Saints Expelled from Playoffs

[Hopper]

I think it speaks volumes that we’ve not come out and sacked Tonda already. I get that we’re appealing but are we seriously saying that we as a club are happy for him to continue even if we win on appeal.

it doesn’t give me a lot of hope moving forward. SR Need to go and we need to rebuild. As a club we are in tatters.

i don’t care how long it takes or how tough it is. We’ve been at rock bottom before and we came back stronger. We need an ownership group and a manager we can get behind. It’s never felt right since SR came in.

The fact is we’re a failed moneyball experiment and the experiment needs to end.

[Farmer Saint]

The funniest thing is, I still don't see any of this as a big deal. I just don't see the material advantage gained.

[BarryVenisonsHair]

After everything we have endured as Saints fans over the years, this is diabolical. The lack of care or concern for supporters is fucking disgusting .

As a show of good faith, the club should refund all ST holders, members and anyone else who has paid this season, clearly this won't happen but how do they go about rebuilding the trust? 

That being said, I will always follow my club through thick and thin and yes, I will be one of those suckers paying money to the club next season. It must be a mental health condition at this point. 

 

Get Tonda and his team to fuck at the soonest opportunity and get planning for the new season with the deficit. See who wants to stay and who wants to go and get these sorted fast if we want a chance of a semblance of a rebuild. 

[bpsaint]

Like most things in life my gut tells me this thing is going to get worse before it gets better. 

[Stripey McStripe Shirt]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

The funniest thing is, I still don't see any of this as a big deal. I just don't see the material advantage gained.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

It's clearly a big deal. We almost certainly didn't gain a material advantage.

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, Stripey McStripe Shirt said:

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

It's clearly a big deal. We almost certainly didn't gain a material advantage.

I disagree, if B is true, then A surely follows.

This doesn't affect as much as having a player sent off in a game unfairly, or a penalty given that shouldn't, or offside goal.

Edited 15 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[Middlewordie]

7 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Which is absolutely fine if it applies to every club, including the likes of Manchester City and Chelsea.

Agreed, rules only work if the governing authorities can apply deterrent responses to a breach. Today's hearing will test if EFL are more able to do that than PL, who seem to have caved to Man City (but not Everton).

The rest of the PL clubs take the PL money (and City academy products) and stay quiet (including Saints). EFL teams don't have financial incentive to be quiet, in fact quite the opposite - hence the noise.

[Katalinic]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

The funniest thing is, I still don't see any of this as a big deal. I just don't see the material advantage gained.

Far worse goes on in football on and off the pitch - the hypocritical media frenzy is ridiculous. But we still knowingly broke the rules - for what gain we don't really know - if there was no advantage why did we continue to do it, and lets face it, it would have been more than 3 times. 

[CheshireSaint]

This isn't just the potential of 200 million down the swanny. We will lose sponsorship revenue, players that want to play in the PL will now be available at prices far less than we would have been able to command had we been in the PL final withstanding). Season ticket prices / sales will take a hit, along with other things not yet thought of. This could be reaching an effective fine of £300 million+. Ridiculous punishment. We clearly didn't receive an advantage in the first leg v Boro and in the league matches against Oxford and Ipswich, we got 2 points. If a player dives in the box and the subsequent penalty results in a 1-0 win, that's 3 points right there. No fine whatsoever. We did wrong and we should be punished accordingly but potentially £300 million + could kill a club like Southampton.

If it were to happen again (don't tell me people don't commit crimes due to severity of sentence), to a club that doesn't make the playoffs, they will need to be punished at least to the severity of this example. If that's Oxford for instance (or probably 80 other clubs in the league), then that is a death sentence. To a club and all local jobs as a result of that club going under. It's a pathetic punishment. Fine Saints 5 million say, with an additional 10 million IF they go up. That's still setting an example, but a workable one at least. 

[SNSUN]

The Beeb has a reaction thread running about this now. 

1.  

   08:12

   Image source,Getty Images

   Image caption,

   "There is every opportunity for arguments to sway a panel today" - Trevor Watkins

   Former AFC Bournemouth chairman and sports lawyer Trevor Watkins has just told BBC Radio Solent: "We look at this and think 'my goodness how on earth has it happened?' ...there's a lot of detail to come out in due course.

   "It will be argued by lawyers today, we'll see what the result it - from my perspective it's unprecedented, it's a new rule. I think there is every opportunity for arguments to sway a panel today."

   He added: "The fans that go to every game will be so sad today... but there is hope and there will be a future and there will be games next season... where and when remains to be decided."

    

   Share

2. David Bernstein surprised at 'disproportionate punishment'published at 07:58

   07:58

   Image source,Getty Images

   Image caption,

   Bernstein also pointed out Southampton failed to win any of the games they spied on

   Former FA chairman and Manchester City chief David Bernstein said he was "really surprised" and "taken aback by the severity of this punishment".

   Speaking on the Today programme, Bernstein said: "It was clear what they did, it was amateurish... it was stupid but I think this is a disproportionate punishment.

   "Promotion to the Premier League, other than affecting the whole history of the club and the future of the club, is worth £200-250m, a huge amount of money.

   "This offence seems to be a young man hiding behind a tree... it's not a James Bond thing... of the three matches that were spied upon, Southampton didn't win any of them.

   "It was a really stupid thing to do."

[Polaroid Saint]

It sorta feels like a straight red for a headbutt, when the other player has gone down clutching his face and rolling around in 'agony', while the opposing team gather round the ref and aggressive demand a sending off...

...only for the replay to show that it was something of nothing and they barely touched eyebrows.

Hopefully we will see some kinda of equivalent review and rescinding of this 'straight red' at some point.

[LiberalCommunist]

Yeah, what advantage? The three teams the charges relate to mustered one win, and not a particularly good performance.

I feel angry* and disappointed* this morning. Such a let down. But I'd like to hear of other rule breaks, this would be a great time for a scorned whistle blower of another championship club to weigh in. They are are out there. So just for the carnage sake, lets spill the can of worms and smear it everywhere. 

Oh, perhaps I've progressed to the third stage, vengeance*...

 

[sadoldgit]

6 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

The funniest thing is, I still don't see any of this as a big deal. I just don't see the material advantage gained.

Me neither, but Gibson managed to make it all about ethics and turned it into a big deal. The ironic thing is the word “ethics” has no place in modern professional football.

[S-Clarke]

Slept on it and actually feel worse about it all this morning. Hearing us all over the morning news and on the radio for all the wrong reasons is so unfair on us fans. I also feel really bad for Hull City, a genuinely amazing achievement for them to reach the final after last season and their 'sanctions' - but they're being punished and this will undoubtably impact their buildup.

And the lack of any communication from the club, the next fucking morning, shows that they are also handling this situation incredibly badly. Is there anything they can do right? Ok, we're going to appeal so it may change (It won't), but fuck me...at least put out a holding statement, at least try to appease the fanbase you're going to lose in droves.

They can't do a fucking thing right at any level, at any time. They'd even fail in non-league, I'm sure of it. Incompetent morons, the lot of them.

[SNSUN]

Just now, CheshireSaint said:

This isn't just the potential of 200 million down the swanny. We will lose sponsorship revenue, players that want to play in the PL will now be available at prices far less than we would have been able to command had we been in the PL final withstanding). Season ticket prices / sales will take a hit, along with other things not yet thought of. This could be reaching an effective fine of £300 million+. Ridiculous punishment. We clearly didn't receive an advantage in the first leg v Boro and in the league matches against Oxford and Ipswich, we got 2 points. If a player dives in the box and the subsequent penalty results in a 1-0 win, that's 3 points right there. No fine whatsoever. We did wrong and we should be punished accordingly but potentially £300 million + could kill a club like Southampton.

If it were to happen again (don't tell me people don't commit crimes due to severity of sentence), to a club that doesn't make the playoffs, they will need to be punished at least to the severity of this example. If that's Oxford for instance (or probably 80 other clubs in the league), then that is a death sentence. To a club and all local jobs as a result of that club going under. It's a pathetic punishment. Fine Saints 5 million say, with an additional 10 million IF they go up. That's still setting an example, but a workable one at least. 

Unless it's not been announced or I didn't spot it, I believe we didn't get a fine because we are a club with money. That's probably why Boro were pushing for sporting sanctions as a punishment.

I will be interested to see how the appeal goes. 

[die Mannyschaft]

7 minutes ago, Hopper said:

I think it speaks volumes that we’ve not come out and sacked Tonda already. I get that we’re appealing but are we seriously saying that we as a club are happy for him to continue even if we win on appeal.

it doesn’t give me a lot of hope moving forward. SR Need to go and we need to rebuild. As a club we are in tatters.

i don’t care how long it takes or how tough it is. We’ve been at rock bottom before and we came back stronger. We need an ownership group and a manager we can get behind. It’s never felt right since SR came in.

The fact is we’re a failed moneyball experiment and the experiment needs to end.

Club are not fit to run football club, legal will only achive another points deduction or fine for being idiots and appealing. Don't they realise that Boro are on the EFL board !

[MarkSFC]

People saying the "club cheated". This is not quite accurate from what we currently know. INDIVIDUALS within the organisation (hopefully) took it upon themselves, ie. Eckert and members of his team, to go and break the rules, unwittingly, but ultimately against the spirit of the game (and sport) and rules laid down. 
The CLUB need to take decisive action internally and publicly to detach these actions as much as is possible from the culture of the club, and publicly name shame and dismiss the culprits, whilst also confirming that such behaviour is 100% against the culture of our club and will not be tolerated ever. If the hierarchy cannot or do not do this they must also sell up and **** off.

[Cabrone]

SR need to go, it's been generally downhill ever since they arrived and this is the point of no return.

Generally poor manager appointments, plenty of self aggrandizing word salad and now this, a total failure to understand the basic rules of the league they make their living in.

I think this has really knocked the stuffing out of the fan base. The smell is too bad now.

[saintant]

6 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Only thing I will say is that the argument of "they won't overturn it now, it's too disruptive etc" holds no weight. Throwing us out when we'd sold out, 4 days to the game, was disruptive and they still did it. 

You can argue that we have no chance based on what we did etc but to say they won't do it purely because it's too much hassle is wrong.

They've done their job which was to give the punishment that the press, journos and pundits were clamouring for orchestrated by Steve Gibson.  The hard part for them is done and there'll be no going back.

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

Slept on it and actually feel worse about it all this morning. Hearing us all over the morning news and on the radio for all the wrong reasons is so unfair on us fans. I also feel really bad for Hull City, a genuinely amazing achievement for them to reach the final after last season and their 'sanctions' - but they're being punished and this will undoubtably impact their buildup.

And the lack of any communication from the club, the next fucking morning, shows that they are also handling this situation incredibly badly. Is there anything they can do right? Ok, we're going to appeal so it may change (It won't), but fuck me...at least put out a holding statement, at least try to appease the fanbase you're going to lose in droves.

They can't do a fucking thing right at any level, at any time. They'd even fail in non-league, I'm sure of it. Incompetent morons, the lot of them.

You would have thought that when Dragan got more 'hands on' it would get better, or after the 'lessons were learned' after the embarrassment of last season's 12 points it would get better.

Then they represent this.

Just terrible terrible owners. They have been a skid mark on this club

[TwoPints]

8 hours ago, CanadaSaint said:

Given the damage that will result from this, and we're just starting to imagine it, I don't think the club has any choice but to exhaust all avenues of appeal, including the courts. This could go on for quite a while, but what is there to lose?

They'd need to take legal action pretty quickly to get the final postponed at the very least. Once it's done, there's no coming back from that. 

[obelisk]

26 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

One thing you can say is no one is going to do this again. From the EFL's point of view that's mission accomplished.

I wouldn't be so sure. There'll be redoubled efforts to not get caught for sure but it'd be interesting to see what draconian penalty might be handed down in future to match expulsion from the Championship play-off final.

[trousers]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

The players won't be sitting down analysing the footage of previous games so if the coaching team say "they set up like this, so we need to counter them by doing this" the players will just listen.

Yep... Footballers aren't, in general, the brightest bunch, so it's plausible they took this intel at face value rather than being naturally inquisitive as to where this 'magic' new data came from. If my boss suddenly started giving me 'inside info' on our competitors, I'd certainly be curious as to how he obtained it...

Edited 15 hours ago by trousers

[SNSUN]

Harry Redknapp: 'I didn't see that coming'published at 08:30

08:30

Image source,Getty Images

Former Southampton boss Harry Redknapp said: "I think it's very harsh, I didn't see that coming - I thought they would get a heavy fine.

"[What they have done] is so stupid it's beyond belief."

Speaking to BBC Radio Solent he added: "What are you learning by someone filming a bit of training? What are you learning by watching them train for an hour? ...it was a ridiculous thing to do.

"They have made a big, big error and they have been severely punished they really have.

"I don't know how it is going to pan out... we certainly haven't heard the last of it... it's a crazy situation... I thought they would get a massive fine but to be thrown out the play-off final is really very severe."

[Farmer Saint]

12 minutes ago, Katalinic said:

Far worse goes on in football on and off the pitch - the hypocritical media frenzy is ridiculous. But we still knowingly broke the rules - for what gain we don't really know - if there was no advantage why did we continue to do it, and lets face it, it would have been more than 3 times. 

But did we knowingly break the rules, it seems maybe we didn't - through complete ignorance - but maybe not knowingly broke them.

[sledger]

and yet still the so called big clubs kick the cheating can down the road,completely sick of pro football in this country.Didnt Chelsea get a 10 million fine for far worse which they gleefully excepted.

[EBS1980]

I still question, if this all happened in Dec what punishment would have been given then? I’m sure it would have been a fine and points deduction. 
 

why just because one of them was a play off game should you get kicked out? Would they have kicked you out the league in Dec, no.

[LegalEagle]

3 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

Harry Redknapp: 'I didn't see that coming'published at 08:30

08:30

Image source,Getty Images

Former Southampton boss Harry Redknapp said: "I think it's very harsh, I didn't see that coming - I thought they would get a heavy fine.

"[What they have done] is so stupid it's beyond belief."

Speaking to BBC Radio Solent he added: "What are you learning by someone filming a bit of training? What are you learning by watching them train for an hour? ...it was a ridiculous thing to do.

"They have made a big, big error and they have been severely punished they really have.

"I don't know how it is going to pan out... we certainly haven't heard the last of it... it's a crazy situation... I thought they would get a massive fine but to be thrown out the play-off final is really very severe."

I always liked old Saggy Chops ….. 

[Grim Reaper]

Can someone tell me how an EFL independent review panel that has had involvement from the ceo of Middlesbrough and his work colleagues can be be regarded as independent ?

[SNSUN]

55 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Even if we were reinstated today I’d have no intention of going to Wembley now.

I'd go, but only to support the players who did nothing wrong (that we know of) through this. Winning promotion though - that would be a hard one to celebrate now.

[SaintLondon]

Well we all had fond memories of League 1, right...? RIGHT?

[scumbag]

We exposed ourselves to the stupidity and hysteria of the modern age, and have paid the price. This became a de facto court of morals via a relentless media onslaught, which in conjunction with a rule that permitted complete discretion regarding sanctions, put us in a really dangerous spot. 

[SNSUN]

Just now, LegalEagle said:

I always liked old Saggy Chops ….. 

Get him on the appeal board.

[Lighthouse]

Just now, EBS1980 said:

I still question, if this all happened in Dec what punishment would have been given then? I’m sure it would have been a fine and points deduction. 
 

why just because one of them was a play off game should you get kicked out? Would they have kicked you out the league in Dec, no.

Because it's a much more important game and impossible to give a points deduction.

[benjii]

44 minutes ago, trousers said:

Ironically, if Millwall had lost to Middlesbrough in April, rather than beaten them, that points swing would mean that Millwall would now be in the final... 

Perverse.

[sadoldgit]

Who would have thought that a bloke with an iPhone and a dodgy pair of jeans a good quarter of a mile away from a bunch of footballers could cause so much grief?

[trousers]

1 hour ago, Barry the Badger said:

Everybody involved needs to go. Clean slate. Time for SR to sell up.

Hand the club back to Katharina... Bring back Cortese and Pochetino, and go again... 

(I must stop eating large quantities of cheese before going to bed... 😂)

Edited 15 hours ago by trousers

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, EBS1980 said:

I still question, if this all happened in Dec what punishment would have been given then? I’m sure it would have been a fine and points deduction. 
 

why just because one of them was a play off game should you get kicked out? Would they have kicked you out the league in Dec, no.

I think this is where the EFL have tied themselves up in knots a bit.

One angle is that this is a 'cup competition', but the other angle - and the fair angle - is that this is a continuation of the normal league season, so any punishment should be proportionate across both scenarios.

By treating this instance in the same way as Swindon in a cup competition, they have muddied the waters by also including 'breaches' in regular season league games in the charges. So are we either being pushed in the context of a cup competition, or punished for the league context? It's all very confusing and I think they've made this up as they've gone along.

[John Boy Saint]

35 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

1) Being excluded frm a match we could have lost is not "one of the harshest penalties ever".......

Major Match-Fixing & Corruption

• Juventus (2006): Following the Calciopoli match-fixing scandal, Juventus were stripped of two Serie A titles, relegated to Serie B, and initially hit with a massive 30-point deduction (later reduced to 9 points).
• AC Milan, Lazio, Fiorentina (2006): Also implicated in Calciopoli, these clubs avoided relegation but began the following Serie A season with severe point deductions (e.g., Milan with -8 points, Fiorentina with -15).
• Marseille (1993): Stripped of their 1992-93 French league title and relegated to Ligue 2 after their president was involved in a domestic match-fixing and bribery scandal. [1, 2, 3]

 

Financial Implosions & Administration

• Rangers (2012): Due to mounting debts and financial mismanagement, the Scottish giants entered liquidation. Their corporate entity was forced to restart in the Scottish Fourth Tier (Third Division), forcing a long climb back to the top flight.
• Luton Town (2008): Handed an unprecedented 30-point deduction in English League Two due to financial irregularities and entering administration, making an immediate relegation inevitable.
• Derby County (2021): Docked a combined 21 points in the Championship (12 for entering administration, 9 for financial breaches) under manager Wayne Rooney, which ultimately sealed their relegation.
• Lyon (2025): Officially relegated from Ligue 1 down to Ligue 2 by France's football financial watchdog (DNCG) due to massive, unsustainable club debts. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

 

Financial Fair Play (FFP) and PSR Breaches

• Paris Saint-Germain (2022): Handed a massive €65 million fine by UEFA for failing to meet break-even financial requirements.
• Chelsea (2025): Fined €31 million by UEFA for breaches of squad cost rules and accounting violations during the Roman Abramovich era. The club previously received a record-setting £10.75m fine and a transfer ban from the Premier League in 2026 for secret agent payments.
• Everton (2023): Deducted 10 points initially for a breach of the Premier League's Profitability and Sustainability Rules (PSR)—the largest points penalty in Premier League history. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]

2 ) I can cope with this situation.......

 

 

 

 

however if Bazunu is our #1 keeper next season, I'm through with this club.

You’ve forgotten that we have form with the EFL - roll the clock back to 2009 when we were on the edge of the abyss financially. Rupert Lowe tried to use a variation of what Derby had done a couple of seasons previously in getting out of sanctions for financial mismanagement via loophole, which like Leeds spying the EFL had closed tight along with many of its “get out of jail” tendrils. Saints thought they were being clever and came unstuck with the EFL where the punishment was us being relegated to league one with a points deduction, but if we were relegated naturally from the Championship then we would start the season in League 1 with a full ten point deduction., the balance of the points deduction needed to relegate us if we were just above the drop zone. 
 

If the story is true about the jolly japes internally about spying earlier in the season, it’s amazing no one put their hand up to say “you do know if we get caught doing this - we are right in the s**t” - maybe someone did and the thought was “we’ll get a £2m fine at worst - which is mere dust when the reward is potentially £200m”. 
The EFL are very much “it’s my ball and I’m going home for tea” - just look at Sheffield Weds and Luton, point deduction on point deduction for financial misdemeanours from the outside you do think - why are you still kicking them whilst they are on the floor. 
 

Dont be surprised if we are still out of Saturday and that points deduction is doubled after today’s appeal. 

 

[Lighthouse]

1 minute ago, sadoldgit said:

Who would have thought that a bloke with an iPhone and a dodgy pair of jeans a good quarter of a mile away from a bunch of footballers could cause so much grief?

I would have.

[RedArmy]

Has Parsons been sacked yet? 
 

I want him out of this club TODAY. 
 

Loose lips sink ships. 

[S-Clarke]

Just now, RedArmy said:

Has Parsons been sacked yet? 
 

I want him out of this club TODAY. 
 

Loose lips sink ships. 

Just checked the OS.

Ah, it's ok. We're still preparing for the play off final. I must have dreamt this.

Fucking wankers.

[rallyboy]

Just to clarify, we are guilty of observing outside the allowed time frame, not 'spying'.

When Middlesborough's PR campaign labelled and promoted the incident as Spygate and falsely told everyone that our top analyst was caught inside their training camp using high tech espionage equipment, we lost control of the narrative.

Our other offence was not acting with good faith - yep, guilty your honour.

But the next time a player feigns injury, or a club fails to turn the heating on in the away dressing room or makes a team walk up the road from their coach, will they face relegation and their opposition be promoted? No, that would be insane.

#consistency

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Just now, RedArmy said:

Has Parsons been sacked yet? 
 

I want him out of this club TODAY. 
 

Loose lips sink ships. 

Doubtful, they can't even get a simple message up on the website to acknowledge the outcome. Let alone apologise / take action / etc.

[warsash saint]

Just made a rough total & reckon son & myself have spent over £3000 this season on season tickets, over 20 away games, travel - they doesn't include all the money i have put behind the Saints bars as well ... what a monumental waste of f*cking money !!

[beatlesaint]

Just looking beyond the impact on Southampton for a second -

Apologies if already mentioned but had the 14 day rule not changed the hearing would have been after the Play-Off Final.

Had we lost to Hull the sanctions would have been applied based on SFC being a Championship club.

Had we beaten Hull and they had then “expelled” Southampton it would have seen Hull City promoted.

So, Middlesbrough rock up at Wembley and beat Hull.

Have Hull City then not got a case to put to the EFL, if not over the original hearing but certainly over the less than 24 hours for Southampton’s appeal to be heard.

The EFL are doing everything they can to make sure their showcase final goes ahead, however difficult or wrongly.

The whole process stinks to high heaven.

[SNSUN]

4 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Who would have thought that a bloke with an iPhone and a dodgy pair of jeans a good quarter of a mile away from a bunch of footballers could cause so much grief?

What is the world coming to when you can't spy and film training sessions. What's next - banning spying and filming on ladies locker rooms? Madness. 

[trousers]

1 hour ago, Fabrice29 said:

Are you under the impression we’re only just hiring a lawyer?

No. I'm under the impression that the lawyer(s) we've hired might not be the best available. Gibson 'went large' by hiring "one of the best" sports lawyers in the land, we (seemingly) didn't....

[Turkish]

The rainbow saints have spoken!

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/26122693.rainbow-saints-demand-answers-playoff-expulsion/?fbclid=IwZnRzaAR6ReJleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZAo2NjI4NTY4Mzc5AAEeYrG4KLW1EZH4kVd2tzMon7O-cJ9xqW9_MVrwC9DlO3CbLHRN4RwGzzKzjiE_aem_zBAtXferEUJc0kow8PX1Kw
 

🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈

[Badger]

5 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

Has Parsons been sacked yet? 
 

I want him out of this club TODAY. 
 

Loose lips sink ships. 

Can’t help thinking that whatever their other failings, Cortese or Rupert would have handled this episode better. 
 

Assuming the story of Parsons chat with Gibson is true. 

Edited 15 hours ago by Badger