Forster or McCarthy?

[CraigH]

With McCarthy losing form and Forster looking good when he’s played in the cup and against Liverpool, what are the chances that Forster takes the no.1 spot for league games?

 

[notnowcato]

Fraser hasn't really been tested in any of the games so far.  Fraser will play Thursday, could be an interesting topic if he has a standout game, for now it's Macca as #1.

[qwertyell]

McCarthy has conceded 18 of the last 33 shots he's faced. 

Wouldn't be a surprise if the manager took him out of the firing line.

[CraigH]

True, Forster didn’t have many saves to make but what he has to do, he did well. The defence also seemed to be more relaxed playing with Forster behind them. If Forster has a blinder against against Wolves, keeps a clean sheet and makes a few great saves, what would you say his chances of starting in the league are?

Thanks

[CraigH]

1 minute ago, qwertyell said:

McCarthy has conceded 18 of the last 33 shots he's faced. 

Wouldn't be a surprise if the manager took him out of the firing line.

That’s what I was thinking, he seems to have lost confidence and isn’t making the saves he made earlier on in the season.

[Lighthouse]

I’d look to offload both in summer if I’m completely honest, I’ve never thought either were anything special.

[niceandfriendly]

Has to be Forster. You have to earn your place in the team. McCarthy hasn't done so in the games he's played recently and Fraser has. No brainer.

[Whitey Grandad]

I prefer Forster. McCarthy makes too many blunders. 

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, qwertyell said:

McCarthy has conceded 18 of the last 33 shots he's faced. 

Wouldn't be a surprise if the manager took him out of the firing line.

Forgive me for not wanting to revisit the Manchester 9 but I can't recall any that he should have saved.  

[JRM]

52 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I’d look to offload both in summer if I’m completely honest, I’ve never thought either were anything special.

Got to disagree with that, we have two England International goalkeepers, both of them will have an eye on Euro 2020 (21) and World Cup 2022. 

Wise words from Mr Reed for you to consider. 

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/mccarthy-challenge-forster-southampton

[Avenue_Saint]

Time to give big Fraser a run. McCarthy could do with a break I think. Slip in form 

[cloggy saint]

A lot of people with short memories here. Forster was a liability before he was dropped and shipped off to Celtic, crap with his feet and about as mobile as a statue. Macca hasn't done too much wrong this season, even the best screw up from time to time, case in point being Allison against City and I doubt there's any support for him being dropped. Play Forster in the cup and leave McCarthy in the team for the league.

[Lighthouse]

36 minutes ago, JRM said:

Got to disagree with that, we have two England International goalkeepers, both of them will have an eye on Euro 2020 (21) and World Cup 2022. 

Wise words from Mr Reed for you to consider. 

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/mccarthy-challenge-forster-southampton

David Nugent is an England international. McCarthy has one cap, Forster hasn’t been in the squad for about five years now. I don’t care what they’ve got an eye on, both are a noticeable weakness in our team.

[danjosaint]

Get rid of both and get Romero in from utd and the highly rated lad from Accrington Stanley 

Edited 9 February, 2021 by danjosaint

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, cloggy saint said:

A lot of people with short memories here. Forster was a liability before he was dropped and shipped off to Celtic, crap with his feet and about as mobile as a statue. Macca hasn't done too much wrong this season, even the best screw up from time to time, case in point being Allison against City and I doubt there's any support for him being dropped. Play Forster in the cup and leave McCarthy in the team for the league.

Spot on. 
 

McCarthy is average, Forster is pony. 

[LiberalCommunist]

Personally I'd be really happy to see FF challenge AM for the position. If we get a good display on Thursday, then I'd say the big man has earned a crack at number one spot. They are in competition, and Alex needs to know this more than ever. No time for sentiments, people will question the gaffer if we keep conceding and losing, time to be ruthless. 

[ErwinK1961]

59 minutes ago, cloggy saint said:

A lot of people with short memories here. Forster was a liability before he was dropped and shipped off to Celtic, crap with his feet and about as mobile as a statue. Macca hasn't done too much wrong this season, even the best screw up from time to time, case in point being Allison against City and I doubt there's any support for him being dropped. Play Forster in the cup and leave McCarthy in the team for the league.

This is true, but in the (all be it limited) game time Fraser has had back in the team since, he looks to have been working really hard on his weaknesses (coming off his line, distribution etc). McCarthy's distribution/ball at feet has always been iffy, but doesn't seem to get the same stick for it as Fraser did.

Up to Fraser really, if he has a great game on Thursday then I don't see any harm in sticking him in for Prem games - might as well see if he's got anything left to offer.

Ultimately though, I suspect if he does get a run he will revert to type eventually. I agree with Lighthouse, I think both are pretty average and could easily be improved on. 

[Dark Munster]

1 hour ago, cloggy saint said:

A lot of people with short memories here. Forster was a liability before he was dropped and shipped off to Celtic, crap with his feet and about as mobile as a statue. Macca hasn't done too much wrong this season, even the best screw up from time to time, case in point being Allison against City and I doubt there's any support for him being dropped. Play Forster in the cup and leave McCarthy in the team for the league.

Which is more important now, the league or the Cup?

[cloggy saint]

If I had to choose I would say cup but the chances of winning it are very slim.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

For me neither of them inspire much confidence, throw in Gunn and our keeper situation is average to say the least. I'd look to maybe keep McCarthy as back up and bring someone else in. No idea who though. 

[CanadaSaint]

2 hours ago, cloggy saint said:

A lot of people with short memories here. Forster was a liability before he was dropped and shipped off to Celtic, crap with his feet and about as mobile as a statue. Macca hasn't done too much wrong this season, even the best screw up from time to time, case in point being Allison against City and I doubt there's any support for him being dropped. Play Forster in the cup and leave McCarthy in the team for the league.

I'm with you.

McCarthy has made some errors but they are more to do with awareness, and trying to play out from the back when he didn't grow up with that being a key prerequisite for a keeper. His technique is generally quite sound, and he has made a fair number of brilliant reaction saves.

Forster's technique is - and always has been - dreadful. His footwork is diabolical because he spends most of his time on the flats of his feet, drastically limiting his speed and reach, and making him vulnerable to low shots. He is slow off his line and doesn't take advantage of his height when aerial danger threatens.

The only two areas in which I might put Forster ahead of McCarthy are distribution and communication.

[Billy the Kidd]

4 hours ago, CraigH said:

True, Forster didn’t have many saves to make but what he has to do, he did well. The defence also seemed to be more relaxed playing with Forster behind them. If Forster has a blinder against against Wolves, keeps a clean sheet and makes a few great saves, what would you say his chances of starting in the league are?

Thanks

Yeah, you had me til you mentioned the clean sheet part 😉

[Disco Stu]

Ultimately I want a new keeper but I think Mccarthy is the better of the two.

[EBS1980]

1 hour ago, danjosaint said:

Get rid of both and get Romero in from utd and the highly rated lad from Accrington Stanley 

Romero is wasted as 3rd keeper, can’t believe nobody picked him up

[igsey]

Not sure how Forster has suddenly become good again by sitting on the bench all season? He's just not very good, and I am very surprised that the games he has played hasn't seen the opposition just taking pot-shots from distance.

McCarthy's made one notable mistake recently but apart from that against Newcastle, he's not to blame for the leaky defence. KWP's injury, Bertrand's suspension and Jankewitz's enthusiasm are more to blame.

[The Cat]

McCarthy all day. 

CanadaSaint had it spot in his post above. 

[austsaint]

7 hours ago, notnowcato said:

Fraser hasn't really been tested in any of the games so far.  Fraser will play Thursday, could be an interesting topic if he has a standout game, for now it's Macca as #1.

Incredible how little Forster has been asked to do in those three recent games.   While McCarthy has made a few errors of late, he's still an acre in front of FF in my book.

[LiberalCommunist]

We just desperately need competition for places. If FF can make Alex up his game then mission accomplished. I see no benefit in writing off FF and have him sitting it out on a massive deal with no chance of even enticing suiters. Giving him the chance right now, makes perfect sense. I hope he does well. 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, igsey said:

Not sure how Forster has suddenly become good again by sitting on the bench all season? He's just not very good, and I am very surprised that the games he has played hasn't seen the opposition just taking pot-shots from distance.

McCarthy's made one notable mistake recently but apart from that against Newcastle, he's not to blame for the leaky defence. KWP's injury, Bertrand's suspension and Jankewitz's enthusiasm are more to blame.

Just the one?

[Kenilworthy]

For a long time McCarthy over Forster was an easy decision for me. Now it is far from certain. At least with Forster the nonsense of playing out from the back doesn't happen because our defenders know they can't do that with him. They can't do it with McCarthy either, but think they can.

[egg]

McCarthy, even in his current form, is better then Forster. He was shipped out because he wasn't good enough, and he still isn't. 

 

[tajjuk]

Neither really but McCarthy isn't really making any saves and is making mistakes, whilst Forster looks more confident than he used to.  

I'd personally give Forster a run as he can't really do much worse. 

The issue we've had is Forster completely lost his form, McCarthy was only ever supposed to be a back up and is a pure shot stopper with awful distribution who is now being asked to play out from the back more and Gunn was brought in as the young sweeper keeper who is good with his feet, but his confidence was shot and wasn't saving anything.

So unless Gunn comes back with some amazing form whilst on loan (no idea how he is doing but hes relatively young and was highly rated at City), I'd look for a new keeper to push McCarthy back to no.2. and sell the other two, Forster is like one of our highest paid players and is not justifying that wage in any way. 

But I think with our finances GK will be low down the priorities so we'll probably have hope McCarthy starts actually saving things again to make up for him giving the opposition free goals every so often because he struggles to pass more than about 15 yards. 

If we can get rid of Forster some how, then a cheap option might be Romero from Utd. 

Edited 9 February, 2021 by tajjuk

[Saint86]

Its unavoidable that McCarthy's confidence won't have been knocked surely? So i won't be too surprised to see Forster get some games.

[Badger]

14 hours ago, tajjuk said:

Neither really but McCarthy isn't really making any saves and is making mistakes, whilst Forster looks more confident than he used to.  

I'd personally give Forster a run as he can't really do much worse. 

So unless Gunn comes back with some amazing form whilst on loan (no idea how he is doing but hes relatively young and was highly rated at City), I'd look for a new keeper to push McCarthy back to no.2. and sell the other two, Forster is like one of our highest paid players and is not justifying that wage in any way. 

That remains to be seen. In an ideal world FF will come back in as he did in Koeman's last season and capture that form and effect on the defence to see an upturn in form until the end of the season.

That's nice in theory but In the real world though we've seen FF's limitations all too often to think these might have been eradicated from his game. McCarthy fucked up at Newcastle as he did at home to Arsenal last season with a pass out, but the prospect of FF dealing with the ball at his feet whilst giving the impression of playing in Size 11 wellington boots scares me shitless as well.

Can only hope for the FF of 2015/16 or whenever it was but can't bank on it.

Agree with you, new GK required although unlikely to be a priority.

[Uncle Albert]

Forster is an absolute dog when pushed hard. Sounds harsh but true. He hasn't been at his best since 15/16

Edited 10 February, 2021 by Uncle Albert

[DT]

Have to say I don't have massive confidence in either, but it's Forster at the moment for me. McCarthy seems shell-shocked (understandably) and so ponderous and unsure when it comes to playing it out from the back. Looks a shaky accident waiting to happen. Also, beaten too easily, too often (including on the near post). Forster has more presence and comes off the back of some clean sheets, but used to take forever to get down. Definitely think we need a new keeper in the off-season. Makes so much difference to the confidence of a back four.

[UpweySaint]

It’s odd, but understandable, that Gunn has fallen so far he’s not even in the discussion. lots of talk about replacing next season but with all three on our books there is no chance we are adding a fourth without any movement.
 

FWIW I don’t think there is much between Macca and Forster ability wise (confidence is key) and Forster should get a chance to claim the shirt if he performs well in the Wolves games. Macca hasn’t been great but his drop in form has largely coincided with the drop in form throughout the side. At the start of the season he was pulling off some top drawer saves and was an outside shout for the England squad.

 

 

 

[WALK DMC]

22 hours ago, CanadaSaint said:

I'm with you.

Forster's technique is - and always has been - dreadful. His footwork is diabolical because he spends most of his time on the flats of his feet, drastically limiting his speed and reach, and making him vulnerable to low shots. He is slow off his line and doesn't take advantage of his height when aerial danger threatens.

The only two areas in which I might put Forster ahead of McCarthy are distribution and communication.

The one other area where I think Forster has an advantage are savings shots from close range. Some of his best performances have been when he has saved attempts made from the 6 yard area. I recall the Arsenal away game as a good example. 

However, I would use the word "save" loosely. An alternative view would be that he is a big lump and quite difficult to avoid if you're only shooting from a few feet away and the ball regularly cannons off his body and diverts away. Perhaps not the biggest complement, but I do think that it is an advantage for certain types of chances over the likes of McCarthy who is less able to make himself big (and has been beaten at near post a few times lately). 

[stknowle]

On 09/02/2021 at 14:14, qwertyell said:

McCarthy has conceded 18 of the last 33 shots he's faced. 

Wouldn't be a surprise if the manager took him out of the firing line.

And the last goal he conceded was spectacularly crap, stupid hospital pass followed by being far too easily beaten at his near post. Let's see how Fraser gets on against Wolves, if he does well I think it might be time to change it up.

[The Cat]

3 hours ago, UpweySaint said:

It’s odd, but understandable, that Gunn has fallen so far he’s not even in the discussion. lots of talk about replacing next season but with all three on our books there is no chance we are adding a fourth without any movement.

Anyone know how he's doing at Stoke? I remember him getting injured but haven't heard much about him since. Stoke are crap so he's at least got a lot to do. 

[Matthew Le God]

14 hours ago, The Cat said:

Anyone know how he's doing at Stoke? I remember him getting injured but haven't heard much about him since. Stoke are crap so he's at least got a lot to do. 

He is back fit and starting for them. They also aren't having a bad season, they are challenging for the playoffs.

[disconnect]

Whilst looking for how Gunn was doing at Stoke noticed that Stoke have signed Shawn Wright-Phillips' son, who is 19 years old! Jeeezzzz. Doesn't seem that long ago he was a youngster himself! 

[Charlie Wayman]

Given a choice... neither!

[Charlie Wayman]

19 minutes ago, disconnect said:

Whilst looking for how Gunn was doing at Stoke noticed that Stoke have signed Shawn Wright-Phillips' son, who is 19 years old! Jeeezzzz. Doesn't seem that long ago he was a youngster himself! 

Maybe it doesn't seem so long ago that you were a youngster?

[eurosaint]

Ralph has said in his presser that McCarthy remains his no.1 although FF will play v Wolves in the cup !

Only really blamed him for the third goal v Newcastle and none of the Man Utd ones...

Said he's had a good season and will continue as before...

Perhaps he's just trying to keep him from losing confidence which would make a lot of sense, no point in slagging him off and then having to play him anyway !!

[Lord Duckhunter]

19 hours ago, WALK DMC said:

The one other area where I think Forster has an advantage are savings shots from close range. Some of his best performances have been when he has saved attempts made from the 6 yard area. I recall the Arsenal away game as a good example. 

However, I would use the word "save" loosely. An alternative view would be that he is a big lump and quite difficult to avoid if you're only shooting from a few feet away and the ball regularly cannons off his body and diverts away. Perhaps not the biggest complement, but I do think that it is an advantage for certain types of chances over the likes of McCarthy who is less able to make himself big (and has been beaten at near post a few times lately). 

Correct.

Even during his “purple” patch he was pretty pony. Shots just hit him, when he actually had to move towards the ball, he let most stuff in. He’s got the movement that reminds me of Bernard Bresslaw in stilettos. 

[trousers]

33 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Correct.

Even during his “purple” patch he was pretty pony. Shots just hit him, when he actually had to move towards the ball, he let most stuff in. He’s got the movement that reminds me of Bernard Bresslaw in stilettos. 

I would

[SKD]

I can’t say that I think either of them are any good. Both a liability with the ball at their feet, both capable of making pretty basic mistakes as well and funny enough, both make the odd world class save. 
 

Forster just edges it for me though. 

[niceandfriendly]

If you don't get dropped after conceding 16 goals in the last 4 games when do you get dropped? It's not just the goals conceded either, against Newcastle McCarthy was really poor especially for their 3rd goal.

If Fraser doesn't get his chance (after he impressed in his games let's remember) then Ralph isn't paying attention.

[cloggy saint]

32 minutes ago, niceandfriendly said:

If you don't get dropped after conceding 16 goals in the last 4 games when do you get dropped? It's not just the goals conceded either, against Newcastle McCarthy was really poor especially for their 3rd goal.

If Fraser doesn't get his chance (after he impressed in his games let's remember) then Ralph isn't paying attention.

Wrong. According to the stats McCarthy has made zero errors that lead to a goal this season. 16 goals against in 4 games is very misleading and says more about Saints' general recent performances than Macca's. He's a far better all round keeper than Forster.