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January 2023 Transfer Window

mcbendy

By mcbendy,
in The Saints

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Toussaint

Toussaint

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

We have to play three central defenders so that we can accommodate Lyanco. Otherwise he might have to be left out of the starting lineup;)

I keep saying it, based on nothing other than a hunch, that the 3 CBs is  a Rasmus diktat. 
 

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Saint Garrett

Saint Garrett

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Toussaint said:

I keep saying it, based on nothing other than a hunch, that the 3 CBs is  a Rasmus diktat. 
 

I just don’t really understand the benefit to the owners/board of forcing a formation on a team. Especially when you’ve got a shit tonne of money involved.

Wasn’t “The Southampton Way” developed around forward thinking, attacking free flowing football. Namely 4222 or 4333 or similar. 

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alehouseboys

alehouseboys

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Saint Garrett said:

I just don’t really understand the benefit to the owners/board of forcing a formation on a team. Especially when you’ve got a shit tonne of money involved.

Wasn’t “The Southampton Way” developed around forward thinking, attacking free flowing football. Namely 4222 or 4333 or similar. 

We could certainly do with a few more out there

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Toussaint

Toussaint

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Saint Garrett said:

I just don’t really understand the benefit to the owners/board of forcing a formation on a team. Especially when you’ve got a shit tonne of money involved.

Wasn’t “The Southampton Way” developed around forward thinking, attacking free flowing football. Namely 4222 or 4333 or similar. 

Im not saying I'm right, I just  get the impression Ankerson is pulling the strings, add to that we started the season with a five, which Ralph soon abandoned, only to have Jones come in and rigidly stick to a failed system. 

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Convict Colony

Convict Colony

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

I just don’t really understand the benefit to the owners/board of forcing a formation on a team. Especially when you’ve got a shit tonne of money involved.

Wasn’t “The Southampton Way” developed around forward thinking, attacking free flowing football. Namely 4222 or 4333 or similar. 

 

first time meme.jpeg

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Dan Johnson

Dan Johnson

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

Nowhere near good enough for Everton who are maybe the only team in the league as bad as we are.

At least he'll be good for Nathan Jones horrific long ball tactics from his days at Burnley eh?

Would take him 100%

Similar to the Dan Burn transfer to Newcastle last January, everyone turning their noses up “Brighton Reserve” but he’s been an inspiration signing for them.

Proven premiership players are exactly what we need right now. 

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Convict Colony

Convict Colony

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

I keep saying it, based on nothing other than a hunch, that the 3 CBs is  a Rasmus diktat. 
 

This is interesting and may have a grain of truth.

I've just checked and in the championship they played 4 at the back and then 1st year in EPL then went 3 at the back (26 times - maybe this is just indicative of them wanting to be hard to beat in their 1st season) but now Rasmus has left they play 4 at the back.

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verlaine1979

verlaine1979

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

I keep saying it, based on nothing other than a hunch, that the 3 CBs is  a Rasmus diktat. 
 

Could be, but I'd be astonished if this was a data-driven decision. Are there enough top-level clubs playing 5 at the back to give you confidence in any statistics about the success of that formation vs. a more traditional back four? With all the other noise inherent in a non-structured sport like football, it seems unlikely. Maybe just based on the fact that they think we have a higher degree of quality in our CB recruitment than in any other area of the pitch?

That said, since it sounds like we went for Jones based on his points/budget ratio (a completely inappropriate metric for comparing performance between levels of the game where financial power is highly stratified) maybe this lot really don't know what they're doing. After all, the person who did all the actual analysis in Moneyball was a Harvard-educated economist.

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Killers Knee

Killers Knee

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

I keep saying it, based on nothing other than a hunch, that the 3 CBs is  a Rasmus diktat. 
 

Wouldn’t be surprised if at Brentford they figured out for a period of time, teams that do 5 at the back well, shipped less goals.  I would hazard to guess that Brentford’s Data Science team is up there with the the best in Europe, where SFC’s is  not even the best in Marchwood.

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Fabrice29

Fabrice29

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

None of our centre backs want to play in a back 3/5 apart from Lyanco and he’s not good enough. That’s pretty much it. 

ABK and Salisu were fine in a 2 at the start of the season, and DCC was comfortable there. Now Lavia is back to screen the defence, we should 100% be playing a back 4 with Lavia and JWP in front, it’s really not that difficult. 

This is complete tosh.

A) We've kept 1 clean sheet all season and it wasn't when ABK and Salisu were playing together so no, they were not fine. Good individually yes, will improve yes, our best two maybe, but fine as a two? Obviously wasn't fine.

B) DCC has looked far from comfortable, apart from on the bench. Maybe it's because he's not been trusted enough but he's far too tentative and slow on the ball, he's clearly slow off the ball as well (in fairness, he also clearly knows that and hides it well) and not paticulary dominant in the air either. There was a few games when he started and he looked okay (above) and maybe in a slightly less high pressing side he would be more comfortable, but two managers now haven't fancied him, 3 if you include Croatia's who dumped him as soon as a young emerging talent came through.

C) Lavia was way off the pace yesterday. You'll come back with something about the tactics by passing the midfield but he was second to almost everything yesterday and sloppy on the ball. I don't think asking him to protect a fragile back four is particularly wise for anyone just yet. 

D) Two managers now have referenced the height in our team being an issue. We're weak at set pieces anyway, so playing only 2 CB's doesn't make much sense. 3 at the back is absolutely fine if you have the quality in midfield to be dynamic, quick and inventive. We don't and that continues to be our biggest issue. Ralph may have hid it better by being a reactive side but we need to give this manager his players to do it his way. The system isn't the issue, systems don't win or lose you games, the quality (or lack of) in your side does.

On a side note, you need to take some time off this board pal. You've gone from being a poster people enjoyed reading from, interested in your behind the scenes knowledge, to being unable to scroll through 5 posts on any thread without seeing you moaning and being well over the top. When the fun stops, stop.

 

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saintsdan

saintsdan

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

This is interesting and may have a grain of truth.

I've just checked and in the championship they played 4 at the back and then 1st year in EPL then went 3 at the back (26 times - maybe this is just indicative of them wanting to be hard to beat in their 1st season) but now Rasmus has left they play 4 at the back.

If you're referring to Brentford, they played three at the back on Monday.  They were also very direct...

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Saint Fan CaM

Saint Fan CaM

Posted
Posted (edited)

There’s some Facebook posts saying Orsic is a done deal and he’s about to undergo a medical. Anyone here seen news on this?

EDIT: just seen new post on the signing. Looks positive news providing Jones knows how to utilise him and he actually gets to see the ball after it’s been hoofed again.

Edited by Saint Fan CaM
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woodsaint1

woodsaint1

Posted
Posted

Could understand us employing 3 CBs if they were lacking in pace and we were needing a lower lying one to cover the runs in behind. But ABK and Salisu are fairly rapid, and DCC doesnt look like a slouch either. Would rather we went with a 4-2-3-1 with a bit more protection in front of the CBs. Did Jones not play that formation at Luton? I just dont get the 3 CBs - its not working and needs ditched (except for certain games which may require it)

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derry

derry

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

There’s some Facebook posts saying Orsic is a done deal and he’s about to undergo a medical. Anyone here seen news on this?

Reported completed first part and sorting paperwork.

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Suhari

Suhari

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, saintscottofthenortham said:

Gone to Morecombe for remainder of season.

This guy was loved by (Carlisle? Port Vale? - sorry, can't remember) fans when on loan last season, and is onto his second lower league loan already this season.

I hope he makes the breakthrough into our first team. Seems like a good'un.

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saintscottofthenortham

saintscottofthenortham

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Suhari said:

This guy was loved by (Carlisle? Port Vale? - sorry, can't remember) fans when on loan last season, and is onto his second lower league loan already this season.

I hope he makes the breakthrough into our first team. Seems like a good'un.

Carlisle fans were in awe of him. Think he was their Player of the Season, even. Went to Tranmere this season, but it didn't appear to quite work out, though not sure why. Looks to have enough about him to at least get to the point where he has a chance in first team. 

The Port Vale link you're thinking of was Thierry Small, who loaned him only to play a system he doesn't fit. His last appearance was up front. Loan was cut early. He doesn't appear to have made an overly good impression anywhere he has been, mind. 

Edited by saintscottofthenortham
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Suhari

Suhari

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, saintscottofthenortham said:

Carlisle fans were in awe of him. Think he was their Player of the Season, even. Went to Tranmere this season, but it didn't appear to quite work out, though not sure why. Looks to have enough about him to at least get to the point where he has a chance in first team. 

The Port Vale link you're thinking of was Thierry Small, who loaned him only to play a system he doesn't fit. His last appearance was up front. Loan was cut early. He doesn't appear to have made an overly good impression anywhere he has been, mind. 

That's it. Corrected my memory: cheers.

Two contrasting personalities it seems: Simeu and Small.

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Fabrice29

Fabrice29

Posted
Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, saintscottofthenortham said:

Carlisle fans were in awe of him. Think he was their Player of the Season, even. Went to Tranmere this season, but it didn't appear to quite work out, though not sure why. Looks to have enough about him to at least get to the point where he has a chance in first team. 

The Port Vale link you're thinking of was Thierry Small, who loaned him only to play a system he doesn't fit. His last appearance was up front. Loan was cut early. He doesn't appear to have made an overly good impression anywhere he has been, mind. 

Apart from Everton and Southampton you mean, who both wanted him quite considerably? Two out of 3 of the clubs you've been at isn't a bad effort. He's 18. 

28 minutes ago, saintscottofthenortham said:

Has he made a good impression here? He was dreadful against Coventry and hasn't pulled up any trees when he was with U23's.

I can't post again so just editing this but judging a kids level of impression made based on 45 minutes at a level he's barely played at before seems weird. He's played twice for the B team I believe as well so again, weird judgement. I look forward to your run down of all the 17/18 years old at the club and writing off almost all of them based on the lack of impression made because he seems ahead of a lot of them to me.

Edited by Fabrice29
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Smirking_Saint

Smirking_Saint

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

This is complete tosh.

A) We've kept 1 clean sheet all season and it wasn't when ABK and Salisu were playing together so no, they were not fine. Good individually yes, will improve yes, our best two maybe, but fine as a two? Obviously wasn't fine.

B) DCC has looked far from comfortable, apart from on the bench. Maybe it's because he's not been trusted enough but he's far too tentative and slow on the ball, he's clearly slow off the ball as well (in fairness, he also clearly knows that and hides it well) and not paticulary dominant in the air either. There was a few games when he started and he looked okay (above) and maybe in a slightly less high pressing side he would be more comfortable, but two managers now haven't fancied him, 3 if you include Croatia's who dumped him as soon as a young emerging talent came through.

C) Lavia was way off the pace yesterday. You'll come back with something about the tactics by passing the midfield but he was second to almost everything yesterday and sloppy on the ball. I don't think asking him to protect a fragile back four is particularly wise for anyone just yet. 

D) Two managers now have referenced the height in our team being an issue. We're weak at set pieces anyway, so playing only 2 CB's doesn't make much sense. 3 at the back is absolutely fine if you have the quality in midfield to be dynamic, quick and inventive. We don't and that continues to be our biggest issue. Ralph may have hid it better by being a reactive side but we need to give this manager his players to do it his way. The system isn't the issue, systems don't win or lose you games, the quality (or lack of) in your side does.

 

 

Talking of complete tosh…

Systems definately define a sides fortunes, or lack of, especially at the top level.. to say otherwise is shortsighted tbh

For a start you cannot just throw 3 CBs at a side and hope it works, as a formation its far more nuanced than that, especially if you have largely inexperienced CBs and/or a lack of anyone martial ing the back line particularly well. Every goal conceded as a back 3 has been completely indicative of how it fails and even on Wednesday we saw the Johnson chance which again showed the lack of communication and responsibility taking.

A back four with a fit Lavia is a fine formation, it worked well previously.. our issue was we started to overstretch chasing goals and we get killed on the counter.. this hasn’t eased under a 3 back at all

The issue we have right now is that we 100% have a distinct lack of quality.. but IMO Nathan Jones is actually compounding that issue instead of easing it by using a system that is more suited to what we have

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goodymatt

goodymatt

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

In the same feed it says another midfielder and defender by Everton game no mention of a forward 

So we are confident of getting CB, midfielder and Orsic in by the time we play Everton but that doesn’t mean we won’t sign a striker. Frustrating that the most important position is going to take longer to fill. Gutted that we couldn’t convince Ings to come back, I think his goals would have kept us up.

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Chewy

Chewy

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, ally_uk said:

Striker next! 

 

7 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

In the same feed it says another midfielder and defender by Everton game no mention of a forward 

Should have been striker first, middle and last for the last 2, possibly 3 transfer windows.

Whether you measure us as a football team, an entertainment provider with light shows and everything or a multi million pound business trying to make money, getting a striker should be our number one priority for every single employee. This should have been done on January 1st (I.e. sorted in October/November) - we’ve known about it for months and after the summer debacle I can’t believe they’d have left this to chance.

I know it’s difficult and everyone wants a striker, always. But this is literally the only thing we’ve needed to focus on in months. We needed to throw cash and the kitchen sink at this and so far nothing.

It’s almost as astounding as not sacking NJ after Wednesday night. 
Utterly, utterly clueless people running the club.

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Mozz

Mozz

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

In the same feed it says another midfielder and defender by Everton game no mention of a forward 

This, combined with the fact that earlier in the article they describe Orsic as a striker worries me.

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Nolan

Nolan

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Mozz said:

This, combined with the fact that earlier in the article they describe Orsic as a striker worries me.

he played as one of a front two in most Champions league matches for Dinamo this season. Including the one against Chelsea. 

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