Forster or McCarthy?

[Teddeer]

On 02/03/2021 at 08:57, Sarnia Cherie said:

McCarthy, no question.

Forster, no question.

[Teddeer]

35 minutes ago, stevy777_x said:

How many shots has Forster faced in those 6 games? 

People are overlooking the fact that Fraser is far more vocal than McCarthy and defenders like that as it is a big help to them in letting them know where danger is lurking. It is part of why he is reducing the number of shots against us.

[Red]

Just now, Teddeer said:

People are overlooking the fact that Fraser is far more vocal than McCarthy and defenders like that as it is a big help to them in letting them know where danger is lurking. It is part of why he is reducing the number of shots against us.

Also don't care if it's luck - I would rather have a lucky keeper than an unlucky one (not that I think it's luck). If nothing else dropping Mac for a few games will make him try harder to get back rather than think he's first choice regardless of how he performs. Don't see a down side here really

[stevy777_x]

5 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

People are overlooking the fact that Fraser is far more vocal than McCarthy and defenders like that as it is a big help to them in letting them know where danger is lurking. It is part of why he is reducing the number of shots against us.

Lol, so if you shout you reduce the amount of shots against you?

🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

[Toadhall Saint]

3 minutes ago, stevy777_x said:

Lol, so if you shout you reduce the amount of shots against you?

🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

That’s about it. 

[Matthew Le God]

49 minutes ago, stevy777_x said:

How many shots has Forster faced in those 6 games? 

Organising defenders, coming off you line when needed, passing well, taking crosses etc all reduces the amount of shots you need to save because it reduces the attacking threat from the opponent and stifles it before a shooting chance is created.

Edited 6 March, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[Teddeer]

9 minutes ago, stevy777_x said:

Lol, so if you shout you reduce the amount of shots against you?

🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

That's not what I said.

[St.Jeweller]

1 hour ago, stevy777_x said:

How many shots has Forster faced in those 6 games? 

Man City next

Should have a few shots to save then.

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, stevy777_x said:

How many shots has Forster faced in those 6 games? 

54 shots on goal, 8 on target in those 6 games. Doesn't take into account any shots after the whistle has gone like the excellent save he made today, or the times he slides in quicker than McCarthy does to smother the ball before the shot is taken, or the times he's claimed the ball in the air to stop it reaching someone. 

Also it isn't a coincidence, as others have pointed out, that in the 6 games he's played we've only faced 8 shots on target, in only 2 games have we faced more than 1.  This was a common theme last time he was in goal for us with Aldeweireld and Lovren in front of him,it's clearly something he does in organising the defense and it works so let's not belittle it. 

 

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Well done to Lurch for only letting one in against Everton and keeping a clean sheet  against the mighty Sheffield Utd. Shame he didn’t match McCarthy’s record in the corresponding fixtures as we’d have an extra point, but fair play.
 

Let’s see how he gets on the rest of the season before thinking we’ve found the new Lev Yashin. 

 

 

[JRM]

Forster has earnt a chance to have a run in the side, fair play to him, good to see him back. 

[The Cat]

He's done alright without being tested too much. He's given Ralph no reason to drop him so should carry on between the sticks for now. 

[egg]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

54 shots on goal, 8 on target in those 6 games. Doesn't take into account any shots after the whistle has gone like the excellent save he made today, or the times he slides in quicker than McCarthy does to smother the ball before the shot is taken, or the times he's claimed the ball in the air to stop it reaching someone. 

Also it isn't a coincidence, as others have pointed out, that in the 6 games he's played we've only faced 8 shots on target, in only 2 games have we faced more than 1.  This was a common theme last time he was in goal for us with Aldeweireld and Lovren in front of him,it's clearly something he does in organising the defense and it works so let's not belittle it. 

 

 

Absolutely this. He's a half decent shot stopper, but our defence looks more assured with him there. He's looked confident, and that gives confidence.

However we cut it, he can only do what's asked of him, and he's done that well. 

Keep him in the team. 

[Noodles34]

I’m not his biggest fan at all, in fact, I think he’s fucking useless. 
But he’s in now and we can’t be pissing about, so just keep him there until he reverts back to type. 
so, is McCarthy going in goal for the cup game? 

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, Noodles34 said:

I’m not his biggest fan at all, in fact, I think he’s fucking useless. 
But he’s in now and we can’t be pissing about, so just keep him there until he reverts back to type. 
so, is McCarthy going in goal for the cup game? 

I hope not, we should be putting our strongest team out in the cup games to the point of resting players in league games around it.

[Dark Munster]

29 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

I hope not, we should be putting our strongest team out in the cup games to the point of resting players in league games around it.

Absolutely! Plus FF is a much better penalty saver, which could come in handy in our march to Wembley.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

5 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Also it isn't a coincidence, as others have pointed out, that in the 6 games he's played we've only faced 8 shots on target, in only 2 games have we faced more than 1.  This was a common theme last time he was in goal for us with Aldeweireld and Lovren in front of him,it's clearly something he does in organising the defense and it works so let's not belittle it.

Indeed, he came back into the team after 10 months out and we suddenly kept 6 clean sheets in a row. People said it was luck then as well.

https://www.southamptonfc.com/news/2016-02-28/forster-sets-new-southampton-record

The problems came later when he lost his confidence

[austsaint]

On 02/03/2021 at 19:46, OldNick said:

I was against Macca being dropped but Forster was a different keeper to when he last played for us. He commanded his area taking crosses.

He did nothing for him to lose his place IMO

Same here.    I still think McCarthy's a better keeper; and I still think both of them need replacing - someone like Ramsdale perhaps.  Just the same, Forster does look rejuvenated and has earned the shirt for the time being.   As Bankok Saint hinted at though.....let's not extend his contract again!

[Wade Garrett]

12 hours ago, stevy777_x said:

Lol, so if you shout you reduce the amount of shots against you?

🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

Shows how much you know about the game.

[Matthew Le God]

8 hours ago, austsaint said:

 I still think both of them need replacing - someone like Ramsdale perhaps. 

He is not in any way an improvement on what we already have. I'd put him behind both of them in a pecking order.

[Rivers]

Loving seeing Fraser rushing twenty yards outside his box, sweeper-keeper style, on a number of occasions.

So much better with the ball at his feet. Even say he was looking quite tidy and confident at times.

Often looking for a chance to start a quick counter with a well spotted throwing opportunity.

Clearly been working hard at his game, and all credit to him for it. Much improved, and deserves to keep his place for now.

 

 

[woodsaint1]

Forster has yet to concede 9 in a game. Until that happens hes number one. McCarthy will be back for the Brighton game then 😀

[st alex]

2 hours ago, woodsaint1 said:

Forster has yet to concede 9 in a game. Until that happens hes number one. McCarthy will be back for the Brighton game then 😀

By that logic Lewis hasn't conceded any yet for the first team so he should be number one.

Generally I prefer Mccarthy to Forster. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. If Forster's worked on his and has improved since his last stint as our number one then great. Personally I tend to feel nervous when he has the ball at his feet, and think he's had the effect of making the team and the crowd nervous previously. 

Difficult to compare them based on this season's performances so far as other's have tried to point out Forster can only beat what's in front of him which so far has been Freefalling Liverpool, Shrewsbury, Arsenal Reserves, Wolves Reserves, Everton, and Sheffield Utd. So it's not really a like for like comparison, but it'll be interesting to see how he gets on over the next few games, and how Saints do. 

I would also argue that there is a difference between Saints doing well with him in goal, and him doing well in goal (putting in good personal performances). Valery and L'Nudulu also started for us against Liverpool but there's no campaign for them to play regularly as the key to our success. 

[steve green]

4 hours ago, Rivers said:

Loving seeing Fraser rushing twenty yards outside his box, sweeper-keeper style, on a number of occasions.

So much better with the ball at his feet. Even say he was looking quite tidy and confident at times.

Often looking for a chance to start a quick counter with a well spotted throwing opportunity.

Clearly been working hard at his game, and all credit to him for it. Much improved, and deserves to keep his place for now.

 

 

I agree, but also like woodsaint1 he always makes me nervous.

I think he's benefited from no crowds as you could hear the anxiety from supporters, which made him more anxious.

We should remember not to over react when one of his sweeper type runs ends in disaster, it does even for the best occasionally.

 

 

[StrangelyBrown]

I don't know what happened to McCarthy post covid but he seems to have stopped saving the ball which was the big reason I used to prefer him to Forster. 

Forster organising the defence makes a big difference IMO. Also having someone who can play a good long ball straight up to the forwards makes a heck of a difference in contrast to the relentless dithering slow build up from the back that has characterised McCarthy in 2021.

I'd rather have a better keeper than either of them, but right now Forster deserves his place.

[austsaint]

10 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

He is not in any way an improvement on what we already have. I'd put him behind both of them in a pecking order.

You might - but judged on what I've seen, and considering Ramsdale's age and development - not to mention Saints budget - I'd say he's a perfect candidate for goalkeeping succession, especially if Gunn's career continues to stagnate.     I'll trust my eyes on that one.

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, austsaint said:

You might - but judged on what I've seen, and considering Ramsdale's age and development - not to mention Saints budget - I'd say he's a perfect candidate for goalkeeping succession, especially if Gunn's career continues to stagnate.     I'll trust my eyes on that one.

He'd likely cost more than we've ever spent on a goalkeeper.

He cost Sheff U £20m, and signed a 4 year deal. He isn't leaving for much less than that tbh. He's out of our budget for a start and isn't a position we need to be spending any serious money on.

[austsaint]

6 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

He'd likely cost more than we've ever spent on a goalkeeper.

He cost Sheff U £20m, and signed a 4 year deal. He isn't leaving for much less than that tbh. He's out of our budget for a start and isn't a position we need to be spending any serious money on.

Fair enough, I didn't realise he was valued so highly.    I was partly responding to MLG's belief that Forster and McCarthy are better keepers - on what I've seen of Ramsdale, they aren't.

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, austsaint said:

Fair enough, I didn't realise he was valued so highly.    I was partly responding to MLG's belief that Forster and McCarthy are better keepers - on what I've seen of Ramsdale, they aren't.

They're all pretty average to be fair. I'd say GK is a position it would be 'nice to change up', but i think we've got bigger priorities, that's all.

[Noodles34]

How is AG doing at Stoke.

Think he got the rough end of the stick with the Leicester buggering. 
 

He is young and clearly showed potential to City and then us. Maybe we have the long term replacement with us already? 
 

Just find it hard to believe that he is not going to be better than what we have now. 

[rooney]

Forster has earned his stripes for now.

[Matthew Le God]

19 hours ago, austsaint said:

You might - but judged on what I've seen, and considering Ramsdale's age and development - not to mention Saints budget - I'd say he's a perfect candidate for goalkeeping succession, especially if Gunn's career continues to stagnate.     I'll trust my eyes on that one.

Ramsdale cost Sheffield United £18.5m on a contract until 2024. I doubt they'll be looking to sell him at a loss. They might as well keep him for at least 1 year to see if they can get promoted again.

Edited 8 March, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[OldNick]

Ramsdale is also error strewn and deffo not for us IMO.

[Harry_SFC]

McCarthy's confidence has well and truly gone. Forster now clear No. 1 in my opinion. 

[S-Clarke]

To be absolutely honest I'd ditch 1 in the summer and buy a brand new number 1. Both of these guys aren't suited to the high line/sweeper keeper/ball playing GK we need. It's suicidal to keep playing this way with either of them.

[Nordic Saint]

 

Forster has let in 1 goal in his last 6 games

McCarthy has let in 23 goals in his last 6 games

 

[davefizzy14]

Fraser is clearly our number one

[Baird of the land]

43 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

To be absolutely honest I'd ditch 1 in the summer and buy a brand new number 1. Both of these guys aren't suited to the high line/sweeper keeper/ball playing GK we need. It's suicidal to keep playing this way with either of them.

I think it would be crazy to spend our limited transfer funds on a keeper, when we've 3 senior keepers we're unlikely to be able to shift for any money.

[S-Clarke]

4 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

I think it would be crazy to spend our limited transfer funds on a keeper, when we've 3 senior keepers we're unlikely to be able to shift for any money.

I don't disagree and that's why I still class GK as a 'nice to change' position rather than a priority.

But this is what I mean with having flexibility in order to evolve the squad. We're so hamstrung that we have to ignore the other glaring holes which aren't as glaring as other areas. £10m on two keepers, one out on loan and one not truly established here anymore. You'd have hoped one of those would have been our first choice for years, but another club fail in the recruitment department.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

For the money spent on Gunn at the time, we certainly could have dome a lot better if we did our homework better.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

10 hours ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

For the money spent on Gunn at the time, we certainly could have dome a lot better if we did our homework better.

Was he not good enough or just shattered by the 9-0?

[Dusic]

14 hours ago, Nordic Saint said:

 

Forster has let in 1 goal in his last 6 games

McCarthy has let in 23 goals in his last 6 games

 

Forster has done ok, but I still feel like he hasn't been hugely tested in those games.

Not a slight on him, but I was hoping he played yesterday to give him a more thorough test.

[Convict Colony]

Did ralph address switching this in the city post game ?  presume he thought Macca better with the ball at his feet - which he quickly disapproved if that was the case.

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

Did ralph address switching this in the city post game ?  presume he thought Macca better with the ball at his feet - which he quickly disapproved if that was the case.

Fucking hell. Deciding who is better with the ball at his feet between those two, is like deciding who is funnier out of Dawn French & Miranda Hart. 

[stevy777_x]

3 hours ago, Dusic said:

Forster has done ok, but I still feel like he hasn't been hugely tested in those games.

Not a slight on him, but I was hoping he played yesterday to give him a more thorough test.

Apparently he hasn’t been tested because he is more vocal than McCarthy, commands his defenders better —> the defenders have more confidence in him and did has cut down the number of shots he has faced.

🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

[Wade Garrett]

6 minutes ago, stevy777_x said:

Apparently he hasn’t been tested because he is more vocal than McCarthy, commands his defenders better —> the defenders have more confidence in him and did has cut down the number of shots he has faced.

🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

Again, you’re showing your total lack of knowledge.

If the keeper spots someone unmarked and tells his defender, said defender can then mark the player.  Makes a shot on goal less likely.  Or if a keeper calls early for the ball in a tight situation the defender has no doubt what to do.

I’m actually embarrassed for you that it needs explaining.

Is your only experience of football on the PlayStation?

Edited 11 March, 2021 by Wade Garrett

[Teddeer]

27 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Again, you’re showing your total lack of knowledge.

If the keeper spots someone unmarked and tells his defender, said defender can then mark the player.  Makes a shot on goal less likely.  Or if a keeper calls early for the ball in a tight situation the defender has no doubt what to do.

I’m actually embarrassed for you that it needs explaining.

Is your only experience of football on the PlayStation?

Glad someone said it.

[Teddeer]

A good example of McCarthy's lack of communication was when Salisu got caught dawdling on the ball facing his own goal in the second half, Fernandinho robbed him and City should have scored.  Ok, Salisu was to blame but there appeared to be no warning shout from McCarthy unless he is a very good ventriloquist. Big Fraser would have been bellowing at him, 'Man on, get rid!'

Edited 11 March, 2021 by Teddeer

[stevy777_x]

3 hours ago, Teddeer said:

A good example of McCarthy's lack of communication was when Salisu got caught dawdling on the ball facing his own goal in the second half, Fernandinho robbed him and City should have scored.  Ok, Salisu was to blame but there appeared to be no warning shout from McCarthy unless he is a very good ventriloquist. Big Fraser would have been bellowing at him, 'Man on, get rid!'

There ‘appeared’ to be warning no shout is enough here to say you are just assuming that McCarthy doesn’t communicate.

From the games I am looking at I am in no way of determining who communicates better between Forster and McCarthy and you as well. So your or other posters’ assumption that Forster faces less shots on goal because he shouts /commands more his defenders is utter bollox. 

[Teddeer]

1 hour ago, stevy777_x said:

There ‘appeared’ to be warning no shout is enough here to say you are just assuming that McCarthy doesn’t communicate.

From the games I am looking at I am in no way of determining who communicates better between Forster and McCarthy and you as well. So your or other posters’ assumption that Forster faces less shots on goal because he shouts /commands more his defenders is utter bollox. 

Well I watched it on the highlights video and couldn't see McCarthy's mouth move so either he whispered or, as I said previously, he is a very good ventriloquist. With Forster you can hear him bellowing and certainly see his mouth open. The bottom line is that there needs to be very clear and loud communication between a goalkeeper and his defenders - it is part of the role.