Saints 0-1 Ipswich - Match Thread

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I was spitting feathers after Friday's game, but hearing Whitey's situation just reminds me that football is just a game. 

Thanks. I really didn’t want to hijack this thread or put a downer on the game. Mods, if you want to split my problems into a different thread then please go ahead.

Thank you everybody for your kind and comforting thoughts. Please remember that whatever the result on Tuesday we are all on the same side and that it’s only a game.

[sfc4prem]

I agree with the 'it is only a game' sentiment.

I have managed to begin feeling that way about Saints for a while now. It helps prevent any pain when we concede or lose. It's got to the point now where I don't get angry or sad, but instead chuckle at how bad we are at times. A shame, because it's nice to feel passionately about your club, but hey.

[JRM]

Taken from an Ipswich forum, you'd have thought if we can  see it  and their fans can see it, then Martin has no excuses for not being prepared 

"I think it’s perfectly set up for us. They’ll fanny about with it at the back which will suit our high press. They’ll look to dominate the ball and s..l..o..w..l..y move up the pitch in numbers, which will suit our break. We can be clinical with not much of the ball and few chances. Still won’t be easy of course, but I’m quietly confident and looking forward to it." 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

10 minutes ago, JRM said:

Taken from an Ipswich forum, you'd have thought if we can  see it  and their fans can see it, then Martin has no excuses for not being prepared 

"I think it’s perfectly set up for us. They’ll fanny about with it at the back which will suit our high press. They’ll look to dominate the ball and s..l..o..w..l..y move up the pitch in numbers, which will suit our break. We can be clinical with not much of the ball and few chances. Still won’t be easy of course, but I’m quietly confident and looking forward to it." 

Good grief! An Ipswich spy has broken into our trainng nerve centre and somehow managed to take the two, maybe three seconds, needed to unravel our master plan!

Confident we'll set up just the same way. They won't expect that, now we know they know. 🙂

[macca155]

I very much doubt Martin will change things.Holgate in for Downes I suspect even he will want Charles in midfield.

It might be worth giving Doyle a chance as we desperately need a presence in the midfield. He seems to have been pretty sharp in pre season.

It is ridiculous that a team who can put out a midfield of, Charles, Smallbone, Alcaraz, and S Armstrong, can struggle in this league. I'd add Dibling into that list as well.

Maybe those 2 results will force him to change tactics a little.

Edited 17 September, 2023 by macca155

[Nolan]

 

We have been hugely disadvantaged by Stephens Injury, and for Bednarek to be out on Friday was a huge blow.

I'm still giving the benefit of the doubt, as the Centre Back pairings will setlle.

What I dont however agree with, is having both Smallbone and Downes starting. They cause anonymity in midfield. That looks to have been taken off the table anyway.

 

 

                                           Bazunu

KWP          Bednarek                           THB            Manning

                                          Smallbone

                           Alcaraz                 A. Armstrong

Edozie                                                                     Fraser

                                           Adams

 

Edited 17 September, 2023 by Nolan

[Harry_SFC]

1 minute ago, Nolan said:

 

We have been hugely disadvantaged by Stephens Injury, and for Bendarek to be out on Friday was a huge blow.

I'm still giving the benefit of the doubt, as the Centre Back pairings will setlle.

What I dont however agree with, is having both Smallbone and Downes starting. They cause anonymity in midfield. That looks to have been taken off the table anyway.

 

 

                                           Bazunu

KWP          Bednarek                           THB            Manning

                                          Smallbone

                           Alcaraz                 A. Armstrong

Edozie                                                                     Fraser

                                           Adams

 

No way can we go into this game with that midfield. Charles has to play. 

[Smirking_Saint]

7 minutes ago, Nolan said:

 

We have been hugely disadvantaged by Stephens Injury, and for Bednarek to be out on Friday was a huge blow.

I'm still giving the benefit of the doubt, as the Centre Back pairings will setlle.

What I dont however agree with, is having both Smallbone and Downes starting. They cause anonymity in midfield. That looks to have been taken off the table anyway.

 

 

                                           Bazunu

KWP          Bednarek                           THB            Manning

                                          Smallbone

                           Alcaraz                 A. Armstrong

Edozie                                                                     Fraser

                                           Adams

 

Why on earth would you drop Charles ?

[JRM]

5 minutes ago, Nolan said:

 

We have been hugely disadvantaged by Stephens Injury, and for Bednarek to be out on Friday was a huge blow.

I'm still giving the benefit of the doubt, as the Centre Back pairings will setlle.

What I dont however agree with, is having both Smallbone and Downes starting. They cause anonymity in midfield. That looks to have been taken off the table anyway.

 

 

                                           Bazunu

KWP          Bednarek                           THB            Manning

                                          Smallbone

                           Alcaraz                 A. Armstrong

Edozie                                                                     Fraser

                                           Adams

 

That's a completely disjointed team, zero presence in midfield, 5 players who primarily focus is attack, we'd be overrun and concede a few. Charles in for Edozie I think (don't think I've ever seen Edozie successfully make a tackle) 

[Nolan]

36 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Why on earth would you drop Charles ?

Simple really. 

against Sheffield Wed our midfield trio was Smallbone Alcaraz JWP.  Smallbone played as the DM role and did it well, and we need more experience especially if our two CB's are still fresh in the team.

 

 

[Harry_SFC]

1 minute ago, Nolan said:

Simple really. 

against Sheffield Wed our midfield trio was Smallbone Alcaraz JWP.  Smallbone played as the DM role and did it well, and we need more experience especially if our two CB's are still fresh in the team.

 

 

We're not playing against Sheffield Wednesday though and we also had JWP in midfield that day who has much more presence than our current bunch. 

Ipswich are 2nd in the league for a reason. 

[Chris cooper]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Thanks. I really didn’t want to hijack this thread or put a downer on the game. Mods, if you want to split my problems into a different thread then please go ahead.

Thank you everybody for your kind and comforting thoughts. Please remember that whatever the result on Tuesday we are all on the same side and that it’s only a game.

Just read thread .. hope the mrs gets well soon whitey lad 

[Convict Colony]

1 hour ago, Nolan said:

 

We have been hugely disadvantaged by Stephens Injury, and for Bednarek to be out on Friday was a huge blow.

I'm still giving the benefit of the doubt, as the Centre Back pairings will setlle.

What I dont however agree with, is having both Smallbone and Downes starting. They cause anonymity in midfield. That looks to have been taken off the table anyway.

 

 

                                           Bazunu

KWP          Bednarek                           THB            Manning

                                          Smallbone

                           Alcaraz                 A. Armstrong

Edozie                                                                     Fraser

                                           Adams

 

I am sorry but that midfield is getting bent over and destroyed by any team.

 

I want Downs and Charles as 2 DMs and Alcaraz in front, lets tighten it up for 1 game

[JRM]

30 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

I am sorry but that midfield is getting bent over and destroyed by any team.

 

I want Downs and Charles as 2 DMs and Alcaraz in front, lets tighten it up for 1 game

Downes will be out injured for a few games from the sound of it 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Adams & Armstrong look at good front 2 pairing to me.

Frazer & Edozie look decent options down the flanks, with cue ball & Charles sitting in central midfield. Pick 2 centre halves & get full backs playing as…full backs. 
 

In other words 4-4- fucking 2. 

Edited 17 September, 2023 by Lord Duckhunter

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Adams & Armstrong look at good front 2 pairing to me.

Frazer & Edozie look decent options down the flanks, with cue ball & Charles sitting in central midfield. Pick 2 centre halves & get full backs playing as…full backs. 
 

In other words 4-4- fucking 2. 

Nah, that's not hipster enough 🙂 Got to be clever these days.

[Lord Duckhunter]

9 minutes ago, saintant said:

Nah, that's not hipster enough 🙂 Got to be clever these days.

It doesn’t even need to be inflexible, 4-4-2 suffers a bad rap, but it gives you   a solid base defensively & can be really flexible going forward. Defensively one of Adams or AA drops in making it a 4-5-1, it also gives us outlets to knock the fucking thing and stop mincing around with it. The keeper can ping it, up to Adams chest or head, with AA running after it and Baz is quite capable of knocking it over the full backs into the channels where Edozie or Frazier can get in behind them. Hit teams on the break. 
 

When we have decent possession  Both the front 2 like to drift around and pick up pockets of space, so they offer flexibility. The wide men are both capable of going past people down the outside, but they’re also quite capable of going the other way as well and making runs from out to in. The full backs can get wide, high up the pitch, with Charles sitting in the OR role protecting the centre backs in case we give it away. 
 

To me 4-4-2 fits the players we’ll have available Tuesday, except Manning, who doesn’t strike me as being capable of over lapping & crossing the bloody thing. It clearly won’t happen, not The Saints way to March on. 

[VectisSaint]

2 hours ago, JRM said:

Downes will be out injured for a few games from the sound of it 

Looked like metatarcel injury from the way they were checking his foot (not that I am any kind of doctor). Edozie was also replaced due to injury according to the commentary team, they said due to a knock, think that makes him at best doubtful for Tuesday. Hopefully Bednarek will be back, sounded like he wasn't far off on Friday having trained.

Would go Bazunu, KWP, Bednarek, Harwood-Bellis, Manning (would prefer Larios, but no chance), Charles, Smallbone, S Armstrong, Fraser, A Armstrong, Adams. Maybe Charley instead of Stuey.

[eurosaint]

22 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I shan’t be going. My beautiful wife and constant companion of over 57 years is gravely ill and I shall not be leaving her side. Our grandson has my ticket and he will give me a full and honest report.

Sorry to hear this Whitey and I wish both you and her my best wishes !

This is much more important than a silly football match…

All the best,

Eurosaint

 

[austsaint]

22 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I shan’t be going. My beautiful wife and constant companion of over 57 years is gravely ill and I shall not be leaving her side. Our grandson has my ticket and he will give me a full and honest report.

So sorry to read this.  I love your posts… full of insight and humour.   My thoughts are with you and your family from whom I hope you can gain much strength and comfort.

[Charlie Wayman]

22 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I shan’t be going. My beautiful wife and constant companion of over 57 years is gravely ill and I shall not be leaving her side. Our grandson has my ticket and he will give me a full and honest report.

You're a good man Whitey, We are all praying for you. Love and Best wishes.

[Greedyfly]

22 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

That’s very kind and thoughtful of you but sadly there is no hope for her. This is one occasion where the result is unimportant to me.

Ever so sorry to hear this, my regards to you and the family.

[Sheaf Saint]

Like everyone else @Whitey Grandad I'm sending my warmest wishes to you and your family at this challenging time. Sport is just a meaningless distraction really when you put it in perspective.

Edited 17 September, 2023 by Sheaf Saint

[CanadaSaint]

On 16/09/2023 at 15:24, Whitey Grandad said:

I shan’t be going. My beautiful wife and constant companion of over 57 years is gravely ill and I shall not be leaving her side. Our grandson has my ticket and he will give me a full and honest report.

I've made the journey Whitey, my electronic friend, so I know how hard it is. I hope it comforts you to know that she will not leave your side, either. Every time I sit down to watch Saints I hear a wonderful, familiar voice in my mind saying "I don't know why you keep shouting at them - they can't hear you". It still brings a tear to my eye but also a smile to my face. Make sure you look after yourself, too, Whitey. It's easy to forget that part at times like this.

[Morse]

We,ll score; they'll score more. Fact. 

[Dman]

Something has to change. We're ay too exposed and need to steady the ship and become more solid defensively. Full back is a big issue, so it needs to be a priority to look at (along with CM).

Bazunu 

Holgate Bednerak THB KWP / Manning 

Charles (WE HAVE TO PLAY CHARLES HERE)

S Armstong Alcaraz

Fraser Adams A.Armstong 

 

We'll lose though - Ipswich are a team of average players coached very well. We're the exact opposite. 

Edited 18 September, 2023 by Dman

[James]

If Charles doesn't play in DM we will lose. With him we will have a chance based on his performances there v Norwich and Plymouth. Whether RM is flexible enough to make this change is an open question at this point.

[Chewy]

9 minutes ago, Dman said:

Something has to change. We're ay too exposed and need to steady the ship and become more solid defensively. Full back is a big issue, so it needs to be a priority to look at (along with CM).

Bazunu 

Holgate Bednerak THB KWP / Manning 

Charles (WE HAVE TO PLAY CHARLES HERE)

S Armstong Alcaraz

Fraser Adams A.Armstong 

 

We'll lose though - Ipswich are a team of average players coached very well. We're the exact opposite. 

Still want 5 forwards, then? That’ll stem the flood of goals …

[Dman]

1 minute ago, Chewy said:

Still want 5 forwards, then? That’ll stem the flood of goals …

Not sure what else we can do in midfield.. Downes will be out, smallbone is an attacking player, just not a very good one. 

If Downes is fit - he replaces S.Armstrong, for me. 

[waylander]

The M3 is closed northbound between 12 and 11 on Tues night from 9pm

[the saint in winchester]

On 17/09/2023 at 06:57, ally_uk said:

We are so lightweight in midfield 

Need one or two signings but like proper no nonsense experience destroyer Romeu types...

This. Everyone's teams have around 6 attacking players. We have to defend first and foremost. 4 or 5 at the back, 2 DM, but I acknowledge we don't have the players in the squad to do that. Is there anyone in the free agent market we could bring in? Yes, a Romeu or Lavia type, someone who will get their foot in and get the ball off the opposition.

[saintant]

43 minutes ago, the saint in winchester said:

This. Everyone's teams have around 6 attacking players. We have to defend first and foremost. 4 or 5 at the back, 2 DM, but I acknowledge we don't have the players in the squad to do that. Is there anyone in the free agent market we could bring in? Yes, a Romeu or Lavia type, someone who will get their foot in and get the ball off the opposition.

Noah Diliberto is a free agent. French defensive midfielder 22 years old.  Could do a job for us.

[Convict Colony]

28 minutes ago, saintant said:

Noah Diliberto is a free agent. French defensive midfielder 22 years old.  Could do a job for us.

I prefer Noah Gola, great DM hard to score past.

[notnowcato]

On 16/09/2023 at 22:24, Whitey Grandad said:

I shan’t be going. My beautiful wife and constant companion of over 57 years is gravely ill and I shall not be leaving her side. Our grandson has my ticket and he will give me a full and honest report.

All strength to you, Whitey and your family at this sad and difficult time. 

[hypochondriac]

3 hours ago, the saint in winchester said:

This. Everyone's teams have around 6 attacking players. We have to defend first and foremost. 4 or 5 at the back, 2 DM, but I acknowledge we don't have the players in the squad to do that. Is there anyone in the free agent market we could bring in? Yes, a Romeu or Lavia type, someone who will get their foot in and get the ball off the opposition.

Weren't we linked with one Portuguese free agent last week? 

[Dman]

4 hours ago, the saint in winchester said:

This. Everyone's teams have around 6 attacking players. We have to defend first and foremost. 4 or 5 at the back, 2 DM, but I acknowledge we don't have the players in the squad to do that. Is there anyone in the free agent market we could bring in? Yes, a Romeu or Lavia type, someone who will get their foot in and get the ball off the opposition.

Charles is that man - We've been a touch unlucky with injuries to Bednerak and Stephens along with Holgate having an absolute stinker, meaning we've had to put Charles at CB. In hindsight, we shoulda persisted with Holgate, but I think Martin was damned if he did, damned if he didn't there tbf. 

With Charles and Downes, thats a fairly solid pairing with a more attacking option infront of them. I don't think we need another, unless Downes injury is a really bad one. 

Again, in hindsight, we really should have taken £10m for Smallbone when we had the chance. 

Edited 18 September, 2023 by Dman

[waylander]

When is the presser for this one?

[the saint in winchester]

3 hours ago, saintant said:

Noah Diliberto is a free agent. French defensive midfielder 22 years old.  Could do a job for us.

 

3 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

I prefer Noah Gola, great DM hard to score past.

Get them both in. We could do with a couple of Noah's as we are facing a FLOOD of goals.

(Biblical joke. I'll get my coat, yeah

[trousers]

4 minutes ago, waylander said:

When is the presser for this one?

Any time now (3pm)

[Dman]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

Any time now (3pm)

I started to really enjoy hi press conferences - after his outburst Friday, I'm starting to fear it.. 

[trousers]

https://fb.watch/n84CLom_cz/

[Chez]

I suspect Martin's thought process will be that it takes time for players to get used to his system and way of playing, so no point in making wholesale changes in terms of formation and tactics simply because it hasn't worked the last two games. To a degree, that makes some sense, but I just wonder if his tactics really work against decent, confident sides?

Overall, his Swansea sides were very middling, but when they came up against the decent opponents, that's when they came most unstuck.  I guess that's not really surprising. Lose to the better teams and concede more goals against them. I wonder if we will continue to do the same.

Some stats related to his Swansea tenure.  

21/22
Start: 2 wins, 4 draws, 4 defeats
Season: Won 16 games, drew 13, lost 17.
The bigger defeats (three, four and five goals conceded) were against the four best sides (Sheff United, Fulham, Forrest, Bournemouth)
Finished 15th.

22/23
Start: 3 wins, 3 draws, 4 defeats 
Season: Won 18 games,  drew 12, lost 16. 
Bigger defeats (three or four goals conceded) against Burnley, Sheff United, Boro and Blackburn (top seven teams).
Finished 10th. After 37 games, they were 17th.

 

[Saint Matty 76]

I really want to like Martin and I'm sure he's not happy with how the past few weeks have been, but the fact he's publicly stating he's happy with the Leicester performance over and over again is really worrying.

The shape was absolutely disgusting, we didn't even create a handful of chances and Leicester could've had 8. If we keep playing like this, any team with a bit of attacking quality will take the piss just like Sunderland/Leicester/Norwich have. Plymouth had plenty of chances to as well but just didn't have the quality.

Bednarek back. Sulemana red overturned and Downes late call for tomorrow, in case anybody isn't listening.

[CSA96]

RM has just said in his presser that Kamaldeen's red card has been successfully appealed, he can play in this one

Edited 18 September, 2023 by CSA96

[SambaMaverick]

Not happy with what he's saying to be honest. 

If he wanted to have a squad full of rosy, happy munchkins happy with finishing mid-table, then he should've stayed at Swansea.

[Chez]

RM is painting a picture of having to turn an oil liner around. With an incredibly low base to start from. A losing side. A side without much a shape/philosophy...etc. He's suggesting we can't expect that to change overnight. It will take time before it clicks.

He says Leicester was very different to Sunderland. Sunderland we didn't fight back, but against Leicester we did. The errors that led to goals are put down to nervousness, not the tactics.

  

Edited 18 September, 2023 by Chez

[JRM]

2 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

Not happy with what he's saying to be honest. 

If he wanted to have a squad full of rosy, happy munchkins happy with finishing mid-table, then he should've stayed at Swansea.

I'm still rolling on the floor laughing about his comments about Bazunu and how we'll have to keep him grounded when he has a few clean sheets and everyone starts calling him the best keeper in the league 

[freshen up]

Quite a worrying presser that.

[S-Clarke]

6 minutes ago, Chez said:

RM is painting a picture of having to turn an oil liner around. With an incredibly low base to start from. A losing side. A side without much a shape/philosophy...etc. He's suggesting we can't expect that to change overnight. It will take time before it clicks.

He says Leicester was very different to Sunderland. Sunderland we didn't fight back, but against Leicester we did. The errors that led to goals are put down to nervousness, not the tactics.

  

That argument would have flown if we hadn't shed who we did in the summer. This is a totally new team really, in many cases a lot of these guys have no real connection with the last few years so they shouldn't be hindered by that.

Burnley changed up so much last season, both playing side and the way they played (and theirs was an extreme change from long ball, to football). We're not going from Dyche to Martin, these guys know how to play football already.

The whole needing time is just an excuse really. Good players are good players at the end of the day. We've got enough good players, and we don't have time to 'build' if we want to get promoted. If we're not careful we'll be building ourselves to a playoff fight on the last day, which will be totally unacceptable in my opinion.

Edited 18 September, 2023 by S-Clarke

[Dman]

28 minutes ago, Chez said:

I suspect Martin's thought process will be that it takes time for players to get used to his system and way of playing, so no point in making wholesale changes in terms of formation and tactics simply because it hasn't worked the last two games. To a degree, that makes some sense, but I just wonder if his tactics really work against decent, confident sides?

Overall, his Swansea sides were very middling, but when they came up against the decent opponents, that's when they came most unstuck.  I guess that's not really surprising. Lose to the better teams and concede more goals against them. I wonder if we will continue to do the same.

Some stats related to his Swansea tenure.  

21/22
Start: 2 wins, 4 draws, 4 defeats
Season: Won 16 games, drew 13, lost 17.
The bigger defeats (three, four and five goals conceded) were against the four best sides (Sheff United, Fulham, Forrest, Bournemouth)
Finished 15th.

22/23
Start: 3 wins, 3 draws, 4 defeats 
Season: Won 18 games,  drew 12, lost 16. 
Bigger defeats (three or four goals conceded) against Burnley, Sheff United, Boro and Blackburn (top seven teams).
Finished 10th. After 37 games, they were 17th.

 

Which is why he's not the right long term manager for us - We'd face 'decent opponents' every week should we somehow go up. 

I genuinely fear if we go up, we might see scorelines more than the 2 9's ralph delivered.