Ralph out Howe In?

[nta786]

14 minutes ago, Professor said:

Sacking the manager is the only tool in the box outside transfer windows. It must be a strong temptation to open the box. 

Not when it costs money to open the box and buy another one.

Either way, Ralph is staying and my prediction is he would only go if we were for example at least 5 or more points adrift from 17th. 

[badgerx16]

Regardless of Ralph's abilities as a manager, Howe is not a viable alternative.

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

Regardless of Ralph's abilities as a manager, Howe is not a viable alternative.

He absolutely will be in the minds of our owners and board though. Young, unemployed, fairly cheap, works with young players. Regardless of what us fans think he is exactly the sort of manager we go for.

[Daft Kerplunk]

I reckon we need to knock this one on the head fellas. We can’t afford to get rid of Ralph financially. We’d be up a very shitty creek with no paddle…and no arms. We just have to hope we can stay up, which we should, but it isn’t going to be a walk in the park. 

[badgerx16]

18 minutes ago, Daft Kerplunk said:

I reckon we need to knock this one on the head fellas. We can’t afford to get rid of Ralph financially. We’d be up a very shitty creek with no paddle…and no arms. We just have to hope we can stay up, which we should, but it isn’t going to be a walk in the park. 

Exactly.

If the Board haven't got rid of Ralph after what we saw last season, why would they conside it now ? The bar has been set extremely low, and up to now we are above it this season.

[Streaky]

31 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Exactly.

If the Board haven't got rid of Ralph after what we saw last season, why would they conside it now ? The bar has been set extremely low, and up to now we are above it this season.

Of course we can get rid of him. We just sell prowse to make up for it. How much would it cost to sack him 8 to 10 million?

 

[Daft Kerplunk]

5 minutes ago, Streaky said:

Of course we can get rid of him. We just sell prowse to make up for it. How much would it cost to sack him 8 to 10 million?

 

£6m a year contract so whatever that works out at. Losing a player to pay off a manager would be slightly mad, but also, totally a Saints thing to do

[Wade Garrett]

1 hour ago, Daft Kerplunk said:

I reckon we need to knock this one on the head fellas. We can’t afford to get rid of Ralph financially. We’d be up a very shitty creek with no paddle…and no arms. We just have to hope we can stay up, which we should, but it isn’t going to be a walk in the park. 

How does anyone know what he has in his contract regarding getting sacked?

Any manager that keeps a totally shite Walcott on the pitch for 70 minutes deserves the sack to be honest.

[danjosaint]

I'm sorry but that's on Ralph, yeah it's not him who missed an open goal or a powder puff cb but to start with Theo and even then not hook him until 75th min, when he's was injured no less, so he could've beem left on the entire time,  again he wasn't pro active, waiting after Dyche had changed it, we were in complete control at 2v1 and nothing changed, pottered on sideways backwards, even in 93rd min. Also I get Redmond had his one good game a season last week but Tella has to come on with his direct running, 2 or 3 times today especially 1 in about 80th min he drew in defenders and Tino was completely free charging into the box for a 1v1, so what does he do.... shoot into 3 defenders, him a Walcott have no forward thinking football brain and Walcott for one shouldn't even be in the squad, enjoyed game but feel Ralph's game management again cost us points, a very re occurring theme , I agree with others I feel he's taken us as far as he can and feel time has come to go although he won't as he's to in bed with Semmens and Crocker 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

Exactly.

If the Board haven't got rid of Ralph after what we saw last season, why would they conside it now ? The bar has been set extremely low, and up to now we are above it this season.

I like to think it will be different if we're struggling in the relegation zone

[Nemi]

Shock, horror - a lower PL team on a shoestring budget, has a manager who regularly makes bizarre decisions.    Hardly surprising.
 

There isn’t an answer to the problem because we have owners who don’t want to invest in good players or good coaches.

 

Get another manager, it will be another budget choice who just makes the same old errors over again.

[Saint-Michael]

3 hours ago, Daft Kerplunk said:

I reckon we need to knock this one on the head fellas. We can’t afford to get rid of Ralph financially. We’d be up a very shitty creek with no paddle…and no arms. We just have to hope we can stay up, which we should, but it isn’t going to be a walk in the park. 

Can we afford not to get rid of him?

[SFC Forever]

The question should no6t be how it will cost to sack Ralph, but how much will it cost if we don't.

Like a few on here we are hoping that there is three worse teams who finish below us.

[rooney]

Getting rid of Ralph will not stop Redmond and Walcott missing easy chances and Bendarek having brain farts. That's who they are and they will not change now.

[John B]

11 hours ago, Nemi said:

Shock, horror - a lower PL team on a shoestring budget, has a manager who regularly makes bizarre decisions.    Hardly surprising.
 

There isn’t an answer to the problem because we have owners who don’t want to invest in good players or good coaches.

 

Get another manager, it will be another budget choice who just makes the same old errors over again.

I do not really understand how bringing in another manager will stop players making individual errors which is the main cause of why we ldo not win some games but that is football

 

I have never rated Walcott but with S Armstrongnot fully  fit and JWP suspended there were hardly any stand out replacements who could have played yesterday

 

The theme on here seems to be that the players not picked are bound to be better than the ones chosen and substitutes are going to change the dynamics of the game when they come on

 

The PL is one of the strongest leagues in the world and other teams appear have some really good players so at the moment we can moan about our players but supporting them is really our only option I would have thought

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, rooney said:

Getting rid of Ralph will not stop Redmond and Walcott missing easy chances and Bendarek having brain farts. That's who they are and they will not change now.

It's a moot point.  As the OP insists, this time next week Howe will be in charge...

[Toussaint]

14 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Exactly.

If the Board haven't got rid of Ralph after what we saw last season, why would they consider it now ? The bar has been set extremely low, and up to now we are above it this season.

The answer to your question, I would say, could be found in the Semmens interview on TSP, whilst it sounded supportive of Ralph, last seasons injuries and squad depth were taken into account, he was very clear that all those issues are now fixed, which I read that as no more excuses.
 

 I think he is probably thinking the same as a lot of us here, let’s see what we get from the run against teams around us. I think Ralph was very fortunate to play a Leeds team with 50% of their first choice outfield players missing. Let’s see how we go over the next few. 

[Billy the Kidd]

6 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

The answer to your question, I would say, could be found in the Semmens interview on TSP, whilst it sounded supportive of Ralph, last seasons injuries and squad depth were taken into account, he was very clear that all those issues are now fixed, which I read that as no more excuses.
 

 I think he is probably thinking the same as a lot of us here, let’s see what we get from the run against teams around us. I think Ralph was very fortunate to play a Leeds team with 50% of their first choice outfield players missing. Let’s see how we go over the next few. 

Irrelevant to a point I guess, but had we not beaten Leeds and Burnley yesterday, I could have seen the trigger pulled.

[Mr X]

A point is just about a passable result Burnley have improved but I still think we could have held out for the 2-1 with better game management from RH, Walcott shouldn't have started to begin with but he should have been off as soon as broja scored and another attacker and defender brought on, instead he waits 70 minutes to take Walcott off and gives Armstrong & Che like barely five minutes at the end just crazy. I think after three years here he still has no idea what subs to make or when & continues to pick the wrong starters it's worrying.

[Suhari]

23 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

It's a moot point.  As the OP insists, this time next week Howe will be in charge...

Really don't want Howe.

Kudos to the OP for sharing the info he had though.

And just how dumbstruck will we all be if it turns out to be true!?

[gordonToo]

My view is that this squad is capable of doing better. I'd be happy to give EH a shot at it as Ralph I sense has hit his ceiling.

[Wade Garrett]

2 hours ago, rooney said:

Getting rid of Ralph will not stop Redmond and Walcott missing easy chances and Bendarek having brain farts. That's who they are and they will not change now.

Yet Ralph picks them.  Although I accept that he doesn’t have much choice with Bednarek.

[MAY-Z]

Just now, gordonToo said:

My view is that this squad is capable of doing better. I'd be happy to give EH a shot at it as Ralph I sense has hit his ceiling.

Yes I think Ralph’s greatest strength has been his ability to lower the expectations so much. I don’t think the squad is anywhere near as poor as many on here make out when they defend Ralph

[Billy the Kidd]

8 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Yet Ralph picks them.  Although I accept that he doesn’t have much choice with Bednarek.

He could have had a choice if he didnt choose to buy another player that isn’t better than what we have, or one that takes a season to get up to speed.

[Nemi]

2 hours ago, John B said:

I do not really understand how bringing in another manager will stop players making individual errors which is the main cause of why we ldo not win some games but that is football

 

I have never rated Walcott but with S Armstrongnot fully  fit and JWP suspended there were hardly any stand out replacements who could have played yesterday

 

The theme on here seems to be that the players not picked are bound to be better than the ones chosen and substitutes are going to change the dynamics of the game when they come on

 

The PL is one of the strongest leagues in the world and other teams appear have some really good players so at the moment we can moan about our players but supporting them is really our only option I would have thought

Totally agree tbh - I do think Hasenhuttl could be better - but acting like if he did something different everytime would somehow change a result is wishful thinking.

 

Every team’s fans from Man City down complain about team selections and substitutes - definitely not uniquely a Hasenhuttl problem.

[Billy the Kidd]

8 minutes ago, Nemi said:

Totally agree tbh - I do think Hasenhuttl could be better - but acting like if he did something different everytime would somehow change a result is wishful thinking.

 

Every team’s fans from Man City down complain about team selections and substitutes - definitely not uniquely a Hasenhuttl problem.

Yep, they do and it will always be the case. 

I bet fans of City down are also really happy about winning 6 games in 31 with a -31 GD, or 1 win in 9 games this season - definitely a Hassenhuttl problem.

[Toussaint]

16 hours ago, Turkish said:

Ralph’s final home game today, what sort of a send off did he get?

Just as well we didn’t win, watching him break down after the whistle  would have set me off too. Fortunately, for dignities sake, we both managed to compose ourselves.

[CB Fry]

21 minutes ago, MAY-Z said:

Yes I think Ralph’s greatest strength has been his ability to lower the expectations so much. I don’t think the squad is anywhere near as poor as many on here make out when they defend Ralph

Meh - it's a bottom six squad and we need a manager to try and finish at the top of that, so 15th. 

All I can see this season is whatever we do we're in trouble. Ralph is very very capable of relegating us, but also very capable of getting us to 15th.

Every other managerial choice we make from here is really in the same bracket. Howe I think is more likely to relegate us than get us to 15th. But Howe could also get a new manager bounce and get us to 15th. 

Right now I still don't think that twisting will really benefit us more than sticking. It's such a marginal choice that we might as well stick with a manager and the squad that is entirely his.

Give me three more matches and I may change my mind. This is not a ringing endorsement or defence of Ralph.

 

 

[Billy the Kidd]

8 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Meh - it's a bottom six squad and we need a manager to try and finish at the top of that, so 15th. 

All I can see this season is whatever we do we're in trouble. Ralph is very very capable of relegating us, but also very capable of getting us to 15th.

Every other managerial choice we make from here is really in the same bracket. Howe I think is more likely to relegate us than get us to 15th. But Howe could also get a new manager bounce and get us to 15th. 

Right now I still don't think that twisting will really benefit us more than sticking. It's such a marginal choice that we might as well stick with a manager and the squad that is entirely his.

Give me three more matches and I may change my mind. This is not a ringing endorsement or defence of Ralph.

 

 

Yep, this is exactly where I’m at currently. I will be fucked off, whilst not wanting rid of Ralph, if we fail to win in the next 3 league games, and he is still here.

[Wade Garrett]

I just see Ralph as a hindrance.

I can’t see us beating Watford.  That really should be the end for Ralph.

In my opinion, it feels like the board is dithering and just delaying the inevitable.

[Sheaf Saint]

Ralph doesn't always get his selections perfect, but our performances so far this season have been as good as we can realistically expect with this squad. It's individual errors that are costing us, as shown yesterday. Sacking Ralph and bringing in Howe won't make Redmond a better finisher or Bednarek a better defender.

He's got the squad he wanted after 3 years. Sacking him now and starting again from scratch would be madness. He needs to be given at least a full season with this squad before deciding on his future.

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Ralph doesn't always get his selections perfect, but our performances so far this season have been as good as we can realistically expect with this squad. It's individual errors that are costing us, as shown yesterday. Sacking Ralph and bringing in Howe won't make Redmond a better finisher or Bednarek a better defender.

He's got the squad he wanted after 3 years. Sacking him now and starting again from scratch would be madness. He needs to be given at least a full season with this squad before deciding on his future.

I think that's a very fair, considered and non-knee jerk post.

I'll be concerned when our approach doesn't create chances, but in our last two games we should have scored a min of 3 goals in each game with the opportunities we had.

So the approach worked in that sense, we're getting into the right positions but the players the opportunities are falling to are just low down in the quality stakes (or inexperienced), so individually they all need multiple chances to score.

In the grand scheme of things, after the start and the teams we've faced, to still have a pretty neutral GD and 8 points isn't cause for flattening the place and starting again.

[Lord Duckhunter]

16 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

 

He's got the squad he wanted after 3 years. Sacking him now and starting again from scratch would be madness. He needs to be given at least a full season with this squad before deciding on his future.

He should have gone as soon as last season ended, giving a new manager a preseason and a little bit of money to get a couple in.
 

We’ve put all our eggs in the Ralph basket now and unless there’s an outstanding candidate available and willing to join us, or we go on another losing streak like we did last year, it makes little sense in moving him on. Performances have ensured we’re not really in the position we were with Peligrino (get him out or we’re defo going down), but we’re in a pretty precarious position. We’ve got a pretty poor squad, managed by a pretty poor manager,

Edited 24 October, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[richard799]

I think Ralph has made some big mistakes selecting Alex McCarthy is shocking, his awful performances don't support his selection.

Our big problems are saints lost Ings top goal scorer and have replaced with Armstrong and Adams simply not good enough. Broja is good, but only loan and could've recalled in January if Chelsea decide they need him back. 

I'm not sure changing manager is the answer, getting rid of Redmond, Adams, Stephens, McCarthy to me, making these few changes has to be a start.

Everyone has to remember Bournemouth paid good money in the year they got relegated, Solanke flopped, they suffered injuries too, and I'm sure he fell out with their players too such as Begovic who was better keeper than Boruc, who was past it.

The rot at saints goes deeper than some of Ralph's odd selections or late substitutions.

New owners, new investment is key. Without it, I think most managers will struggle. Let's be honest a club that increases tickets in Kingsland premium and loses most of the fans to either not go or move seat is no way to repay fan loyalty.

[Mr X]

58 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

He should have gone as soon as last season ended, giving a new manager a preseason and a little bit of money to get a couple in.
 

We’ve put all our eggs in the Ralph basket now and unless there’s an outstanding candidate available and willing to join us, or we go on another losing streak like we did last year, it makes little sense in moving him on. Performances have ensured we’re not really in the position we were with Peligrino (get him out or we’re defo going down), but we’re in a pretty precarious position. We’ve got a pretty poor squad, managed by a pretty poor manager,

This is probably true bar a couple of players i.e tino, salisu, KWP, the thing that's worrying is he has had three years and still can't manage the basics of in game management, starting the strongest team & making substitutions and team shape at the right time, these are absolute basics really, yet he selects a totally out of form Walcott that's been shit for months & waits till final ten mins for subs it's just school boy level crazy 

Edited 24 October, 2021 by Mr X

[S-Clarke]

39 minutes ago, richard799 said:

I think Ralph has made some big mistakes selecting Alex McCarthy is shocking, his awful performances don't support his selection.

Our big problems are saints lost Ings top goal scorer and have replaced with Armstrong and Adams simply not good enough. Broja is good, but only loan and could've recalled in January if Chelsea decide they need him back. 

I'm not sure changing manager is the answer, getting rid of Redmond, Adams, Stephens, McCarthy to me, making these few changes has to be a start.

Everyone has to remember Bournemouth paid good money in the year they got relegated, Solanke flopped, they suffered injuries too, and I'm sure he fell out with their players too such as Begovic who was better keeper than Boruc, who was past it.

The rot at saints goes deeper than some of Ralph's odd selections or late substitutions.

New owners, new investment is key. Without it, I think most managers will struggle. Let's be honest a club that increases tickets in Kingsland premium and loses most of the fans to either not go or move seat is no way to repay fan loyalty.

I agree with a lot of what you say. The problems are deeper than just the tactics the manager selects, there are a lot of other reasons as to why we sit here today and every season over the last 5, let's be honest.

I don't agree that McCarthy is a big mistake though, what awful performance has he put in this season that justifies him being dropped?

I think everyone agrees that we need a new goalie as a long-term investment, but in the here and now McCarthy is the least of our worries in my opinion.

Our problems this season will primarily come down to a lack of goals, that's all. Ings kept our heads above water, without him we will be paddling to death to stay above it until May I imagine. We needed someone like Daka to come in and replace Ings, we couldn't really afford to go with a gamble from the Championship....but sadly our position means that's all we can really do.

[cloggy saint]

Think of all the managers we'e had in the 45 years I've been supporting Saints. Not one of them has turned us into a consistent top half team.  Scrapping against relegation/lower mid-table is our level, always has been and probably always will be. For that reason I'm happy enough for Ralph to continue, we've had plenty worse.

[Matthew Le God]

25 minutes ago, cloggy saint said:

Think of all the managers we've had in the 45 years I've been supporting Saints. Not one of them has turned us into a consistent top half team.  Scrapping against relegation/lower mid-table is our level, always has been and probably always will be. 

That is not true! 😇

Lawrie McMenemy between 1979 and 1985 had Saints finish... 8th, 6th, 7th, 12th, 2nd, 5th in a 22 team league.

So over 6 years from 1979 to 1985 Saints were in the top half 5 times and the only time they weren't, they finished outside the top half on goal difference only.

Pochettino, Koeman & Puel also had Saints finished 8th, 7th, 6th & 8th in the Premier League from 2013 to 2017.

Edited 24 October, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[Noodles34]

21 minutes ago, cloggy saint said:

Think of all the managers we'e had in the 45 years I've been supporting Saints. Not one of them has turned us into a consistent top half team.  Scrapping against relegation/lower mid-table is our level, always has been and probably always will be. For that reason I'm happy enough for Ralph to continue, we've had plenty worse.

Pochettino and then Koeman 

[Matthew Le God]

1 minute ago, Noodles34 said:

Pochettino and then Koeman 

And Puel 😉

...........................................

2013/14 Pochettino 8th

2014/15 Koeman 7th

2015/16 Koeman 6th

2016/17 Puel 8th

[Lord Duckhunter]

31 minutes ago, cloggy saint said:

Think of all the managers we'e had in the 45 years I've been supporting Saints. Not one of them has turned us into a consistent top half team.  Scrapping against relegation/lower mid-table is our level, always has been and probably always will be. For that reason I'm happy enough for Ralph to continue, we've had plenty worse.

 

[Billy the Kidd]

5 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

 

That looks like a statue they should stick out the front of the stadium with Ted. 

[Topcat]

We need to be realistic about our chances of relegation.  The best news is that one team, Norwich, look certain to be relegated.  So are there 2 or more teams that will finish below us?

Today there are 3 other teams below our 8 points.   Leeds 7,  Burnley 4 and Newcastle 4.

  The bookies have all of these on shorter odds than us to be relegated.  So anyone really pessimistic should consider the 5/1 available on Saints!

That said, looking at these 3, the common expectation is that Newcastle will have many millions to strengthen in the transfer window and therefore we should expect Newcastle to spend their way out of relegation.

Leeds have recently been missing 5 starters and key amongst them is Kalvin Phillips.  He was on the bench yesterday and if he does play consistently he can be expected to pull Leeds up the table as his win ratio as a starter is high at almost 50% in the Prem.

Burnley however could suffer from player departures to teams such as Newcastle and could therefore be weaker after the transfer window.   So we have 2 teams probably below us Burnley and Norwich and we will need to see teams currently above us drop below us.  Any one of Palace, Watford and Villa?

Edited 24 October, 2021 by Topcat

[Topcat]

To add to my comment above about Burnley, they look very vulnerable to key losses of players.  They have eight players out of contract in the summer, including Ben Mee and James Tarkowski.  Tarkowski is linked to Newcastle and looks an ideal fit for Newcastle.

[DT]

48 minutes ago, Topcat said:

We need to be realistic about our chances of relegation.  The best news is that one team, Norwich, look certain to be relegated.  So are there 2 or more teams that will finish below us?

Today there are 3 other teams below our 8 points.   Leeds 7,  Burnley 4 and Newcastle 4.

  The bookies have all of these on shorter odds than us to be relegated.  So anyone really pessimistic should consider the 5/1 available on Saints!

That said, looking at these 3, the common expectation is that Newcastle will have many millions to strengthen in the transfer window and therefore we should expect Newcastle to spend their way out of relegation.

Leeds have recently been missing 5 starters and key amongst them is Kalvin Phillips.  He was on the bench yesterday and if he does play consistently he can be expected to pull Leeds up the table as his win ratio as a starter is high at almost 50% in the Prem.

Burnley however could suffer from player departures to teams such as Newcastle and could therefore be weaker after the transfer window.   So we have 2 teams probably below us Burnley and Norwich and we will need to see teams currently above us drop below us.  Any one of Palace, Watford and Villa?

can't see any of those three, although perhaps we can best hope that Watford just had a good day yesterday. Personally think we need Ralph gone and sell JWP to reinvest the money in the squad with a decent keeper and CB (and midfielder..)

[Baird of the land]

1 hour ago, Topcat said:

We need to be realistic about our chances of relegation.  The best news is that one team, Norwich, look certain to be relegated.  So are there 2 or more teams that will finish below us?

Today there are 3 other teams below our 8 points.   Leeds 7,  Burnley 4 and Newcastle 4.

  The bookies have all of these on shorter odds than us to be relegated.  So anyone really pessimistic should consider the 5/1 available on Saints!

That said, looking at these 3, the common expectation is that Newcastle will have many millions to strengthen in the transfer window and therefore we should expect Newcastle to spend their way out of relegation.

Leeds have recently been missing 5 starters and key amongst them is Kalvin Phillips.  He was on the bench yesterday and if he does play consistently he can be expected to pull Leeds up the table as his win ratio as a starter is high at almost 50% in the Prem.

Burnley however could suffer from player departures to teams such as Newcastle and could therefore be weaker after the transfer window.   So we have 2 teams probably below us Burnley and Norwich and we will need to see teams currently above us drop below us.  Any one of Palace, Watford and Villa?

Think there’s a whole heap of mid table teams that could get dragged into it imo. Also Newcastle could still very well go down despite their billions. Saints have played 5 of the current top 8, so if anything we’ve had a tougher run than some others.

[Chapel End]

34 minutes ago, DT said:

can't see any of those three, although perhaps we can best hope that Watford just had a good day yesterday. Personally think we need Ralph gone and sell JWP to reinvest the money in the squad with a decent keeper and CB (and midfielder..)

You say it every year, one day you will be right i expect 

[Dorchester Saint]

This thread epitomises ‘Spazweb’ in all its glory. Some of you are mental!! 
Ralph isn’t going anywhere and if you think Eddie Howe would get any more out of this squad, you’re insane. 

[CB Fry]

47 minutes ago, Dorchester Saint said:

This thread epitomises ‘Spazweb’ in all its glory. Some of you are mental!! 
Ralph isn’t going anywhere and if you think Eddie Howe would get any more out of this squad, you’re insane. 

You've not actually read this thread then.

[Bstokesaint]

So you sack Ralph, who would want to come in to a team who are likely to be relegated this season? I was banking on Norwich, Watford and Newcastle/Brentford finishing below us this season. Whoever the manager is just look at the squad and you cant ignore that 17th is a successful season. Theres a couple of good players in there but the rest is bang average and we've lost our 15-20 goal a season striker. Now that Newcastle have loads to spend and assuming they have a good January we really are in trouble. The squad are still playing for Ralph despite such a bad run over the past year and our results are about right for the squad, like it or not everyone in the league sees us as 3 points.