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Summer Transfer Window 2021

Dusic

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Badger

Badger

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, egg said:

He's named after a village near Sheffield, not a Peruvian village, so he's as non hipster as a mug of tea. 

He'd make a bloody good signing though, and I've prefer a proven championship performer to a hipster who'll need a season to adapt. 

In a number of photos I've seen of Worrall he has a beard so doesn't this elevate him up the hipster scale ?

Not sure if he has an arm full of tatoos though.

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egg

egg

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Isn't Chez always banging the drum for us to sign Forest players? We might have to wait until he posts to get a true evaluation.

Also, what it Worrall is an actual hipster? He obviously earns decent money so not beyond the realms of possibility that he listens to music on a restored gramaphone and eats breakfast at a cereal restaurant.

If he hand grinds his home roasted coffee beans whilst listening to that gramophone, it's a no from me. 

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
Just now, TWar said:

I imagine so, plus a language barrier. On the other hand does that offset the fact that the jump in quality between top 5 leagues is significantly smaller than that between the Championship and the premier league?

Some very very good players have just not been suited to the premier league. Andre Shevehenko, brilliant for AC Milan, utter shit for Chelsea. Veron, brilliant football, shite and United. 

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tajjuk

tajjuk

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, TWar said:

I always wondered this, why would a player stepping from the Championship to the Premier league need less time to adapt than someone from the Spanish/French/German league to the premier league?

Do you think the prem is more similar to the English second tier than the German first tier, for example? Quality-wise it is certainly closer to the German first tier. I'm not necessarily saying I think the opposite as I don't know, I just think it's an interesting thing people tend to say quite often and wanted to know what was behind it.

I suppose because they are people as well, I less think it's about adapting to the league (though of course the Championship is closer in style to PL than probably France, Italy and Spain. Bundesliga is though be reports similar to PL) and more about adapting new culture, weather, new language and just the people. 

Moving to a new country is a much bigger deal than moving to a different city within the same country IMO. 

Plus we have quite a British dressing room unusually for a PL team. Adams, Armstrong, JWP, Redmond, both keepers, other Armstrong, Stephens, KWP, Tino, Long, Obafemi, Tella, Smallbone, all British or Irish. We only have 7 non UK and Ireland players, and Romeu is one of those and he's been here like 10 years. 

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egg

egg

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Badger said:

In a number of photos I've seen of Worrall he has a beard so doesn't this elevate him up the hipster scale ?

Not sure if he has an arm full of tatoos though.

I've studied that beard and it's not trimmed at right angles so don't panic. 

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TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, egg said:

I'm not sure why, but it happens that way. Take Adam Armstrong, makes his move and comes straight into the team. Adamo Del Armstrongo from some foreign league wouldn't have done that. Cash at Villa did well last season, Watkins too, ditto most of the Leeds players after promotion, etc. 

Always counter examples though, like for West Ham it took Bowen and Benrahma a while to establish themselves into the side after stepping up but Coufal and Soucek who both came over from the Czech league came in and hit the ground running immediately.

I think players after promotion are a bit different as they have already been training and playing together for years so they will obviously adapt more quickly than an individual player to a new team.

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egg

egg

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, tajjuk said:

I suppose because they are people as well, I less think it's about adapting to the league (though of course the Championship is closer in style to PL than probably France, Italy and Spain. Bundesliga is though be reports similar to PL) and more about adapting new culture, weather, new language and just the people. 

Moving to a new country is a much bigger deal than moving to a different city within the same country IMO. 

Plus we have quite a British dressing room unusually for a PL team. Adams, Armstrong, JWP, Redmond, both keepers, other Armstrong, Stephens, KWP, Tino, Long, Obafemi, Tella, Smallbone, all British or Irish. We only have 7 non UK and Ireland players, and Romeu is one of those and he's been here like 10 years. 

I think that's a big part of it. New culture, language, climate, must be a massive thing. A drive down the M1 is altogether different. 

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egg

egg

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, TWar said:

Always counter examples though, like for West Ham it took Bowen and Benrahma a while to establish themselves into the side after stepping up but Coufal and Soucek who both came over from the Czech league came in and hit the ground running immediately.

I think players after promotion are a bit different as they have already been training and playing together for years so they will obviously adapt more quickly than an individual player to a new team.

Sure, there are successes and failures, but for me, I think given that we need someone to come in, integrate, play and succeed, I'd be happy with a proven championship player. Even a hipster. 

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TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

I suppose because they are people as well, I less think it's about adapting to the league (though of course the Championship is closer in style to PL than probably France, Italy and Spain. Bundesliga is though be reports similar to PL) and more about adapting new culture, weather, new language and just the people. 

Moving to a new country is a much bigger deal than moving to a different city within the same country IMO. 

Plus we have quite a British dressing room unusually for a PL team. Adams, Armstrong, JWP, Redmond, both keepers, other Armstrong, Stephens, KWP, Tino, Long, Obafemi, Tella, Smallbone, all British or Irish. We only have 7 non UK and Ireland players, and Romeu is one of those and he's been here like 10 years. 

I think the Championship is getting further and further away from the prem in style and with the importing of european managers we play more and more like clubs on the continent. For example, stylistically we play a lot more like one of the RB clubs than anyone in the Championship (although unfortunately much less successfully) as that's where Ralph learnt his trade.

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TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, egg said:

Sure, there are successes and failures, but for me, I think given that we need someone to come in, integrate, play and succeed, I'd be happy with a proven championship player. Even a hipster. 

To be honest I just want the best player possible, be it some lad from the Championship or someone from the French second tier or the russian league.

I think anecdotally most of our good signings came from other leagues like Mane, Tadic, Pelle, VvD, Alderweireld, ect. or came up with us. I can't think of that many great Championship signings we've made since being back in the prem, JRod, Redmond, Clyne, Charlie Austin, and Adams are the first who spring to mind and that is quite a mixed bag with no real worldstars like those we picked up from the continent.

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Come to think of it Chez did suggest him the other day. 
 

Maybe he drinks in gin bars and speaks very slowly and loudly about left wing politics after all 

...not a big gin fan.

Yeah, I think I may have mentioned him last summer too along with Matty Cash. I get dragged to Forest and Brum games, and its pretty easy to spot a Bellingham among the dross.

I think Worrall can make the step up to the Prem. He was their best player last season and has been solid for two or three seasons now. I've only been to a few Forest games in recent seasons (brother in law is a supporter), but in those he looked calm and efficient. He's tall and as a result decent in the air. He seemed OK on the ball. I didn't get a read on his pace, but I don't recall him looking slow. Forest played one up front in those games and kept things tight, so CBs were never exposed. Even Matty Cash didn't catch the eye as he didn't get license to push forward.  I am not sure I can provide any further useful input as my eye tends to be on ball players.

Forrest wanted £15m for him last season when Burnley enquired (as they thought Tarkowski was off). I'd guess they'd still want the same, although they are desperate to sell a player due to FPP preventing them spend before they sell. West Ham will still want Tarkowski, so Burnley may still want Worrall. With scouting abroad challenging, I wouldn't be surprised if he was watched a fair few times by our scouts. 

 

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Pat from Poole said:

Wonder if Forest would be interested in Obafemi or Shane…..

"Err no thanks" was the response from my brother in law when I suggested it, but that was the exact same response before we got £1.2m out of them for McGoldrick (to fund Sir Ricky transfer), so who knows.

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danjosaint

danjosaint

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Turkish said:

Some very very good players have just not been suited to the premier league. Andre Shevehenko, brilliant for AC Milan, utter shit for Chelsea. Veron, brilliant football, shite and United. 

Carrillo prolific for Monaco....... oh wait 

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Stu Man Do

Stu Man Do

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Averaged a goal every other game according to some on here…..

😂 didn’t the football hipsters trot out some stat about how he had the best goals to minutes ratio in the league or some such? 
 

Sadly he had few goals in not many minutes  ! Biggest face palm signing ever!

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Chez said:

...not a big gin fan.

Yeah, I think I may have mentioned him last summer too along with Matty Cash. I get dragged to Forest and Brum games, and its pretty easy to spot a Bellingham among the dross.

I think Worrall can make the step up to the Prem. He was their best player last season and has been solid for two or three seasons now. I've only been to a few Forest games in recent seasons (brother in law is a supporter), but in those he looked calm and efficient. He's tall and as a result decent in the air. He seemed OK on the ball. I didn't get a read on his pace, but I don't recall him looking slow. Forest played one up front in those games and kept things tight, so CBs were never exposed. Even Matty Cash didn't catch the eye as he didn't get license to push forward.  I am not sure I can provide any further useful input as my eye tends to be on ball players.

Forrest wanted £15m for him last season when Burnley enquired (as they thought Tarkowski was off). I'd guess they'd still want the same, although they are desperate to sell a player due to FPP preventing them spend before they sell. West Ham will still want Tarkowski, so Burnley may still want Worrall. With scouting abroad challenging, I wouldn't be surprised if he was watched a fair few times by our scouts. 

 

Worrall looks decent from what I've seen, plus he's from Hucknall and I've never met anyone soft from there. Should be a decent physical presence and from what I have seen, shows leadership too. Yep, he'll do. 

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, Stu Man Do said:

😂 didn’t the football hipsters trot out some stat about how he had the best goals to minutes ratio in the league or some such? 
 

Sadly he had few goals in not many minutes  ! Biggest face palm signing ever!

Something like that, basically he had the best goals to minutes ratio if you took out pretty much every minute that worked against him

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Worrall looks decent from what I've seen, plus he's from Hucknall and I've never met anyone soft from there. Should be a decent physical presence and from what I have seen, shows leadership too. Yep, he'll do. 

I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone from Hucknall before, is it the Basingstoke of the midlands?

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woodsaint1

woodsaint1

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Tosin Adrabioyo And Joe Worrall seem to be the two main names in the frame at the moment. 

Nothing would breathe confidence into our struggling back four more than a choice of young CBs, one of whom was badly exposed at CB in the PL last season and the another whose experience doesnt extend beyond a mid-table championship club. We already have a starting CB who is young and still developing. Throwing another in beside him will not help matters.

Sorry for feeling underwhelmed, but if either is our replacement for Vestergaard we're in big trouble imo. Genuinely believe our PL status next season could hinge on this signing as its a crucial position

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

Nothing would breathe confidence into our struggling back four more than a choice of young CBs, one of whom was badly exposed at CB in the PL last season and the another whose experience doesnt extend beyond a mid-table championship club. We already have a starting CB who is young and still developing. Throwing another in beside him will not help matters.

Sorry for feeling underwhelmed, but if either is our replacement for Vestergaard we're in big trouble imo. Genuinely believe our PL status next season could hinge on this signing as its a crucial position

I completely agree. The obsession with signing young players thinking how much we can sell them for could be our downfall. That’s all well and good but sometimes you need to have a bit of proven quality and experience. 

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WALK DMC

WALK DMC

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Pilchards said:

Knowing us we will bring in another right back.

Maybe a 22 and a half minute rotation between the 3 we already have.

It's pretty obvious that Valery isn't rated - considering he was sent out on loan when we had desperate needs for right back last January. I am sure they are trying to move him on in the next 2 weeks. 

Even after 1 appearance it is clear that Tino is an upgrade on Valery, so I am really happy with this area of our recruitment, plus he can also play in midfield. It will be good competition for KWP too - it might actually motivate him further. The thought of both Tino and KWP on our right flank also has potential. 

So far, recruitment has been good this window, we have moved on the players with 1 year left and got decent money, we've brought in a few players who can compete in the 1st team straight away and offer genuine potential.

For the first time in years we face the last 2 weeks of the transfer window with £20m+ in our back pocket to get a strong experienced CB, decent CM and backup left back. Plus we may be still able to shift the likes of Obafemi and Valery to further increase our budget. 

There are plenty of recent activities where it fair to take a pot shot at the activities of the management team, but you are really scrapping the barrel in making sarcastic comments regarding our recruitment at right back. Maybe you should save those until 1st September when we know the results of the full window. 

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MarkSFC

MarkSFC

Posted
Posted (edited)

In an ideal scenario we sign a youthful up and coming CB plus the CB we need more, which is one that goes straight in tbe team and ups the level, hopefully helping to raise the levels of Bednarek and Salisu at the same time.

 

I'm not expecting the ideal scenario to pan out and nor do I expect the later player to turn up.😒😒

 

On that basis, I worry for our goals against number this season, especially as Romeu will most likely get injured or suspended and or just not be as effective. 

Edited by MarkSFC
Predictive text!
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Saint Pete

Saint Pete

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, davefizzy14 said:

I'm hoping what the telegraph was saying that we are talking to some targets from abroad. We need a top quality centre back signing. Caleta-Car please.

Interesting that some seem to equate signing players from abroad as a guarantee of quality. Personally, think we should be looking to sign a CB with a few hundred games behind them in UK football this time preferably. Must say I don't know a lot about this Caleta Car guy though.

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waylander

waylander

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, MarkSFC said:

In an ideal scenario we sign a youthful up and coming CB plus the CB we need more, which is one that goes straight in tbe team and ups the level, hopefully helping to raise the levels of Bednarek and Salisu at the same time.

 

I'm not expecting the ideal scenario to pan out and nor do I expect the later player to turn up.😒😒

 

On that basis, I worry for our goals against number this season, especially as Romeu will most likely get injured or suspended and or just not be as effective. 

The up and coming CB is Simeu

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Badger

Badger

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Saint Pete said:

Interesting that some seem to equate signing players from abroad as a guarantee of quality. Personally, think we should be looking to sign a CB with a few hundred games behind them in UK football this time preferably. Must say I don't know a lot about this Caleta Car guy though.

Fair point, and some of our signings from Europe have been questionable despite coming from fairly sizeable and impressive clubs, Hoedt, Lemina, and to a lesser extent Hojberg. 

Dilemna now though is whether a few hundred games in the UK at Championship level is enough for them to make the step up as we're unlikely to be able to afford a player with that experience at EPL level.

 

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MarkSFC

MarkSFC

Posted
Posted
58 minutes ago, waylander said:

The up and coming CB is Simeu

Well...my definition of up and coming is like another Salisu, not someone who will be in the U23s for a season. Maybe Simeu is going to be in tbe first team quicker in which case, that's great!

My issue is I don't think Stephens is good enough (nor will he get any better) which doesn't help progress the team. 

I think he could be an extremely good addition to a promotion chasing championship team. 

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beatlesaint

beatlesaint

Posted
Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, MarkSFC said:

My issue is I don't think Stephens is good enough (nor will he get any better) which doesn't help progress the team. 

Well he isn’t, despite what some people may try and force upon us, he’s 27, experienced now, yet he makes the same basic errors time after time. If he has a couple of error free games people start on about how good he is blah blah blah…..

At the end of last season I said to a mate of mine whatever Saints do in the summer next season I do not want to see Stephens or Redmond at the club or anywhere near the first team……yet they are both still heavily involved, they are part of the dead wood that needs shifting!!

 

Edited by beatlesaint
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Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Saint Pete said:

Interesting that some seem to equate signing players from abroad as a guarantee of quality. Personally, think we should be looking to sign a CB with a few hundred games behind them in UK football this time preferably. Must say I don't know a lot about this Caleta Car guy though.

I don't think i've seen anyone say that foreign signings are a "guarantee of quality". But its undeniable that they can offer good value for money if scouted well. Our best signings in recent years have been VVD, Tadic, Mane, Pelle, Toby etc. Our British signings have been for comparable sums and are/were no where near their level.

Conversely, do a crap job of scouting players from abroad and you end up with Carillo's, Hoedt's and Lemina's.

So actually, i would say the general rule is that foreign signings offer potentially far better value, but at a much higher risk.

Just take west ham as an example. £40+ million spent on Bowen (end of contract and £20m) and Benrahma (17months left at £21m) - both of whom are good, but they picked up Coufal (£5.4m) and Soucek (£14.5m) for half that 🤷‍♂️

Edited by Saint86
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OfnPanad

OfnPanad

Posted
Posted (edited)

The Championship and PL are a world apart. I remember Jos Hooiveld was one of the best CBs in the league for our promotion season and then looked completely shell-shocked in his few games in the Premier League.


Hooiveld is an absolutely top bloke, by the way. I feel that his attitude, like Nigel's, meant he should have been given more of a chance. Anyway I think it shows we would be really lucky if we found a mid table Championship club CB who could immediately start and look good.

Edited by OfnPanad
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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, OfnPanad said:

The Championship and PL are a world apart. I remember Jos Hooiveld was one of the best CBs in the league for our promotion season and then looked completely shell-shocked in his few games in the Premier League.


Hooiveld is an absolutely top bloke, by the way. I feel that his attitude, like Nigel's, meant he should have been given more of a chance. Anyway I think it shows we would be really lucky if we found a mid table Championship club CB who could immediately start and look good.

hmmm, im not sure about that. I remember him being popular because he was a top bloke and scored a few goals but defensively was quite limited. 

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Saint Garrett

Saint Garrett

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Turkish said:

hmmm, im not sure about that. I remember him being popular because he was a top bloke and scored a few goals but defensively was quite limited. 

He was perfect for the championship, had an excellent season. We did also beat Man City at home with Hooiveld and Yoshida at the back in our return to the prem...

Fonte was the shakier one in the championship, and excelled in the premier league.

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tajjuk

tajjuk

Posted
Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, OfnPanad said:

The Championship and PL are a world apart.

That is clearly not true because loads of players successfully make the step up.  Even more so in recent years. 

Like I said before the Championship IMO is a lot stronger and of higher quality these days than many 'top' European leagues, who we frequently buy from like the SPL, Swiss league, Eredivisie etc. 

As with everything in football these days its about the money, the Championship is well watched, well supported and full of ex-PL clubs who are earning parachute payments which means the wages on off in the league from a lot of clubs is going to be higher than many places in Europe, even in some of Europe's top 5 leagues, especially as many of those leagues don't distribute money anywhere near as evenly as the PL does. 

The yearly wage bills for the bottom 12 clubs in La Liga ranges from about £11 million to about £38 million a year, in 18/19 the average Championship wage bill was £34 million.  The Championship can offer wages that no other second league in Europe can match and many top leagues can match, which of course attracts and retains better players and increases the quality of the league. 

Edited by tajjuk
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