Still think it was a great transfer window?

[washsaint]

Obviously it is very, very early days and the team needs to bed in before sweeping judgements can be made but some initial observations:

1) Downes looked awful yesterday.  Hopefully it was rustiness/being played out of position and he improves

2) Holgate.  Nothing to say but appears an utterly dreadful footballer.  Everton fans appear to have been right.  Just hope it was rustiness/getting used to the team

3) Manning.  Not sure if it is the system or him but can't seem to defend particularly well

4) Ryan Fraser.  Hailed as the new messiah based on a subs appearance but completely anonymous yesterday (but then so were all Saints players)

5) Russell Martin.  No Plan B and strange selections, players out of position, etc.  We got away with it in early games but not yesterday.  Easy to see how we could become very easy to play against

Add to that, the serial failures such as Mara and Stuart Armstrong (why?  Why not have given Ballard or Doyle an opportunity instead of loaning Ballard out or at least play Mara as a striker?)

On paper, we should have the strongest squad in the division but some early worrying signs.  Hopefully over the next month or so everything gels. 

[badgerx16]

Mara should never be a starter.

[Mustapha Fag]

2 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Mara should never be a starter.

Certainly not as a winger, very strange

[trousers]

I scored it 4/10 so I'm delighted with my rating so far...

 

[hypochondriac]

It's one game and much too early to say, particularly as most of the players didn't start the game. 

[CB Fry]

47 minutes ago, washsaint said:

Ryan Fraser.  Hailed as the new messiah based on a subs appearance but completely anonymous yesterday (but then so were all Saints players)

Nobody hailed Ryan Fraser as the new messiah. Nobody.

Edited 3 September, 2023 by CB Fry

[CSA96]

This is going to be a very long and tedious season if people continue to constantly overreact to everything, good or bad, and ‘pick a side’ as if it’s all a case of black or white, rather than there being shades of grey. 🥱

 

[Lighthouse]

Pardew’s team was bottom three at the start of October, even without the minus ten, then it all clicked. This is going to take time, judging our transfer business by results 15 hours after the window closes would be foolish.

 

[skintsaint]

Ah well, we gave it one game. 

[Dark Munster]

2 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Nobody hailed Ryan Fraser as the new messiah. Nobody.

[hypochondriac]

Martin has said all season and preseason that the fans needed to stick with it because we would have bad days. 

[Dusic]

Yes, for a Championship team, it was.

[Luke SkyWalker-Peters]

This is a very quick over-reaction.

In short, we have an excellent squad for this level that is good enough to win the title, but it will take time for them to gel after the massive overhaul. My biggest concern would be with Martin, rather than the squad.

In terms of outgoings, we got excellent fees for our players and weren't forced into discounts like Leicester had for Maddison and Barnes, or horrendous clauses that Leeds had that have essentially lost them almost all the players they bought while in the Premier League for about £20m total. The money we received for players was probably the same as had we stayed in the league. This will be beneficial if we don't manage to make promotion this year.

In terms of incomings, Charles aside - who I think has been very good, they were all players who have proven that they can play at this level or higher in the correct circumstances. Downes had an excellent game against QPR, so it would be ridiculous to completely right him off after his game against Sunderland. Others have had less time in the building. Manning is certainly suffering from the chaotic nature of defending in this system, but he has looked defensively suspect. He is the only one I'm concerned about, but I'm confident in Bree, Holgate and even Larios playing well in the Championship at LB/RB if Manning needs to be benched.

We have assembled an excellent squad for this level. That isn't particularly a surprise when we have such an enormous budget compared to non-parachute payment teams. Football tends to be predictable in every league - the teams with the most money win. Personally, I believe that it is us and Leicester with the two best squads.

In my view, Martin has been given everything he needs. For this level, he can field a great starting XI and has incredible depth. If he can't get the job done, then that's on him.

It won't be easy as other teams aren't having to go through the massive squad overhaul and drastic system changes that the three relegated clubs are. I will stick to my preseason assessment that all three of Leeds, Leicester and Southampton will start hitting form mid-October.

 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

29 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

He's never going to escape not extending that Bournemouth contract. 🙂

[stknowle]

49 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Martin has said all season and preseason that the fans needed to stick with it because we would have bad days. 

Hmmmm. I kinda doubt when he said that he was envisioning a 5-0 pasting which could and should have been far worse. For context we didn't concede 5 in any game last  season inc all of those managed by Mad Nate and that guy that took over from him. I'm fully prepared to stick with it (let's face it I haven't got a choice) but I'm worried and my gut instinct tells me this isn't going to end well.

[gammon cheeks]

Although Lavia was good and Charles might be good we still have not replaced Romeu in my opinion 

[woodsaint1]

Never said it was a great window, but its still a very good window regardless of yesterdays result.

We were always going to lose a few of our better players and we've absolutely maximised those sales. Yes I know the money doesnt help us if we dont spend it, but we were never going to spend massive amounts in the EFL. Also got rid of a few players who were surplus to requirements (Lyanco, Diallo etc, a few more could still go).

Charles looks a fantastic prospect.

Downes, THB, Fraser and Stewart are all great additions for the Championship.

Holgate and Manning are both good additions for the Championship and proven at this level.

Not much to say about our third choice GK signing. 

[stevy777_x]

Why didn t we keep Liz, he would have been worth a try in the champ

[swannymere]

Don't understand the Stuart Armstrong hate?

[Farmer Saint]

My God, this thread 🤣

[stknowle]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

My God, this thread 🤣

Yeah 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣

[Ted Bates Statue]

8/10.

[Saint Billy]

We looked like a team of strangers with a new manager against Sunderland....................................oh!.

[John B]

15 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Pardew’s team was bottom three at the start of October, even without the minus ten, then it all clicked. This is going to take time, judging our transfer business by results 15 hours after the window closes would be foolish.

 

Exactly it took Lawrie Mac four years to get back after our first relegation and it took Ted Bates even longer to get to Div 1 originally 

 

It is possible we could return this season but we have got some young inexperienced player who may develop to become top class.

 

Within in the Championship we are a top club with some financial muscle and eventually will return to the PL

 

Good teams evolve and we want this team to be able to eventually perform well in the PL lets see how they do in the next few months 

[qwertyell]

A centre back who can't defend, a left back who can't defend, a defensive midfielder who can't tackle, and a striker who currently can't even walk is perhaps not the most encouraging crack unit ever assembled.

But I'm sure they'll have better days. Sure-ish.

Objectively, Harwood-Bellis, Downes and Fraser are decent players. Charles is very promising.

Holgate and Manning haven't made great starts - and maybe they'll turn out to be flops in the long term. No club in the history of football has a 100% hit rate with transfers. I doubt we're about to buck the trend.

It's impossible to make any kind of assessment on Stewart until we see what physical condition he returns in (whenever that might be) after a career altering injury.

It is what it is. We're a championship club now and have built a team that looks very much like a championship team. What else was expected?

Whether we challenge for promotion will boil down to what this manager (or the next, or the next) can get out of the group. There's certainly enough there to stave off weekly 5-0 drubbings, you would hope.

[once_bitterne]

17 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

It's one game and much too early to say, particularly as most of the players didn't start the game. 

Why do people keep saying it's one game?  It isn't, it's 5.  We've conceding 4 goals in one game and 5 in another.  Overall we have conceded more goals in these 5 games than any of the other 23 teams in the league.

And it's no surprise is it.  Everyone knew this about Martinball.  Just look at MK Dons or Swansea last season.  Everyone knew this was going to happen.  Playing the way we do, and with a very poor keeper, it has little hope of changing.

There is no hope of getting promoted conceding the amount of goals we are.

Our squad is good, but as pretty as Martinball looks, let's be honest - with our players, if you had let any other manager in the league manage us on Saturday no other would have lost 5-0.  Some may have lost, but not been humiliated as we were.

Are Sport Republic STILL over complicating things?  It's just not getting promoted is it?  It's getting promoted playing 75% 500+ completion pass possession ball.

 

 

[Barsiem]

30 minutes ago, once_bitterne said:

Why do people keep saying it's one game?  It isn't, it's 5.  We've conceding 4 goals in one game and 5 in another.  Overall we have conceded more goals in these 5 games than any of the other 23 teams in the league.

And it's no surprise is it.  Everyone knew this about Martinball.  Just look at MK Dons or Swansea last season.  Everyone knew this was going to happen.  Playing the way we do, and with a very poor keeper, it has little hope of changing.

There is no hope of getting promoted conceding the amount of goals we are.

Our squad is good, but as pretty as Martinball looks, let's be honest - with our players, if you had let any other manager in the league manage us on Saturday no other would have lost 5-0.  Some may have lost, but not been humiliated as we were.

Are Sport Republic STILL over complicating things?  It's just not getting promoted is it?  It's getting promoted playing 75% 500+ completion pass possession ball.

 

 

It's 5 games, from which we have got 10 points.  We continue that run over the season and that would have been enough for promotion last season.  We are also in much better position than Burnley were this time last season and they ran away with the title.

Saturday was definitely concerning, as are the number of goals conceded, but we are so early on and have made a lot of new signings . 

It maybe things don't improve and the doom merchants are correct, but it's far too early to say and anyone claiming otherwise is an idiot.

Edited 4 September, 2023 by Barsiem

[trousers]

31 minutes ago, once_bitterne said:

And it's no surprise is it.  Everyone knew this about Martinball.  Just look at MK Dons or Swansea last season.  Everyone knew this was going to happen.  Playing the way we do, and with a very poor keeper, it has little hope of changing.

This is what I don't get with SR's / Wilcox's strategy... I understand the rewards that a high-possession strategy can potentially reap, but given the inherent risks of such a philosophy - i.e. that we will have much more counter-attacks against us compared to a 'normal' team - surely the highest priority of such a system is that you get the best possible shot-stopping keeper you can in order to defend said counter-attacks?

It's pointless going for a keeper who is "good with the ball and fits our play-out-from-the-back approach" if he's not much cop without the ball....

Edited 4 September, 2023 by trousers

[Dark Munster]

8 hours ago, trousers said:

This is what I don't get with SR's / Wilcox's strategy... I understand the rewards that a high-possession strategy can potentially reap, but given the inherent risks of such a philosophy - i.e. that we will have much more counter-attacks against us compared to a 'normal' team - surely the highest priority of such a system is that you get the best possible shot-stopping keeper you can in order to defend said counter-attacks?

It's pointless going for a keeper who is "good with the ball and fits our play-out-from-the-back approach" if he's not much cop without the ball....

I think it's because they spent £15m on him, so they are going to stick with him come hell or high water.

[S-Clarke]

43 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

I think it's because they spent £15m on him, so they are going to stick with him come hell or high water.

I dunno, they spent £18m on Onuachu and they're not exactly sticking with him. 

I don't think it's to do with how much we spent on him, there's something else at play behind the scenes. They may believe he has absolutely incredible potential, and that these are just growing pains, but it will be pretty much typical that we have to endure all the growing pains and as soon as he becomes any good we will cash in.

[Dark Munster]

Just now, S-Clarke said:

I dunno, they spent £18m on Onuachu and they're not exactly sticking with him. 

I don't think it's to do with how much we spent on him, there's something else at play behind the scenes. They may believe he has absolutely incredible potential, and that these are just growing pains, but it will be pretty much typical that we have to endure all the growing pains and as soon as he becomes any good we will cash in.

Yeah, but there's a big difference. Tall Paul was a desperation signing in a relegation battle, with no expectation of resale value down the road. Baz was signed as a youngster with an eye for a big resale later.

They screwed up on both fronts of course.

[Dr Who?]

Far too early to tell. Will let you know come the end of October time. 

[LiberalCommunist]

On 03/09/2023 at 20:13, gammon cheeks said:

Although Lavia was good and Charles might be good we still have not replaced Romeu in my opinion 

I’m still waiting for the fonte replacement!

[revolution saint]

2 hours ago, Dr Who? said:

Far too early to tell. Will let you know come the end of October time. 

Yep, me too. 

[eurosaint]

On 04/09/2023 at 18:06, Dark Munster said:

I think it's because they spent £15m on him, so they are going to stick with him come hell or high water.

We spent more on Tall paul and still got rid of him !!

EDIT :   Sorry, someone beat me to it....

Edited 11 September, 2023 by eurosaint

[coalman]

Oh good. Another season of transfer window hindsight.

[david in sweden]

... seems that a lot of people spend too much time dwelling on those negative deals without realising that we actually made good money on a very few deals. 

With hindsight, Onuacho was the wrong deal for both Saints and the player, but if he rediscovers his scoring form in Turkey, we will get back our investment 

and perhaps even more, likewise  ABK cost less than 10 million, but a good season on loan will bring a very positive return when he moves permanently. 

Players on their last season often sadly move for less than their worth, and so I'm glad that we held out in not selling Che Adams too cheaply.

 

Amongst those players who left the club;  Salisu, Livramento, JWP, Lavia, Tella and JJ Morgan cost the club  less than  30 million to sign in the first place

whilst the net profit of selling them now has been c... 140 million.   This doesn't make the club rich, but will help to balance the books after the

huge 70 million bank loan we took out during COVID,  and the outstanding repayments for those terrible deals from the Wilson / Reed period, and 

a raft of " former managers " still  to pay off. 

(Longer memories recall that the Boufal and Carrillo deals who failed to live up to their hype, whilst  during his time Nicola Cortese almost bankrupted

the club a second time with the disasterous deals for Osvaldo and Ramirez in 2013). 

Although we are unlikely to get another window with anywhere near the recent profits, our new arrivals have cost a very small part of that amount 

that may well be much more if / when they move on ... in the future.   I'd say we'd had a good window - for once, especially compared to some of 

those " big clubs " who burden themselves with huge buys, who then fail, which can be very painful.

After squandering  ....72 million on Nicolas Pepe a few years ago,  Arsenal were forced to let his go... . on a free transfer.

and Daniel Levy at Spurs must be smarting  after having to rid himself of two players - whose combined transfer fees were c. 100 million - 

he could only recoup a bare 30 million for them.

 

Not a lot of fun when you have a billion pound stadium to pay for and no promise of any great success in sight. 

The 90 million (?) he got for Harry Kane must seem a very small reward for the loss of a top striker, and with no obvious replacement available.

 

Edited 12 September, 2023 by david in sweden

[Wade Garrett]

Good window.  Once the players gel and get used to total football, we’ll destroy this league.

[waterlooville saint]

On the face of it, I'd say it's as good as we could have expected. Relegation always meant there would be a high turnover of players. We needed to trim the squad size, freshen it up, which we've done. Results will be the deciding factor on how good it really was.

I find it hard to believe the level of negativity about some of our new signings I read on here and other forums. Yes the Sunderland result & performance was a total disaster, but look at the number of changes that took place in the lineups during the first 5 league games, the majority of which were outside of the managers control.

Hopefully the international break has given us time to bed some things in, even though we've had quite a few players on international duty.

[once_bitterne]

21 hours ago, waterlooville saint said:

On the face of it, I'd say it's as good as we could have expected. Relegation always meant there would be a high turnover of players.

Really?  Have you had a look at just how poor the other squads at this level are?  The teams doing well this season like Preston, Birmingham, Ipswich and Hull have very few players who would get in our starting lineup.  We've proven PL players like S Armstrong, Bednarek and Stephens and players far too good for this level like Alcaraz and KWP.

We are struggling due to the handicap that has been imposed by SR by not only trying to get promoted but getting promoted using a style of play ill suited to our players and the league we are in.

[Barsiem]

1 hour ago, once_bitterne said:

We are struggling 

Are we??  I was under the impression we were averaging two points a game and finally actually scoring goals!  And achieving this whilst the squad has had its biggest overhaul since we were in L1

[SaintsFan86]

Bazunu / Macca,Lumley

KWP / Bree

THB / Bednarek

Stephens / Holgate

Manning  / Larios

Charles / Downes

Smallbone / Stuey

Alcaraz / Arma

Sulemana / SAA, Aribo

Fraser / Edozie

Adams / Stewart.

I'd say we have had a solid 9 out of 10, We've kept key players and enhanced other areas of the pitch.

Ideally id have liked a competent GK to challenge Bazunu in style of GK Russell actually wants because i don't feel at all confident that McCarthy or Lumley wil do this well at all.

We also got rid of alot of players i actually didn't expect to move on either, Some for very decent money.