January 2022 Transfer Window

[Toadhall Saint]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

there are no details or link to an old story even. Weird. Cant see any other rumour/stories about him either

Lazy stuff if you ask me. Gets us talking and clicking through. Also mentions Yan Valery tho but there have been rumours with him and St Etienne (sp)

[S-Clarke]

Sky don't check sources a lot of the time, they just throw it out there for the big story. A lot of what they report in January is agent fed or twitter rubbish.

They are like twitter on steroids on deadline day.

[Viking Saint]

53 minutes ago, Chez said:

my point being, if you managed someone like Spurs, West Ham or Villa (who would have the required funds to tempt us) would you look to sign him? Has he done enough to impress `top 6' type clubs? I was surprised Leicester signed Vestegaard, but as you suggest, perhaps we as fans are too harsh on our CBs...perhaps.

As was I. Spending millions on half of a back four you put 9 goals past doesn't strike me as shrewd business tbh.....

[Sheaf Saint]

6 minutes ago, Viking Saint said:

As was I. Spending millions on half of a back four you put 9 goals past doesn't strike me as shrewd business tbh.....

Technically, Bertrand wasn't part of the back 4 that conceded 9 goals, but I get your point.

1 hour ago, Chez said:

I was surprised Leicester signed Vestegaard, but as you suggest, perhaps we as fans are too harsh on our CBs...perhaps.

Given the savage criticism both he and Bertrand have been getting from the Leicester fans, I'd say it's not just us.

[Mattster]

So the article above seems to suggest that other prem clubs are in for Broja in this window. It is Sky Sports of course, so hopefully it has no basis in fact, but does anyone know if the loan agreement we have would allow this to happen? I'd love us to sign him but am resigned to him going back to Chelsea at the end of the season. If another club managed to swoop in for him, especially right now, that would be really gutting. If it was Newcastle, and he came back and scored against us.. I think there might be medical emergency in the family stand!

[SuperSAINT]

Aston Villa set to win the race to sign Kerr Smith from Dundee Utd — We (& most of the prem) were interested.

— The Athletic

Edited 13 January, 2022 by SuperSAINT

[cloggy saint]

3 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

Replacement at burnley for chris wood 

 

joking of course

Haven't they got a similar goal scoring record this season?

[Lee On Solent Saint]

12 hours ago, Chez said:

my point being, if you managed someone like Spurs, West Ham or Villa (who would have the required funds to tempt us) would you look to sign him? Has he done enough to impress `top 6' type clubs? I was surprised Leicester signed Vestegaard, but as you suggest, perhaps we as fans are too harsh on our CBs...perhaps.

I don't think he is genuine top six starter material. Think he would be decent enough cover for a team like Villa or West Ham. I think we because we had the likes of Van Dyk, Lovern and Fonte in recent years we've come to expect the same type of player. I think for where we are as a club at the moment, Beds is just fine as a starter.

[Chez]

5 hours ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I don't think he is genuine top six starter material. Think he would be decent enough cover for a team like Villa or West Ham. I think we because we had the likes of Van Dyk, Lovern and Fonte in recent years we've come to expect the same type of player. I think for where we are as a club at the moment, Beds is just fine as a starter.

we are where we are because we have the players we have.

[TWar]

I think Bednarek is bang average unfortunately. Since Ralph has arrived he has improved from a championship level player to a 15th-20th level prem player but in a back 4 of Tino, Salisu, and KWP, all three of which I think are good enough to compete for the top 8, he really stands out. Not as much as whatever player we have in goal, but still a definite weak link.

If we could get £15m for him id sell and try to upgrade.

Edited 14 January, 2022 by TWar

[Dman]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

I think Bednarek is bang average unfortunately. Since Ralph has arrived he has improved from a championship level player to a 15th-20th level prem player but in a back 4 of Tino, Salisu, and KWP, all three of which I think are good enough to compete for the top 8, he really stands out. Not as much as whatever player we have in goal, but still a definite weak link.

If we could get £15m for him id sell and try to upgrade.

I actually think Bednerak is one who has regressed since Ralph has come in, specifically since the start of last year where at points his confidence seemed completely shot. 

Not that I particularly rated Him in the first place, and do agree that he’s pretty bang average

He’s a decent throw sticking body on the line and throwing yourself in front of the ball / last ditch type, however in the main this is because his marking and positioning is pretty poor; the best defenders don’t need to make those last ditch tackles as they’re much better at reading the game. 

[egg]

21 minutes ago, TWar said:

I think Bednarek is bang average unfortunately. Since Ralph has arrived he has improved from a championship level player to a 15th-20th level prem player but in a back 4 of Tino, Salisu, and KWP, all three of which I think are good enough to compete for the top 8, he really stands out. Not as much as whatever player we have in goal, but still a definite weak link.

If we could get £15m for him id sell and try to upgrade.

How do you get better than a £15m player with £15m? It's like selling a house for £500k and expecting to buy a better one in the same area for £500k. 

[Sarisbury Saint]

37 minutes ago, TWar said:

I think Bednarek is bang average unfortunately. Since Ralph has arrived he has improved from a championship level player to a 15th-20th level prem player but in a back 4 of Tino, Salisu, and KWP, all three of which I think are good enough to compete for the top 8, he really stands out. Not as much as whatever player we have in goal, but still a definite weak link.

If we could get £15m for him id sell and try to upgrade.

Take your Ralph tinted spectacles off.

He has done anything but improve.

He’s had a couple of good games lately, that’s all.

[verlaine1979]

21 minutes ago, egg said:

How do you get better than a £15m player with £15m? It's like selling a house for £500k and expecting to buy a better one in the same area for £500k. 

Get another Salisu?

Bednarek and both of our current first choice GKs have their flaws exposed because of the style we play. We really need all of the back five to be comfortable passing the ball around at the back, and Bednarek pretty much sh*ts himself every time he has to pass the ball more than about five yards.

[Matthew Le God]

1 hour ago, egg said:

How do you get better than a £15m player with £15m? It's like selling a house for £500k and expecting to buy a better one in the same area for £500k. 

Cedric went to Arsenal for £5m

Livramento joined for £5m

Who is the better player?

[Dusic]

21 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Cedric went to Arsenal for £5m

Livramento joined for £5m

Who is the better player?

I believe that is incorrect. Cedric joined Arsenal on loan, with Arsenal paying a loan fee of about £1m-£1.5m and then signing him permanently when his Saints contract ended.

Saints made a saving on his wages for the 6months of the loan which some reports then used incorrectly, in addition to the loan fee to make this mythical £5m sale that you erroneously refer to.

[tajjuk]

Thing I think about Bednerak is that he's a jack of all trades, master of none centre-back, he doesn't everything ok but doesn't really stand out in anything which then means he gets beaten by people who are strong in those areas. Like he's decent in the air but not dominant so people who are strong in the air will out do him, he's not slow but hardly rapid so people with good pace out pace him, he's ok on the ball but not brilliant, he's quite committed but doesn't block everything etc. 

Definitely one we can upgrade I reckon. 

[JibMcdo]

Fans always want a scapegoat and as we have improved recently it looks as though Bednarek is next on the list.

I think he’s underrated by most. Ralph likes his centre halves to be ultra aggressive in their marking and try to restrict the ball getting to a striker’s feet and this is definitely his main strength. - probably why he’s been a mainstay since the manager’s arrival. He’s good in the air and he can put in a great last ditch block. No he isn’t perfect, he can be weak running towards his own goal a la Jimenez against Wolves, but he’s a big part of an improving back line and he’s worth way more to us than £15m.

[S-Clarke]

Bednarek is a funny one, when he's on form he's a decent, reliable and experienced PL defender. If he drops off it's an extreme drop off...and he just forgets how to defend. It's calamity city when he's off form.

I don't think he's really changed under Ralph a great deal, he's got older, more experienced but he still has flaws in his game. He's aggressive and does commit, but if he's caught out he lacks the agility and pace to recover, whereas compared to Salisu...he has that ability to recover. If we wanted to push up with the Villas, Leicester's etc his is a position I'd look to evolve and give Salisu a better partner.

Nothing wrong with him for where are now though, a fairly solid player most of the time.

Edited 14 January, 2022 by S-Clarke

[egg]

1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

Cedric went to Arsenal for £5m

Livramento joined for £5m

Who is the better player?

That's comparing apples to cabbages. Different windows, different types of deals, and different circumstances. The issue here is selling Bednarek now for £15m and replacing him with better for £15m. It won't happen and I've not read one suggestion of who we might get. 

[TWar]

2 hours ago, Dman said:

I actually think Bednerak is one who has regressed since Ralph has come in, specifically since the start of last year where at points his confidence seemed completely shot. 

Not that I particularly rated Him in the first place, and do agree that he’s pretty bang average

He’s a decent throw sticking body on the line and throwing yourself in front of the ball / last ditch type, however in the main this is because his marking and positioning is pretty poor; the best defenders don’t need to make those last ditch tackles as they’re much better at reading the game. 

Bednarek when Ralph came in was benched, starting 5 games in the previous season and a half, unable to get past Hoedt, Stephens and Vestergaard who were at the time one of the worst defences in the league. The season before that he was in the Polish league, and wasn't considered great there either. If you say he has regressed since Ralph I'd ask when do you think he was better?

2 hours ago, egg said:

How do you get better than a £15m player with £15m? It's like selling a house for £500k and expecting to buy a better one in the same area for £500k. 

Better scouting than the guys who buy Bednarek... We sold Vestergaard for £4m more than we bought Salisu for, so something like that.

Edited 14 January, 2022 by TWar

[egg]

2 minutes ago, TWar said:

Bednarek when Ralph came in was benched, starting 5 games in the previous season and a half, unable to get past Hoedt, Stephens and Vestergaard who were at the time one of the worst defences in the league. He might not be great now, but he's better than that.

Better scouting than the guys who buy Bednarek... We sold Vestergaard for £4m more than we bought Salisu for, so something like that.

Yep, but unless I'm mistaken, you're advocating Bednarek now for £15m. Who are gonna get for £15m who's an upgrade and can be a starter this season? Salisu took an age to settle. 

[TWar]

5 minutes ago, egg said:

Yep, but unless I'm mistaken, you're advocating Bednarek now for £15m. Who are gonna get for £15m who's an upgrade and can be a starter this season? Salisu took an age to settle. 

I don't care about getting a starter right now. If we sign someone who takes a season to bed in and just play Stephens and Lyanco in that season then that is fine, Bednarek is marginally better than both probably but not that much and if that means we have another Salisu in a years time that is a sacrifice I am perfectly willing to make.

And that is if we sign someone with an injury like Salisu, we could sign someone smart, young, and quality for no money through scouting which is so good that even a chunk of our fans don't realise what great business we have done. We call this move "an insane signing" and we managed it pretty recently.

Edited 14 January, 2022 by TWar

[waylander]

18 minutes ago, TWar said:

I don't care about getting a starter right now. If we sign someone who takes a season to bed in and just play Stephens and Lyanco in that season then that is fine, Bednarek is marginally better than both probably but not that much and if that means we have another Salisu in a years time that is a sacrifice I am perfectly willing to make.

And that is if we sign someone with an injury like Salisu, we could sign someone smart, young, and quality for no money through scouting which is so good that even a chunk of our fans don't realise what great business we have done. We call this move "an insane signing" and we managed it pretty recently.

You just described Simeu

[TWar]

1 minute ago, waylander said:

You just described Simeu

Big shout. I don't know if Simeu is good enough to start next season and play on the level of Salisu, I think it will take a while for him to reach that level. Could be wrong though.

[FarehamSaintJames]

We need to get to a point where we stop talking about players we can “bed in” or be “one for the future”.

To stay in this league we need to have a solid spine done the team and players who are ready now, not in two or three years time.

Yes, I don’t expect the transfer policy to change much but that’s also part of the problem, sometimes you get the Tino Livramento’s, other times you get the Wesley Hoedts…..

[SuperSAINT]

3 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

sometimes you get the Tino Livramento’s

Unfortunately, very rarely.  But SO pleased we got him.

Don't often get "Big six" top prospects & on the cheap.

[S-Clarke]

5 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

Unfortunately, very rarely.  But SO pleased we got him.

Don't often get "Big six" top prospects & on the cheap.

I think we've put ourselves at the front of the queue to snap up future ones though.

There will always be top players that aren't getting the pathway at big clubs, as the big club can go out and spend £100m on instant success. So if these young kids want to play, we are an example of providing that. Tino sets our image very clearly and that will make us very attractive, I feel as if we're trying to build a Dortmund style model in England.

[Toadhall Saint]

3 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I think we've put ourselves at the front of the queue to snap up future ones though.

There will always be top players that aren't getting the pathway at big clubs, as the big club can go out and spend £100m on instant success. So if these young kids want to play, we are an example of providing that. Tino sets our image very clearly and that will make us very attractive, I feel as if we're trying to build a Dortmund style model in England.

We are not the only ones - CPFC are also in the hunt. Also we can’t offer the same to everyone unless we will only offer to those that are in positions we want to improve in. What happens when you have an overload in on or two positions? The pathway is blocked.

[S-Clarke]

13 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

We are not the only ones - CPFC are also in the hunt. Also we can’t offer the same to everyone unless we will only offer to those that are in positions we want to improve in. What happens when you have an overload in on or two positions? The pathway is blocked.

I guess with Tino it's a bit of an extreme example, as this is a full youth player who'd never played any pro mins - that's the sort of player I think we'll be targeting, rather than the Conor Gallagher's etc.

Funnily enough the overload happened when we signed Tino, as we already had a first choice in KWP there with Valery as backup at that point. We've thrown Tino right in as he's clearly good enough, but that has shown that as a club we don't care how old you are and if you're good enough you could even oust our current first choice player. (and he's now had to change position for the most part)

[woodsaint1]

15 million for a 25 year old with nearly 40 caps for a good international side in Poland and over 3 years left on his contract. No thanks. Couldnt even replace him with a championship CB for that money

[Chez]

50 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

15 million for a 25 year old with nearly 40 caps for a good international side in Poland and over 3 years left on his contract. No thanks. Couldnt even replace him with a championship CB for that money

Marseilles' Caleta-car was mentioned on here in the summer as a possible CB option (we signed Lyranco of course). Wolves have apparently bid £12.9m for him https://www.molineux.news/transfer-news/wolves-have-reportedly-made-bids-for-botman-and-caleta-car/ whether that's enough to get him, I don't know, nor if he is a better player than Bednarek, but he might be. He's 25 with 20 Croatia caps. 

[benjii]

7 hours ago, egg said:

How do you get better than a £15m player with £15m? It's like selling a house for £500k and expecting to buy a better one in the same area for £500k. 

Maybe we can spend more than what we make now? 

[FarehamSaintJames]

2 hours ago, benjii said:

Maybe we can spend more than what we make now? 

See I thought Everton were confined by financial fair play but that seems to have gone out the window six months down the line 🙄

[egg]

3 hours ago, benjii said:

Maybe we can spend more than what we make now? 

Possibly mate but I was responding to the point that TWar made that we sell for £15m now and upgrade him now for the same money. No suggested replacement has been named and I don't see it as a realistic idea. 

[egg]

5 hours ago, adriansfc said:

What's wrong with that? 15m seems one, but 20-25m and I'd sell him simply because I don't think we're weaker with Stephens or Lyanco in there. That money on a decent defender in the summer would be the priority. 

If we can't get a Bednarek upgrade for 20-25m then we have much bigger issues in the scouting department. Saying who will we get to random people on an internet forum with no scouting experience is a little pointless. Even those who can throw out plenty of names don't know exact costs, wages and desire to join. 

Lyanco is no upgrade for me. He's got heart and desire but he's erratic. Bednarek ain't great in any department, but he's not poor in any department either. He's decent enough at this level and does a job and personally I'd keep him. That said, we can do better but you've waded into a discussion without appreciating the context. The suggestion was we sell Bednarek now for £15m and replace him now with a better player for £15m. That's unrealistic imo, and it's pretty reasonable to ask anyone who has that idea who they have in mind and your - in the real world "just sell him and get an upgrade for the same cash" just doesn't work. 

[Minsk]

52 minutes ago, egg said:

Possibly mate but I was responding to the point that TWar made that we sell for £15m now and upgrade him now for the same money. No suggested replacement has been named and I don't see it as a realistic idea. 

Do you think a player's transfer fee is based purely on their current ability? Or would you agree that other factors come into play such as: need/desire of selling club for player to leave; length of contract at selling club; age; potential/experience; nationality - to name but a few. 

[egg]

29 minutes ago, Minsk said:

Do you think a player's transfer fee is based purely on their current ability? Or would you agree that other factors come into play such as: need/desire of selling club for player to leave; length of contract at selling club; age; potential/experience; nationality - to name but a few. 

Yep, of course. I go back to the point of who is it suggested that we upgrade Bednarek with for the same money that we sell him for? 

[danjosaint]

I also would keep Bednarek but purely as squad player and get rid of Stephens, From what I've seen of Lyanco imo he is poor, far to rash and positional poor for this league, Ralph doesn't help by getting them pushing up and diving into tackles high up the pitch, the 3 or 4 times Brentford caused us problems was because Lyanco dived in and missed tackles, Salisu does the same but gets away with it a bit more

[Minsk]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Yep, of course. I go back to the point of who is it suggested that we upgrade Bednarek with for the same money that we sell him for? 

That's up to the scouting network. I have no idea. Had never heard of Salisu before he joined (for example). Also, what would one consider an upgrade? Someone more agile? More dominant in the air? Greater positional awareness? Of course, all 3 would be fantastic but even an upgrade in 1 of those (providing other elements were equivalent) would still make the player an upgrade. No?

No one is saying that it would be easy to upgrade him. Unrealistic? Not really. Unlikely? Sure. Personally, I don't think we should sell Bednarek right now. He is an experienced international and an average PL CB. Plenty worse than him about. A fair few better, especially at clubs higher up. There are some CBs better at some things but lacking in others compared to him. No matter how good they are though, all CBs get punished for making mistakes. And they all make them. Do I want better than him as a starting CB here? Yes. I also realise that we are an average (currently) midtable team, so about his level. But we could upgrade, even for whatever fee we might get if we did sell.

[woodsaint1]

7 hours ago, Chez said:

Marseilles' Caleta-car was mentioned on here in the summer as a possible CB option (we signed Lyranco of course). Wolves have apparently bid £12.9m for him https://www.molineux.news/transfer-news/wolves-have-reportedly-made-bids-for-botman-and-caleta-car/ whether that's enough to get him, I don't know, nor if he is a better player than Bednarek, but he might be. He's 25 with 20 Croatia caps. 

Hes out of contract next June so Marseille would be looking at offers now or in the summer. Cant see him going for less than 15m

[Minsk]

14 hours ago, Dman said:

I actually think Bednerak is one who has regressed since Ralph has come in, specifically since the start of last year where at points his confidence seemed completely shot. 

. 

Same old anti-Ralph agenda. In what ways was Bednarek better pre-Ralph? Complete garbage.

[eurosaint]

Let's hope that Semmens and Ralph read this thread as there are so many tips that could make a huge difference to our team selection and scouting policy...

🤣🤣🤣

[Chez]

9 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

Hes out of contract next June so Marseille would be looking at offers now or in the summer. Cant see him going for less than 15m

yeah, June 2023. Only played 9 games this season. Had covid earlier in season, but has maybe fallen out of favour more recently as not been in side.

[badgerx16]

On 13/01/2022 at 22:19, Mattster said:

So the article above seems to suggest that other prem clubs are in for Broja in this window. It is Sky Sports of course, so hopefully it has no basis in fact, but does anyone know if the loan agreement we have would allow this to happen? I'd love us to sign him but am resigned to him going back to Chelsea at the end of the season. If another club managed to swoop in for him, especially right now, that would be really gutting. If it was Newcastle, and he came back and scored against us.. I think there might be medical emergency in the family stand!

I suspect that for the duration of the loan Broja is a Southampton player, and unless Chelsea have a recall clause for this window he stays here. It is possible that Chelsea could still sell him to another team, effective from the end of the loan, but I doubt they would recall him to sell in this window as I don't think they need the money.

Edited 15 January, 2022 by badgerx16

[TWar]

30 minutes ago, egg said:

Yep, of course. I go back to the point of who is it suggested that we upgrade Bednarek with for the same money that we sell him for? 

People on this forum could suggest people, Caleta-Car, tosin, Worrall or whatever. But we don't know how much they would be, if they are keen on joining, wages, if the clubs are willing to sell etc. We want the scouting department that signed Tino, KWP, Salisu etc. to have the money at their disposal that we could get for Bednarek because we trust them to find a better defender.

[Chez]

5 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

I suspect that for the duration of the loan Broja is a Southampton player, and unless Chelsea have a recall clause for this window he stays here. It is possible that Chelsea could still sell him to another team, effective from the end of the loan, but I doubt they would recall him to sell in this window as I don't think they need the money.

There are mixed opinions as to whether current Prem rules allow a loan to be terminated early unless the prem and both parties agree to it, or indeed if you are allowed to place an agreement into the loan contract that enables you to terminate the loan early anymore. We obviously wouldn't be keen unless we were the one signing him or Chelsea paid us a sizeable sum of money, which I think has happened before elsewhere.

[LuckyNumber7]

Bednarek is pretty crap imo yet seems to escape a lot of the criticism aimed at some other players on here. He is as slow as Vestegaard, Bambi on ice with the ball at his feet and poor positionally and has been the mainstay of our awful defence that has shipped so many goals over the last few years. For me he is behind Stephens and Lyanco, I guess as a fourth choice he is fine but if we were offered £15M I'd snap their hands off, I can't imagine any other PL side being interested.

What we really need (probably in the summer) is a new starting quality CB to partner Salisu but as we already have 4 CBs (plus Simeu) we need to sell one first. 

[Chez]

1 minute ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

Bednarek is pretty crap imo yet seems to escape a lot of the criticism aimed at some other players on here. He is as slow as Vestegaard, Bambi on ice with the ball at his feet and poor positionally and has been the mainstay of our awful defence that has shipped so many goals over the last few years. For me he is behind Stephens and Lyanco, I guess as a fourth choice he is fine but if we were offered £15M I'd snap their hands off, I can't imagine any other PL side being interested.

What we really need (probably in the summer) is a new starting quality CB to partner Salisu but as we already have 4 CBs (plus Simeu) we need to sell one first. 

he ain't behind Lyanco.

[TWar]

36 minutes ago, Minsk said:

Same old anti-Ralph agenda. In what ways was Bednarek better pre-Ralph? Complete garbage.

Pre Ralph he had 5 starts behind Hoedt, Stephens and Vestergaard in a season and a half and then was a £4m signing from the Polish league (and fans at the time had no idea why we bought him). Now he is a starting prem cb and polish international.

To think he has "regressed" you'd need to be an idiot.