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Summer Transfer Window 2023

FarehamSaintJames

By FarehamSaintJames,
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egg

egg

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

Too right we don’t want Downes on loan.  That is taking the mickey.

Is a year long loan any different, in reality, to buying a decent young player who'd move on after a year anyway?  I'd be happy with Downes for a season and a decent fee for JWP. 

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Convict Colony

Convict Colony

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Greedyfly said:

He did not.

 

He was average.

He left in Jan in the most recent season so obviously he wasn't going to be in it.

Might be worthwhile reviewing his stats - he's a good progressive/attacking rwb or right sided, if KWP goes then I am more than comfortable with Bree in that role as he seems to fit the profile Martin likes.

 

pizza_james_bree_RM_2022-23-1.png

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

It’s good to see that the clubs stance appears to be pay up or bugger off. Refreshing!

As long as the message is bugger off and that we're not playing billy big bollocks now and then drop our pants at the end of august when the players wanting to leave kick up a fuss. Are we also going to have a load of pissed off players causing agg behind the scenes because we priced them out of a move?

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Toussaint

Toussaint

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, egg said:

Is a year long loan any different, in reality, to buying a decent young player who'd move on after a year anyway?  I'd be happy with Downes for a season and a decent fee for JWP. 

Well the difference is a if he has a stand out season we may make on the deal, if we get promoted he may stay for a season. I don’t see any value in a px that has no cash value. Happy with the loan, but not as part of the sale transaction 

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Baird of the land

Baird of the land

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

He left in Jan in the most recent season so obviously he wasn't going to be in it.

Might be worthwhile reviewing his stats - he's a good progressive/attacking rwb or right sided, if KWP goes then I am more than comfortable with Bree in that role as he seems to fit the profile Martin likes.

 

pizza_james_bree_RM_2022-23-1.png

Poor dribbling, linkup and retention doesn't seem to fit what Martin's aiming for imo.

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egg

egg

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Turkish said:

As long as the message is bugger off and that we're not playing billy big bollocks now and then drop our pants at the end of august when the players wanting to leave kick up a fuss. Are we also going to have a load of pissed off players causing agg behind the scenes because we priced them out of a move?

I think it's inevitable that we'll have pissed off players if we price them out of moves. We'll then compound that by not playing them as we have a bloated squad, or playing them and pissing off other players by playing the pissed off players who didn't move. Basically, everyone's gonna be pissed off. I think.  

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egg

egg

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Well the difference is a if he has a stand out season we may make on the deal, if we get promoted he may stay for a season. I don’t see any value in a px that has no cash value. Happy with the loan, but not as part of the sale transaction 

You're overthinking the detail. A sale will have a fee. A loan will have a fee. It may have an option and a fee may be paid for the option. If we sell JWP and get Downes on loan, all that matters is that we get the player and the bet cash that we want. 

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, egg said:

I think it's inevitable that we'll have pissed off players if we price them out of moves. We'll then compound that by not playing them as we have a bloated squad, or playing them and pissing off other players by playing the pissed off players who didn't move. Basically, everyone's gonna be pissed off. I think.  

There will be a breaking point at some point in August, the players are quite calm at the moment but if it comes to August and they still don't have anything lined up I can imagine the attitudes will change.

What we don't want to do is paint ourselves into a corner by playing hard ball now, then having to give in during late August and having zero time to actually replace, or having to ridiculously overpay ourselves with panicked deals. It's a really difficult one and I guess only the club know truthfully how certain individuals will react as the weeks tick on.

Edited by S-Clarke
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Chewy

Chewy

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, John B said:

Stephens is one of the top English CBs around so why do you think he is shit

 

 

Sorry, are you talking about the same Jack Stephens everyone else is? 
And was that a genuinely serious comment or a bit of sarcasm that’s flown over my head??

Genuinely stunned if so. And that takes some doing on this place!!

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the saint in winchester

the saint in winchester

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, CSA96 said:

 

I can't comment on Flynn Downes. I've not seen him play but many of you have and say he is good. I assume our response is related to a declining of '£25M plus player on loan' whereas we value JWP at £40M, so don't want any sleight of hand in a year's time when we realize we only got £25M for JWP.

We WILL need another CM if we lose JWP and Lavia. Charles is one, we need another.

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Saint Fan CaM

Saint Fan CaM

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, the saint in winchester said:

I can't comment on Flynn Downes. I've not seen him play but many of you have and say he is good. I assume our response is related to a declining of '£25M plus player on loan' whereas we value JWP at £40M, so don't want any sleight of hand in a year's time when we realize we only got £25M for JWP.

We WILL need another CM if we lose JWP and Lavia. Charles is one, we need another.

I wonder if it’s Downes himself who has requested the loan deal as at least then he’s still contracted to a Prem team. I completely agree with the stance that SFC are taking on this…pay up £40m that JWP is worth to us or walk-away. Even if Downes is a good player, it’s difficult to imagine him being anything more than a down-grade on JWP and as I keep on saying, we need a better squad than last season to stand a chance of promotion. That is unless we assume that even the better players in the squad like JWP are responsible for the relegation?

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Dellman

Dellman

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, John B said:

Stephens is one of the top English CBs around so why do you think he is shit

 

 

Well said! About time someone on this site stood up for Jack. He now has a lot of Premier experience and will be a big asset this season. 

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Smirking_Saint

Smirking_Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, Chewy said:

Sorry, are you talking about the same Jack Stephens everyone else is? 
And was that a genuinely serious comment or a bit of sarcasm that’s flown over my head??

Genuinely stunned if so. And that takes some doing on this place!!

Neither are particularly great but Bednarek is clearly a better CB than Jack, and the stats support my general opinions whilst watching him

Stephens only managed to play half of Bournemouths games, even when they were terrible defensively

He’ll be ok in the Champ but nothing more. Similar to Lyanco JS gets the benefit of the doubt because he shows a bit of ‘pashun’ every now and then… even if he then leaves the player he just tried to wind up completely free at the back post….

IMG_8592.jpeg

IMG_8590.jpeg
 

FWIW though stats aren’t everything, Lyanco looks like a world beater

 

IMG_8593.jpeg

Edited by Smirking_Saint
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revolution saint

revolution saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I remember reading that Martin teams don't do dribbling. 

TBF he did say he was looking forward to working with a squad that had more dynamic forward players (or something like that).  It hasn't stopped Tino or Amo-Ameyaw in pre-season making some dribbles so I'm hoping he'll be able to make use of players that can take people on.  In particular Sulemana and Tella need to be encouraged to do this.

Edit:  Just seen you were talking in relation to Bree - so points above not so relevant.

Edited by revolution saint
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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

TBF he did say he was looking forward to working with a squad that had more dynamic forward players (or something like that).  It hasn't stopped Tino or Amo-Ameyaw in pre-season making some dribbles so I'm hoping he'll be able to make use of players that can take people on.  In particular Sulemana and Tella need to be encouraged to do this.

Edit:  Just seen you were talking in relation to Bree - so points above not so relevant.

Yes I get that. I just don't think being not so great at dribbling isn't something that doesn't seem to fit in a Martin team. The evidence suggests the opposite. 

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charliemiller

charliemiller

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Neither are particularly great but Bednarek is clearly a better CB than Jack, and the stats support my general opinions whilst watching him

Stephens only managed to play half of Bournemouths games, even when they were terrible defensively

He’ll be ok in the Champ but nothing more. Similar to Lyanco JS gets the benefit of the doubt because he shows a bit of ‘pashun’ every now and then… even if he then leaves the player he just tried to wind up completely free at the back post….

IMG_8592.jpeg

IMG_8590.jpeg
 

FWIW though stats aren’t everything, Lyanco looks like a world beater

 

IMG_8593.jpeg

Appears Lynco was our best defender then lol

 

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Doctoroncall

Doctoroncall

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Maybe but I think he's the one I really wanted to watch apart from Alcaraz next year. I was excited to see what he could do in the championship. Never mind. 

Same. He’s obviously repaying Saints by getting a fee in 😒. I wonder what the clauses are and how much if any Chelsea get of it. 

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Give it to Ron

Give it to Ron

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

Being realistic, we have three RBs you could argue are amongst the best in the league. It’s a luxury we neither need nor can afford, so if we get a sizeable chunk of £30m to spend on attacking players, I’ll take that.

Me too as long as money well used and we have a % sell on fee. 
A risk that his injuries may hinder him this season so maybe we decided to cash in given above

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Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Is that 30 for saints or 30 in total with us getting a piddling amount after Chelsea take their slice? That's a bit disappointing to be honest. 

Contracted till 2026 (thanks over land and sea thread). You'd have hoped we'd get the most out of it we could. Tino is a key example of the SR model. If the return is meagre for the successful ones, after clauses, then the model is undermined a bit. Even if we get more from others like Lavia, it is a bit disappointing.

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Doctoroncall

Doctoroncall

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, beatlesaint said:

To be honest I would have thought Newcastle would have been better off with KWP given he can play either side.......unless they want to turn Tino into a wide midfielder, cos hes not getting in ahead of Trippier.   

Trippier is getting on a bit and with CL football if they make it to the group stages increasing the number of games, Tino will get games. 

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Golac's Cunning Stunts

Golac's Cunning Stunts

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Give it to Ron said:

Me too as long as money well used and we have a % sell on fee. 
A risk that his injuries may hinder him this season so maybe we decided to cash in given above

Chelsea will have a hefty sell on percentage for sure.

At one stage it was rumoured they were in for him. They have a £25m buy back clause as well - would be funny if they came in and gazumped newcastle, although I'm not sure how all that works to be honest

I'm sure the deal with newcastle will be dependent on games played given his history of injuries

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, ally_uk said:

Ahwell if Tino wants out then so be let's just move on. No need to piss the mattress players leave...

 

Prowse and Lavia next I reckon 

Yes but that is the majority of our decent players. Only really Alcaraz and kwp left from last year after that lot have gone. 

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Smirking_Saint

Smirking_Saint

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Victor said:

I expressed no opinion of Stephens' ability - I was questioning your ability to use the English language.

Id argue that if logic and stats show that Bednarek was the best defender out of the four posted then I was using the correct terminology but each to their own

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Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

The model didnt count on us being relegated which is the spanner in the works.

I was hoping the club would still be able to stand firm on players on longer contracts. The goal being getting back up next season, and having them still with us of possible. Unless we get our own valuation met.

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Daft Kerplunk

Daft Kerplunk

Posted
Posted

Promotion isn’t guaranteed. Newcastle are a massive amount above us and Tino is a Premier League standard player, purchased by us with the clear and signalled intention that he could move as soon as a better offer came in. No brainer for him, why spend any more time than you need to in the Championship and he was sold the club as the chance to get a quick move. Perhaps he’d have stayed longer if we were in the top flight but that wasn’t the model he was sold anyway. 

Good luck to the lad. Next. 

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The Curse of St Mary's

The Curse of St Mary's

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Yes but that is the majority of our decent players. Only really Alcaraz and kwp left from last year after that lot have gone. 

I was most looking forward to watching Charly and Tino light up the championship and it would have been fun to watch. I'm less bothered by JWP and KWP as they are seasoned pros and we seen them at their peak already. They move on with our blessing. Bree was obviously decent for Luton in that way of playing but I don't see him fitting into RMs system and tactics so we will need a new RB if Tino and KWP both leave. 

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James

James

Posted
Posted

This kind of deal is the penalty for the brainless relegation that SR orchestrated last season. Once you factor in the sell-on fee for Chelsea we are basically giving Tino away. Understandable as its a big draw for him and he is too good for the Championship but look at Villa - they told Spurs to p*ss off with a derisory offer for Grealish, he stayed and helped them back up and then they sold him for more than twice as much.

SR have got to be careful here - not much incoming activity on our side, now starting to shift some of the players we'd hope would stay and the real possibility of a mass exodus once the season has started. 

The depth of our squad means that we will more than likely be competitive in the Championship but if we were able to obtain promotion we would likely be left with a massive overhaul being required again - we know that the players we will likely be relying on this year aren't good enough at the higher level. 

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AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, James said:

This kind of deal is the penalty for the brainless relegation that SR orchestrated last season. Once you factor in the sell-on fee for Chelsea we are basically giving Tino away. Understandable as its a big draw for him and he is too good for the Championship but look at Villa - they told Spurs to p*ss off with a derisory offer for Grealish, he stayed and helped them back up and then they sold him for more than twice as much.

SR have got to be careful here - not much incoming activity on our side, now starting to shift some of the players we'd hope would stay and the real possibility of a mass exodus once the season has started. 

The depth of our squad means that we will more than likely be competitive in the Championship but if we were able to obtain promotion we would likely be left with a massive overhaul being required again - we know that the players we will likely be relying on this year aren't good enough at the higher level. 

we obviously are not going up this year, despite the talk from the club...I'd hope we would have had a new keeper, CB and striker..

But the lack of shifting players is probably why we have not.

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James

James

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

we obviously are not going up this year, despite the talk from the club...I'd hope we would have had a new keeper, CB and striker..

But the lack of shifting players is probably why we have not.

You are probably right but again SR need to be careful. Things could get toxic between them and the fanbase if we are uninspiring this year. They will know they are under massive pressure to turn things around.

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Give it to Ron

Give it to Ron

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

we obviously are not going up this year, despite the talk from the club...I'd hope we would have had a new keeper, CB and striker..

But the lack of shifting players is probably why we have not.

Window hasn’t closed yet am still hoping  we will but depends on outgoings doesn’t it. Sooner Lavia JWP transfers sorted the better as it’s obvious the 2 we get something for.

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AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

Posted
Posted
Just now, James said:

You are probably right but again SR need to be careful. Things could get toxic between them and the fanbase if we are uninspiring this year. They will know they are under massive pressure to turn things around.

despite the hype, SR - IMO - are terrible owners.

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