Saints Vs Villa - Match Thread

[austsaint]

Just now, Chez said:

and maybe he will shine and then want ti stay. Could be a silver lining...maybe.

Was thinking the same.  Just looks like a player (Jankewitz) we need to keep, even if midfield looks strong.

[S-Clarke]

Just now, trousers said:

Why do the likes of Mourhino, Klopp and Nuno do it then? 

Because they're richer than Ralph.

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

I genuinely don't see the point in football when the game is no longer being decided inside the ground. Might as well ask Mike Dean what he'd like the score to be before the game & just go with that.

Edited 30 January, 2021 by Ivan Katalinic's 'tache

[Micky]

22 minutes ago, CWD said:

VAR shitshow aside, I'm concerned by how toothless we are. The amount of times we are running forward in a promising looking attack, only for the ball to end up with Stephens is infuriating.

We can sit and blame the officials and VAR all we like, but you're right we need to be much more positive going forwards. But we're not, we stop, mess about in midfield and invariably all of our possession comes to nothing.   I thought Redmond was meant to be a tricky wide player.   He gets the ball and stands still,  when was the last time you saw him try to take on his man, or knock it past him and run.  His final ball in is usually crap as well,  and as we saw tonight,  when it does fall to him in the box he'll scuff it or blaze it over. 

Yes VAR and the officials did us no favors tonight but we were pretty woeful in the final third tonight. 

Edited 30 January, 2021 by Micky

[VictiAbNonem]

6 minutes ago, austsaint said:

Really good summary - amidst the bad luck, shocking officiating and Grealish brilliance, Saints second half performance was pretty damn good and on just about any other night would have been rewarded with a point or three.   Diallo was strangely off the pace and we looked better when JWP returned to midfield.  Romeu was great, especially in the first 60 minutes.   Redmond was frustrating, while Ings showed class and commitment, and clearly should have been on the score sheet.   Really liked the cameo of Jankewitz and lets hope there are more opportunities to come.  Really missed KWP tonight.

Thanks, and I agree with all you've added.

I also want mention how impressed I was with Djenepo when he came on. He didn't do a great deal of defending, but he was involved in a lot of our attacking play.

I think what that shows is the importance of Bertrand to our balance. We can play Djenepo at right back and still look pretty solid at the back.

[danjosaint]

Shit defending cost us that,  bednerek and Stephens sucked towards ball, jwp caught flat footed and 5yds off Grealish, I can also see Ralph saying fuck it, we need big overhaul, upgrade on Stephens, Walcott, Redmond, Djnepo, Mccarthy , we obviously won't get that due to previous shit transfer debacles that we will aimlessly float around 10-14th place, really pissed of tonight 

Edited 30 January, 2021 by danjosaint

[Toadhall Saint]

16 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Ralph looks pissed off said he'd like to bring in players but no money available, I can see him eventually saying fuck it 

Why - how many other pl teams have brought players in? He is a realist no more no less

[davefizzy14]

6 minutes ago, austsaint said:

Was thinking the same.  Just looks like a player (Jankewitz) we need to keep, even if midfield looks strong.

He looks the real deal does Alex Jankewitz 

Edited 30 January, 2021 by davefizzy14

[Micky]

3 minutes ago, Ivan Katalinic's 'tache said:

I genuinely don't see the point in football when the game is no longer being decided inside the ground. Might as well ask Mike Dean what he'd like the score to be before the game & just go with that.

If it was decided in the ground tonight the score would've been the same,  the referee never gave the penalty, and the linesman flagged for the second one. 

[Toadhall Saint]

1 minute ago, danjosaint said:

Shit defending cost us that,  bednerek and Stephens sucked towards ball, jwp caught flat footed and 5yds off Grealish, I can also see Ralph saying fuck it, we need big overhaul, upgrade on Stephens, Walcott, Djnepo, Mccarthy , we obviously won't get that due to previous shit transfer debacles that we will aimlessly float around 10-14th place, really pissed of tonight 

Golden boy Diallo let’s Barkley run by him in to the box - in fact both him and Romeu were nowhere the midfield - back four where ok position wise.

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

Just now, danjosaint said:

Shit defending cost us that,  bednerek and Stephens sucked towards ball, jwp caught flat footed and 5yds off Grealish, I can also see Ralph saying fuck it, we need big overhaul, upgrade on Stephens, Walcott, Djnepo, Mccarthy , we obviously won't get that due to previous shit transfer debacles that we will aimlessly float around 10-14th place, really pissed of tonight 

Exactly this. The season has gone to shit. Carry on like this and we'll struggle to finish above 15th. With teams like Burnley and Newcastle (even Sheff Utd & WBA) picking up points now, the gap we'd built up is being slowly eroded. Relegation form at the moment.

Where the f*** are our next points going to come from? 

 

[SaveloyMush]

5 minutes ago, Micky said:

We can sit and blame the officials and VAR all we like, but you're right we need to be much more positive going forwards. But we're not, we stop, mess about in midfield and invariably all of our possession comes to nothing.   I thought Redmond was meant to be a tricky wide player.   He gets the ball and stands still,  when was the last time you saw him try to take on his man, or knock it past him and run.  His final ball in is usually crap as well,  and as we saw tonight,  when it does fall to him in the box he'll scuff it or blaze it over. 

Yes VAR and the officials did us no favors tonight but we were pretty woeful in the final third tonight. 

Redmond utter fucking gash, as usual.

Fuck him off to Eastleigh.

[beatlesaint]

3 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Golden boy Diallo let’s Barkley run by him in to the box - in fact both him and Romeu were nowhere the midfield - back four where ok position wise.

I agree, I thought Diallo let him go to be honest, one minute he was with Barkley, the next, when it mattered, he wasn’t.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

9 minutes ago, Micky said:

We can sit and blame the officials and VAR all we like, but you're right we need to be much more positive going forwards. But we're not, we stop, mess about in midfield and invariably all of our possession comes to nothing.   I thought Redmond was meant to be a tricky wide player.   He gets the ball and stands still,  when was the last time you saw him try to take on his man, or knock it past him and run.  His final ball in is usually crap as well,  and as we saw tonight,  when it does fall to him in the box he'll scuff it or blaze it over. 

Yes VAR and the officials did us no favors tonight but we were pretty woeful in the final third tonight. 

So true. Redmond is a busted flush at present

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

So true. Redmond is a busted flush at present

He just runs into blind allys doing very little. It's been his game since he's been here to be honest.

Goes backwards more than he goes forwards.

He had a little purple patch during Mark Hughes time and at the start of Ralphs tenure, but he's gone back to sort now.

Edited 30 January, 2021 by S-Clarke

[trousers]

9 minutes ago, Micky said:

If it was decided in the ground tonight the score would've been the same,  the referee never gave the penalty, and the linesman flagged for the second one. 

Maybe the officials in the stadium have their decisions influenced, (subconsciously or otherwise) by knowing that they've got VAR to back them up or correct them if they make the wrong decision. In other words, maybe the ref would have given the penalty if he knew it wasn't going to be scrutinized and maybe the lino wouldn't have given the offside if he knew VAR wasn't lurking in the background. Yes, I know that can work both ways but it would surprise me if officials in the stadium aren't influenced into potentially making different decision when they know VAR is lurking. 

Edited 30 January, 2021 by trousers

[Lord Duckhunter]

I’ve no problem with the offside, because he was offside. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve read people on here bemoaning tight offsides and calling for close ones to stay onfield. Well,the Lino gave it and VAR backed it up. 
 

The handball however, was shocking. Shocking the ref didn’t give it in real time, and shocking VAR didn’t. 
 

Overall we were what we are. Average mid table side that gets beat if we don’t take our chances, managed by a guy a class above most of the players. Players are honest pros doing their best, so I don’t understand some of the clog they get after a defeat like this. 

[danjosaint]

3 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Golden boy Diallo let’s Barkley run by him in to the box - in fact both him and Romeu were nowhere the midfield - back four where ok position wise.

What a crock of shit, yes Barclays run should of been tracked, Romeu was possibly our best player out there,  but back 4 were by far in ok position wise, the 2 cbs were sucked towards ball and infact nowhere near the villa players,  once again an opposing team has so much space in the box, jwp was a mile off Grealish , it wouldn't of happened if kwp was playing 

 

[trousers]

4 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I’ve no problem with the offside, because he was offside. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve read people on here bemoaning tight offsides and calling for close ones to stay onfield. Well,the Lino gave it and VAR backed it up. 

I'd be inclined to agree with you if they hadn't used a video still from after the ball had been kicked to do their line drawing...

Edited 30 January, 2021 by trousers

[Lighthouse]

Just seen the penalty claim on MotD. How in the name of Jason and the Argonauts was that not given?!

[Dark Munster]

Even the Villa fans agree with us.

[beatlesaint]

Just now, Lighthouse said:

Just seen the penalty claim on MotD. How in the name of Jason and the Argonauts was that not given?!

Two words - Mike Dean

[obelisk]

I can understand it if no handball is given when the ball diverts wildly off a thigh or something before hitting the hand/arm in a natural position. But are we really to understand that the rule now is it's ok if a net-bound shot tickles a follicle on the way to hitting an outstretched arm that is moving towards the ball? If so then the game is up.

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

I'd be inclined to agree with you if they'd hadn't used a video still from after the ball had been kicked to do their line drawing...

As someone pointed out earlier, var didn’t chalk the goal off, it just confirmed the linos d3cision. No var, it’d still be no goal. 

[S-Clarke]

Just now, Lighthouse said:

Just seen the penalty claim on MotD. How in the name of Jason and the Argonauts was that not given?!

I honestly thought the delay over it was them deciding if he'd denied a clear goal...(so red card or not). I assumed the pen was a given, but obviously not. It is more insane every time you see it really. I'm struggling to see how it hits his thigh either. Weird one.

One of those shitty things though. Sometimes you get them, sometimes you don't. 

[trousers]

Just now, beatlesaint said:

Two words - Mike Dean

I can think of a more fitting couple of words...

[beatlesaint]

Just now, S-Clarke said:

I honestly thought the delay over it was them deciding if he'd denied a clear goal...(so red card or not). I assumed the pen was a given, but obviously not. It is more insane every time you see it really. I'm struggling to see how it hits his thigh either. Weird one.

One of those shitty things though. Sometimes you get them, sometimes you don't. 

You know you’ve been screwed over when even Jamie Carragher can’t see the ball hit the defenders thigh first.

[Dark Munster]

Just now, S-Clarke said:

I honestly thought the delay over it was them deciding if he'd denied a clear goal...(so red card or not). I assumed the pen was a given, but obviously not. It is more insane every time you see it really. I'm struggling to see how it hits his thigh either. Weird one.

One of those shitty things though. Sometimes you get them, sometimes you don't. 

True, but three diabolical decisions in one match goes well beyond "sometimes you get them, sometimes you don't".

[badgerx16]

How poorly is Valery rated that he is effectively 3rd choice RB behind Prowsey and Djenepo ?

[Teddeer]

Right, lets be clear, that was a stonewall penalty. The reason it was stonewall is because, as Armstrong shot, Cash had already extended his left arm with the obvious intent of trying to block the ball. The fact that it brushed his thigh is not relevant. His intent was clearly to use his left arm to block the ball. Had he kept his arm by his side it might have been different but he set out to use his arm to block the ball and the fact that it hit his thigh then his arm should not affect the fact that it was handball and we should have been awarded a penalty.

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Dark Munster said:

True, but three diabolical decisions in one match goes well beyond "sometimes you get them, sometimes you don't".

What was the third one? The 'foul' on their keeper by Romeu?

I'd have been surprised to get that in any situation, goal keeper protection and all that! 

[trousers]

5 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

As someone pointed out earlier, var didn’t chalk the goal off, it just confirmed the linos d3cision. No var, it’d still be no goal. 

How can it confirm the Lino's decision if the wrong snapshot of the incident is used?

And who's to say the lino would have given it if, in the back of his mind, he knew that VAR wasn't being used? He *may* have given the benefit of the doubt to the attacker in that scenario. Truth is, we'll never know, but either way, the whole thing is thrown into disrepute when the incorrect snapshot is used by VAR.

Edited 30 January, 2021 by trousers

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

How poorly is Valery rated that he is effectively 3rd choice RB behind Prowsey and Djenepo ?

That sub said it all for me....Moussa at RB rather than Valery.

Ralph has wanted rid for a while I think, when we have a fit squad he's not even near the bench.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Like everyone else I am angry tonight but let’s not the injustice of the decisions that went against us cloud some of our own inadequacies. Redmond for me has been poor for 18 months. He simply isn’t good enough. Adams is not a PL striker, he’s too one footed, great heart, works hard but not quite there which is a shame. Armstrong too in and out. Does some good stuff then fades. Djenepo again inconsistent and not sure he is PL standard. I could go on and even include Ings who since the debate about his new contract surfaced has been distinctly under par. I think we are a well run club and I am impressed with Martin Semmens interviews because he actually answers the questions but while we continue to watch the pennies we will have to accept avoiding relegation is our target. 
We need investment to compete and we need vision. We have the latter with Ralph but not the former with Gao. 

[beatlesaint]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

What was the third one? The 'foul' on their keeper by Romeu?

I'd have been surprised to get that in any situation, goal keeper protection and all that! 

Yeah but it doesn’t disguise the fact Romeu didn’t touch him, had it gone to VAR I’m sure we........oh 😡

[trousers]

1 minute ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Like everyone else I am angry tonight but let’s not the injustice of the decisions that went against us cloud some of our own inadequacies.

I don't see anyone be doing that to be fair. We were poor and the officials were poor. Both influenced the result. 

Edited 30 January, 2021 by trousers

[Sheaf Saint]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

What was the third one? The 'foul' on their keeper by Romeu?

I'd have been surprised to get that in any situation, goal keeper protection and all that! 

Maybe the yellow card for JWP. It was quite clearly our throw, Targett took it quickly before the lino had even flagged, JWP rightly tried to stop it because it quite blatantly came off Targett and should have been our throw. And he gets a yellow for it. Ridiculous.

[Micky]

8 minutes ago, trousers said:

Maybe the officials in the stadium have their decisions influenced, (subconsciously or otherwise) by knowing that they've got VAR to back them up or correct them if they make the wrong decision. In other words, maybe the ref would have given the penalty if he knew it wasn't going to be scrutinized and maybe the lino wouldn't have given the offside if he knew VAR wasn't lurking in the background. Yes, I know that can work both ways but it would surprise me if officials in the stadium aren't influenced into potentially making different decision when they know VAR is lurking. 

Agree with you to a certain extent there.  We actually got unlucky because immediately after the handball the ball went out of play,  and so the referee knew he didn't have to make a decision about the penalty straight away.  Had the ball stayed in he would've had to make a decision,  had he given a penalty (which I think is probably quite likely), how many on field refs have been overruled by VAR?

[John Boy Saint]

A cynic would say that was PGMOL “apologising” for the Man City fiasco.

it is what it is.

we are creating chances just seem to be so wasteful with them - this Weekend Midweek championship style game frequency is costing us no chance of recovery especially as we can’t use the kit at Staplewood.  

[Vancouver Saint]

9 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I’ve no problem with the offside, because he was offside. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve read people on here bemoaning tight offsides and calling for close ones to stay onfield. Well,the Lino gave it and VAR backed it up. 

Don't often disagree with you m'lud but I do here. 'Too close to call' should err in favour of the attacking side. The linesman was a tosser all night (he called Ings offside when he was barged offside beforehand) - and was too quick and assertive to flag offside for that last action. It was clearly marginal and left to interpretation - with the tipping point being 'let's not embarrass / undermine the official on the pitch' being the likely determinant again. It's not VAR itself - it's the interpreters that are still making human errors.

[Katalinic]

3 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

We need investment to compete and we need vision. We have the latter with Ralph but not the former with Gao. 

Great idea, all we need is someone with a few billion who is happy to throw away a couple of hundred million and who wants to buy us....oh.

[Toadhall Saint]

13 minutes ago, danjosaint said:

What a crock of shit, yes Barclays run should of been tracked, Romeu was possibly our best player out there,  but back 4 were by far in ok position wise, the 2 cbs were sucked towards ball and infact nowhere near the villa players,  once again an opposing team has so much space in the box, jwp was a mile off Grealish , it wouldn't of happened if kwp was playing 

 

Think you need to look at it again - me should be picking up the runs of their Mf end if. Crock of shit 😂

[Jonnyboy]

47 minutes ago, Chez said:

hopefully all the shit decisions will be used up by the time we play Wolves in the FA cup. Win that competition and I wont give a fuck about tonight or any bad decision this season.

No offence but dream on. 

[Jimmy_D]

Been a while since I've been that pissed off after the game.

Worst officiating for while there. Villa must be wondering how they've got away with that. Utter shambles.

Never mind that though, I nearly put my remote through the TV when the commentator 'joked' that Ings wouldn't have been offside if he hadn't had a black armband on.

How much of an oblivious insensitive **** do you have to be to think that's something that's worth broadcasting to the World?

[Lord Duckhunter]

6 minutes ago, trousers said:

How can it confirm the Lino's decision if the wrong snapshot of the incident is used?

And who's to say the lino would have given it if, in the back of his mind, he knew that VAR wasn't being used? He *may* have given the benefit of the doubt to the attacker in that scenario. Truth is, we'll never know, but either way, the whole thing is thrown into disrepute when the incorrect snapshot is used by VAR.

Linos are told to only flag only if they’re sure it’s offside, otherwise leave it down. He’d be in the shite if he’d wrongly flagged, don’t get me wrong, he got lucky, but it’s far far more likely that he was sure it was off, rather than the other way round. 

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Maybe the yellow card for JWP. It was quite clearly our throw, Targett took it quickly before the lino had even flagged, JWP rightly tried to stop it because it quite blatantly came off Targett and should have been our throw. And he gets a yellow for it. Ridiculous.

Thinking about it, there was also that crazy offside decision, where no one was actually offside - not long before Villas goal.

All in all, tonight was an officials cluster fuck.

[Teddeer]

2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Thinking about it, there was also that crazy offside decision, where no one was actually offside - not long before Villas goal.

All in all, tonight was an officials cluster fuck.

Yes and if that is not given Villa don't score through Barkley due to the butterfly affect.

[Tamesaint]

All I can say is

FUCK, FUCKITY, FUCK

 

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Thinking about it, there was also that crazy offside decision, where no one was actually offside - not long before Villas goal.

All in all, tonight was an officials cluster fuck.

Armstrong From an onside position passed the ball backwards to Walcott, who was given offside.

then there was the free kick given against Ings when two villa players bumped into each other inside their own area. 
 

it was a shockingly incompetent performance 

[Bandy Golac]

I've been watching Saints since the 70s and this is the most wound up I have ever got about a game, and that includes many many bad experiences, and even beats the semi final against Everton in 1984. Saints played ok today and were only beaten by ineptitude by the referee, who seemed incapable of making the correct decision, and a linesman who ignored directives and was putting his flag up at every opportunity, backed up by a not fit for purpose VAR system. Everyone knows that the linesman are told to keep their flag down and let play continue. If he had followed directives and kept his flag down for the Ings goal then it would never have been disallowed. As for the handball, before VAR that would have been a penalty 10 out of 10 times, he has basically saved the ball from going in the net.  How more blatant can it be? The referee is a good position and can clearly see that, he shouldn't need VAR. I don't know about you, but when I saw it on replay I thought ' Well that's a stonewall, who is going to take the pen?', I was incredulous when it wasn't given. Of course, I am unhappy because Saints lost, but I think my anger is more about the way that football is being ruined by this ridiculous Big Brother management of the game. You know who should be ashamed? All of those who were foaming at the mouth for VAR a couple of years ago, when every proper football supporter knew that the game, although flawed, was still close to beautiful. At least then you could celebrate a goal unconditionally. Remember that? As long as the linesman flag stayed down, then it was time to go mental and jump around with the bloke next to you. I yearn for that again to be honest. 

Anyway, feel better now I've got that off my chest. Congratulations to Villa and I'm sure we'll beat Man U on Tuesday without needing any help from VAR.