured against Villa, this prompted him and probably more importantly his agent, to have a bit of a re-think about his future plans. I may be way off, but I can see a situation where by Ings and his team have sat down and come to the conclusion that the injury he suffered has spooked them, and that by asking for such a low release clause, if he continues to bang in the goals and stays injury free, the clutch of clubs lining up with 20m will be far more than if it was 40m. The flip side is of course he his form goes off a cliff or he suffers another long term injury, he has the contract he signed with us a pretty decent security

[Turkish]

24 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

Really? That's the first I heard about that. If true, the ruddy-cheeked bastard is a bigger idiot than I thought. Talk about being penny wise, pound foolish.

It’s true. I had a lot of contacts in the club at the time. To be fair Beattie hadn’t had a particularly good season but his stock was still high and we could get good money for him at the time. Plus we had Crouch and Phillips plus Camara came in on loan so the idea was to sell him and let Redknapp rebuild. We missed out on quite a few players though, think Dawson and Reid from Forest were the main ones who would have made a big difference, they both ended up at Spurs. So we were left with Crap like Davenport and Bernard. 

[Medrurkin]

5 hours ago, Ivan Katalinic's 'tache said:

The club needs to get tough with Ings IMO: "Danny, if you don't sign up pronto, mush, we're removing your personalised brick from the wall..."

All in all, he's just another brick in the wall.

[captainchris]

1 hour ago, Big M said:

Sadly this is Saints business model, I'm assuming our owner will be happy to sell to make as much money as possible, covid makes no difference I'm afraid all the time we have the ownership we do, I just hope we don't do what we usually do and end up with a poor poor relegation battling team. 

You can’t relate this to the owner. It’s not Saints that want to sell after all.

Much as Ings is a good player for us, he now wants to have his cake and eat it. Ings is instigating a way out so it’s best to sell now as he will not have the same commitment and will sour the rest of the fruit bowl. Sorry to say but he should be sold to the highest bidder in my view unless he withdraws his thinly veiled transfer request called a ‘release clause’

[Saint Pete]

6 hours ago, trousers said:

Whilst I tend to agree, the worry would be that a grumpy/disenchanted player ("wah, wah, they wouldn't let me go") would go off the boil in their final season. I guess the counter-argument there though is that he would be shooting himself in the foot if he took his foot off the pedal and made himself less attractive to the big teams in the process. 

Yes, at his stage of career, doing a Van Dijk and having a sulk for 6 months or a season is not really an option if he wants a move to a top 4 team. And I honestly don't think he's the type either. He may kick up a bit in the summer if he knows a big team is interested but if made to stay he would knuckle down in my opinion because it's in his interest to do so.

So if it's true his agent is asking for a release clause as low as £20m there is absolutely no reason for us to agree to that, definitely better to hold the line until the summer and see how much is offered for him. If the offer's big enough for a champs league quality striker he goes, if not he stays for the final year or signs the deal we are offering.

 

[HarvSFC]

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/soccertalents/beraterfirma/berater/3381

Would appear that he's the only one who would get this agency any decent money.