Summer 2022 Transfer Window

[The Cat]

3 hours ago, Turkish said:

Wunderkids: Building football’s most exciting young XI - week nine: Jamal Musiala, midfielder - BBC Sport

didn't know this lad was with us once. Chelsea nicked him too.

Pretty sure he is the kid whose family moved to Southampton for work when he was maybe 7 or something. He played for Queens Keep in mini soccer and basically spent a month or so running around all the players on every team, scoring about 8 goals a game before Saints picked him up. 

Not long after Chelsea came sniffing around and he went there.

The young ages at academy level does seem particularly cut throat and ruthless. Other clubs spend a lot of time sniffing around players, offering their parents silly deals and promises. 

[Turkish]

Just now, The Cat said:

Pretty sure he is the kid whose family moved to Southampton for work when he was maybe 7 or something. He played for Queens Keep in mini soccer and basically spent a month or so running around all the players on every team, scoring about 8 goals a game before Saints picked him up. 

Not long after Chelsea came sniffing around and he went there.

The young ages at academy level does seem particularly cut throat and ruthless. Other clubs spend a lot of time sniffing around players, offering their parents silly deals and promises. 

Seems like it, his wiki page says he was born in Stutgart and moved to England at that age. Although it also says he went to school in New Malden and Croydon.

[The Cat]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Seems like it, his wiki page says he was born in Stutgart and moved to England at that age. Although it also says he went to school in New Malden and Croydon.

Here we are, was City Central not Queens Keep. I knew it was a team who played in yellow but got the wrong one.

https://www.bavarianfootballworks.com/2021/8/10/22617040/bayern-munich-england-southampton-jamal-musiala-premier-league-chelsea-dragos-cavasdan-bundesliga

 

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Here we are, was City Central not Queens Keep. I knew it was a team who played in yellow but got the wrong one.

https://www.bavarianfootballworks.com/2021/8/10/22617040/bayern-munich-england-southampton-jamal-musiala-premier-league-chelsea-dragos-cavasdan-bundesliga

 

Not very complementry about Southampton 

Southampton, as a city, was hit hard by the Corona, and there are major problems with poverty, drugs, prostitution, and high unemployment

[The Cat]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Not very complementry about Southampton 

Southampton, as a city, was hit hard by the Corona, and there are major problems with poverty, drugs, prostitution, and high unemployment and people on the Saintsweb forum arguing over XG

Not sure why you omitted the last line from your quote? I added it back in.

Edited 13 April, 2022 by The Cat

[Convict Colony]

I concur we havent had a realiable goalkeeper since niemi, artur was quality but it must be the polish gene that has monumental fuck ups in them like bednerak.

I dont know anything about goalkeeping but are there any goalkeepers who can:

A) communicate with players

B) can kick a football in the direction that they choose, short or long.

C) Doesnt own chocolate wrists

[Holmes_and_Watson]

6 hours ago, The Cat said:

Not sure why you omitted the last line from your quote? I added it back in.

I'd rather not be reminded of the dark days, when spreadsheet prints lined the streets after the xG/Pony wars. 😒

[Ex Lion Tamer]

12 hours ago, Pilchards said:

Been such a long time since we had a keeper that makes you stare in disbelief as they tip another one around the post.

Neimi is the only keeper I’ve loved playing for Saints. The rest have been average IMHO.

OK he's more of a cult hero but don't tell me you didn't love Kelvin by the end

 

[FarehamSaintJames]

I’d take a couple of the Atletico players after tonight, purely for a bit of fire 😂

[danjosaint]

Yeah savic, vrsalko and correa should do the trick

[skintsaint]

1 hour ago, danjosaint said:

Yeah savic, vrsalko and correa should do the trick

We don't want Simeone though, too negative as a manager 🤪

[Dark Munster]

15 hours ago, The Cat said:

Pretty sure he is the kid whose family moved to Southampton for work when he was maybe 7 or something. He played for Queens Keep in mini soccer and basically spent a month or so running around all the players on every team, scoring about 8 goals a game before Saints picked him up. 

Not long after Chelsea came sniffing around and he went there.

The young ages at academy level does seem particularly cut throat and ruthless. Other clubs spend a lot of time sniffing around players, offering their parents silly deals and promises. 

He chose to play for Germany over England. Unlike Haaland (Norway over England) I think he made a good choice.

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, Dark Munster said:

 Unlike Haaland (Norway over England) I think he made a good choice.

Why do you keep going on about this?

Haaland is not English, he doesn't want to play for England, he wants to play for his own country.

The idea that there was ever even "a choice" for this kid to make is utterly ridiculous.

[Saint86]

 

11 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

OK he's more of a cult hero but don't tell me you didn't love Kelvin by the end

 

Stuck with us in the darkest days, and saved our promotion push that night. On the banner surely?

Edited 14 April, 2022 by Saint86

[for_heaven's_Saint]

Davis deserves his cult status and recognition for his loyalty, no doubt. He was a bit of a liability in goal a lot of the time though. Every shot near the bottom corners looked like it would go in. 

[Barsiem]

5 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Why do you keep going on about this?

Haaland is not English, he doesn't want to play for England, he wants to play for his own country.

The idea that there was ever even "a choice" for this kid to make is utterly ridiculous.

Technically he is English (born in Leeds).  He could have chosen to represent England, but as he’s said he never really considered it.  Fair play to him for that, even if it’s a shitter for us.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

I'd be interested to hear from older posters about who was better between Niemi and Flowers

[Pilchards]

13 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I'd be interested to hear from older posters about who was better between Niemi and Flowers

Saw them both and I would say Flowers was solid but not spectacular. 

[Saint86]

On 13/04/2022 at 09:29, Pilchards said:

Been such a long time since we had a keeper that makes you stare in disbelief as they tip another one around the post.

Neimi is the only keeper I’ve loved playing for Saints. The rest have been average IMHO.

There were times with Forster under Koeman when he was superb. Didn't we set (or get near) a new record for clean sheets or something? Then he had that knee injury (dislocated patella?) and he never quite got back there.

[Pwoite]

15 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I'd be interested to hear from older posters about who was better between Niemi and Flowers

Or Shilton?

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, Saint86 said:

 

Stuck with us in the darkest days, and saved our promotion push that night. On the banner surely?

His wife didn't want to leave the area. I believe he had an offer from West Ham.

[Sarisbury Saint]

48 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I'd be interested to hear from older posters about who was better between Niemi and Flowers

Noemi for me.

[The Cat]

Yeah, Niemi was better. I really can't think of a weakness in his game and he pulled off some absolutely world class saves. 

Flowers didn't make many mistakes and was a solid all round keeper.

[SO5 4BW]

Niemi better than Flowers - guess Flowers was at an earlier stage of his career

But Shilton miles better than either 

[HarvSFC]

I feel Davis isn't as appreciated, as he had a questionable start to his Saints career, then was part of the worst Saints team of recent history, possibly ever, then was part of a Saints team that dominated for three seasons, so he wasn't as busy, then he wasn't good enough for the Premier League, although he did save a Van Persie penalty. And of course now it looks from the outside that he's in a position that he isn't wholly qualified for. However, for one of those seasons here, he won our player of the year and then for three consecutive seasons after that, he was named the goalkeeper of the division, despite us not winning the league in any of them.

He of course stayed with us when it looked nailed on that he was going to West Ham. Very hard to find a good goalkeeper at League One level if he did need replacing and he was a key member of the team that won consecutive promotions. Bialkowski, who has built a solid if unspectacular career in the Championship showed in the Blackpool fiasco what may have happened had Davis spent a prolonged period of time out of the team and of course, we all remember his possessed performance at Leeds that season which won us a vital three points.

 Of course, he isn't in the conversation alongside Niemi, Boruc, Forster or even McCarthy. But, he was a top player for what we needed at that time.

[Turkish]

7 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Yeah, Niemi was better. I really can't think of a weakness in his game and he pulled off some absolutely world class saves. 

Flowers didn't make many mistakes and was a solid all round keeper.

(2241) Saints vs Arsenal 02/03 - YouTube

2 mins in. What a keeper.

[OttawaSaint]

34 minutes ago, Turkish said:

(2241) Saints vs Arsenal 02/03 - YouTube

2 mins in. What a keeper.

Love that sequence of saves, incredible.

That clip also has a couple of Beattie specials, great hit for the free kick and a clinical penalty.

There's also a tin man collector item!

[spyinthesky]

As a long standing supporter, I would rate Shilton above Niemi but that is not to denigrate Niemi who was an excellent keeper.

Flowers was solid but not in the same class as Shilts and Antii.

Strange thing is that Saints have never produced a top class 'keeper through the youth set up.

The only ones of note that I can remember coming through the ranks were Bob Charles and Alan Blaney but neither of them progressed.

Gerry Gurr could possibly be added to that but not sure if he came through the ranks.

[The Kraken]

41 minutes ago, spyinthesky said:

Strange thing is that Saints have never produced a top class 'keeper through the youth set up.

The only ones of note that I can remember coming through the ranks were Bob Charles and Alan Blaney but neither of them progressed.

Goalkeepers and centre backs, never really produced one through the youth team / academy. Full backs, we’re decent at that. Centre mids, not bad. Wingers / wide midfielders and strikers, yep, decent there too.

The most promising CB I can remember us bringing through was Mike Williamson, but even that is tenuous as he was signed after playing league games for Torquay. Likewise, Jack Stephens technically was an academy graduate, but we also signed him after he’d played league football elsewhere. 

Keepers, we had Darryl Flahavan who got released then played in lower leagues.  Also similar for his brother Aaron (RIP) who played for Pompey.

Edited 14 April, 2022 by The Kraken

[VectisSaint]

Think Eric Martin was the best 😀

[The Cat]

32 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Keepers, we had Darryl Flahavan who got released then played in lower leagues.  Also similar for his brother Aaron (RIP) who played for Pompey.

Scott Bevan was half decent and an absolutely lovely bloke. Him and Daryl (much more moody) used to train my son.

Goes without saying that it's much harder to get keepers through an academy and progress them into the first team.

For a start there's only 1 GK position in a team. Secondly keepers mature at a much later age than most other positions. Partly this is due to mentality and maturity. How many keepers make their debuts at 18 or 19 in the premier league and then keep the jersey? 

Thirdly it's reasonably rare for teams to rotate keepers to a great extent, you can't use substitutions to give them first team experience. It's so much easier with an outfield player to put them in the matchday squad and give them 5 minutes here, 10 minutes there and a League Cup game but that's not really going to happen with a young keeper.

Most, if not all the best keepers start off playing lower league at a young age and get signed after a season or 2 or 3 of good performances. There's the odd exception like Donnarumma who was playing regularly for AC Milan at 16/17 but that's quite freakish.

Look at the top English keepers.

Pickford, Sunderland academy, then a string of lower league loans before making his Sunderland debut aged 21.

Pope, Ipswich academy, left for Bury, then Charlton, loads of lower and non-league loans, then bought by Burnley aged 24.

Henderson, joined Man Utd from Carlisle academy. A few lower league loans before 2 seasons at Sheff Utd where he really showed his quality. Now back at Man Utd and can't get a game. He's now 25.

Johnstone, another Man Utd academy graduate. Loads of loans in the lower league before 2 seasons on loan at Villa and then sold to West Brom.

That's obviously just looking at English keepers, it seems other countries may trust them more at a younger age, or maybe it's just Atletico Madrid. De Gea and Courtois (after Chelsea bought him and loaned him straight out) were both in their first team at the same age Pickford was on loan at Bradford.

I'd love it if we produced another decent keeper, and one who made their way into the first team but it's so rare that I'm not sure it's anything anyone should feel negative to the club about.

[The Kraken]

Good summary.

I don’t think anyone is presenting it as a negative. Just pointing out out that GK and CB positions have proved harder to bring someone through. GK likely for many of the reasons you mention.

[skintsaint]

3 hours ago, Turkish said:

(2241) Saints vs Arsenal 02/03 - YouTube

2 mins in. What a keeper.

Can't believe he never played for Scotland.

[Turkish]

Just now, skintsaint said:

Can't believe he never played for Scotland.

cause he's finished.

[Matthew Le God]

No he isn't,  he's only 28

[Roo1976]

On 13/04/2022 at 10:06, SuperSAINT said:

Indeed.  They have some incredible talent in their academy but that’s the result of (as you’ve pointed out) basically being like a whale eating krill in how they hoover up talent.

Plus at the time the wealth of the club is also a major factor to consider.

[benjii]

I started watching Saints in 89/90 so it's hard for me to imagine how good Shilton was if he was miles better than Niemi as I saw Niemi and thought he was unbelievable, but didn't see Shilton.

My abiding memory of Shilton is Italia 90, when he was pure junk, and of course everyone has seen him getting out-jumped by a 5ft 2 midget in '86.

So, my question is, did he go downhill rapidly from the mid 80s? If so, why was he still in goal for England in 1990?!

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, benjii said:

I started watching Saints in 89/90 so it's hard for me to imagine how good Shilton was if he was miles better than Niemi as I saw Niemi and thought he was unbelievable, but didn't see Shilton.

My abiding memory of Shilton is Italia 90, when he was pure junk, and of course everyone has seen him getting out-jumped by a 5ft 2 midget in '86.

So, my question is, did he go downhill rapidly from the mid 80s? If so, why was he still in goal for England in 1990?!

The alternatives were Dave Beasant or Chris Woods! FAct of the day, all three of Englands 1990 World cup keepers played for Saints in their careers. Shilton was 40 by then and really should have been replaced but wasnt really a viable option. 

Shilton was Saints keeper when i started watching Saints and i remember him being brilliant but then i was only a kid, gutted when he left to go to Derby, big thing at the time about who was better him or Neville Southall.  However he was past his best by then, guess his peak would have been late 70s, early 80s with Forest. 

Flowers was very popular but kept out of the team for a while by John Burridge who i remember being a pretty crap keeper but popular due to his gymnastic warm up on the pitch before games. 

[Badger]

4 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I'd be interested to hear from older posters about who was better between Niemi and Flowers

Niemi.

I liked Tim Flowers but don't think he really hit the heights we thought he might after leaving. Good GK, miles better than what we have now, but not in Niemi's league.

I'd go as far as saying Niemi is the best GK I've seen based purely on his time with us - and I might be in a minority here, possibly a minority of one - but for their time with Saints I'd prefer him to Shilton.

Fully accept Shilton was one of the greats, but I think memories of his time with us are  enhanced by his reputation, and especially his years at Forest. I saw many Niemi stops which were spectacular and you came away wondering how he kept something out, not sure I'd say the same  of Shilton. 

Shilton was far better at pointing and shouting at his defenders after conceding though, and on more than one occasion the thought of 'ialll very well pointing at the FB/CB whoever, if  you'd  been a bit quicker off your line then...' 

[Badger]

3 hours ago, spyinthesky said:

Gerry Gurr could possibly be added to that but not sure if he came through the ranks.

Did come through the ranks and was highly thought of - possibly England U23 - but finished by injury I think.

1 hour ago, VectisSaint said:

Think Eric Martin was the best 😀

Agreed, if your criteria is:

1)studs up- face height -challenges on oncoming forwards

2)pre-match entertainment of throwing the balls into a sack. 

No one else comes close.

[ErwinK1961]

4 hours ago, The Cat said:

Yeah, Niemi was better. I really can't think of a weakness in his game and he pulled off some absolutely world class saves. 

Flowers didn't make many mistakes and was a solid all round keeper.

I’d say Niemi’s only weakness was crosses, never really came for any. However, when you are as good a shot stopper as he was, he didn’t really need to. Plus Killer and Claus knew that so headed everything anyway

Edited 14 April, 2022 by ErwinK1961

[kwsaint]

Flowers got 11 England caps and was a reliable keeper.  I seem to remember that he suffered from early onset arthritis.  Form dipped in his early thirties as a result and he retired early for a keeper.  At an age when keepers are reaching their peak.  Still had an excellent career.

Niemi was just a class act.  Tough to call between Niemi and Shilton based on Saints form.

 

[WestMidSaint]

Watching Niemi was incredible. He was sooo good and inspired such confidence. I vaguely remember a particular highlight being a match against Arsenal when they were in their pomp. 
 

The other great thing about AN is the old call to TalkSport when the Scottish caller says it’s an outrage he’s not playing for Scotland. “Finish? He’s not finished”!! 😂😂😂😂

[EBS1980]

Any chance of this getting back on topic?! 

[FarehamSaintJames]

Yes, please, back on topic.

Just for once it would be amazing to get all our business done in the opening three to four weeks.

A full pre-season. Bednarek and Djenepo sold for whatever we can blag. Walcott to leave too. McCarthy to not be anywhere near the first team, not even to clean players boots as he’ll probably drop them.

A new solid CB that’ll be here for the next four/five years.

A new GK, not Johnstone who in the Prem was a diamond in a turd but this season has proved he is no better than anything we already have.

A new winger that can actually run at defenders and grafts.

I’d also like a central attacking midfielder. Ralph needs to adapt from time to time and that extra body in midfield for us could make a difference.

[TWar]

5 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Yes, please, back on topic.

Just for once it would be amazing to get all our business done in the opening three to four weeks.

A full pre-season. Bednarek and Djenepo sold for whatever we can blag. Walcott to leave too. McCarthy to not be anywhere near the first team, not even to clean players boots as he’ll probably drop them.

A new solid CB that’ll be here for the next four/five years.

A new GK, not Johnstone who in the Prem was a diamond in a turd but this season has proved he is no better than anything we already have.

A new winger that can actually run at defenders and grafts.

I’d also like a central attacking midfielder. Ralph needs to adapt from time to time and that extra body in midfield for us could make a difference.

Agree with most of this, not sure we need a winger as I we very rarely play with wingers, we normally either do a 4222 with two attacking mids or a 3 at the back with wingbacks.

Would like the important signings done early, wouldn't mind a little money held back till near the end to see if we can get a bargain after other deals have fallen through.

For me priorities are 

1) CB (weakest position by a mile imo)

2) attacking mid (we don't create enough and when Moi and/or Stu is off form we struggle

3) GK (would have been number 1 at the start of the season but Forster has impressed, I'd take Johnstone on a free as he was decent in the prem and its lowish risk, he has had a poor season though so won't lose any sleep if we miss out on him)

4) Striker (our league top scorer is Che on 7 which isn't good enough, don't blame Che as his game is much more provider and hold up but we need someone who can put the ball in the net more if we want top half/europe more consistently. It's only 4th priority as JWP pitches in a lot otherwise we'd have a big goal problem)

5) CM (Romeu needs a successor and it isn't Diallo, who while handy doesn't play the same role all that well)

6) 2nd AM (only if we clear out Redmond and Djenepo and maybe send Smallbone on loan, cheap punt on a young player, maybe an academy of a big team.)

 

[SuperSAINT]

Brennan Johnson could probably be moulded to suit a “Ralph Wide 10”.

Looks a hell of a talent.

[HarvSFC]

23 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

Brennan Johnson could probably be moulded to suit a “Ralph Wide 10”.

Looks a hell of a talent.

Yep, although still raw definitely one for the future. Think he will need a season of bedding in up here, rather than being an instant star. Reminds me of Jay Rodriguez when he first joined. 

At the moment Stuart Armstrong and Broja are our only ball carriers and there's no guarantee that Broja will be here next season, he probably isn't going to be. Johnson provides that and incredible pace, which again I feel we've been lacking since Mane. Would certainly fill a few gaps in our team. Now, we just need Forest to stay down, poach their attacker... and their manager?

[TWar]

22 minutes ago, HarvSFC said:

Yep, although still raw definitely one for the future. Think he will need a season of bedding in up here, rather than being an instant star. Reminds me of Jay Rodriguez when he first joined. 

At the moment Stuart Armstrong and Broja are our only ball carriers and there's no guarantee that Broja will be here next season, he probably isn't going to be. Johnson provides that and incredible pace, which again I feel we've been lacking since Mane. Would certainly fill a few gaps in our team. Now, we just need Forest to stay down, poach their attacker... and their manager?

Kwp and Livramento are both amongst the top in the league for ball carrying too.

[FarehamSaintJames]

Probably not the best time, but I still wouldn’t have Jan Bednarek as my CB next season 😅