Saints 3-2 Watford - Match Thread

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

Great scenes in our bit of the Northam at the end but on reflection, we won in spite of RM and not because of him. Why we were fannying around for practically all the second half when the players must have known only a win would do, is beyond understanding. 

Shout out to Manning when he came on. Rest of subs made little impact. And what has Edozie got to do to get game time?

[Chewy]

I will spend this evening trying to retain the sense of euphoria at winning so late in the game.

Then tomorrow morning I might come back here to talk about how fucking ridiculously stupid our tactics and game management at 2-0 up are. Again. RM is an idiot at times. Still, that’s for the morning.

Back to the euphoria. Buzzing - best feeling leaving st Mary’s in years!

[BranfootsLoveChild]

Can I ask why the hatred towards Hoedt? Some bloke behind me was calling him a c**t all game. I know he left us but I don't know the ins and outs if it.

[musesaint]

Great win. SMS rocking with that goal. ……but RM’s substitutions continue to baffle. 

Edited April 13 by musesaint

[trousers]

8 minutes ago, BranfootsLoveChild said:

Can I ask why the hatred towards Hoedt? Some bloke behind me was calling him a c**t all game. I know he left us but I don't know the ins and outs if it.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7511997/amp/Joining-Southampton-mistake-admits-outcast-Wesley-Hoedt.html

 

[Lighthouse]

I doubt we’ve ever scored two goals in the same match, that were separated by 98 minutes. Must be a new record.

[LaptopSaint]

Great win - three points. Winner right in front of us - place went mental.

Was it perfect or even composed? Of course it fucking wasn’t. Some of it was terrible. There’s something called pressure at this time of the season - anyone notice that Leicester and Leeds lost winnable games? Some of the criticism on here is fucking ridiculous, but I suppose that’s what football forums are all about. 

[Saint_Jonny]

Teenage lad in front of me threw his toys out of the pram big time and launched his half finished bottle of Fanta (lid on) at the pitch. His throw was absolute shit and it clocked some poor suspecting women in the Northam stand in the back of the head. Little cunt left soon after and missed the winning goal (and before he could be reported to a steward)

 

Anyway, the limbs for the goal were the best all season. I hugged many strangers. We're on course for a promotion worthy points total in pretty much any season but this one, people need to remember that when they are slating the team and manager.

[Dan Johnson]

double post

Edited April 13 by Dan Johnson

[Dan Johnson]

5 minutes ago, LaptopSaint said:

Great win - three points. Winner right in front of us - place went mental.

Was it perfect or even composed? Of course it fucking wasn’t. Some of it was terrible. There’s something called pressure at this time of the season - anyone notice that Leicester and Leeds lost winnable games? Some of the criticism on here is fucking ridiculous, but I suppose that’s what football forums are all about. 

Tough to read sometimes.

All the negativity towards RM and his tactics, I think we go 2-0 BECAUSE of his tactics and it’s back to 2-2 because the players start becoming nervous and completely lose their composure. The amount of times we give the ball away isn’t because of tactics in my opinion.

i agree subs can be questionable at times, and I’m not particularly keen on not sticking with the settled back 4 that saw us go on such an incredible unbeaten streak, but allot of the stick is unwarranted 

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

8 minutes ago, Dan Johnson said:

Tough to read sometimes.

 I think we go 2-0 BECAUSE of his tactics and it’s back to 2-2 because the players start becoming nervous and completely lose their composure. The amount of times we give the ball away isn’t because of tactics in my opinion.

If thats the case (and I don't think it is), then it is ultimately up to Martin to solve it. Why d o they get nervous? Why do they lose their composure? Martin's tactics are 100% geared to keep the ball, not give it away after all.

[Chez]

5 minutes ago, Dan Johnson said:

Tough to read sometimes.

All the negativity towards RM and his tactics, I think we go 2-0 BECAUSE of his tactics and it’s back to 2-2 because the players start becoming nervous and completely lose their composure. The amount of times we give the ball away isn’t because of tactics in my opinion.

i agree subs can be questionable at times, and I’m not particularly keen on not sticking with the settled back 4 that saw us go on such an incredible unbeaten streak, but allot of the stick is unwarranted 

Agree fully that we are 2-0 due to Russball. I'm a big fan of our possession game, but there were a few occasions when we played ourselves into trouble because we did not recognise that they were pressing harder with more men further forward. There was also two or three occasions in the second half when it simply had to go long. RM has indoctrinated the play out at all costs, but players (keeper and defenders) need to see that the space is not there. RM and coaching staff need to spot when opponents are pushed high and get players to play that 30 yard ball to the wing instead.

 

[Saint Marky]

2 hours ago, LGTL said:

He was level I think 

From where we sit, I thought Fraser was onside, anyone who watched on a stream, was he on or off?

[Saint NL]

3 minutes ago, Saint Marky said:

From where we sit, I thought Fraser was onside, anyone who watched on a stream, was he on or off?

The replay was useless because it wasn't from a "straight on" angle.

Initially he looked well off, but on the brief replay it was really close and was actually impossible to tell either way.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

4 minutes ago, Chez said:

Agree fully that we are 2-0 due to Russball. I'm a big fan of our possession game, but there were a few occasions when we played ourselves into trouble because we did not recognise that they were pressing harder with more men further forward. There was also two or three occasions in the second half when it simply had to go long. RM has indoctrinated the play out at all costs, but players (keeper and defenders) need to see that the space is not there. RM and coaching staff need to spot when opponents are pushed high and get players to play that 30 yard ball to the wing instead.

 

That's the point. There's nothing wrong with the long ball and sometimes it's necessary. It also starts to make the opponents second guess what we're going to do.

There's nothing wrong with playing from the back, but once you break the press, you have to go forward quickly. Our problem is we break the press then look for the sideways/backwards pass and lose all momentum.

[Saint Marky]

1 minute ago, Saint NL said:

The replay was useless because it wasn't from a "straight on" angle.

Initially he looked well off, but on the brief replay it was really close and was actually impossible to tell either way.

Thanks. As per usual, linesman was fucking useless, so many times waiting for ref to tell him which way for a throw in.

[markr27]

Even if Saints wins all 5 of the games left, they still need Leicester to drop further points to go up automatically.
As it stands, they can only finish 3rd if they do indeed achieve 15/15 (Leeds would be 4th).

Ipswich 98
Leicester 97
Southampton 96
Leeds 93
 

Edited April 13 by markr27

[Harry_SFC]

3 minutes ago, markr27 said:

Even if Saints wins all 5 of the games left, they still need Leicester to drop further points to go up automatically.
As it stands, they can only finish 3rd if they do indeed achieve 15/15 (Leeds would be 4th).

Personally don't think we will beat Leicester. They struggle against teams that sit deep. We are their perfect opposition.

[LaptopSaint]

2 minutes ago, markr27 said:

Even if Saints wins all 5 of the games left, they still need Leicester to drop further points to go up automatically.
As it stands, they can only finish 3rd if they do indeed achieve 15/15 (Leeds would be 4th).

Ipswich have now got Hull and Cov City away and I’d be amazed if they get six points from those two. Win both and they deserve to go up imo 

[Whitey Grandad]

14 minutes ago, Saint Marky said:

From where we sit, I thought Fraser was onside, anyone who watched on a stream, was he on or off?

We sit in block 32 and we’re saying all the time “He’s off. He’s off”. By the time that the pass came across he was at least two yards offside.

[Baird of the land]

1 minute ago, LaptopSaint said:

Ipswich have now got Hull and Cov City away and I’d be amazed if they get six points from those two. Win both and they deserve to go up imo 

By the time they play coventry, coventry will likely be on the beach

[macca155]

1 hour ago, Baird of the land said:

Stephen’s was already stretching his hamstring before the change.

i don’t really trust any of Armstrong, airbo or smallbone to have stamina for 90 minutes. Badly need to get something out of a talent like Charles.

Such an issue for the team. On 70 mins there are holes appearing through the middle. Martin could see it and tried to plug with Stephens. However he was struggling by then as well. Needed Charles or Bragg.

Plus what's happened to Meghoma. Looked ready when he played.

Thought Che had a good game today. Taking him off looked to be an error, but there is a game Tuesday

Martin will be working hard to keep the players fresh.

[The Cat]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

A shout out to Manning for the quality of his corners.

Thought he did really well when he came on.

Made one great tackle on the edge of our box, got forwards a lot and then put in a good free kick which led to the corner we scored from.

[MatthewStiles]

2 hours ago, Chez said:

Not sure I understood taking Aribo off. He was doing OK. I though Smallbone was the one that should have bene replaced. Stu came on and was fucking terrible. I'd of subbed the sub. Not having Charles on the bench or a defensive midfielder RM trusts to bring on is a problem. The Watford player waltzed past Stephens who looked like he was running in treacle. 

Thought KWP started brilliantly. I texted a pal that he was far too good for the championship, after which he looked terrible. He was not helped by not being helped. There are times when its two vs one and we are crying out for a right midfielder to sit in front of him and track the overlap etc.  Playing 4-3-3 is great from an attacking sense, but its an issue for us defensively.

Last thing. I will never bother with the £20 tickets in the chapel again. The number of kids screaming nonsense did my head in. Loved the enthusiasm, but hated the high pitch drivel.

Totally agree.  I did notice that Aribo walked off with a bit of a limp and in the post-match celebrations was still limping slightly so maybe took a bit of a knock.  I wouldn't have taken him off based on how I saw he was playing though and Stuey did not have a good game. 

[DrSuess1979]

Why can we not defend a lead ffs 

even at 2-0 you can feel the tension around the place.

Saying that what a feeling to win the game in the 97min !!! 
amazballs 

[S-Clarke]

For the first 30 mins I felt as if this was going to be another Swansea/Blackburn home game, done and dusted by the hour mark - but we just lost our shit as soon as they got a fluky goal. We couldn't contain them, they were pressing us hard and we couldn't keep the ball - we kept inviting them onto us.

Half time came at a good moment I thought, but the second half started just as bad. Very disjointed, very loose out of possession and when in possession - their goal felt inventible at some point in that 2nd half, but weirdly it came during the time when it felt like the game was petering out. Absolutely hopeless play by Stephens in midfield, as he has absolutely no idea about positional play and where to be. It's a good finish by their player, but once again you have to question it because it wasn't hit with power, it wasn't high into the net, and it still didn't produce any form of save.

I was pretty resigned at that point, the way we'd fucked around from 30 mins looked like it killed us. The subs didn't make us any better either. The winning goal that late on is one of those euphoric moments for, we got one hell of a slice of luck to bundle that in. 

To our credit once it went to 2-2 we did put them under pressure, but I just don't understand why we stood off them so much after 30mins. Stephens defended two moments really well against their attacker, but the obsession with having him at the team in any position is killing us. Bednarek and THB built a partnership, they need to be the two. Downes needs to stay as the 6, his rotational option is Charles. Stephens for me is the third CB and if we keep pissing around with his role we will continue to ship goals.

Great spirit from us to get over the line, but our porous defending continues to hurt us and unless we sort that we will have a real uphill task in the playoffs.

[VectisSaint]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Only two or three yards.

Not when the ball was kicked, he had come back from an offside position (or at least slowed his run so that the defenders went passed him) and looked from the replays that he had got it right, but it was close. 

[BranfootsLoveChild]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7511997/amp/Joining-Southampton-mistake-admits-outcast-Wesley-Hoedt.html

 

Ah cheers. That clears it up!!

[FarehamSaintJames]

I think some of RM’s subs were done with Tuesday’s game in mind.

There’s a lot of football to play yet. RM tactics aren’t the failure or a negative for the season. You don’t finish in the top four playing shit football. Missed opportunities and calamitous screw ups have been our failing.

[VectisSaint]

29 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Thought he did really well when he came on.

Made one great tackle on the edge of our box, got forwards a lot and then put in a good free kick which led to the corner we scored from.

Made one glaring mistake, but made amends immediately which launched an attack (may have been the Fraser one but not sure). Not his greatest fan but he did actually make a difference when he came on and of course his corner did lead to the goal.

Surprised Stephens stayed on when Bednarek came on, Doddsy called it on the commentary, Stephens had been struggling with what looked like cramp just before the substitution, maybe they thought he would be less damaging in MF rather than CB.

[S-Clarke]

35 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Thought he did really well when he came on.

Made one great tackle on the edge of our box, got forwards a lot and then put in a good free kick which led to the corner we scored from.

Agreed, he was much better than Bree. Our full back setup was odd most of the game, looked unbalanced from the start.

Bree has been pretty crap since he's returned to the side, looks a very limited player. Manning added more balance down that left side and I thought that provided us the opportunity to throw the kitchen sink after they went 2-2.

If I was in charge the back 4 for the remaining games would be - KWP - THB - Bednarek - Manning.  Just stick with that, don't change it, don't piss around with it. Injuries and suspensions may happen for sure, but no more clever shit please.

[SW11_Saint]

2 hours ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Great scenes in our bit of the Northam at the end but on reflection, we won in spite of RM and not because of him. Why we were fannying around for practically all the second half when the players must have known only a win would do, is beyond understanding. 

Shout out to Manning when he came on. Rest of subs made little impact. And what has Edozie got to do to get game time?

Am sure shared elsewhere, but worth watching again anyway (not my footage, just saw it on Twitter)… 

https://x.com/yjw_x/status/1779191985598832851?s=46&t=6zx5qf2H7nuEX1l3EabHng

[Stripey McStripe Shirt]

23 minutes ago, DrSuess1979 said:

Why can we not defend a lead ffs 

We defended the 3-2 lead valiantly for a few seconds. What more do you want?

[trousers]

4 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

Am sure shared elsewhere, but worth watching again anyway (not my footage, just saw it on Twitter)… 

https://x.com/yjw_x/status/1779191985598832851?s=46&t=6zx5qf2H7nuEX1l3EabHng

Love THB's reaction in that video

[The Cat]

24 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Agreed, he was much better than Bree. Our full back setup was odd most of the game, looked unbalanced from the start.

Bree has been pretty crap since he's returned to the side, looks a very limited player. Manning added more balance down that left side and I thought that provided us the opportunity to throw the kitchen sink after they went 2-2.

If I was in charge the back 4 for the remaining games would be - KWP - THB - Bednarek - Manning.  Just stick with that, don't change it, don't piss around with it. Injuries and suspensions may happen for sure, but no more clever shit please.

Bree is ok but nothing more and is quite limited in some areas.

I'm ambivalent towards Stephens or Bednarek as the CB partner for Harwood Bellis.

Thought Stephens had a pretty good game when at CB today. Made some crucial tackles and is much better on the ball than Bednarek.

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Bree is ok but nothing more and is quite limited in some areas.

I'm ambivalent towards Stephens or Bednarek as the CB partner for Harwood Bellis.

Thought Stephens had a pretty good game when at CB today. Made some crucial tackles and is much better on the ball than Bednarek.

Yep, I thought Stephens was good at CB - but I just didn't agree with his move to CM, and Martin seems to always have temptation up his sleeve whenever Stephens is on the pitch to try and be ultra clever with his role. 

I think Bednarek reads the game a little better and is quicker over the ground, Stephens positionally and his sensing of danger has always been a bit suspect. I think Bednarek has been one of the best CB's in the league this year, I thought him and THB formed a really strong understanding - that's why I'd be pushed to partner those two again.

Edited April 13 by S-Clarke

[Secret Site Agent]

3 hours ago, Baird of the land said:

See hoedt is saying there should have been a red card. I think he’s referring to when their defender Porteous was knocked down, did anyone see what actually  occurred?

Hmm. I wonder why he would say that?

[SW11_Saint]

15 minutes ago, trousers said:

Love THB's reaction in that video

Yeah, me too. And Jack. Great moment. Just need 5 more of those!

[SaintBobby]

Well, that was boring…😂

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

3 minutes ago, Secret Site Agent said:

Hmm. I wonder why he would say that?

At the away game when they got a late equaliser, Hoedt's reaction was to run over to the Saints fan's and goad them into a reaction. I thought at the time it was a poor thing to do given he is supposedly a pro football player

[Jack]

Weird game. Fair play to them for keeping going but we’re a fucking shambles at the back and have 6 points from 2 with the help of three handball goals. 
 

I still truly believe that breaking the THB/Janny B partnership is doing more harm than good, even if Captain Jack is putting in reasonable performances, we’re shipping shit loads of goals and look a mess defensively. 
 

Very Saintsy performance, start well but get figured out really quickly and then struggle

[Jack]

15 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Bree is ok but nothing more and is quite limited in some areas.

I'm ambivalent towards Stephens or Bednarek as the CB partner for Harwood Bellis.

Thought Stephens had a pretty good game when at CB today. Made some crucial tackles and is much better on the ball than Bednarek.

For me Stephens has the better highlights reel, lots of last ditch challenges etc, but I think a lot of it only comes from not reading the game as well and less effective positioning, putting himself in that situation in the first place 

[Baird of the land]

34 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Bree is ok but nothing more and is quite limited in some areas.

I'm ambivalent towards Stephens or Bednarek as the CB partner for Harwood Bellis.

Thought Stephens had a pretty good game when at CB today. Made some crucial tackles and is much better on the ball than Bednarek.

Yeah I thought Stephen’s was excellent at CB.

Never been much of a bednarek fan

[waylander]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

We sit in block 32 and we’re saying all the time “He’s off. He’s off”. By the time that the pass came across he was at least two yards offside.

I was also in Block 32 (high up) and he was clearly offside

[SaintBobby]

25 minutes ago, Jack said:

Weird game. Fair play to them for keeping going but we’re a fucking shambles at the back and have 6 points from 2 with the help of three handball goals. 
 

I still truly believe that breaking the THB/Janny B partnership is doing more harm than good, even if Captain Jack is putting in reasonable performances, we’re shipping shit loads of goals and look a mess defensively. 
 

Very Saintsy performance, start well but get figured out really quickly and then struggle

Yep. Worth saying Watford were pretty damned good. Nothing to play for and 2-0 down…they were unlucky not to get something…

[Patrick Bateman]

1 hour ago, Jack said:

Weird game. Fair play to them for keeping going but we’re a fucking shambles at the back and have 6 points from 2 with the help of three handball goals. 
 

I still truly believe that breaking the THB/Janny B partnership is doing more harm than good, even if Captain Jack is putting in reasonable performances, we’re shipping shit loads of goals and look a mess defensively. 
 

Very Saintsy performance, start well but get figured out really quickly and then struggle

Agree with this. We walked away from the ground smug as fk, but it should never have been like that, should've been a 4-0 match, defensive shambles. 

[Roo1976]

3 hours ago, Saint NL said:

The replay was useless because it wasn't from a "straight on" angle.

Initially he looked well off, but on the brief replay it was really close and was actually impossible to tell either way.

Ah, good old fashioned back to basics linesmans call, on or off, no VAR (great), yes or no get on with it, good old days.

[Fabrice29]

28 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Agree with this. We walked away from the ground smug as fk, but it should never have been like that, should've been a 4-0 match, defensive shambles. 

There’s no doubt that we have lacked a killer instinct in matches lately but  on a weekend when everyone at the top dropped points maybe this is a good time to kind of respect the challenge of the league and do away with the ‘should have been 4-0’ mentality. The entitlement stinks and will only set you up for frustration.

[Convict Colony]

10 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

Agreed, he was much better than Bree. Our full back setup was odd most of the game, looked unbalanced from the start.

Bree has been pretty crap since he's returned to the side, looks a very limited player. Manning added more balance down that left side and I thought that provided us the opportunity to throw the kitchen sink after they went 2-2.

If I was in charge the back 4 for the remaining games would be - KWP - THB - Bednarek - Manning.  Just stick with that, don't change it, don't piss around with it. Injuries and suspensions may happen for sure, but no more clever shit please.

Bree is a right back who like KWP has to moonlight on the left as manning has been crap for a lot of the season both defensively and offensively so was dropped. 

Manning did well and provided better balls in the box so should start next game and KWP on the right.

 

[david in sweden]

11 hours ago, markr27 said:

Even if Saints wins all 5 of the games left, they still need Leicester to drop further points to go up automatically.
As it stands, they can only finish 3rd if they do indeed achieve 15/15 (Leeds would be 4th).

Ipswich 98
Leicester 97
Southampton 96
Leeds 93
 

 

When decisions go against us everyone talks about " swings and roundabouts "  but this was a typical example of us

controlling the first half, then letting them get back into the game.  If there is any justice / luck then we deserved this win

if only for " payback" for the Ipswich game where we lost the match in the 99th minute when we might well have won the

game and then cruelly ended up with nothing.

The high point was surely seeing two goals scored by midfielders, who both deserved to be on the scoresheet for their 

efforts throughout the season.   Will Smallbone's  opening goal was classic stuff and inside the first minute.

Flynn Downes' was yet another effort that will go down as a late, late goal that finally got us the win. 

 

To : markr 27 ....The Leeds game may decide the outcome, but looking at your stats,. it seems that beating Leicester will be the key game.

If we can beat them we may still be in with a shout .   I just hope Vardy doesn't play, he has an unenviable record of scoring against us.

 

Edited April 14 by david in sweden
facts